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Finnair To BOM - Axes SIN, KUL  
User currently offlineUpperDeck79 From Finland, joined Feb 2005, 1139 posts, RR: 2
Posted (7 years 8 months 5 days 10 hours ago) and read 10552 times:

Finnairgroup.com:

FINNAIR FLIGHTS TO INDIA TO BE QUADRUPLED:
FLIGHTS TO MUMBAI ALL SET FOR JUNE LAUNCH


This is already partly discussed in Finnish Aviation Thread Vol. 2 (by UpperDeck79 Jan 18 2007 in Civil Aviation) , but I think a new thread is appropriate for this massive change in AY's operations.

DEL and HKG will go daily, BOM will be 5 weekly. BKK-SIN-BKK will be axed and BKK-KUL-BKK will not begin in May. CAN will go 4 weekly.


AY and ANA rock!
97 replies: All unread, showing first 25:
 
User currently offlineAndaman From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 1, posted (7 years 8 months 5 days 10 hours ago) and read 10516 times:

Will DEL and BOM both get A340 then?
And what will happened to 2x daily service to BKK in winter?
All together sounds like a clever move, India and China must have the fastest growing markets.


User currently offlineLordHowe From Finland, joined Jan 2003, 728 posts, RR: 1
Reply 2, posted (7 years 8 months 5 days 10 hours ago) and read 10495 times:

Quoting Andaman (Reply 1):
And what will happened to 2x daily service to BKK in winter?

BKK seems to be twice daily also next summer.

But what about the schedules? What will they look like? Are the India flights now going to connect better with JFK flights?

HEL is far too crowded during the afternoons, so I hope the schedules could take this into considerations. Anybody know yet? www.finnair.com seems still to have the old ones ...

How about SIN - gone forever?

Quoting Andaman (Reply 1):
Will DEL and BOM both get A340 then?

The first two of the new 340s are coming in May and June and then there is this old Virgin bird, so it is possible.

Regards,
LordHowe

[Edited 2007-01-22 12:15:08]


Lord Howe Island - The Last Paradise
User currently offlineNordiclight From Finland, joined Aug 2006, 6 posts, RR: 0
Reply 3, posted (7 years 8 months 5 days 10 hours ago) and read 10496 times:

Sorry for all!, i get wrong info from one of my friend working in AY, They internal communication is horroble!. AY will not fly anymore to SIN and KUL.

I was just wondering what BA will say about the change as AY has been also one of the airlines who has fill the planes to Australia ex-SIN. I heard that now AY will start to use more CX to Australia ex-HKG.


User currently offlineUpperDeck79 From Finland, joined Feb 2005, 1139 posts, RR: 2
Reply 4, posted (7 years 8 months 5 days 10 hours ago) and read 10491 times:

This change will also mean the start of a third (evening) long-haul departure bank from HEL:

14.00-15.00
JFK
DEL

16.30-17.30
PVG
CAN
HKG
NRT
NGO
KIX

20.00-20.30
BOM
BKK
PEK

Quoting Andaman (Reply 1):
Will DEL and BOM both get A340 then?

DEL will stay as MD-11. NRT, PVG and NRT will get A340.

This is the BOM schedule:

AY 029
HEL-BOM 20:00-06:10 + 1 day(s)
Non-stop / 343 / 7h40min / Mon, Tue, Wed, Thu, Sun

AY 030
BOM-HEL 08:15-13:50
Non-stop / 343 8h05min / Mon, Tue, Wed, Thu, Fri

[Edited 2007-01-22 12:20:42]


AY and ANA rock!
User currently offlineLordHowe From Finland, joined Jan 2003, 728 posts, RR: 1
Reply 5, posted (7 years 8 months 5 days 9 hours ago) and read 10444 times:

Quoting UpperDeck79 (Reply 4):
20.00-20.30
BOM
BKK
PEK

How about the other BKK flight? Or is there going to be one?

Regards,
LordHowe



Lord Howe Island - The Last Paradise
User currently offlineUpperDeck79 From Finland, joined Feb 2005, 1139 posts, RR: 2
Reply 6, posted (7 years 8 months 5 days 9 hours ago) and read 10391 times:

Quoting LordHowe (Reply 5):

How about the other BKK flight? Or is there going to be one?

