Jmc1975 From Israel, joined Sep 2000, 3162 posts, RR: 17 Posted (6 years 4 months 4 days 12 hours ago) and read 6246 times:
This should come as a breath of fresh air for those skeptics of a US/DL merger. It only makes since to take advantage of the synergies at hand, as it creates a secure airline (and industry) that benefits consumers, employees, shareholders and local economies.
AirframeAS From United States of America, joined Feb 2004, 14150 posts, RR: 26 Reply 1, posted (6 years 4 months 4 days 12 hours ago) and read 6233 times:
Bucky707 From United States of America, joined Aug 2000, 1028 posts, RR: 4 Reply 3, posted (6 years 4 months 4 days 12 hours ago) and read 6165 times:
Quoting Jmc1975 (Thread starter): This should come as a breath of fresh air for those skeptics of a US/DL merger.
Parker said he would not pursue a merger if DL management was against it. He backed off that statement the next day. He later said he would not raise his offer for Delta. Well, he lied there too.
Why would you believe anything they say? Do you really think, a day or two before congress has hearings on mergers, that USAir would say anything to add more fuel to the fire?
AirframeAS From United States of America, joined Feb 2004, 14150 posts, RR: 26 Reply 4, posted (6 years 4 months 4 days 12 hours ago) and read 6139 times:
Analog From United States of America, joined Jul 2006, 1900 posts, RR: 1 Reply 5, posted (6 years 4 months 4 days 11 hours ago) and read 6025 times:
The way I read it is that they are promising to keep service to cities that are currently served by BOTH DL and US. (does that include Express carriers?)
The intersection, not the union.
Am I right or nuts?
From the article:
Quote: the combined carrier would continue to fly to every city that both airlines currently serve.
SLCUT2777 From United States of America, joined Dec 2005, 3861 posts, RR: 11 Reply 6, posted (6 years 4 months 4 days 11 hours ago) and read 5967 times:
Quoting Jmc1975 (Thread starter): This should come as a breath of fresh air for those skeptics of a US/DL merger. It only makes since to take advantage of the synergies at hand, as it creates a secure airline (and industry) that benefits consumers, employees, shareholders and local economies.
It still doesn't make sense. I only see a financially insecure airline that is slashing costs and eliminating cities simply to get out form under roughly $25 Billion (USD) in debt, and satisfy DOJ regulators on anti-trust issues. This is still an incredibly risky proposal that as each day goes by I see less and less likelihood of reaching fruition thankfully.
Parker's idea 21 months ago to acquire a soon to be liquidated US into HP was very smart, and the right move. Don't get me wrong I applaud him for it. It doesn't however mean that he is the right solution for DL by any means. He knows he needs to eliminate competition domestically from DL and acquire their international network and a/c to survive, and it is obvious in appearance to the DL creditors that he needs DL more than DL needs HP/US, and if they feel a merger is needed for DL, NW is a much better option as both emerge from Chapter 11. Don't drink the snake-oil offered by HP/US is my advice!
DELTA Air Lines; The Only Way To Fly from Salt Lake City; Let the Western Heritage always be with Delta!
Analog From United States of America, joined Jul 2006, 1900 posts, RR: 1 Reply 8, posted (6 years 4 months 4 days 11 hours ago) and read 5939 times:
Quoting Whappeh (Reply 7): I feel the same way. I'm pretty neutral towards this merger, but I find it nearly impossible that they won't have to cut some cities.
Where did Parker (or other US) they say that they won't cut cities? Serious question, did he say that?
Whappeh From United States of America, joined Mar 2006, 1560 posts, RR: 2 Reply 9, posted (6 years 4 months 4 days 11 hours ago) and read 5921 times:
Quoting Analog (Reply 8): Where did Parker (or other US) they say that they won't cut cities? Serious question, did he say that?
