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DL Shifts DFW-LGA To DFW-JFK  
User currently offlineFlyPNS1 From United States of America, joined Nov 1999, 6608 posts, RR: 24
Posted (7 years 7 months 4 weeks 1 hour ago) and read 4644 times:

Beginning April 17th, DL will shift its 3x daily DFW-LGA to DFW-JFK. All flights will continue to use the E170.

I think this move makes sense. DFW-JFK allows for a large number of connections (both domestic and int'l) at the JFK hub. DL was struggling to compete on the DFW-LGA route which relied mostly on O+D traffic against AA which had far better frequency.

27 replies: All unread, showing first 25:
 
User currently offlineCommavia From United States of America, joined Apr 2005, 11600 posts, RR: 61
Reply 1, posted (7 years 7 months 4 weeks 1 hour ago) and read 4638 times:

My personal prediction: the new DFW-JFK route goes down to only a single 1x daily ERJ170 within a year timed for an afternoon DFW eastbound departure and evening JFK arrival and an evening JFK westbound departure and night DFW arrival, both timed for Europe connections.

User currently onlineLAXdude1023 From India, joined Sep 2006, 7598 posts, RR: 24
Reply 2, posted (7 years 7 months 4 weeks 1 hour ago) and read 4614 times:

Frankly, this is the right decision. This way the flights can be times for European connections rather than service for the O&D traffic that AA already covers tenfold.


Stewed...Lewd...Crude...Irreverent...Belligerent
User currently offlineCXA330300 From South Africa, joined May 2004, 1562 posts, RR: 2
Reply 3, posted (7 years 7 months 4 weeks 1 hour ago) and read 4565 times:

I imagine this might be the first of several LGA routes to be moved.....


The sky is the limit as long as you can stay there
User currently offlineSESGDL From United States of America, joined Jan 2001, 3483 posts, RR: 10
Reply 4, posted (7 years 7 months 4 weeks ago) and read 4435 times:

Quoting CXA330300 (Reply 3):
I imagine this might be the first of several LGA routes to be moved.....

Well DL already announced that LGA-ORD will be switched to LGA-MDW while JFK-ORD will be upped to 7x daily (perhaps 5x?). LGA-DFW never made much sense anyway and many wondered why DL had not restarted JFK-DFW service. LGA-MIA has been very successful due to DL's large presence in both cities. The route switched between MD-88s and ERJ-170s depending on time of year, JFK-MIA has also been upgraded to an MD-88. Other than that DL has been running the same LGA routes for basically the last few years so those should remain intact.

Jeremy


User currently offlineN839MH From United States of America, joined Mar 2001, 371 posts, RR: 0
Reply 5, posted (7 years 7 months 4 weeks ago) and read 4424 times:

FLYPNS1...very interesting you're advertising "internal" information which is not supposed to be public knowledge till next week...be careful!


Solodude!
User currently offlineMSYtristar From United States of America, joined Aug 2005, 6570 posts, RR: 50
Reply 6, posted (7 years 7 months 4 weeks ago) and read 4394 times:

MSY-LGA has been running with the CR7 and has been doing very well....although I wouldn't mind seeing them switch it to JFK due to the Europeean connections, I don't think they'll move it...if anything, I'd like to see them run both LGA and JFK from here.

User currently offlineBelizexp From Belize, joined Dec 2005, 373 posts, RR: 0
Reply 7, posted (7 years 7 months 4 weeks ago) and read 4357 times:

It good to see DL JFK-DFW back now let see if IAH will be back too (I know CO doing well with the JFK service to IAH)


Belize my home sweet home...
User currently offlineDAL767400ER From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 8, posted (7 years 7 months 4 weeks ago) and read 4297 times:

Quoting N839MH (Reply 5):
FLYPNS1...very interesting you're advertising "internal" information which is not supposed to be public knowledge till next week...be careful!

You mean "internal" information that was posted on Flyertalk a good 90 minutes before FlyPNS1 posted it on here and which everyone can look up on delta.com? Sure a weird definition of "internal"...


User currently offlinePVD757 From United States of America, joined Aug 2003, 3413 posts, RR: 16
Reply 9, posted (7 years 7 months 3 weeks 6 days 23 hours ago) and read 4164 times:

indeed, the new schedule is loaded into the delta website...

