Christopherwoo From United Kingdom, joined Oct 2006, 151 posts, RR: 0 Posted (6 years 4 months 6 days 11 hours ago) and read 3915 times:
Does anyone know why no airlines fly London gatwick to Paris?? I was just looking on expedia and the only flights you can get from gatwick change at places like manchester etc! crazy!
B747-437B From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR: Reply 1, posted (6 years 4 months 6 days 11 hours ago) and read 3907 times:
Daallo Airlines of Djibouti flies LGW-CDG-JIB on Wednesday evenings using a leased Astraeus 757, but they don't have traffic rights. You can nonrev on the flight though if you know somebody at either D3 or AEU. You might need to wake up immigration at CDG to let you out on arrival however!
EI787 From Ireland, joined Jan 2006, 1513 posts, RR: 26 Reply 2, posted (6 years 4 months 6 days 11 hours ago) and read 3907 times:
Well I think that with so many flights to Paris from other London airports, as well as the Eurostar service, there isn't enough demand for flights from LGW as well.
Srbmod From United States of America, joined Mar 2001, 16888 posts, RR: 51 Reply 3, posted (6 years 4 months 6 days 11 hours ago) and read 3885 times:
Heathrow is the European gateway airport for London. Gatwick is used mainly by airlines that don't have LHR access rights or for flights from US cities that aren't covered under the Bermuda II treaty (Examples, ATL-LGW, CLT-LGW) and by some charter airlines.
Christopherwoo From United Kingdom, joined Oct 2006, 151 posts, RR: 0 Reply 4, posted (6 years 4 months 6 days 11 hours ago) and read 3885 times:
well see thats the thing. Gatwick is quite a way out of london. For those people who live South East of london Gatwick would be a great place to have a CDG route. I can't believe easyJet haven't done it already!
BCAL From United Kingdom, joined Jun 2004, 3384 posts, RR: 18 Reply 5, posted (6 years 4 months 6 days 11 hours ago) and read 3864 times:
I have just posted a reply in the thread bmi pulls out from Paris.
In a nutshell I think that Eurostar has eroded the demand for air travel between London and Paris. Assuming that you are travelling from the centre of London to the centre of Paris, why take the plane and have the hassles of
Spending 40 minutes travelling from town to the airport
Being held up in security queues etc for no less than an hour
Waiting up to 30 minutes for luggage reclaim and
30 minutes journey from CDG to the centre of Paris
Eurostar would be quicker and takes you to the heart of Paris.
BA pulled out from the LGW-CDG route last summer (or was it the previous summer?) and nobody, not even U2 or flyBe, stepped in to fill the void left by BA's withdrawal. If there was a demand for a service between LGW-CDG, someone would surely have stepped in by now. A West African airline (cannot remember off hand who) does fly weekly from LGW to Africa via CDG, but they do not have local traffic rights.
BD has now pulled out from LHR-CDG and the service offered by BA/AF is only a fraction of what they offered in the pre Eurostar days. Both BA and AF probably only continue the route as feeders for their long-haul services from LHR and CDG, and although LGW does offer more US destinations than LHR, obviously these services do not pick up much feed from pax starting their journey at CDG (probably because there are direct services to most of these US destinations from CDG).
It is also strange that the only service from London to ORY is AF's service from LCY.
MOL on SRB's latest attack at BA: "It's like a little Chihuahua barking at a dying Labrador. Nobody cares."
BA787 From United Kingdom, joined Jun 2006, 2596 posts, RR: 8 Reply 6, posted (6 years 4 months 6 days 11 hours ago) and read 3864 times:
Quoting Srbmod (Reply 3): Heathrow is the European gateway airport for London. Gatwick is used mainly by airlines that don't have LHR access rights or for flights from US cities that aren't covered under the Bermuda II treaty (Examples, ATL-LGW, CLT-LGW) and by some charter airlines.
