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Check Out These Expansion Plans For Ymx!  
User currently offlineNoise From United States of America, joined Dec 1999, 1855 posts, RR: 4
Posted (14 years 1 month 2 weeks 20 hours ago) and read 2716 times:

Wow, take a look at those expansion plans for Montreal-Mirabel International Airport. They are great!!!

Here is the link; http://www.egroups.com/files/Montrealairports/MIRABEL%27S+FUTUR+PLANS%21.gif

Sorry, I know this is in french, but I'll clarify a few things. These are the original plans from 1975, when the airport was built. The current terminal is phase 1 of the airport, and then they will add the rest of the airport when the current terminal receives over 10 million passengers a year. The current airport is in white, and the futur expansion plans are in grey. As you can see, there will be an addition of 4 runways, and an extention of runway 06-24. It seems they will also be adding 5 more terminals, with a total of 6. Man, thses plans will kick Toronto's ass!

Of course, all this will happen when all flights move from Dorval Airport to Mirabel Airport.

So, what do you think of these plans.

37 replies: All unread, showing first 25:
 
User currently offlineAC183 From Canada, joined Jul 1999, 1532 posts, RR: 2
Reply 1, posted (14 years 1 month 2 weeks 18 hours ago) and read 2586 times:

Those plans are about 30 years old. Times change. Chances are that even if Mirabel was expanded (which I can't see anytime in the near future) they would come up with some different plans to do it.

User currently offlineSlawko From Canada, joined May 1999, 3799 posts, RR: 9
Reply 2, posted (14 years 1 month 2 weeks 18 hours ago) and read 2569 times:

HEHEHEHE Nice, well it is interesting to see the history. Looks like the feds had plans to build as many runways as the GTAA plans for YYZ. I doubt that that will ever happen, Montreal Airports Authority is focusing in epansion and renovation of YUL, the only expansion YMZ is seeing is the new Bombardier plant.

Why have all those runways??? and if you are going to expand everything else why not build more terminal buildings???

Ah the Trudeau days........Airports is something that he will not be remembered fondly for.......



"Clive Beddoe says he favours competition, but his actions do not support that idea." Robert Milton - CEO Air Canada
User currently offlineSlawko From Canada, joined May 1999, 3799 posts, RR: 9
Reply 3, posted (14 years 1 month 2 weeks 17 hours ago) and read 2560 times:

Sorry my bad, did not notice the "Futures Aerogares" part on the picture. Man that is a lot of buildings!!!


"Clive Beddoe says he favours competition, but his actions do not support that idea." Robert Milton - CEO Air Canada
User currently offlineCtbarnes From United States of America, joined Mar 2000, 3491 posts, RR: 50
Reply 4, posted (14 years 1 month 2 weeks 17 hours ago) and read 2561 times:

It seems odd that Montreal would expand Mirabel despite the fact that they recently consolodated their domestic and international operations to Dorval.

For years Mirabel was the hub for all long-haul flights, while Dorval was the domestic hub. This made it virtually impossible to connect from an international to a domestic flight and v.v. as the two airports are a long way apart from each other, and thus making it impossible for Montreal to act as a connection hub with everything that implies.

Right now, Mirabel is used for charters. If, sometime in the future, passenger numbers expand to the point that Dorval can no longer expand, then and only then do I see airport authorities dusting off the development plans for YMX.

Charles



The customer isn't a moron, she is your wife -David Ogilvy
User currently offlineBuff From Australia, joined Mar 2007, 0 posts, RR: 1
Reply 5, posted (14 years 1 month 2 weeks 12 hours ago) and read 2544 times:

Mirabel is nearly dead. Those plans are quite dead. A few years ago, where all international flights HAD to use YMX, they were allowed back to Dorval (YUL). Presently, CMM and AT and some Royal flights are the primary customers at YMX. Few if any other carriers use the field.

With regards the "expansion plans", many farmers were expropriated in the early 1970's to allow for what you saw in those plans. About 5 years ago, the federal government officially gave up those plans and offered to sell all the expropriated land back to original owners.

I doubt if there will be any plans to expand this airport in the next twenty years, if it stays open at all.

Nice try in psyching us all out!

