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NZ Pilot In Trouble Over Diversion For Ice Burg  
User currently offline777ER From New Zealand, joined Dec 2003, 12340 posts, RR: 18
Posted (7 years 11 months 6 days 1 hour ago) and read 16109 times:
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An NZ B733 pilot flying a domestic flight from DUD-AKL has been stood down, but no action is being taken against the pilot. The Pilot said he did the diversion just to give the passengers a look at the ice burgs that were floating north from Antarctica during November. The flight was 10 minutes late in AKL, which resulted in several 15 minute delays that day.

http://www.stuff.co.nz/3935292a11.html

62 replies: All unread, showing first 25:
 
User currently offlineZkpilot From New Zealand, joined Mar 2006, 4865 posts, RR: 10
Reply 1, posted (7 years 11 months 6 days ago) and read 16032 times:

Well at least he was honest about it... the smart thing to do would have been to say that there were several small delays along the way including worse winds than forecast all adding up to 10min delay  Wink
10 mins does sound a lot however... he must have really made a dogleg there to show that!



56 types. 38 countries. 24 airlines.
User currently offlineAsstChiefMark From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 2, posted (7 years 11 months 6 days ago) and read 16020 times:

Must have been a pretty tall iceberg.

Mark


User currently offline777ER From New Zealand, joined Dec 2003, 12340 posts, RR: 18
Reply 3, posted (7 years 11 months 6 days ago) and read 15943 times:
AIRLINERS.NET CREW
FORUM MODERATOR

Quoting AsstChiefMark (Reply 2):
Must have been a pretty tall iceberg.

Some Ice bergs were upto and over 1 kilometre long (thats about 0.8 miles)


User currently offlineLaxintl From United States of America, joined May 2000, 26150 posts, RR: 50
Reply 4, posted (7 years 11 months 5 days 23 hours ago) and read 15806 times:

Reminds me of a US pilot a few year back that decided to do 360 loop above the Grand Canyon on an extremely clear day while on a transcon headed into LA.

I understand the company suspended the pilots for wasting company funds (fuel), however the union as expected managed to bargain for his return.



From the desert to the sea, to all of Southern California
User currently offlineAerospaceFan From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 5, posted (7 years 11 months 5 days 23 hours ago) and read 15772 times:

Quoting Laxintl (Reply 4):
Reminds me of a US pilot a few year back that decided to do 360 loop above the Grand Canyon on an extremely clear day while on a transcon headed into LA.

Surely not a vertical loop above the Grand Canyon?


User currently offlineMariner From New Zealand, joined Nov 2001, 25693 posts, RR: 85
Reply 6, posted (7 years 11 months 5 days 22 hours ago) and read 15746 times:
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Once again, Air New Zealand management shows they have little sense of fun in their customer service.

Still, what can you expect from a management that approved those new uniforms?

 Smile

mariner



aeternum nauta
User currently offlineNzrich From New Zealand, joined Dec 2005, 1524 posts, RR: 1
Reply 7, posted (7 years 11 months 5 days 22 hours ago) and read 15668 times:

Quoting Mariner (Reply 6):
Once again, Air New Zealand management shows they have little sense of fun in their customer service.

Yes but unfortunately those little detours cost money ie fuel .. Also that detour delayed other flights inconveniencing other passengers also .. Yes it was lovely for those passengers to get the detour but unfortunately the passengers on the delayed passengers i bet would not be happy with that captain for delaying their flights later on in the day..



"Pride of the pacific"
User currently offlineFlyibaby From United States of America, joined Aug 2004, 1017 posts, RR: 6
Reply 8, posted (7 years 11 months 5 days 22 hours ago) and read 15626 times:

I know pilots that reguarly give passengers a birds eye view of Niagra Falls. It probably takes about 10 minutes all-together after departing BUF but after all, airlines pad the schedules with extra time, and if management wants to bitch about the extra costs, perhaps they should do away with their bonues like AA mgmt got last week.

