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SFO-MBJ Nonstops On The "radar Screen"?  
User currently offlineLimaNiner From United States of America, joined Oct 2006, 400 posts, RR: 0
Posted (7 years 5 months 3 weeks 2 hours ago) and read 3535 times:

How come there's no non-stop on SFO-MBJ? I fly this route with my family non-stop several times a year, and often, we meet pax who fly the exact same route on at least one of the legs.

So far, there are 4-5 decent connections I'm aware of:

AA SFO-MIA-MBJ
AA SFO-DFW-MBJ (some days of the week)
DL SFO-ATL-MBJ
US SFO-CLT-MBJ
JM LAX-MBJ (and some way for me to get to LAX)

Given that we've often met people flying the exact same route, is there a market big enough to justify a non-stop? (We tend to fly first class, and so do the other pax we meet -- maybe that skews/invalidates the sample set? OTOH, isn't "up front" exactly where the airline makes the $$$?)

16 replies: All unread, jump to last
 
User currently offlineFlyingTexan From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 1, posted (7 years 5 months 3 weeks 2 hours ago) and read 3505 times:

CO via EWR


.
.
.


User currently offlineAvianca From Venezuela, joined Jan 2005, 5919 posts, RR: 40
Reply 2, posted (7 years 5 months 3 weeks 2 hours ago) and read 3493 times:

Quoting FlyingTexan (Reply 1):
CO via EWR

isnt the route to much north.... in order to compete directly with the first mentioned? well if the fare is cheap....



Colombia es el Mundo Y el Mundo es Colombia
User currently offlineLaxintl From United States of America, joined May 2000, 24707 posts, RR: 46
Reply 3, posted (7 years 5 months 3 weeks 2 hours ago) and read 3480 times:

Its been done and tried before.

During the 90s both ATA and Rich International briefly operated weekly SFO-MBJ charters on behalf of tour operators.

Ultimately however it comes down to West Coasters dont really make Caribbean destinations part of their vacations plans with closer options such as Hawaii and Mexico being in easy reach. Hey you can even make it down to Tahiti in mere 7 hours.

To be honest, I'm surprised Air Jamaica has managed to hang on this long in the LA market. For the first 10 months of 2006, they managed a 69% load factor, while the 2005 annual load was 66%. Both likely not profitable. The only other Caribbean nonstop from entire California is AA's low frequency LAX-SJU trip.



From the desert to the sea, to all of Southern California
User currently offlineMD90fan From Bahamas, joined Jul 2005, 2931 posts, RR: 7
Reply 4, posted (7 years 5 months 3 weeks 2 hours ago) and read 3467 times:

Air Jamaica was considering buying Airbus A319s a while back to operate to San Fransisco along with Vancouver a while back.

You can add CO via IAH, and IIRC DFW-MBJ is daily now.

Cheers,
Devan  wave 



http://www.devanwells.blogspot.com/
User currently offlineLimaNiner From United States of America, joined Oct 2006, 400 posts, RR: 0
Reply 5, posted (7 years 5 months 2 weeks 5 days 3 hours ago) and read 3211 times:

Quoting FlyingTexan (Reply 1):
CO via EWR



Quoting MD90fan (Reply 4):
You can add CO via IAH, and IIRC DFW-MBJ is daily now.

True, but those are kinda getting on the long side... If you want *all* routes, I guess you could even include VS via LHR...  Wink

Quoting Laxintl (Reply 3):
Ultimately however it comes down to West Coasters dont really make Caribbean destinations part of their vacations plans with closer options such as Hawaii and Mexico being in easy reach.

I guess you're right... *sigh*  Sad

Quoting Laxintl (Reply 3):
I'm surprised Air Jamaica has managed to hang on this long in the LA market.