In the summer there will be only one BKK per day. Let's see what happens in the winter.



AY and ANA rock!
User currently offlineOHLHD From Finland, joined Dec 2004, 3962 posts, RR: 25
Reply 7, posted (7 years 8 months 5 days 9 hours ago) and read 10389 times:

Is there so much traffic between HEL and India? I assume that it is a lot of transfer pax?

DEL is clear otherwise they would not go daily, but I hardly think that they are all in the cellphone business Big grin


User currently offlineLordHowe From Finland, joined Jan 2003, 728 posts, RR: 1
Reply 8, posted (7 years 8 months 5 days 9 hours ago) and read 10367 times:

Quoting UpperDeck79 (Reply 4):
AY 030
BOM-HEL 08:15-13:50

Will this be enough to connect to HEL-JFK departing 14.20? It doesn't work the other way round - meaning JFK-HEL-BOM - there would be a looooong wait in HEL.

Regards,
LordHowe



Lord Howe Island - The Last Paradise
User currently offlineHB-IWC From Indonesia, joined Sep 2000, 4504 posts, RR: 72
Reply 9, posted (7 years 8 months 5 days 9 hours ago) and read 10363 times:

I'm not surprised that the SIN tag will be axed and that the KUL tag won't be started. These tags are very costly and most of the time noth worth the effort, for sure not with the current low cost competition in Asia, which precludes any decent fares on the intra Asian sectors. The only way then for AY to make a SIN rotation work is through a nonstop flight. I wonder whether that ever happens.

User currently offlineKevin777 From Denmark, joined Sep 2006, 1165 posts, RR: 1
Reply 10, posted (7 years 8 months 5 days 9 hours ago) and read 10317 times:

Quoting OHLHD (Reply 7):
Is there so much traffic between HEL and India? I assume that it is a lot of transfer pax?

I doubt that too - and relying on transfer pax is not gonna make things easier.

Can't say I'm not surprised indeed about starting up BOM - and five weekly, in addition to going daily on DEL. The yields on BOM are absolutely terrible, with massive competition from all over Europe, most notably the UK and LHR in particular, and also increasingly from the M.E. And starting up to BOM in June????? How mad is that. Surely, an MD11 would be better at work over the Atlantic or something in the summer. "The direct way to Asia is via HEL" also fades a bit when you're going to BOM; HEL is more of detour now.

I'm indeed impressed by AY's expansions on long-haul in recent years, and I think they've been very wise and very focused. However, the BOM thing, to be honest, seems crazy. I do hope they have their reasons, but I think they're in for a tough one.

Kevin777  Smile



"I was waiting for you at DFW, but you must have been in LUV" CPH-HAM-CPH CR9
User currently offlineUpperDeck79 From Finland, joined Feb 2005, 1139 posts, RR: 2
Reply 11, posted (7 years 8 months 5 days 8 hours ago) and read 10233 times:

Finnair route map looks quite nice with the new additions (gc.kls2.com):

Big version: Width: 434 Height: 433 File size: 148kb
New Finnair Routemap


(Not all European routes are shown to make it more readable.)



AY and ANA rock!
User currently offlineManni From South Korea, joined Nov 2001, 4221 posts, RR: 23
Reply 12, posted (7 years 8 months 5 days 8 hours ago) and read 10176 times:

Quoting UpperDeck79 (Reply 11):
Finnair route map looks quite nice with the new additions (gc.kls2.com):

ICN would fit in nicely there. Weren't there rumours a while back that AY might start flying to ICN?



SUPPORT THE LEBANESE CIVILIANS
User currently offlineSukhoi From Sweden, joined May 2006, 373 posts, RR: 8
Reply 13, posted (7 years 8 months 5 days 8 hours ago) and read 10154 times:

Quoting Kevin777 (Reply 10):
"The direct way to Asia is via HEL" also fades a bit when you're going to BOM; HEL is more of detour now.