User currently offlineNzrich From New Zealand, joined Dec 2005, 1524 posts, RR: 1
Reply 9, posted (7 years 11 months 5 days 22 hours ago) and read 15601 times:

Quoting Flyibaby (Reply 8):
I know pilots that reguarly give passengers a birds eye view of Niagra Falls. It probably takes about 10 minutes all-together after departing BUF but after all, airlines pad the schedules with extra time, and if management wants to bitch about the extra costs, perhaps they should do away with their bonues like AA mgmt got last week.

Well its interesting you make the comment about padding the schedules ..I can say with a lot of certainly that NZ does not .. When delays happen it causes rolling delays .. The NZ domestic fleet is always on the move with most of the jets only having 30 min turn around times.. So there is not much padding in the schedules..



"Pride of the pacific"
User currently offlineMariner From New Zealand, joined Nov 2001, 25693 posts, RR: 85
Reply 10, posted (7 years 11 months 5 days 22 hours ago) and read 15594 times:
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Quoting Nzrich (Reply 7):
i bet would not be happy with that captain for delaying their flights later on in the day..

It happened once. Tell the captain he was a naughty boy, tell other pilots not to do it, and know that you had a plane full of happy pax.

For those who were delayed on other flights - the delays were, the article says, 15 minutes. Delays like that happen frequently. So tell those pax why it happened - and stand by for plane loads of pax wanting to see the icebergs. I would have.

There's more to life than just getting there - who goes to Italy for punctuality?

As to the cost of it - what did those new uniforms cost? And how long will they be with us?

 Smile

mariner



aeternum nauta
User currently offlineFlyibaby From United States of America, joined Aug 2004, 1017 posts, RR: 6
Reply 11, posted (7 years 11 months 5 days 22 hours ago) and read 15588 times:

Quoting Nzrich (Reply 9):
Well its interesting you make the comment about padding the schedules ..I can say with a lot of certainly that NZ does not .. When delays happen it causes rolling delays .. The NZ domestic fleet is always on the move with most of the jets only having 30 min turn around times.. So there is not much padding in the schedules..

Gotcha, yeah I guess mostly US airliners are padded since the US DOT publishes the montly on-time statistics....Most carriers are trying to utilize their a/c more, but still around a 45min scheduled turn.


User currently offlineKohflot From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 12, posted (7 years 11 months 5 days 22 hours ago) and read 15581 times:

Slightly related..

Do QF pilots routinely fly around Uluru for a good look, or was my flight the only one?


User currently offlineWestJetYQQ From Canada, joined Jan 2007, 2987 posts, RR: 5
Reply 13, posted (7 years 11 months 5 days 21 hours ago) and read 15547 times:

If I was airline management I would like it as it might increase passenger satisfaction, and possibly create some more ticket sales.

My $0.02 (CDN)



Will You Try to Change Things? Use the Power that you have, the Power of a Million new Ideas.
User currently offlineNzrich From New Zealand, joined Dec 2005, 1524 posts, RR: 1
Reply 14, posted (7 years 11 months 5 days 21 hours ago) and read 15465 times:

Quoting Mariner (Reply 10):
It happened once. Tell the captain he was a naughty boy, tell other pilots not to do it, and know that you had a plane full of happy pax.

For those who were delayed on other flights - the delays were, the article says, 15 minutes. Delays like that happen frequently. So tell those pax why it happened - and stand by for plane loads of pax wanting to see the icebergs. I would have.

There's more to life than just getting there - who goes to Italy for punctuality?

As to the cost of it - what did those new uniforms cost? And how long will they be with us?

ok the uniforms and a captain wasting company funds are 2 seperate issues .. The company can spend its $$ on what it likes the captain cant he has a flight plan to follow !!

As for the Italy comment hmmm whats that got to do with anything.. Air NZ is going all out for on time performance and cost cutting ..All Air NZ flight and ground staff know this , so the captain would of know he may get into a little trouble for doing this ..