That is a good point, since in technicality their Regional carriers aren't part of the Delta/US Airways network. Only Doug knows the answer to that for sure, because as far as I know he hasn't said anything about that.
Positiverate From United States of America, joined May 2005, 1590 posts, RR: 9 Reply 13, posted (6 years 4 months 4 days 11 hours ago) and read 5884 times:
Quoting Jmc1975 (Thread starter): It only makes since to take advantage of the synergies at hand, as it creates a secure airline (and industry) that benefits consumers, employees, shareholders and local economies.
Do they provide those talking points for you to read, or do they rely on you to come up with them on their own?
Seriously though, which synergies are you talking about? Everyone tyhrows around the word "synergy", but no one can explain what the specific "synergies" in this merger are.
Analog From United States of America, joined Jul 2006, 1900 posts, RR: 1 Reply 14, posted (6 years 4 months 4 days 10 hours ago) and read 5851 times:
Quoting MAH4546 (Reply 11): They left out the * after that statement. Here it is:
*In the first 30 days of combined operation.
If the way I read his statement is correct (no cities that are now served by both US and DL will be cut), I find it easy to believe. What is likely, however, is that cities with DL service to ATL or SLC and US service to PHL, CLT, PHX, or LAS will have service cut to just one hub.
In some of these cities DL + US will have such a large percentage of the market the the DOJ will probably require that some routes be cut (like the shuttles).
Now as to cities served by only DL or only US; they'll definitely cut some of those.
Positiverate From United States of America, joined May 2005, 1590 posts, RR: 9 Reply 15, posted (6 years 4 months 4 days 10 hours ago) and read 5779 times:
Quoting Analog (Reply 14): If the way I read his statement is correct (no cities that are now served by both US and DL will be cut), I find it easy to believe. What is likely, however, is that cities with DL service to ATL or SLC and US service to PHL, CLT, PHX, or LAS will have service cut to just one hub.
Take a city like MGM. DL flies 7 flights a day to ATL, and 1 daily flgiht to CVG.US flies 3 flights a day to CLT. Does anyone really think that a combined US/DL will offer 11 daily flights to anywhere out of MGM? Not likely. How about a city like AGS? DL has 6 daily to ATL, US has 6 daily to CLT (btw the only two scheduled carriers to AGS). Does anyone really think a combined US/DL, who will ahve the monopoly on the market, will offer 12 flights a day?
Analog From United States of America, joined Jul 2006, 1900 posts, RR: 1 Reply 17, posted (6 years 4 months 4 days 10 hours ago) and read 5728 times:
Quoting Positiverate (Reply 15): Take a city like MGM. DL flies 7 flights a day to ATL, and 1 daily flgiht to CVG.US flies 3 flights a day to CLT. Does anyone really think that a combined US/DL will offer 11 daily flights to anywhere out of MGM?
No. That's what I'm saying; we are in agreement. However, they will still fly to MGM. That's all I was really saying before.
Quoting Positiverate (Reply 15): How about a city like AGS? DL has 6 daily to ATL, US has 6 daily to CLT (btw the only two scheduled carriers to AGS). Does anyone really think a combined US/DL, who will ahve the monopoly on the market, will offer 12 flights a day?
No, not even if DL/US wanted to. The DOJ will probably [hopefully?] require that another airline take over one of the two routes, or something like that.
Quoting Positiverate (Reply 15): Quoting Analog (Reply 14):
Am I an idiot? Probably.
RL757PVD From United States of America, joined Dec 1999, 4537 posts, RR: 13 Reply 18, posted (6 years 4 months 4 days 10 hours ago) and read 5728 times:
I dont think anyone doubted that they wouldnt cut cities, heck the vast network is the top "anemity" that a legacy provides in the face of PTVs and etc that LCCs offer on limited networks.
its cities like CAE, AGS, SAV, RDU, and nearly every city in the southeast that will suffer from a dramatic decrease or near complete elimination of competition, as well as capacity reduction with the CLT hub elemination.