If you look at the local market up here in the north OSL, ARN and CPH travelling to HEL and then onwards to BOM you only have a 35-45 minutes transit time on your outbound flight. Play a little with great circle map and you will see that travelling via HEL are usually the shothest way in distance shorter than CPH-FRA-BOM.


User currently offlineUpperDeck79 From Finland, joined Feb 2005, 1139 posts, RR: 2
Reply 14, posted (7 years 8 months 5 days 8 hours ago) and read 10096 times:

Quoting Manni (Reply 12):
ICN would fit in nicely there. Weren't there rumours a while back that AY might start flying to ICN?

Yes, it would fit perfectly. And yes their were a lot of rumors. I hope we'll get ICN in 2008 with the 4th and 5th A343.



AY and ANA rock!
User currently offlineLordHowe From Finland, joined Jan 2003, 728 posts, RR: 1
Reply 15, posted (7 years 8 months 5 days 7 hours ago) and read 9910 times:

Quoting UpperDeck79 (Reply 14):
I hope we'll get ICN in 2008 with the 4th and 5th A343.

I hope we will get SIN back!

Regards,
LordHowe



Lord Howe Island - The Last Paradise
User currently offlineUpperDeck79 From Finland, joined Feb 2005, 1139 posts, RR: 2
Reply 16, posted (7 years 8 months 5 days 7 hours ago) and read 9908 times:

HEL-DEL will arrive to DEL before midnight, but the return flight has two different schedules:

AY022 DEL-HEL 01:00-06:00 MD-11 Daily except Mon, Sun
AY022 DEL-HEL 03:15-08:15 MD-11 Mon, Sun

Does anyone know the reason for this?



AY and ANA rock!
User currently offlineOHLHD From Finland, joined Dec 2004, 3962 posts, RR: 25
Reply 17, posted (7 years 8 months 5 days 6 hours ago) and read 9836 times:

A bit off-topic but does anyone know if there is a HEL-ENF service during summer? I cannot find one.

User currently offlineJimyvr From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 18, posted (7 years 8 months 5 days 6 hours ago) and read 9814 times:

A setback for KUL....oh well

User currently offlineFFlyer From United States of America, joined Nov 2001, 733 posts, RR: 0
Reply 19, posted (7 years 8 months 5 days 6 hours ago) and read 9761 times:

Quoting LordHowe (Reply 8):
Quoting UpperDeck79 (Reply 4):
AY 030
BOM-HEL 08:15-13:50

Will this be enough to connect to HEL-JFK departing 14.20?

Well, this connection would definitely cause frequent delays for the JFK flight. Assuming it would wait the BOM connecting pax.


User currently offlineUpperDeck79 From Finland, joined Feb 2005, 1139 posts, RR: 2
Reply 20, posted (7 years 8 months 5 days 5 hours ago) and read 9680 times:

Quoting OHLHD (Reply 17):
A bit off-topic but does anyone know if there is a HEL-ENF service during summer? I cannot find one.

I think ENF (Enontekiö) is only flown during the ski season.



AY and ANA rock!
User currently offlineOHLHD From Finland, joined Dec 2004, 3962 posts, RR: 25
Reply 21, posted (7 years 8 months 5 days 5 hours ago) and read 9663 times:

Quoting UpperDeck79 (Reply 20):
I think ENF (Enontekiö) is only flown during the ski season.

Not good to hear. I was looking for a cheaper variant of getting to TOS.  Smile


User currently offlineVadheim From Norway, joined Jul 2000, 623 posts, RR: 0
Reply 22, posted (7 years 8 months 5 days 5 hours ago) and read 9580 times:

I travel to Asia 2-3 times pr. year and always choose HEL and Finnair  Smile Very easy for us up in the north (OSL here...) Travelling via CPH, FRA, AMS is never an option anymore.

User currently offlineEFHK From Finland, joined Nov 2006, 392 posts, RR: 0
Reply 23, posted (7 years 8 months 5 days 3 hours ago) and read 9411 times:

Well, I was really surprised to see these news. But isn't this on quite a short notice?

