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DL Western Expansion Out Of LAX, Update!  
User currently offlineDeltaAir From United States of America, joined May 1999, 1094 posts, RR: 0
Posted (15 years 6 months 3 weeks 5 days 9 hours ago) and read 4072 times:

I about jumped out of the airplane after hearing some of this news. I've talked to a few people at DL after hearing this on another forum, he confirmed some of this and more:

1. Million Miler status will count in waitlists, upgrades, standby's etc. along with status, etc. in 2001. During 2000 and before this wasn't the case. So basically, you are a Million Miler for life.

2. LAX-FRA service will commence again, most likely with either a MD-11 or 777.

3. Service will be beefed up to LAX from many west coast airports as well as east coast cities to help feed.

4. The LAX Crown Room is currently under renovation, the new Crown Room will include showers and many other upgraded facilities.

5. Most Delta 767-300 service to LAX will be upgraded with 777s, as will the new Asian routes out of LAX. This does of course bring up the question of when the additional aircraft will be delivered.

And Now the Most Startling Rumor/Fact................

6. With SkyTeam expanding at the new Ichon Airport and capacity being needed in the next few years for feeder flights in and out of Korea & Asia, can we guess what will compliment the 777s? Yes, You guessed it 747s. Most likely Combi's will be ordered, but who knows.

28 replies: All unread, showing first 25:
User currently offlinePlanefreak From United States of America, joined Jan 2000, 202 posts, RR: 0
Reply 1, posted (15 years 6 months 3 weeks 5 days 8 hours ago) and read 3787 times:

DL does indeed plan for expanding into Korea w/ their own a/c. It is still "up in the air" on what a/c will fly the route.


User currently offlineModesto2 From United States of America, joined Jul 2000, 2898 posts, RR: 5
Reply 2, posted (15 years 6 months 3 weeks 5 days 5 hours ago) and read 3715 times:

When's that LAX-FRA starting? That's great. Why FRA? And 747s for Delta? This should be interesting. Are you sure?

User currently offlineN960AS From Switzerland, joined Apr 2000, 467 posts, RR: 6
Reply 3, posted (15 years 6 months 3 weeks 5 days 5 hours ago) and read 3697 times:

That is great they are expanding. So many airlines seem to be taking an interest in LAX recently, UA, AA, TW and now DL.
Is DL going to find a feeder carrier for LAX? I believe they stopped Skywest at LAX, anyway all the the Skywest E120s are in UA colors. Could we see CRJs? Which West Coast routes are they planning, it is pretty tough at there, between UA, WN, AS, Hp kinda and AA (ex-QQ). Which routes would get 777s, ATL? Maybe JFK, well actually I doubt that, but a 764 for JFK would be very nice.

Any thoughts...

Modesto2, FRA was most likely chose because when DL aquired PA's Trans-Atlantic routes FRA was PA's Euro hub. To an extent it still is for DL. They fly from FRA to JFK, ATL, CVG and Bombay. They had 727 feeders, I don't know if they still do though.

User currently offlineDalflyer From United States of America, joined Aug 2000, 57 posts, RR: 0
Reply 4, posted (15 years 6 months 3 weeks 5 days 4 hours ago) and read 3663 times:

Hello All,
I am trilled to read stuff like that. Hopefully they increase their frequencies to Mexico City (Using their own planes). As for all the stuff about an expansion, well let's hope that if that ever comes through, Delta would beat United and American in dominance of LAX.

"Fly Somewhere Fun!"-Delta.

P.S. To N960AS: Delta doesn't use 727s at FRA anymore. It's a pity, but that's how it is.

User currently offlineTrvlr From United States of America, joined Feb 2000, 4430 posts, RR: 19
Reply 5, posted (15 years 6 months 3 weeks 5 days 3 hours ago) and read 3642 times:

I bet Skywest will be used for the feeder routes. Actually not all EMB-120s are in UA colors now. I hope that RJs are introduced, because the other west coast cities have got from LAX are the EMB-120s.

Aaron G.