Anyone who enjoys comeptitive airfares and schedules in the southeast (and east coast) should be opposed to this merger.
Experience is what you get when what you thought would work out didn't!
DTWAGENT From United States of America, joined Jan 2006, 1283 posts, RR: 0 Reply 19, posted (6 years 4 months 4 days 10 hours ago) and read 5719 times:
AA said this when they mergered with TWA. And look what happened to STL and the employees. US only wants to get its hands on DL so they can have a large transatlantic route system and they would have all the widebodies with out having to buy any. I just don't see how US/DL can work. DL has alot of SR. people on their payroll. US and HP have not been able to take care of that part in that merger. I say let DL stand alone..
Positiverate From United States of America, joined May 2005, 1590 posts, RR: 9 Reply 20, posted (6 years 4 months 4 days 10 hours ago) and read 5655 times:
Quoting Analog (Reply 17): The DOJ will probably [hopefully?] require that another airline take over one of the two routes, or something like that.
DOJ can't force another airline to start service...
Jmc1975 From Israel, joined Sep 2000, 3162 posts, RR: 17 Reply 21, posted (6 years 4 months 4 days 9 hours ago) and read 5618 times:
Quoting Positiverate (Reply 15): How about a city like AGS? DL has 6 daily to ATL, US has 6 daily to CLT (btw the only two scheduled carriers to AGS). Does anyone really think a combined US/DL, who will ahve the monopoly on the market, will offer 12 flights a day?
No, but that's where the beauty of the synergies come into play.
- Maintain similar levels of revenue
- Exploit O&D potential
- Right-price the local market.
- Slash market CASM by cutting redundant service, therefore boosting yields
Once a US/DL monopoly optimizes a market like AGS, it's increase traffic (and success in general) will make it more attractive for leaner competition to enter the market. The consumer wins in the end.
USPIT10L From United States of America, joined Mar 2006, 3266 posts, RR: 8 Reply 22, posted (6 years 4 months 4 days 9 hours ago) and read 5584 times:
Quoting Jmc1975 (Reply 21): Once a US/DL monopoly optimizes a market like AGS, it's increase traffic (and success in general) will make it more attractive for leaner competition to enter the market. The consumer wins in the end.
You have a valid point, but I'm afraid the Delta people on here have already made up their minds. I'm staying off the subject from now on. Reason doesn't exist with these people.
LAXdude1023 From Lebanon, joined Sep 2006, 6780 posts, RR: 25 Reply 23, posted (6 years 4 months 4 days 9 hours ago) and read 5527 times:
Quoting USPIT10L (Reply 22): Reason doesn't exist with these people.
I dont think thats right. Some people might be emotional about the situation, but to say that ALL of these people dont have reason is not right. They have just as much reason as you or anyone else here.
Quoting DTWAGENT (Reply 19): AA said this when they mergered with TWA. And look what happened to STL and the employees.
I think most people can agree that talk is cheap in a situation like this. Its similar to politicians promising everything and delivering not much (which they seem to do frequently). The trouble is that no one really knows what these guys are really thinking. Anybody in their shoes will have to sugar-coat the situation to prevent backlash. I for one dont know who to trust in this situation.
DFW Fan Boy: Im crude, irreverent, and blunt, but Im not clueless. I offer no apologies.
DeltaL1011man From United States of America, joined Sep 2005, 8590 posts, RR: 8 Reply 24, posted (6 years 4 months 4 days 9 hours ago) and read 5488 times:
wow i can smell the crap come from Parker's mouth all the way in ATL!!!
"Oh look at the sUGAr falling out of the sky! Look at the sUGAr falling out of the sky!" LM 1922-2011 Go Dawgs! G.A.T.A.