Best Regards,

Buff


User currently offlineNoise From United States of America, joined Dec 1999, 1855 posts, RR: 4
Reply 6, posted (14 years 1 month 1 week 6 days 23 hours ago) and read 2524 times:

No, these plans are not dead! These plans still stand. Dorval will not last forever! When all flights move back to Mirabel, this is how it will look like. There might be some minor changes, but this is how it will look like. The land is reserved for those terminals and runways. Nothing can be built on those places. No hange, wharehouses, etc...NOTHING! If you ask the airport authority, they will tell you that that land is reserved for the futur terminals and runways. If you ask Transport Canada, they will tell you the same thing. ADM (Aeroprts de Montreal) owns that land and they will not give it up. Mirabel is the futur for Montreal.

User currently offlineYMQ From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 7, posted (14 years 1 month 1 week 6 days 23 hours ago) and read 2518 times:

These plans are dead. ADM says YUL can grow to accomodate 40M pax a year. Not until this figure is reached -like long after i will have died...or maybe not- will things go back to YMX. Then, you can be pretty sure aviation will have changed enough for ADM to restart from scratch. Otherwise, they'd be morons -which means they would'nt have change.

PS: let's keep these discussions to Dave's board...


User currently offlineSlawko From Canada, joined May 1999, 3799 posts, RR: 9
Reply 8, posted (14 years 1 month 1 week 6 days 22 hours ago) and read 2518 times:

HEHEHE Well Noise can always dream.......if the ADM really wanted to use YMX then why would they have moved all of the international flights to Dorval? It's a dream and nothing more.


"Clive Beddoe says he favours competition, but his actions do not support that idea." Robert Milton - CEO Air Canada
User currently offlinePolaris From Canada, joined Feb 2000, 1145 posts, RR: 1
Reply 9, posted (14 years 1 month 1 week 6 days 21 hours ago) and read 2508 times:

Yes, these are the original plans for the airport circa early 1970s. In its final phase, Mirabel was to have six terminals and six runways. The terminals were to be added at five year intervals over the course of thirty years. Flights would be slowly transferred from Dorval beginning with international flights (as happened), then US flights and domestic long-haul, then domestic short-haul. Dorval was to be gradually phased out or reduced to a local-service airport.

Unfortunately, what could not be foreseen was a global oil crisis (not the current mini crisis), global recession, aircraft that could fly farther, delays in the supersonic aircraft revolution, jurisdictional feuds between federal and provincial governments, etc.

Today, this is just a dream from the 70s.


User currently offlineNoise From United States of America, joined Dec 1999, 1855 posts, RR: 4
Reply 10, posted (14 years 1 month 1 week 6 days 20 hours ago) and read 2502 times:

I'M NOT DREAMING SLAWKO!!! What, your sad that our plans are so much better than you shitty Toronto plans. That we are the fastest growing airport in Canada, and the fastest growing airport in Canada for AC flights, eh! (Toronto is a shitty city, by the way). YYZ sucks, it really does. I have heard comments from poeple saying that "it's crazy and complicated", and "the delays are horrible, there are so many!" A shitty airport for a shitty city.

Why don't you think this won't happen? Dorval is the airport for the present in Montreal, but I must say, YMX is the futur!

Dave, you will not be dead when all flights move back to YMX.(well, propably not. Not a natural death though.) This will propably be in about 20 years or so.

I will try to get some more info. about these plans, to see if they still stand or not.


User currently offlineSlawko From Canada, joined May 1999, 3799 posts, RR: 9
Reply 11, posted (14 years 1 month 1 week 6 days 19 hours ago) and read 2502 times:

HEHEHE I think we have upset the little boy.....you must closer to 5 then 15!

I am not saying anything about Toronto. Just that YMX accodring to the city of Montreal, the Province of Quebec, the Federal government and the AdM YMX is finished.... at least untill pax traffic is large enough that is exceeds the new Dorval's limits..... Go to the AdM website and see for yourself what the AdM has planned for Dorval and Mirabel. The only expansion that it is seeing right now is the Bombardier plant. It is too bad, because YMX is a very nice airport, relativly well planned, and look it ieven worked out when they built the same thing in Edmonton. If it were up to me I would take Dorval down and move everything to YMX, but for that to happen there would have to be an effective and efficient transit system connecting the airport to the city, because as it stands now it is way way to far from Montreal downtown. But unfortunatly this would cost way to much money and the pax numbers to not warrent that right now. So instead the AdM plans to expand and renovate YUL..... It is not a city or airport bashing it is just FACT!!! And I will not even go near your comments about Toronto or LBPIA, because you are acting like a little baby, who is crying about his toy.