It was BA’s murder of, sorry merger with British Caledonian that led to a second base being established at LGW. Prior to that BA only operated from LGW scheduled services to the Channel Islands and in the late 1970s they were forced by the UK Government to transfer their Iberian services from LHR to LGW (IB and TAP were also forced to follow but this led to a “revolt” by the Spanish and Portuguese Governments that saw a temporary ban of all UK airlines from landing at their main airports so there was a U-turn).
The main reason why BA wanted to gain a foothold at LGW was to prevent other independent UK airlines, and possibly also foreign airlines (since SAS then entered the bidding), from taking over some of BCal’s routes on which they were the sole UK designated carrier. These included services to Dallas-Fort Worth, Atlanta, Riyadh, Jeddah, most West African and South American destinations to name a few. LHR was also slot restricted and the only large expansion that BA could see at that time was to develop a hub at LGW.
The geographical location of LHR and LGW as well as the number of people living with each airport’s catchment area accounts for a reported difference of a 10% lower load factor at LGW than LHR, and scheduled services generate a 20% lower revenue and results in up to a 25% lower yield at LGW compared to LHR.
In the years after the merger BA moved all West African and South American services to LHR. Services to the mid US had to remain at LGW under Bermuda II but if they could, and the slots were available, BA would also move these to LHR quicker than you could blink.
BA had to offer connections for their long-hauls at LGW and this is why they operate services to many European and some domestic destinations from LGW. It had been estimated by BA’s forerunners at LGW that their short-haul domestic feeder flights generated additional long-haul revenues of GBP 5 million per annum and that the European feeder services added GBP 20 million to their long-haul services.
Because of the limited slot availability and congestion at LHR, BA transferred some of their lower yielding long-hauls to LGW, with the result that apart from services restricted under Bermuda II most of BA’s long-hauls at LGW are more leisure-orientated, attracting less premium passengers. Indeed, at one time some of these services were operated by other airlines (e.g. Flying Colours) for BA.
MOL on SRB's latest attack at BA: "It's like a little Chihuahua barking at a dying Labrador. Nobody cares."
Humberside From United Kingdom, joined Dec 2005, 4901 posts, RR: 5 Reply 12, posted (6 years 4 months 6 days 9 hours ago) and read 3645 times:
Quoting BCAL (Reply 5): It is also strange that the only service from London to ORY is AF's service from LCY.
I think its because ORY is closer to Paris city centre than CDG - better for business pax. Connecting traffic can be handled on AF's remaining once daily LCY-CDG
Carduelis From United Kingdom, joined Dec 2001, 1585 posts, RR: 11 Reply 13, posted (6 years 4 months 6 days 9 hours ago) and read 3622 times:
Quite simply:
Why go to Victoria rail station to check-in for a LGWPAR service, when you can easily go to Waterloo rail station and check-in for a direct PAR Gare du Nord train service. You will be there, in the centre of Paris, by the time it takes to go out to LGW or LHR, go through airport security, etc.
MainMAN From United Kingdom, joined Jul 2005, 2064 posts, RR: 6 Reply 14, posted (6 years 4 months 6 days 9 hours ago) and read 3622 times:
Quoting Srbmod (Reply 3): Heathrow is the European gateway airport for London. Gatwick is used mainly by airlines that don't have LHR access rights or for flights from US cities that aren't covered under the Bermuda II treaty (Examples, ATL-LGW, CLT-LGW) and by some charter airlines.
Of course it's debatable, but LGW is a different market for European services than LHR. A bit like comparing LAX and Burbank or Ontario, if you like.
I didn't know there were no longer direct LGW-CDG services, so I assume that the option of driving to Ashford station in Kent and catching a train or travelling from London Waterloo or Heathrow, has rendered flights non-viable. I'm surprised by that.
Quoting IAHFLYER (Reply 10): In June of 2000 I flew on BA to CDG from LGW, is that service no longer provided?
Apparently not, according to BA's website.