Firstly, It's always nice to see a new service and it's goos to see these increases. It seems DEL has been so succesful that AY has decided to increase its presense there this radically. However, I'm a bit conservative with old routes and like traditions so I'm saddened to lose the late night BKK flight (was nice to see it take off before going to bed, I have good views to the runway 4R(&L) approach paths from my kitchen window), the SIN service (having flown it myself) and that KUL won't be started (for now). I really hope those will be started again, if not in winter schedules then when new planes arrive as nonstops.

Can anyone do the quick math to make sure these flights will be able to be handled with current equipment with the new 343s? I mean I'm sure they will, but just in case... Wink

[Edited 2007-01-22 19:11:04]


One of the best places in the world: McDonald's in T2 at FRA.
User currently offlineJaysit From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 24, posted (7 years 8 months 5 days 2 hours ago) and read 9349 times:

Maybe Finnair thinks it can pick up German and Scandinavian passengers headed to India. Currently, Lufthansa's flights to Mumbai and Delhi operate at an annual load factor of over 85% (about 80% for the entire Indian operation) with the airline's premium cabins being extremely popular. And also remember that Goa as a destination has become rather popular with Finnish tourists. I guess their strategy is Nokia corporate + Northern Europe + Goa.

I really don't see how they can make the New York - Mumbai operations work with the times they currently have.