"Clive Beddoe says he favours competition, but his actions do not support that idea." Robert Milton - CEO Air Canada
User currently offlineLH423 From Canada, joined Jul 1999, 6501 posts, RR: 54
Reply 12, posted (14 years 1 month 1 week 6 days 19 hours ago) and read 2497 times:

No offence mate (and I hope I don't get a "nice" response like you gave Slawko), but I too don't see much of a future for YMX for LOOOOONG time. I don't pretend to be an expert on Montréal's airports, but as it looks now, Dorval is doing fine handling everything. In one Airways Magazine, AdM was saying that the current plans are to turn YUL into the main air terminal for Montréal, and YMX would become a supplementary airport, handling the cargo (for which a specialised terminal was built), and charter flights, which YMX does now. I'm not saying that somewhere down the road things might be altered, but for the indefinite future, Dorval seems set to remain Montréal, and southern Québec's primary airport. Au Revoir!

LH423



« On ne voit bien qu'avec le cœur. L'essentiel est invisible pour les yeux » Antoine de Saint-Exupéry
User currently offlineC-GRYK From Canada, joined Apr 2000, 751 posts, RR: 36
Reply 13, posted (14 years 1 month 1 week 6 days 19 hours ago) and read 2494 times:

I'm sorry, but you are one of the most childish people this forum has to offer. YMX is not being expanded, YUL won't transfer to YMX so quit dreaming.... and about your Toronto bashing, just grow up, our "shitty Toronto airport for a shitty city" is anything but that even at the moment. The future for Toronto looks very prosperous, along with all of Canada, you just seem to be a pathetic loser who just won't give up why YUL doesn't get more flights/etc than Toronto. YUL is on nowhere near a level playing field as YYZ, nor YVR for that matter so stop going around thinking Montreal is boom town and every future air carrier must serve Montreal and nothing else. You need to grow up, you don't see me calling Montreal a shitty city with a shitty airport, in fact, it would seem you are jealous (for some odd reason, seeing as YMX was built way before your time, I'd reckon like Slawko that you are closer to 5 than 15) for the fact YYZ is Eastern Canada's principal domestic/transborder/international hub whereas YMX is nowhere near that distinction (at least you still have the charters though). I wish you would grow up and accept that there is no competition between the 2 airports and that not everyone in this forum wants to hear your bullshit.

Jeremy



Think before you type!
User currently offlineCaribb From Canada, joined Nov 1999, 1639 posts, RR: 8
Reply 14, posted (14 years 1 month 1 week 6 days 17 hours ago) and read 2488 times:

I have to confirm what everyone else has been saying about those expansion plans.. they are long dead pie in the sky plans..

Many factors killed them, those mentioned and ironically among them the government's own decision to grant direct nonstop landing rights to overseas carriers in Canadian cities other than Montreal thus redirecting traffic past Montreal to Toronto and other cities .. they created the airport then effectively helped killed it leaving two airports in a city that really can not support them even to this day.

As a Montrealer I am once again saddened to see people bash Toronto.. I use YYZ quite often and find it an excellent airport despite the standard delys. I support you guys wholehearedly and I am always pleased to hear of new airlines serving that market. It helps all Canadians as the airport acts as the central airport to the country. I think we Montrealers have to learn to accept the reality that we sleep in the bed we make. We had years to correct the mess of Dorval/Mirabel and we paid a heavy price for leaving it until the 90s to resolve.. As someone above said, we are not a factor, even Vancouver plays a more signiicant role in the Canadian aviation market... this is reality and we must learn to accept it and get on with life by trying to make the best of what we got.. not blame others for our own mistakes.


User currently offlineYHU From Canada, joined Jun 2000, 429 posts, RR: 1
Reply 15, posted (14 years 1 month 1 week 6 days 17 hours ago) and read 2484 times:

Those plans are pretty much dead. There is now a Bombardier facility build over part of it. And ADM did not stop them from building as you say they would. If YMX does expand, it will look diferent than these plans. Anyway, both airports should have diferent owners. That would maybe allow YMX to grow.