User currently offlineMAH4546 From Sweden, joined Jan 2001, 32776 posts, RR: 72
Reply 10, posted (7 years 7 months 3 weeks 6 days 22 hours ago) and read 4055 times:

Quoting SESGDL (Reply 4):
The route switched between MD-88s and ERJ-170s depending on time of year,

The route is an MD88 year-round. This past fall, due to aircraft shortages, it ran as E170s for a short time.



a.
User currently offlineWorldTraveler From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 11, posted (7 years 7 months 3 weeks 6 days 15 hours ago) and read 3717 times:

it is also pretty likely that DL will be offering more early morning international arrivals from JFK by this winter so that there are multiple international connecting banks possible.

I'm not quite sure how DL is using the slots at LGA that are freed up by this action... any idea?


User currently offlineAS739X From United States of America, joined Apr 2003, 6138 posts, RR: 23
Reply 12, posted (7 years 7 months 3 weeks 6 days 14 hours ago) and read 3689 times:

Information is also already in Sabre.

ASLAX



"Some pilots avoid storm cells and some play connect the dots!"
User currently offlineBigGSFO From United States of America, joined Jun 2005, 2924 posts, RR: 6
Reply 13, posted (7 years 7 months 3 weeks 6 days 14 hours ago) and read 3620 times:

Quoting SESGDL (Reply 4):
LGA-DFW never made much sense anyway and many wondered why DL had not restarted JFK-DFW service.

Actually DFW-LGA made a lot of sense to me so I am a little surprised that they are completely leaving this market. I would think given DL's supposed loyal base in both Dallas and New York City could have made these flights work. DFW-JFK is a natural - and I am actually surprised this hasn't been offered by DL already.


User currently offlineCommavia From United States of America, joined Apr 2005, 11600 posts, RR: 61
Reply 14, posted (7 years 7 months 3 weeks 6 days 14 hours ago) and read 3587 times:

Quoting BigGSFO (Reply 13):
I would think given DL's supposed loyal base in both Dallas and New York City could have made these flights work.

Delta doesn't really have much of a "loyal base" in the Metroplex left to speak of, at least not in my experience. There are still a few holdouts who conduct most of their business in Georgia, or don't mind connecting to go everywhere. But by and large, all of the former high-value Delta FFs in the Dallas/Fort Worth area gave up long ago when they started having to take 70-seat RJs to placed like Washington, DC.


User currently offlineAlitalia744 From United States of America, joined Mar 2000, 4748 posts, RR: 44
Reply 15, posted (7 years 7 months 3 weeks 6 days 14 hours ago) and read 3579 times:

look for more routes from JFK in the near future...


Some see lines, others see between the lines.
User currently offlinePVD757 From United States of America, joined Aug 2003, 3413 posts, RR: 16
Reply 16, posted (7 years 7 months 3 weeks 6 days 3 hours ago) and read 3383 times:

Quoting Alitalia744 (Reply 15):
look for more routes from JFK in the near future...

international, domestic, both???


User currently offlineN839MH From United States of America, joined Mar 2001, 371 posts, RR: 0
Reply 17, posted (7 years 7 months 3 weeks 6 days 3 hours ago) and read 3350 times:

My Bad...I was thinking of something else...sorry FlyPNS1...

but back to the topic...this is great...the only thing I wish was different
about this would have been these flights been operated with DL mainline!

Does anyone know if the E170's have a weight restriction at times like
the RJ's?



Solodude!
User currently offlineWA707atMSP From United States of America, joined Oct 2006, 2226 posts, RR: 8
Reply 18, posted (7 years 7 months 3 weeks 6 days 2 hours ago) and read 3304 times:

It's interesting that AA has been able to make a route from LGA to DL's biggest hub (ATL) work, but DL wasn't able to succeed from LGA to AA's biggest hub, even though AA doesn't have the history at ATL that DL has at DFW.


Seaholm Maples are #1!
User currently offlineTinpusher007 From United States of America, joined Feb 2005, 977 posts, RR: 1
Reply 19, posted (7 years 7 months 3 weeks 6 days 2 hours ago) and read 3270 times:

Quoting WA707atMSP (Reply 18):
It's interesting that AA has been able to make a route from LGA to DL's biggest hub (ATL) work, but DL wasn't able to succeed from LGA to AA's biggest hub, even though AA doesn't have the history at ATL that DL has at DFW.

My thoughts exactly! When DL pulled down DFW, I always thought they would have and should have kept DFW-NYC/BOS/LAX, the hubs and FL service. But perhaps there is something else in store for DL.