25 LHStarAlliance : Great to see AY expanding in Asia . Do they have any plans to expand in Canada and the US? Lufthansa is the biggest European Airline in Asia , they ar
26 Andaman : AY has often made quick moves and been in a right place in a right time, I hope that's the way now too. BOM sounds a bit risky, lot of competition th
27 Andaman : No doubt their target is Northern-European transit passengers, like with their Asian service generally. Plus the Asian passengers travelling to Europ
28 Jimyvr : Probably codeshare with QANTAS on BKK-SIN
29 Post contains images UpperDeck79 : Give me an example! Does QF actually fly that?!
30 Jimyvr : I was actually thinking in the reverse way, it was QF codeshare on AY's SIN-BKK...
31 Post contains images EFHK : That's what I thought too. And I've also understood that airport facilities in India aren't exactly best ones in the world. That option sounds logica
32 Post contains images EFHK : I think it'll be hard for Andaman to make up one, so I'll say the suspension of MHQ flights!  [Edited 2007-01-22 20:19:58]
33 Andaman : Well, they were the first to fly non stop to Tokyo from Western-Europe, were among the first ones to start business in China etc.
34 Post contains images UpperDeck79 : And why would EK want to do that...? That might qualify, yes. I had the impression they used years to make that happen...? Yes, they were the first b
35 Post contains links Andaman : Quoting UpperDeck79 (Reply 34): I had the impression they used years to make that happen...? Yes, they were the first but it didn't happen quickly, I
36 Post contains images EFHK : Get codeshares to ARN, OSL, GOT, LED, and TLL? I see what you mean, my point was that usually new long-haul routes have been announced about a year b
37 Post contains images Andaman : Sometimes you just have to act a bit faster And I suppose not much harm done. I was planning an AY flight to KUL myself though...
38 Post contains images EFHK : And I was planning to fly the flight in FS!
39 Post contains images UpperDeck79 : Those would require TWO code-share flights - wouldn't it be much better for EK to code-share from one of there European destinations on another carri
40 Jfr : Anybody know if axing the BKK turns is in any way related to the airport's other troubles?
41 Andaman : No, I don't believe so. BKK is very important to AY and it is one of the big (European) boys there, even without connections to SIN and KUL.
42 Post contains images EFHK : As an aviation enthusiast I'd suggest a combined service, maybe 2 weekly for AY, 2 weekly for EK.   Frankly, it's quite unprobable. Finnair's own st
43 DTWAGENT : Why are they droping the BKK and KUL routes? I thought they where flying full planes on these routes? Chuck
44 Post contains images OHLHD : BKK will not be dropped. KUL has never started! BKK is looking good but KUL... never started
45 Post contains images UpperDeck79 : One can always dream. Sounds awesome! And what time did you say the dinner is served tomorrow?
46 Post contains images EFHK : Hmmm, I'm not sure, depends on the winds!  Of course there are restrictions with cloud layers and fog to see anything, they aren't that low yet here
47 Post contains links and images UpperDeck79 : India Times is reporting that there are plans to have BOM as a daily flight by the year's end. Is that in any way possible without decreasing BKK heav
48 Post contains images EFHK : They might consider decreasing China or Japan a bit again. Well, when I became interested in aviation some five years ago it was a nice surprise to s
49 HB-IWC : Two things here: first, it is likely that AY is aiming for further growth in India, which is, according to the current Bilateral Air Services Agreeme
50 Post contains images UpperDeck79 : Or maybe TG is coming to HEL and AY doesn't have to do twice daily BKK flights next winter...
51 Post contains images Kevin777 : True, if you're coming in from Scandinavia - but my impression is that AY also is going heavily for, for instance, the UK market, as well as connecti
52 Cricket : Heck, I know Nokia takes up quite a few seats on every AY flight between DEL and HEL. AY is competing on the other seats essentially with OS - becomin
53 Kevin777 : TG talked about doing BKK-CDG-HEL a few months back, but don't know what happened with that. I think it sounds stupid, but BKK-HEL nonstop, five week
54 CXA330300 : A bit early to predict, but: KLM recently started a route to CTU and apparently it's been quite a success. Would AY start a route to CTU later on?
55 UpperDeck79 : AY has hinted that they are studying CTU and WUH (Wuhan) in addition to others. I'd love to see AY as the first European carrier in WUH. CKG (Chongqi
56 LordHowe : This would be great! Regards, LordHowe
57 UpperDeck79 : I wonder if AY will reshuffle the European schedules for the summer, since it seems that ONLY Scandinavian and Baltic flights will have decent connec
58 LordHowe : AY is acting pretty fast - they have already taken away from amadeus.net all their late night departures (the planned AY93/97) to BKK. But the same fl
59 Post contains links and images UpperDeck79 : OMG, one weird site this is: http://viahelsinki.com/ Just click the mug holding the pens and find out...
60 Killjoy : The point is valid, but wtf didn't they use a more convincing actor and a less stupid script.
61 Post contains images Andaman : One weird site indeed.. if it is ment to show the benefits flying via HEL, why it gives shorter flying times via London, like when flying for example
62 UpperDeck79 : Now, officially, there will be twice daily flights to BKK starting from Dec 15: AY093 HEL-BKK16:10-06:55+1 M11 AY095 HEL-BKK 20:00-10:45+1 M11 AY094