User currently offlineDELTAMD-11 From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 6, posted (15 years 6 months 3 weeks 5 days 3 hours ago) and read 3652 times:

What???Where in gods name are you getting this information from?In case you haven't noticed, Delta has practically no extra aircraft for expansion out west, and the 777's, all 7 of them mind you, are currently running routes already, so until Delta gets their other 4 777's sometime in 2003 i believe, I can't see them starting an Lax-Fra route.And while I myself am a Delta fan, i would think that they're smart enough not to challenge United AND American in Lax.They simply don't have the aircraft.And they don't have a whole lot of feed into Lax as well.And as for the 747, it won't be happening, and i read that from a quote from C.e.o. Leo Mullin in an employee forum.If anything, Delta may be getting the 777-300, but you can forget about the 747 anytime soon.Sorry to burst your bubble, but your statements are skewed.

User currently offlineIshky15 From United States of America, joined May 2000, 717 posts, RR: 12
Reply 7, posted (15 years 6 months 3 weeks 4 days 19 hours ago) and read 3600 times:

I think that its great that Delta is building up Frankfurt and its heading into the direction of a hub, with flights to Atlanta, Delhi, New York, Cincinatti, Bombay, Los Angeles, and soon Boston. Maybe we'll see more.

Does Delta have local traffic rights to India? Can German passengers just buy a ticket to Delhi/Bombay?

User currently offlineNickofatlanta From Australia, joined May 2000, 1493 posts, RR: 0
Reply 8, posted (15 years 6 months 3 weeks 4 days 16 hours ago) and read 3567 times:

Yes, DL does have local traffic rights from Germany to India.

User currently offlineSkyWestPilot From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 9, posted (15 years 6 months 3 weeks 4 days 14 hours ago) and read 3554 times:

I can tell you that SkyWest will NOT be part of any LAX expansion for Delta. Been there, done that. The Delta Connection service is not profitable enough for SkyWest to reenter LAX service. And it would be a big conflict of interests with our United Express service. Rumor mill around here says that American Eagle will be doing the Delta codeshare. (???) You MAY see a SkyWest RJ in Delta colors running between SLC and LAX, but not much else. Delt will be using all our new Delta Connection RJs out of SLC.

User currently offlineTrvlr From United States of America, joined Feb 2000, 4430 posts, RR: 19
Reply 10, posted (15 years 6 months 3 weeks 4 days 13 hours ago) and read 3526 times:

If American Eagle is contracted to do the commuter flights, then it will become a commuter service in California for 4 major U.S. carriers! Now they do flights for AA, NW, and TW, in addition to a number of international carriers and Hawaiian Air in California.

Aaron G.

User currently offlineSegmentKing From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 11, posted (15 years 6 months 3 weeks 4 days 13 hours ago) and read 3527 times:

United still has the largest lift out of LAX than anyone.... United already considers LAX a hub and has little room to grow with... I mean, they've already pushed continental out of a few gates and invaded their terminal...

UA service at LAX (no OO service.. too many cities listed)
ATL - A319
AKL - 747-400
BWI - 757
BOS - 762,757,757
ORD - I don't want to list all of them... 777s, 320s, 757s, 763, a DC10 ugh -
DFW - 319, 319, 319
DEN - same as ORD less DC10 sighting
GUA - 757 (nonstop)
HKG - 744
HNL - 747,777,763,757
IAH - 319,319
OGG - 763, 757
KOA - 757, 757
LAS - shuttle 735, 733s
LIH - 757
LHR - 777, 777
MEL - 744
MEX - 320, 320
MIA - 777, 320
MSY - 319, 757
EWR - 320, 320, 757, 757, 320
JFK - 762, 762, 762, 762, 762, 762, 762, 762 (now this is frequent transcon svc)
OAK - shuttle 733, 735s
CDG - 777
PHL - 320, 320, 320, 320
PHX - shuttle 733, 735s
PDX - more shuttle 733, 735s
RNO - a few shuttle flts
SMF - more shuttle 733s
SLC - shuttle galore
SAN - 5 shuttle flights here.. unless it's back to 8
SFO - hrm.. flights every 15 minutes during peak times..  
SJC - another shuttle market
SJO (San Jose costa Rica) 320 1 stop via MEX
SAL - 320
SEA - 733, 320, 733, 757, 319, 320, 733, 319
SYD - 744
NRT - 744, 744
YVR - 320
IAD - 757, 757, 757, 757, 757, 320, 777, 319
ASE - 146
HDN - 146