Why would someone at YYZ be jealous. They have their own airport growing nicely.


User currently offlineAC183 From Canada, joined Jul 1999, 1532 posts, RR: 2
Reply 16, posted (14 years 1 month 1 week 6 days 16 hours ago) and read 2477 times:

Noise, why would those plans ever be carried through? Reality is that if YMX was ever expanded (and that would be 30 or 40 years from now, at least) then they would never follow the original plans. Just look at they YMX terminal. Nice building, but would they build more like it? Nope. Terminals like YYZ's T-new, or YVR or YYC are what are built now, with jetways mounted on various concourses. YMX's terminal designs used those passenger transfer vehicles. Clearly any terminal expansion wouldn't use them, so those original plans simply will not be followed. YMX's master plan is outdated, and any expansion would be entirely new plans. But like I said, it won't happen for decades.

Slawko, YEG's terminal is really nothing like YMX, although location relative to the city is similar. The reason Edmonton gets by with YEG is in part due to a good highway into the city, although any sort of rapid transit is clearly lacking. But I don't believe YMX even has a proper freeway into Montreal, nevermind a decent rapid transit system.

Interestingly, Toronto nearly had an airport built in the '70's at Pickering, that would have been distant from domestic flights as well. It's a very good thing that didn't ever get built.

Also, one thing about my estimate of 30-40 years on YMX. That's assuming that YHU doesn't see any development. But in my view YHU may well become more of a short haul alternative in the future, because although capital would have to be invested in a new terminal, YHU is in a reasonable location.


User currently offlineSlawko From Canada, joined May 1999, 3799 posts, RR: 9
Reply 17, posted (14 years 1 month 1 week 6 days 8 hours ago) and read 2470 times:

Regarding my comments about Edmonton, I was refering to the fact that the two airports follow the same desgine plans, not in terms of terminal building style but just the layout of the airport. They were built at the same time by the same people (feds).

The pickering plan is not dead in Toronto, the Feds still have a lot of land set aside for a new airport, and the GTAA does have long term plans to use the space. I read something about it a few years ago in teh TO Star. GtAA wants to take over the Island first, rebuild it establish jet service and turn it into a regional hub, then they do have plans for Pickering, from what I have heard it will be able to replace YYZ, but obviously that is at least 30 years down the road.



"Clive Beddoe says he favours competition, but his actions do not support that idea." Robert Milton - CEO Air Canada
User currently offlineNicolaki From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 18, posted (14 years 1 month 1 week 6 days 7 hours ago) and read 2465 times:

Noise: Unfortunatelly I would have to agree with everyone here, I doubt YMX will ever expand again. ADM is absolutelly focused on YUL as their main airport, otherwise they wouldn't build that new int'l terminal. ADM old bitch, Nicole Pageau Goyette litterally stab a knife in the back of YMX with the Bombardier new plant that is being build. Remember tha there is only Air Transat and Royal that are keeping YMX "alive". ANyways I know it is sad to see because everyone really likes YMX as it is a nice airport, but the future is not there. No comment on the YYZ bashing as it is not worth it.

Caribb: Hello, you're from Montreal? Well I didn't know that lol. Do you sometimes go spotting out there at YUL? I do pretty often. Feel free to contact me if you want.

Nicolas - Montreal



User currently offlineC-GRYK From Canada, joined Apr 2000, 751 posts, RR: 36
Reply 19, posted (14 years 1 month 1 week 6 days 4 hours ago) and read 2451 times:

Hey guys,
I couple of years ago, when the issue of the Pickering airport lands was raised again, I heard STRONG reports that it would not become a major commercial airport, rather, Buttonville, Oshawa and all of the other rather large sized g/a fields within I'd say a 30-50 km radius would be closed and Pickering would handle all of the Northeastern/Eastern GTA gen av traffic. Don't know if this is true, but I would think it's better to consolidate ops there rather than build a total new commercial pax airport, I'm not too sure people would be interested in connecting from Malton to Pickering, WAY the other side of Toronto, and I could not envision anything in regards to a high speek link linking the 2 airports. In regards to YTZ, isn't it City Council's choice to have jets on the Island, and from what I've seen, Mel is someone who IMHO would say no just for the residence, even though takeoffs on 24 go right out over water and if he wants noise abatement, he can fly em along the coast for a little while longer... I don't think jets will go to YTZ, although it would be a good idea for the airport to accept jet travel as the future, look at Continental going all jet, and American Eagle being all jet at ORD now, albeit I could not see much commercial traffic due to ramp space rather I could see quite a ton of biz-jet traffic into there. I do think it's time Mel and the city put some money into YTZ and build a new underground tunnel and possible a new terminal seeing as it was designed in the 1930's. Now, what about YDZ, errr..... we'll save that for another post...