It's so much easier to run a "business" if you don't have to worry about profitability...  Wink


User currently offlineTWA902fly From United States of America, joined Dec 1999, 3121 posts, RR: 4
Reply 6, posted (7 years 5 months 2 weeks 5 days 1 hour ago) and read 3163 times:

Quoting LimaNiner (Reply 5):
True, but those are kinda getting on the long side... If you want *all* routes, I guess you could even include VS via LHR...

how is that on the long side

SFO-IAH-MBJ is only 4 miles longer than SFO-MBJ.
SFO-DFW-MBJ is only 28 miles longer than SFO-MBJ

'902



life wasn't worth the balance, or the crumpled paper it was written on
User currently offlineLimaNiner From United States of America, joined Oct 2006, 400 posts, RR: 0
Reply 7, posted (7 years 5 months 2 weeks 4 days 5 hours ago) and read 3033 times:

Quoting TWA902fly (Reply 6):
SFO-IAH-MBJ is only 4 miles longer than SFO-MBJ.

Sorry, I misread this one -- I thought it said "IAD", which, granted, isn't *that* far out of the way, either...


User currently offlineAkizidy214 From Jamaica, joined Sep 2006, 408 posts, RR: 0
Reply 8, posted (7 years 5 months 2 weeks 4 days 5 hours ago) and read 3019 times:

Quoting LimaNiner (Thread starter):
How come there's no non-stop on SFO-MBJ?

AA has a hard time filling the seasonal DFW-MBJ flight let alone a SFO-MBJ flight and there is a bigger Jamaican population in Dallas than there is in San Francisco. The aircraft could be used on a much more profitable route. I suggest SFO-DFW-MBJ on AA or SFO-LAX-MBJ on Air Jamaica. I also suggest a visit to my hometown Bluefields  Wink.



DCA
User currently offlineAirCop From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 9, posted (7 years 5 months 2 weeks 4 days 5 hours ago) and read 2984 times:

Quoting Laxintl (Reply 3):
West Coasters dont really make Caribbean destinations part of their vacations plans

Oh well its there lost, personally I much rather go to the Caribbean than Cabo San Lucas or Hawaii. (Although it can be a core getting to some parts of the Caribbean from PHX) Side note around 2000-2001 Air Jamacia attempted PHX-MBJ didn't work, then attempted PHX-IAH-MBJ apparently they couldn't make that work either.


User currently offlineMAH4546 From Sweden, joined Jan 2001, 32568 posts, RR: 72
Reply 10, posted (7 years 5 months 2 weeks 4 days 5 hours ago) and read 2979 times:

Quoting Akizidy214 (Reply 8):

AA has a hard time filling the seasonal DFW-MBJ flight let alone a SFO-MBJ flight and there is a bigger Jamaican population in Dallas than there is in San Francisco. The aircraft could be used on a much more profitable route. I suggest SFO-DFW-MBJ on AA or SFO-LAX-MBJ on Air Jamaica. I also suggest a visit to my hometown Bluefields

Jamaicans fill plans to Kingston, not Montego. And no matter how much "bigger" Dallas' Jamaican community may or not be, neither is anything of significance.



a.
User currently offlineSLCUT2777 From United States of America, joined Dec 2005, 4019 posts, RR: 11
Reply 11, posted (7 years 5 months 2 weeks 4 days 4 hours ago) and read 2927 times:

Quoting MAH4546 (Reply 10):
Jamaicans fill plans to Kingston, not Montego. And no matter how much "bigger" Dallas' Jamaican community may or not be, neither is anything of significance.

Pretty much the greater NYC, BOS region or south Florida (MIA, FLL & PBI) will be the greatest O&D to Jamaica. During the winter a few Canadian cities (YYZ, YUL, Quebec City) might fill a charter 2x-3x per week to MBJ.

[Edited 2007-01-25 04:28:04]


DELTA Air Lines; The Only Way To Fly from Salt Lake City; Let the Western Heritage always be with Delta!
User currently offlineAkizidy214 From Jamaica, joined Sep 2006, 408 posts, RR: 0
Reply 12, posted (7 years 5 months 2 weeks 4 days 4 hours ago) and read 2927 times:

Quoting MAH4546 (Reply 10):
Jamaicans fill plans to Kingston, not Montego.

And your trying to say.....Limaniner is clearly a tourist and tourist attempt to fill planes to MBJ not KIN.