Quoting BCAL (Reply 9): It was BA’s murder of, sorry merger with British Caledonian that led to a second base being established at LGW.
Cheers for the info you've provided there. I remember the furore about TP and IB moving services to LGW (or not).
Bwaflyer From United Kingdom, joined Jun 2004, 675 posts, RR: 0 Reply 17, posted (6 years 4 months 6 days 4 hours ago) and read 3378 times:
Quoting BCAL (Reply 16): The airline is Daallo and the flight is to Djibouti that operates twice weekly on Weds and Sun via CDG.
According to their website (beware of pop-ups if you visit it), bookings are accepted for the LGW-CDG leg.
Flight is operated by Astraeus on 757 equipment. Flight D3 100 / D3 101 operates on Wednesdays only, arriving back in the UK on Friday. The additional Sunday flight is a summer seasonal service.
B747-437B From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR: Reply 18, posted (6 years 4 months 6 days 4 hours ago) and read 3354 times:
Quoting BCAL (Reply 16): According to their website (beware of pop-ups if you visit it), bookings are accepted for the LGW-CDG leg.
D3 have no local traffic rights LGW-CDG. I've nonrevved on this most recently 4 weeks ago and the only people getting off at Paris were myself, the pilots and the captain's girlfriend. I was leaving as a pax the next day so I had to get my non-EU passport stamped and hence had to find an immigration officer, otherwise we could have walked through the entire arrivals area without seeing a living soul.
Goldorak From France, joined Sep 2006, 1673 posts, RR: 3 Reply 19, posted (6 years 4 months 5 days 15 hours ago) and read 3177 times:
Quoting Humberside (Reply 12): I think its because ORY is closer to Paris city centre than CDG - better for business pax
It's one of the reason to have choosen ORY for these flights. The other one was very short taxi time at ORY (and almost never any wait before take off) compared to CDG. So as a whole, shorter flights from/to airports close to the city (ORY) or inside the city (LCY) to attract more business customers
MAS777 From United Kingdom, joined Jul 1999, 2916 posts, RR: 6 Reply 20, posted (6 years 4 months 5 days 5 hours ago) and read 3014 times:
Quoting Christopherwoo (Reply 4): well see thats the thing. Gatwick is quite a way out of london. For those people who live South East of london Gatwick would be a great place to have a CDG route. I can't believe easyJet haven't done it already!
You're quite right. I used to use this route almost monthly as it was SO convenient. Have hardly been back to Paris since the discontinuation - since LHR is just the wrong way for anyone living in Kent and Sussex.
I am still surprised BA pulled the plug - as it was often v busy with lots of passengers on Trans-atlantic connections... but hey.. I now use Eurostar...
Cambrian From United Kingdom, joined Sep 2003, 617 posts, RR: 5 Reply 21, posted (6 years 4 months 4 days 18 hours ago) and read 2843 times:
I think that there is a demand from LGW to Paris, even for just a handful of flights to serve as onward connections from long haul services. Friends of mine regularly travel from Barbados to Paris via LGW and they have to travel on to Heathrow.
This is such a pain that they have now defected to AF via Martinique and Guadeloupe.
BCAL From United Kingdom, joined Jun 2004, 3384 posts, RR: 18 Reply 22, posted (6 years 4 months 4 days 18 hours ago) and read 2835 times:
Quoting Cambrian (Reply 21): I think that there is a demand from LGW to Paris
I would love to be able to fly from LGW-CDG, as it is both a long and slow trip to LHR from the Sussex Coast and, unless you have a car, Ashford International and the Eurostar are not accessible. However, there cannot be sufficient demand if AF and then BA dropped their services, and no other airline stepped in. I would have thought that flyBe, or U2, would have started a LGW-CDG service, since both already serve CDG from other UK airports and have a significant presence at LGW.
MOL on SRB's latest attack at BA: "It's like a little Chihuahua barking at a dying Labrador. Nobody cares."
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