"Pride of the pacific"
User currently offlineAxio From New Zealand, joined Jul 2006, 317 posts, RR: 0
Reply 15, posted (7 years 11 months 5 days 20 hours ago) and read 15406 times:

Quoting Mariner (Reply 10):
and know that you had a plane full of happy pax.

Intangible value.

Since Fyfe took over I've felt that AirNZ is all about things they can measure and ignores the things they can't. The potential outsourcing of engineers and terminal services illustrates this to some degree.

Certainly it 'cost' AirNZ to add an extra 10 minutes to one flight - but those passengers will be talking AirNZ up, and far more likely to fly them in the future (on those routes where there is actually competition....)  Smile

Of course it's impossible to place financial value on this detour and we'll never know if the diversion was 'worth it'...


And they were big icebergs. Up to a kilometer across, and some several hundred meters high.

ax



Time for a new viewing deck at AKL!
User currently offlineMariner From New Zealand, joined Nov 2001, 25693 posts, RR: 85
Reply 16, posted (7 years 11 months 5 days 20 hours ago) and read 15392 times:
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Quoting Nzrich (Reply 14):
As for the Italy comment hmmm whats that got to do with anything.

Substitute "Polynesia" for "Italy" and you may get a clue.

Or go to my original statement. That how a company deals with "exceptions" - that may be for the benefit of some customers - is indicative of its attitude to the customer in general.

It was a once in a llfetime - so far - event. The captain should not have done it, but keep it in proportion. Tell him off, laugh about it and then let it go.

Quoting Nzrich (Reply 14):
ok the uniforms and a captain wasting company funds are 2 seperate issues

I disagree. The company wastes a fortune on uniforms that make the majority of iits female staff look like heifers in tight sacks. The cost cutting is largely coming from the workers.

It is indicative of an attitude. Of a sense of priorties.

mariner



aeternum nauta
User currently offlineA320ajm From United Kingdom, joined May 2006, 547 posts, RR: 0
Reply 17, posted (7 years 11 months 5 days 18 hours ago) and read 15213 times:

I don't see how they can get rid of him easily because it wasn't like he endangered passangers lives.


If the British Empire and its Commonwealth last for a thousand years, men will still say, 'This was their finest hour.'
User currently offlineNicogagne From France, joined Feb 2003, 76 posts, RR: 0
Reply 18, posted (7 years 11 months 5 days 18 hours ago) and read 15191 times:

Two years ago, I was onboard a Singapore Airlines flight from CHC to SIN and after takle-off the pilot flew quite low for about 30 minutes so that we could enjoy the view of the snow-covered Southern Alps, the lakes and some fjords. After that the pilot said "I hope you enjoyed the view, that was a small present from Singapore Airlines". And then we rocketed into the sky!

Despite the "low-flying ride", we arrived 30 minutes ahead of the scheduled arrival time.I guess that the pilot knew that he would be having strong tail winds on the way to SIN, that's why he could give his passengers some time to enjoy the view of NZ's South Island.

Anyway, it's was worth it! What a view!

Nico


User currently offlineRaventom From United Kingdom, joined Apr 2006, 269 posts, RR: 0
Reply 19, posted (7 years 11 months 5 days 18 hours ago) and read 15134 times:

15 minutes isn't that long of a delay...


I love the smell of burnt kerosene!!!!!!!!!!!!
User currently offlineDeltaGuy From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 20, posted (7 years 11 months 5 days 18 hours ago) and read 15129 times:

Quoting Flyibaby (Reply 8):
perhaps they should do away with their bonues like AA mgmt got last week.

No kidding...they're awfly stingy with money considering what they make.

DeltaGuy


User currently offlineLHStarAlliance From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 21, posted (7 years 11 months 5 days 18 hours ago) and read 15086 times:

LH Pilots often fly around the Cape , before Landing at Cape Town , the management prohibited this , but most of them don´t care...