DCA
User currently offlineFATFlyer From United States of America, joined May 2001, 5789 posts, RR: 15
Reply 13, posted (7 years 5 months 2 weeks 4 days 4 hours ago) and read 2901 times:

We've connected from Fresno to MBJ through both ATL and JFK.

But the travel time puts it lower on our repeat business than say Mexico or Hawaii. Probably many others feel the same way.

The same problem applies the other direction. East Coasters don't vacation in Hawaii in as large of numbers as West Coasters.

Looking at some numbers, more vacationers go to Hawaii from Fresno than from Cincinnati or Cleveland. Heck, more people vacation in Hawaii from Modesto than do from Pittsburgh or Charlotte.

Quoting Laxintl (Reply 3):
For the first 10 months of 2006, they managed a 69% load factor, while the 2005 annual load was 66%. Both likely not profitable.

My guess also is that nearly all of the tickets are booked in a package. Is it still a honeymoon run out of LAX?



"Travel is fatal to prejudice, bigotry, and narrow-mindedness." - Mark Twain
User currently offlineSLCUT2777 From United States of America, joined Dec 2005, 4019 posts, RR: 11
Reply 14, posted (7 years 5 months 2 weeks 4 days 3 hours ago) and read 2866 times:

Quoting Laxintl (Reply 3):
Ultimately however it comes down to West Coasters dont really make Caribbean destinations part of their vacations plans with closer options such as Hawaii and Mexico being in easy reach. Hey you can even make it down to Tahiti in mere 7 hours.

It will amaze you how many Canadians from the western provinces (Alberta, B.C.) still take Signature or SunQuest charters to the Dominican Republic (POP & PUJ) each winter. SLC is just about the half way point of North America between Hawaii and a significant chunk of the Caribbean. But you're correct the western two time zones do orient more towards Hawaii and the Pacific Riviera of Mexico, and PPT is only a short-hop of 7 hours from LAX for those with the $$$!



DELTA Air Lines; The Only Way To Fly from Salt Lake City; Let the Western Heritage always be with Delta!
User currently offlineLimaNiner From United States of America, joined Oct 2006, 400 posts, RR: 0
Reply 15, posted (7 years 5 months 2 weeks 4 days 1 hour ago) and read 2811 times:

Quoting Akizidy214 (Reply 8):
I suggest SFO-DFW-MBJ on AA or SFO-LAX-MBJ on Air Jamaica.

We always do AA SFO-MIA-MBJ -- I wish AA ran the 767 on the SFO-MIA redeye.

The problem with the Air Jamaica connection is that on the return, you pretty much have to overnight in LA, unless you want to do LAX-SJC on WN, or something like that...

These days, I actually don't mind spending a night in Miami Beach on the way there and back to break up the day (it works better when traveling with a 2-yo son). I don't want to become the subject of another a.net thread, like the one currently raging in this forum, or the evergreen "why do they allow kids in first class??" (Answer: "because the airline sold a first class seat for a kid."  Wink

Quoting Akizidy214 (Reply 12):
Limaniner is clearly a tourist and tourist attempt to fill planes to MBJ not KIN.

Actually, I have family in Kingston, but these days, I go to JA to "chill out", not to look over my shoulder, so I avoid "town" -- haven't been there since '01. I spend my time on the North Coast...

It would have been nice, but I guess the business case just isn't there... *sigh*


User currently offlineSLCUT2777 From United States of America, joined Dec 2005, 4019 posts, RR: 11
Reply 16, posted (7 years 5 months 2 weeks 3 days 12 hours ago) and read 2702 times:

Quoting FATFlyer (Reply 13):
My guess also is that nearly all of the tickets are booked in a package.

To a place like MBJ, that will be a given; a tour deal involving a few nights at an all-inclusive hotel/casino. From the U.S. a place like MBJ is pricier than compared to what Signature, SunQuest or Transat Vacations can offer up in Canada.



DELTA Air Lines; The Only Way To Fly from Salt Lake City; Let the Western Heritage always be with Delta!
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