United also does an awesome scheduling balance with San Francisco by trying to route as much traffic via SFO as it can so it doesn't have to spread it's flights between two west coast hubs that are only 500 miles apart... as it appears United could DO some growth out of LAX, they just don't have the room or resources without shoving someone else out of the way. the Star Alliance, however, will be the largest factor leading to United's continued growth as American adds flights to LAX from normal United Strongholds or high yield markets...

Delta lost it big when skywest went over to United... Delta has to realign it's own flying in order to compete with the larger guys and it has shown it's willing and ready to do it....


User currently offlineDeltaSFO From United States of America, joined Nov 2000, 2488 posts, RR: 21
Reply 12, posted (15 years 6 months 3 weeks 4 days 11 hours ago) and read 3493 times:

Delta wouldn't order 744s if you put a gun to their head. It should be obvious that the Pacific Rim market, which is the primary domain of 744s is definitely not our strength. There's not going to be any major expansion at LAX. As somebody said before, we just don't have the aircraft. Sure, LAX is picking up one of PDX's NRT lines, but can you imagine how hard it will be to switch the line from the MD-11 to the 777? The reason the 777s don't come to the West Coast is because there are no aircraft. There are only 7, with 6 on the way, but of those 6, four won't be here for two or three years.

I don't think LAX provides much room for Delta to grow internationally. If anywhere, the best place for international growth on the West Coast would be SFO, with its new International Terminal, the largest in the Americas. Let me qualify that statement, however. There will be no room for anything at SFO until they build the new runway. A gorgeous terminal is all well and good, but we need to be able to land the damn planes in bad weather. Too many IRROPS here. Second, Delta would need domestic gates. Right now we have gates 40-49. Once the international carriers move to the new IT, if we fought hard enough, we could acquire the old IT, which would give us up to an additional 10 gates. So let's say we have 20 domestic gates at SFO. Assuming the new runway has been built, we would be able to accomodate the feeder traffic for transpacific lines to NRT, SEL, etc. For those of you that think it wouldn't work because of UAL's presence, remember that NW also flies over the big pond from SFO and runs consistently high load factors, and so does AA out of SJC. So there is a market for expansion.

But this is only my imagination. It will never happen for two reasons: First, there are no airplanes. We'd need more 777s. Second, Delta appears to be going with the strategy of eliminating Pacific gateway cities. JFK-PEK is good, but ATL-HKG? If you don't live in the Southern U.S., this one is not an option. SLC-NRT? You're still leaving out the California market, which has room for more than just UAL.

It's a new day. Every moment matters. Now, more than ever.
User currently offlineFjnovak1 From United States of America, joined Apr 2000, 615 posts, RR: 2
Reply 13, posted (15 years 6 months 3 weeks 4 days 11 hours ago) and read 3480 times:

DeltaSFO, you don't have gates 40-49. Northwest has gates 43, 45a, 45b, and 47 (I know cause I have been on flights from all those gates), and I believe 48 at least for the most part is vacant. So that leaves 40, 41, 42, 44, and 46.

Go Blue!!
User currently offlineDeltaSFO From United States of America, joined Nov 2000, 2488 posts, RR: 21
Reply 14, posted (15 years 6 months 3 weeks 4 days 11 hours ago) and read 3468 times:

Actually, we do have all those gates. Gates 43, 45a, 45b, and 47 are ours. We lease them to Northwest. Also, I forgot to mention in my previous post that we lease gates 21 and 23 to Air Canada. We use these gates occasionally, particularly when we have IRROPS. So Delta could simply opt not to renew the leases with Northwest and Air Canada and we'd have all the gates we need.