"Flying isn't inherently dangerous...but very unforgiving of carelessness, incapacity or neglect."
User currently offlineAlitalia744 From United States of America, joined Mar 2000, 4748 posts, RR: 44
Reply 20, posted (7 years 7 months 3 weeks 6 days 2 hours ago) and read 3253 times:

Quoting WA707atMSP (Reply 18):
interesting that AA has been able to make a route from LGA to DL's biggest hub (ATL) work, but DL wasn't able to succeed from LGA to AA's biggest hub, even though AA doesn't have the history at ATL that DL has at DFW.

the route wasn't a failure bro. so whats interesting? their moving a bunch of flights (these aren't the first) to JFK...



Some see lines, others see between the lines.
User currently offlineN839MH From United States of America, joined Mar 2001, 371 posts, RR: 0
Reply 21, posted (7 years 7 months 3 weeks 6 days 2 hours ago) and read 3245 times:

One of the biggest reasons the DFW-LGA market hasn't worked in DFW is because of Shuttle America. Many problems with the E170's, and more so the on-time performance has really been pathetic. The last flight from DFW to LGA, this flight is late 4 days a week if not more on average. We continue to rebook passengers on AA off of this flight because it is late the majority of the time. Dependability is what is killing this market for Delta and will do the same for the JFK flights. My thoughts would be have the morning 07:20 flight goto LGA...the later morning flight to JFK and the early afternoon flight to LGA...but all with mainline!


Solodude!
User currently offlineBigGSFO From United States of America, joined Jun 2005, 2924 posts, RR: 6
Reply 22, posted (7 years 7 months 3 weeks 6 days 2 hours ago) and read 3207 times:

Quoting Alitalia744 (Reply 20):
the route wasn't a failure bro. so whats interesting? their moving a bunch of flights (these aren't the first) to JFK...

Obviously moving flights to JFK makes sense given DL's hub. However, and not to turn this into another LGA vs. JFK thread, DFW-LGA was naturally set-up to link two important business centers. I would think that DL could offer both LGA and JFK from DFW. I am guessing the higher yielding business travels felt differently hence the move from LGA to JFK. So yes, DFW-LGA did fail but I am certain DFW-JFK will be a success.

At the end of the day, I guess what is truly important is that DL has a presence in the Dallas-New York City market, whether it's to LGA or JFK...


User currently offlineCommavia From United States of America, joined Apr 2005, 11600 posts, RR: 61
Reply 23, posted (7 years 7 months 3 weeks 5 days 23 hours ago) and read 3107 times:

Quoting WA707atMSP (Reply 18):
It's interesting that AA has been able to make a route from LGA to DL's biggest hub (ATL) work, but DL wasn't able to succeed from LGA to AA's biggest hub, even though AA doesn't have the history at ATL that DL has at DFW.

Indeed. And the route is about to go all-mainline (4x MD80s) from a mix of MD80s and Eagle RJs starting 10Apr06.

Quoting N839MH (Reply 21):
One of the biggest reasons the DFW-LGA market hasn't worked in DFW is because of Shuttle America. Many problems with the E170's, and more so the on-time performance has really been pathetic.

I think the schedule may also have something to do with it. With Delta's first eastbound D/FW departure at 10:20am, how do they possibly expect to attract business travelers (especially on such a narrow, low-frequency route to begin with)? The westbound schedule out of LGA isn't nearly as bad, but it's still hardly ideal when we're talking about three daily flights with 75-seat jets versus American's 15 daily flights (one every 45-60 minutes) with 140-seat jets.


User currently offlineWorldTraveler From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 24, posted (7 years 7 months 3 weeks 5 days 19 hours ago) and read 2963 times:

It’s worth noting that ATLNYC is a low fare priced market and has been for several years. DFWNYC has traditionally not been low fare priced. There are very few examples where one network carrier has successfully penetrated another network carrier’s hub if the market does not have a low fare structure.

Also, AA has a stronger presence in NYC than DL does in DFW; remember, AA was headquartered in NYC for the first 40 years or so of its existence. Even now, AA and DL have fairly similar shares in NYC; DL’s share of the DFW market is less than 1/10th of AA’s.


25 HPAEAA : So what happens to the slots that DL might free up by shifitng some ops to JFK? I don't know completely how it works, but do they have to give them up
26 WorldTraveler : DL can easily increase service on existing routes.... they won't give up any slots
27 Jr : While 3 flights on little E170s don't help much, DL also seems to do a real bad job of advertising its flights out of DFW. Hardly anyone seems to know
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