User currently offlineCurmudgeon From Australia, joined Oct 2006, 695 posts, RR: 22
Reply 22, posted (7 years 11 months 5 days 17 hours ago) and read 15053 times:

Quoting Kohflot (Reply 12):
Do QF pilots routinely fly around Uluru for a good look, or was my flight the only one?

No. Not officially, at any rate. The company requires management approval for any "sight seeing" diversions. Given the gyrations over a few litres of fuel savings that I see performed every day, I'd wager the answer would be "no".
("Don't ask/Don't tell turns out to have applications beyond gays in the military)  Wink



Jets are for kids
User currently offlineTG992 From New Zealand, joined Jan 2001, 2910 posts, RR: 10
Reply 23, posted (7 years 11 months 5 days 17 hours ago) and read 15041 times:

Quoting Mariner (Reply 16):
It was a once in a llfetime - so far - event. The captain should not have done it, but keep it in proportion. Tell him off, laugh about it and then let it go.

"We discussed with the pilot the consequences of his actions, however no disciplinary action was taken," an Air New Zealand spokeswoman said.

Isn't that pretty much exactly what they did?

That being said, it was all very nice for the passengers on the flight and no doubt good PR, but I really don't think 'surprising and delighting' one planeload of passengers while delaying several subsequent planeloads of passengers, many of whom were no doubt flying to important meetings, family emergencies, etc. There's always the chance someone is rushing to a critically ill relative who may die at any minute. Imagine if you were on one of the delayed flights and arrived 2 minutes after your ill father passes away!
Sorry to put a downer on things, but it's difficult enough to adhere to schedules without avoidable delays like this one.

Quoting Mariner (Reply 16):
I disagree. The company wastes a fortune on uniforms that make the majority of iits female staff look like heifers in tight sacks.

I don't agree with you and neither do many others. It's purely a matter of taste but I know of a couple of our female crew who read this website, and I regret your choice of language to express your distaste. I'm sorry you don't like the uniform - I rather do. Opinion amongst the public is mixed, as it is with pretty much any uniform (including our old one - I'll always remember one description of it as 'bad taste layered on bad taste').

[Edited 2007-01-21 12:44:05]


-
User currently offlineCurmudgeon From Australia, joined Oct 2006, 695 posts, RR: 22
Reply 24, posted (7 years 11 months 5 days 17 hours ago) and read 14992 times:

Quoting TG992 (Reply 23):
Imagine if you were on one of the delayed flights and arrived 2 minutes after your ill father passes away!

Man. With a little effort you could have tried for some genuine hyperbole. As an aside, if they know you are coming they generally don't die until right after you get there, even from around the world. Go ahead and ask me how I know this.