25 ScottB: I don't think many of the "skeptics of a US/DL merger" argued that cities would be cut; rather, it was argued that many smaller cities would see sign
26 Tango-Bravo: Excellent, 100% correct translation of U.S. legacy airline-speak!
27 Gigneil: Well what the hell else would he say? Not much of a poker player if you tell everyone your hand. NS
28 Bobnwa: Too many of you are confusing cutting flight with cutting cities. I do believe that no cities will be cut, but routes and flights will be cut. Two di
30 Jmc1975: The ad mentions the reduction of flights in New York, Washington and other East Coast markets. I don't know if they're missing something, but that's
31 DeltaGuy: Reduction in flights also means less choices for customers, as well as less overall airline choices. Great looking ad, perhaps the general public will
32 DeltaGuy: "Customers in those cities will have convenient service to a broader range of destinations on one airline, in one frequent flyer program," Parker said
33 Jmc1975: Not really. It's a reduction of redundant flights that would have either gone out with empty seats or lower yields. The higher yields in the industry
34 LawnDart: And this should come as a breath of fresh air for those skeptical of a US/DL merger for reasons other than the original post intended . Fair Use excer
35 OA412: Actually, I believe that both will happen after the merger.
36 Flyusairways: You know, I'm all for the success of US Airways, but I take this statement with a grain of salt. How the heck would frequencies, routes, and jobs not
37 LAXdude1023: I totally agree. Im not anti-consolidation, but I have never been for this one, because its a horrible deal for the many employees of DL and the flyi
38 Analog: True, but they can "encourage" US/DL to divest certain routes (the one of the DCA, LGA, BOS shuttles) to avoid antitrust litigation problems.
39 Steeler83: If PIT is one of the cities to have reduction, that will not be win-win. The only thing to be reduced in PIT anymore is the amount of air If anything
40 ScottB: Again, Higher Yields = Higher Fares And higher fares mean higher costs for businesses in small towns, making them less competitive. They damage the t
41 Jmc1975: Exactly! That's why this merger makes sense. Up until now, DL and US (prior to HP merger) have basically raped the small communities with astronomica
42 Silentbob: " target=_blank>http://www.azcentral.com/business/ar....html The skeptics will not be sated by anything that is said or done by US or Doug Parker. Don
43 ScottB: I've got a news flash for ya bud...US is STILL raping passengers in small, captive markets. The walk-up coach fare for BTV-PHL is an unconscionable $
44 Jmc1975: You get the idea.....fyi, the US/HP team hasn't worked on BTV yet, but they will in time. For a better example, look at TYS, CHA, HSV, CRW, MDT. True
45 USPIT10L: The DOJ concerns would focus around DCA, BOS, and LGA. PIT has no antitrust concerns, there are no significant competitors for US or DL there.
46 FlyPNS1: And DL's SimpliFares was a dismal failure, in part because they rolled it out too fast and it created a shock to DL's revenue stream....helping contr
47 HPRamper: "Synergies" is an extremely vague term that most of us still can't define, but I can't argue that they are real. Somehow with HP and US, one carrier
48 DeltaGuy: I wouldn't bet the farm on that for too much longer. They still have sizable debt, and with their 'ambitions' of absorbing DL being paid for by sever
49 STT757: US/DL would obviously have to give up slots, gates at BOS, DCA and LGA. That's a good thing as it gives carriers with weaker presences in those market
50 SLCUT2777: Problem is that Mr Parker says he can make all the reductions without taking anyone's job, and merely reduce capacity by 10%. That is fuzzy math if I
51 Positiverate: This is hysterical. So let me get this right: your argument is that less competition (and in some cases monopolistic competition) is BETTER for the c
52 Boeing7E7: LOOK EVERYONE! IT'S A BIRD, IT'S A PLANE, IT'S!!!!! Note to Kool-Aid fans. No doubt the cities will remain, but they will al
53 Positiverate: I presume you were making a reference to their socioeconomic status with that comment. In other words, such vigorous competition has driven prices so
54 DeltaGuy: Seriously- any educated person who's taken an economics course, particularly a microeconomics course, would know that the reduction of choices will h
55 SlcDeltaRUmd11: Didnt AA say the same thing when they got TWA?? now look at St Louis Why would they give up these precious slots???? These are some of the airlines be
56 Boeing7E7: Actually, they could potentially drop SLC, LAS and PHX in favor of the new no weather issue Ivanpah Airport outside of Vegas in 2017. Massive O&D and
57 CasInterest: In the short term it is worse for the consumer. but in the long term it is better. If US/Delta starts making too much money on a route, some other ai
58 Boeing7E7: DL can make money on routes a low cost carrier cannot. These small markets are the ones that will be hit. There will be no-one to "move in".