It's a new day. Every moment matters. Now, more than ever.
User currently offlineDeltaAir From United States of America, joined May 1999, 1094 posts, RR: 0
Reply 15, posted (15 years 6 months 3 weeks 4 days 10 hours ago) and read 3457 times:

About the aircraft shortage.......I remember a few months ago when DL was running really low on 767-300ERs, has that problem ever been corrected? Also, it should be noted that Delta has rolling options on 5-10 777s that can be delivered within 6-8 months.

User currently offlineImkeww From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 16, posted (15 years 6 months 3 weeks 4 days 5 hours ago) and read 3401 times:


The new SFO int'l terminal is pretty much sewn up with United and Star pals occupying the north concourse (13 widebody gates) and the rest of the international carriers at the south concourse (13 widebody gates, a modest increase from 10).

Also, note these things:

SW, US, CO et. al from The southernmost domestic terminal are moving to the old IT (where there will be more gates since widebody use by current terminal A carriers is limited). Expect an influx of 5+ gates as a result. Also, AA might be moving in to the extra gates as UA looks to occupy all of the airport's north side.

NW has token service to it's internation hub, NRT. (They might serve their mini-hub, KIX, as well). That's it.

I don't think it's possible for Delta to make a hub at SFO, but then again, you work for them and are generally much more knowledgable about SFO than me.

I'm just stating things I've found out.

User currently offlineNWA Man From United States of America, joined Jun 1999, 1828 posts, RR: 11
Reply 17, posted (15 years 6 months 3 weeks 4 days 2 hours ago) and read 3379 times:

NW just has service to NRT from SFO, no KIX service from the City By The Bay.


P.S.- Delta wouldn't dare take away NW's lease at SFO...too profitable for DL and too vital for NW. Delta not renewing the lease of those gates would be an act of war.

BTW, DeltaSFO, why doesn't AC fly from UA's gates, seeing as they are both Star carriers and AC flies from UA gates at DEN? Just wondering...

Create your own luck.
User currently offlineSegmentKing From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 18, posted (15 years 6 months 3 weeks 4 days 2 hours ago) and read 3375 times:

From what I hear from UAL WHQ - Alliances and Interline folk, the Star Alliance movement to a common area will be a slow transition as ground service contracts and airport lease space is available. Air Canada moved in a few mos from Concourse G at O'Hare to United's gates on E side (E1, E1a, E2)... and United taking up some gates on A Side at Denver was just a matter of time.

Lufthansa moved quite quickly to United... I think they had to wait to boot BA out of Terminal 1 though.... which to me is wierd because BA operated from standard counters on the very far north side while LH took over the southern counter units from United.......

I am told LAX movements are next, depending on how the NW/CO operations work out, as United has not kept it a secret they want ALL of Terminal 6..

Now as for Delta... do they even have room @ LAX to expand???? I thought they were in quite cramped quarters the way it is....

wouldn't you think it's about time to take an A bomb and let it go off in the middle of the airport?? I think a layout like ORD would be nice... just different colours in the lil tunnels if any  


User currently offlineAirCanadaSFO From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 19, posted (15 years 6 months 3 weeks 3 days 11 hours ago) and read 3361 times:

In response to several people here...

You're right. Carrier locations within the New IT are pretty much finalized, with UA, MX, LH, NH, and SQ in the North Concourse and everybody else in the south. But one of the nicest things about the IT is that gates as well as counter space are interchangeable. For example, after a Mexicana flight leaves, United will use that gate, then maybe Lufthansa might use the gate. So each gate is not fixed strictly to one carrier. So looking at the way things are working right now, we've got all these international carriers sharing 26 gates in the New IT, compared to the same number sharing 10 gates right now. Look at the room for growth.

I've heard that the most likely scenario for the Old IT has AA taking 6 of the 10 gates and WN or CO or one of those Terminal A carriers taking up the rest. UA would take AA's current gates in Concourse E, giving them control of about 50 of the 114 gates at SFO. But, as always, the Old IT will go to the highest bidder, and if Delta wanted it enough, they could go after it.