Jeremy



Think before you type!
User currently offlineNoise From United States of America, joined Dec 1999, 1855 posts, RR: 4
Reply 20, posted (14 years 1 month 1 week 6 days 4 hours ago) and read 2450 times:

Guys, I never meant that YMX will be expanded, I just thought that I would be nice to have something like this here. No, I am not dreaming and Ì am not a baby. Sorry if I acted like one though. I said if, remember, I said IF flights moved back there, the airport could look like this. That`s all. I only asked for your opinions on this.

Yep, ADM is focussing on YUL and not YMX, that`s for sure!


User currently offlineNicolaki From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 21, posted (14 years 1 month 1 week 6 days 3 hours ago) and read 2443 times:

Noise: Having that said I agree with you, it would be very nice IF it could be, man that thing is as huge as DFW, but will never happen  

Nicolas - Montreal


User currently offlineNicolaki From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 22, posted (14 years 1 month 1 week 6 days 3 hours ago) and read 2437 times:

BTW, if you look on the upper left-hand corner you'll see a small runway labeled "Piste pour ADAC" literally translated as "Runway For (?)ADAC(?)" Anyone knows what is ADAC stands for? thanks

Nicolas - Montreal



User currently offlinePolaris From Canada, joined Feb 2000, 1145 posts, RR: 1
Reply 23, posted (14 years 1 month 1 week 6 days 3 hours ago) and read 2435 times:

Could ADAC mean STOL - short take-off and landing? Anyone know the French translation for STOL?

User currently offlineCaribb From Canada, joined Nov 1999, 1639 posts, RR: 8
Reply 24, posted (14 years 1 month 1 week 6 days 3 hours ago) and read 2429 times:

Nickolaki- Yep I'm from Montreal and yes of course I go splane spotting at the airport. My photos are here online under my name Doug Bull. If you want to go plane spotting one day let me know via e-mail  

25 Post contains images Nicolaki : Caribb: Nice photos you have there! I have a couple (8 in here lol ) It is not always easy to reach out with a 200mm but It's not bad either, anyways
26 Nicolaki : Polaris: It Could be something like " Avion a Decollage et Atterisage C... I don't know what the C could stand for though
27 Noise : Where is the best place for spotting at YUL??? I got to a few places, but I would like to know where you guys go, and what you think of those places.
28 LH423 : I'm no where near fluent in French that well, but could the "c" mean "court(e)"? LH423
29 Polaris : Nicolaki: How about "courtes" for short? ADAC - Avions a Decollages et Atterisages Courtes?
30 Post contains images Nicolaki : "Avion a Decollage et Atterissage Court" Yep I think it obviously does make a lot of sense! thanks guys for helping me to try to find it! Noise: There
31 YHU : Best spotting places depends on what runway you want to be near. 24L/06R is probably 55th Avenue. 24R is Pittfield Rd. and 06L is the hill at the side
32 Samurai 777 : Mirabel's runway layout at present does resemble YEG's, but the similarity is only coincidental - runways have to be aligned in accordance to prevaili
33 Buff : Gentlemen & Ladies: Now that everyone is friends again, I'll put in another 2 cents worth. When Mirabel was conceived, it was to be one of many Super-
34 Louis : I find it interesting that thirty years ago, Logan, Dorval and Pearson airports all handled the same amount of pax. All three cities were roughly the
35 Caribb : Louis: There are many reasons for Montreal's slow growth. One of the key ones is the government used to designate Dorval as an entry point into Easter
36 Noise : Yep, Montreal hasn't grown as much as Toronto and Boston did in the past 20 years but finally, things are picking up here. The economy is booming and
37 LH423 : Boston is marginally bigger than Montréal. Boston's population is about 3.5-4.0 million people, the US's eighth largest metropolitan centre. This doe
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