59 Steeler83: Ok, so one is saying that PIT would not be affected by any cuts, while the other one says that more cuts would be in PIT's future. If I hadn't read r
60 EXAAUADL: I dont see them cutting cities, but they will cancel routes and frequencies.
61 EXAAUADL: Youre dreaming if you think a US/DL combination will result in lower fares.
62 PHLBOS: As one whose home airport is PHL; US still charges outrageous fares to cities that have no competition. Price a PHL-BUF or a PHL-ERI itinerary (where
63 ScottB: Actually, Delta reported improved revenues for the three quarters after rolling out SimpliFares. While passenger RASM declined by about 3% year-over-
64 Tango-Bravo: Interestingly, in the not-so-distant past at a focus group meeting at the airline by whom I am employed... The issue of fare rationalization/simplifi
65 Jmc1975: And it's amazing how many people throw around that word and truly lack the essence of the word's meaning. Yes....but I'm speaking long-term...not sho
66 AirframeAS: Hence as to why its almost a ghost town after TWA. Keyword: ALMOST.
67 Delta787: If the industry has to much capacity, why are the airlines posting record load factors and raising fares daily is seems.
68 CentPIT: Although their website does say that PIT is at 144 daily flights, I can pull up 160? I don't know if the 144 is just an average of all 7 days of the
69 Tango-Bravo: Which, if/when it happens, will cause re-regulation to become an unavoidable issue; an opportunity to gain political capital that will not be missed
70 Jmc1975: Until the overall airline sector can establish a 10 percent profit margin on a consistent basis, there is industry capacity that needs to be right-si
71 ScottB: Perhaps that will happen when Southwest is the only domestic airline; they posted an operating margin of 11.4% for 2006. They must be the ones who ar
72 Jmc1975: You are partially right. Yes, Southwest is the primary carrier which has consistently right-sized and right-priced their markets, and it is reflected
73 Bucky707: the problem is the industry will never have a consistant 10% profit margin. It is too easy to start an airline, and new airlines consistantly pay way
74 Boeing7E7: That is a function of price being charged, not a function of overcapacity. The industry has the highest load factors in history, they just aren't cha
75 Mkirch72: Quit deluding yourself. They may not leave a city all together, but where they overlap there will be cutbacks and there will be layoffs.
76 Jmc1975: Yes, it is a huge problem. The US/DL proposal is drastic measure, but a step in the right direction to help curb the momentum of this problematic ind
78 Jmc1975: How can you say that? It's been probably gutsiest and most drastic measure in the airline industry in history.
79 Boeing7E7: Also the stupidest, second only to the previous over expansion done by USAir.
80 FlyPNS1: But how long will this last? Just because the airlines are TEMPORARILY making money and raising fares, doesn't mean there isn't overcapacity in the l
81 Boeing7E7: Actually, the present price structure indicates the converse is true. Too much LCC capacity and not enough legacy capacity.
82 Steeler83: Somehow, cutting off my right arm seems more reasonable that those fares! Then I have no idea where 144 came from. It came up in another thread and I
83 LawnDart: Waaiit a second...didn't you previously complain about DL and US "having their way" with small communities? Why, yes, you did: So I'm confused... ...
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