Jets are for kids
25 BA787 : If it pleased the passengers then NZ shouldnt be so strict. Like someone said, pleased passnegers = passengers who will fly again
26 Eoinnz : Yeah but it also created several plane loads of unpleased passengers unpleased passengers = passengers who won't fly again Even though it was a small
27 LTBEWR : I would assume that as a lot less mainline airline traffic in flight or at airports in NZ versus other regions of the world, that NZ may not allocate
28 CosmicCruiser : That's probably what happened. This is why you're not airline mgt. No offense but when you have a large pilot force, we have almost 5000, mgt must an
29 Awthompson : AMERICAN TRANS AIR CAPTAIN MAKES FLYPAST OVER NORTHERN IRELAND Some years ago (early nineties), an American Trans Air Boeing 757 Captain departing fro
30 Post contains images Fridgmus : OK Curmudgeon, I'll bite. How do you know this? Marc
31 Airfinair : This sounds more like an urban myth, as I've been on two seperate flights ORD-LAX where the pilot did figure 8's over the Grand Canyon for passenger
32 Post contains images ABQopsHP : Diverting for iceburgs. Does this bring new meaning to the term "flow control"?
33 Post contains images Litz : I was on a DL FAT->ATL flight a couple years back that did the same exact thing ... we had some crazy tailwinds forcast and would have been so early
34 MaidensGator : On December 17, 1978, I flew MCO-BWI on an Eastern Airlines 727. I remember the date because the pilot came on and told us that in honor of the 75th a
35 Nickofatlanta : Years ago, I was on a DL flight from PDX to SLC and the pilot did a very low flyover and turn over Mt. Hood - to the point that you see the people on
36 Mariner : Regret it all you wish, but I could have put it in quotes. It is an exact phrase used to me by a female staff member, a woman with some Maori or Poly
37 Boeing744 : I remember reading a trip report a while back about a scheduled Tyrolean flight VIE-ZRH (or v.v.) that turned into a "sightseeing flight" for the pass
38 Airplanenut : 10+ years ago, I flew United from EWR-LAX and our captain did a 360 in both directions so everyone could see the Rockies. We left EWR late, but, even
39 Morvious : I would choose that airline again the next time if the pilot did this kind of things. Not the default route from A to B but a little sight seeing. But
40 TrojanAE : Man if I was a passeneger and we descended to 2000Ft (less than 500m!!!!) 50 miles after take off I'd be praying and screaming bloody murder. I mean
41 Luvflng : I would not blame the managemnt. The airline operates on tight turns and a 10 min delay may mean misconnects or delayed down-line flights which trans
42 Manu : I was in NZ during November and was amazed by the publicity the bergs got. Front page in the papers! If ANZ was smart they would have diverted all fli
43 ZKSUJ : Agree with you both and as mentioned above The schedules are tight. But this case brings to mind other instances. Example, The are quite a few occasi
44 Awthompson : I believe that the pilot announced on this occasion what they were going to do and the passengers loved it!
45 Noelg : I have been on an NZ flight from NSN-AKL in a SAAB 340 where the pilot took us on a sightseeing diversion. We took off from NSN and the pilot flew us
46 Post contains images Airfoilsguy : What does "stood down" mean? Please forgive my ignorance for I am a "yank"
47 777ER : Stood down means suspended from flying/duties pending further investagation
48 AS907 : I heard that FAI has a DP that circles around Mt. McKinley... haven't checked it out for myself though. Everytime I fly from ANC to FAI and back on AS
49 Nzrich : Yes this is true and the patient was critically ill also .. Also this diversion was approved by management so it is majorly different .. If someone i
50 WorldTraveler : I was on a DL extra section flight from ATL to Los Angeles on an L1011 and the capt. did a low altitude fly by over Atlanta and then a low altitude p
51 OMA2FAI2SAV : Indeed. AS flies areound the mountain on most flights. I fly ANC-FAI around 10 times a year, and recieve the circle every time. I love it.
52 Baroque : These days Uluru barely exists as far as QF are concerned so if that was recent, you were lucky. Time was when they used to make sure you could see U
53 Post contains images Zkpilot : I just noticed how many views this thread has!! I guess people are thinking why would a plane have to divert for an iceberg? they aren't the Titanic a
54 Brons2 : Personally, when I saw the thread title, I wondered if he was piloting the Titanic, in which case, diverting from the iceburgs might be a good idea.
55 Pilotdude09 : I think its a great thing the pilots done this, as other companys were charging over $500 dollars for a once in a life time trip so it gave everyone a
56 Nzrich : Im sure if a NZ pilot was stood down it would not be over one small incident.. As the article said "We discussed with the pilot the consequences of h
57 Mariner : The article also says: "An Air New Zealand pilot was stood down and investigated..." ??? mariner
58 Gasman : There is at least a theoretical safety issue to this also. Diverting from pre determined flightplan to pursue another agenda - ie. sightseeing - adds
59 ZKSUJ : As people can see, it is quite confusing. So what actually happened?
60 EK413 : So... Did any one on the diverted flight take a photo of the icebergs to make it all worth it! EK413
61 Nzrich : Ops sorry meant he is not stood down now !! But he did get spoken to..
62 Post contains links Pilotdude09 : From: http://www.ch9.co.nz/index.php?optio...ontent&task=view&id=3623&Itemid=34
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