63 LordHowe : Looks good - the schedules! I always hated the midnight departure from HEL. The AY93 will probably be the one to connect with QF to Australia. So the
64 HB-IWC : Both flights operate with daylight return sectors, which is not very conducive in attracting premium traffic. On the other hand, I don't think that A
65 Nickofatlanta : None of those flights connect very well with QF or BA to Australia. BA/QF flights from SYD to BKK both arrive at about 11pm whilst the flights back t
66 Andaman : I don't know about there biz class but filling two daily departures HEL-BKK otherwise will not be any problem, like it haven't been this winter. Thei
67 Planemanofnz : Does AY honestly fly to Goa using 752's? Does anyone have any more details about these flights?
68 LordHowe : So, apparently there is no QF morning departure BKK-SYD - as there has (once) been. Then the connectivity is really bad. I'm not sure about AY, but A
69 Andaman : Yes, Finnair has a weekly 752 charter there. Flying time is 10h - 10.45h, with a stop in Sharjah. AY 1945 HEL-GOI 20.35-10.00 AY 1946 GOI-HEL 11.15-1
70 LordHowe : When exactly is AY97/98 HEL-SIN-HEL going to end? AY still has schedules in November for it. The HKG nonstop daily seems only to last over summer till
71 ClassicLover : I thought it was finishing in May... I'm booked on it in April in Business, looking forward to it. Very cheap I class fare SIN-BKK-HEL-LHR. Long flig
72 Post contains images Andaman : It seems AY is competing with prize in Asia at least in biz class, in Nov I had a very good deal BKK-HKG-BKK. Good if they will have two daily depart
73 Post contains images LordHowe : Wouldn' that be something! But we would still have to wait a while for that contract to happen, wouldn't we ... Regards, LordHowe
74 Post contains images Andaman : Dreaming is free ... and perhaps they could keep the A380 in mind at HEL, building the long haul terminal expansion...
75 UpperDeck79 : Unlike announced earlier, Finnair.com is now showing the flight 5 times per week every other week, 4 times a week on the other weeks.
76 Post contains images Kevin777 : Hmmm... you think this is a worrying sign?? After all, could be that they reduce capacity to start with as they are starting up in the low season...
77 LordHowe : Actually HEL-BOM is shown every week five times a week (SuMoTuWeTh) - but there is no BOM-HEL flight on tuesdays every other week? Where is AY29 goin
78 UpperDeck79 : I would think it's only to secure maintenance brakes, since the 3 A340s will be used to fly PVG daily, NRT 4pw, NGO 3pw (+1 with M11) and now BOM 4/5
79 LordHowe : PVG daily = A340 Nr 1. NRT 4pw, NGO 3pw = A340 Nr. 2 BOM 4/5 pw = A340 Nr. 3 So one is then practically grounded every week two days - do they need t
80 LordHowe : The last flight HEL-BKK-SIN seems to be on Tuesday May 15th - and the last one back SIN-BKK-HEL on the next evening May 16th. I wonder when SIN is goi
81 UpperDeck79 : Depends on where you look: the PDF timetables are showing Mon or Tue outbound missing every other week as well as the inbound back on Tue/Wed. That g
82 Post contains images Kevin777 : To Goa for crew rest... I could definitely see a nonstop 3-4 x weekly in the near future - I'd much rather see that than BOM 5x weekly (from an econo
83 Post contains images LordHowe : It was a question - I just wondered ... - and HYP*) to you too! I still believe it is a crew working hours matter. It would mean an almost 13 hour fl
84 Post contains images WSOY : Its actually: "Hyvää ystävänpäivää". The rules of English do not apply to Finnish, not yet, at least. Moreover, the meaning of the phrase chan
85 Post contains images LordHowe : - just trying to show where the letters come from ... and HYP to you too! LordHowe
86 WSOY : There can be no "HYP" in Finnish, just "HY". Sorry, but my training makes me do this.
87 OkAY : It has to be HYP, although ystävänpäivä is a yhydyssana, compound word. No one would understand if it was HY. This is slang (such abreviations) a
88 Post contains images Andaman : ...does it tell something about us Finns that we have changed the Valentines Day to some kind of 'Friendship Day', the romance part cut off Back to t
89 HB-IWC : For starters, there is no MD11 service to NGO - all 4 weekly services are planned with A343 right now, which makes for 19 or 20 A343 rotations depend
90 Post contains images UpperDeck79 : That explains your profile name. I love the Finnish grammar, btw! It's not the Finns to be blamed, it's the Post Office, believe it or not! They laun
91 Post contains images LordHowe : Actually this was what I meant with my remark - I was trying to be - obviously not with a very good result ... AY has been using their long-haul flee
92 UpperDeck79 : Nope, no need to dedicate two airframes for DEL/JFK since there are 3 days in the week when 1 of the MD-11s is not going anywhere from HEL. The next
93 HB-IWC : As already said by someone else, there are 3 days of the week when one of the MD11s is grounded at HEL, so on those days an aircraft change is possib
94 EFHK : I hope not soon. The oldest, OH-LGA just had a D-check. Also they're going to need them for sure. I will also miss SIN, and hope a nonstop service wo
95 HB-IWC : A SIN nonstop would be perfectly possible by having it leave from the 17.00 departure bank - together with HKG, KIX and others - and getting it back
96 EFHK : You're correct about the arrival, it's just that not all flights have connections then. However, AY has been increasing flights departing around 8pm,
97 UpperDeck79 : The utilization rates for next summer are very, very high already. But yeah, if the 18:00 arrival banks grows a bit (more European connections), that
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