NWA Man...
I agree that Delta will never terminate NW's lease on our gates, unless, of course our dreams came true and Delta took on an expansion project in SFO. NW does pay a small fortune for the prime real estate. Being close to the IT allows for easy connections for pax and easy access for CSRs and rampers. Besides, Concourse C is easily the most modern, most aesthetically pleasing concourse of the whole airport, even though it will lose that title once the New IT is open. Without the lease, NW would be exiled to the low-rent district, the South Terminal. The only thing that would be more profitable for Delta than NW leasing the gates would be hub flying for connections.

Segment King and NWA Man....
Air Canada will be moving to the North Terminal once their lease on Gates 21 and 23 expire .That will conveniently occur around the time that UAL will have three domestic gates to give to AC. The only thing holding back the Star Alliance movements in SFO is the whole mess of the New IT and figuring out who is going to be where. SFO is a big enough station for AC (32 daily flights) that corporate is adamant about having Air Canada gates that have Air Canada logos on them. Otherwise, we would have been using UAL gates a long time ago, as is done in DEN and other smaller stations.

Segment King...
Don't look for an LAX expansion anytime soon from Delta. You're right, there is no room at all. I haven't heard a single thing, except about LAX picking up PDX's NRT line. But those of us here in SFO are hoping against hope that corporate will at least think about bringing back a few international lines to SFO. We want to go work in the New IT! And we want to see the 777 here! Too bad it's not going to happen.

formerly AirCanadaSFO

User currently offlineDelta15 From United States of America, joined Nov 1999, 617 posts, RR: 4
Reply 20, posted (15 years 6 months 3 weeks 3 days 10 hours ago) and read 3344 times:

Didnt delta pick up a Nagoya flight from PDX, not a Narita flight?

User currently offlineTrvlr From United States of America, joined Feb 2000, 4430 posts, RR: 19
Reply 21, posted (15 years 6 months 3 weeks 3 days 10 hours ago) and read 3332 times:

You are correct. Delta will move the PDX-Nagoya (NGO) flight to LAX while the PDX-NRT flight will go to JFK.

Aaron G.

User currently offlineRyu2 From Taiwan, joined Aug 2002, 512 posts, RR: 0
Reply 22, posted (15 years 6 months 3 weeks 3 days 9 hours ago) and read 3331 times:

Does the bit about Delta's 767-300 service out of LAX being replaced with 777s mean that we'll see a lot of DL 777s out here once DL gets more aircraft?

Since most of DL's LAX-JFK, -ATL, and -BOS flights are 767-300s, if that statement really means what I think it means, it should be so.

User currently offlineDeltaSFO From United States of America, joined Nov 2000, 2488 posts, RR: 21
Reply 23, posted (15 years 6 months 3 weeks 3 days 8 hours ago) and read 3321 times:

I heard from our redcoat that the NRT line is going to LAX and the NGO line is for JFK...

Guess it got mixed up along the way somewhere.


It's a new day. Every moment matters. Now, more than ever.
User currently offlineRominato From United States of America, joined Nov 1999, 268 posts, RR: 1
Reply 24, posted (15 years 6 months 3 weeks 3 days 6 hours ago) and read 3300 times:

Didn't Delta already have a nice West Coast network set up when they took over Western? What happened to that? Why did they pull back so far? The same thing happened with US Air and PSA. I never quite understood why these mergers happen and then all the routes they get are taken away.

25 Imkeww : A few things: Well, won't all vast majority of the new international carriers be using only 13 (a net gain of 3) now at the south concourse of the IT?
26 Nickofatlanta : DL already flies (and has for some time) the LAX - NRT route. The new LAX route will be to NGO.
27 DeltaSFO : Thanks for the info on the LAX-NGO line. I stand corrected. Imkeww..... It is certainly true that more carriers will share the 13 south gates than wil
28 SkyWest-EMB120 : I have heard many a rumor that we may see Comair CRJ's in LAX over the next couple of years..thank goodness its them and not us...
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