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Stop The CV-880 Scrapping...Please  
User currently offlineRikkus67 From Canada, joined Jun 2000, 1623 posts, RR: 1
Posted (7 years 6 months 2 days 21 hours ago) and read 4137 times:

HELP! Why are we letting yet another historic aircraft type go down the tubes? Recently on eBay, the club that was trying to restore one of the last remaining Convair 880's put TWO of the planes up for auction with parts and type certificates. The auction ended yesterday (JAn.21st) with no bids... I imagine there was little notice that this auction was going to take happen in the first place (there was a thread previously showing this auction).....

http://cgi.ebay.com/ebaymotors/ws/eB...viewitem=&item=170069777365&rd=1,1

(copy and paste the link into your browser)

The aircraft are now due to be scrapped withih the next three weeks...

How the F%#$ can we watch this happen?! OK, call me a romantic, but this is a travesty to aviation history...

SOMEONE...ANYONE...STOP THIS!!!

broken hearted in Calgary, Alberta

Rik (rikkus67)


AC.WA.CP.DL.RW.CO.WG.WJ.WN.KI.FL.SK.ACL.UA.US.F9
46 replies: All unread, showing first 25:
 
User currently offlineSolnabo From Sweden, joined Jan 2008, 850 posts, RR: 2
Reply 1, posted (7 years 6 months 2 days 19 hours ago) and read 4059 times:

Quoting Rikkus67 (Thread starter):

 checkmark   checkmark   checkmark 

Micke//  Sad



Airbus SAS - Love them both
User currently offlineSEPilot From United States of America, joined Dec 2006, 6821 posts, RR: 46
Reply 2, posted (7 years 6 months 2 days 17 hours ago) and read 3969 times:

It is sad, but the simple fact is that it costs money to restore & maintain old aircraft, and while the CV-880 was an interesting plane it did not significantly affect aviation; while it was faster than others it was not by a wide enough margin to be significant and it was never commercially successful. That being said it is not surprising that no one is willing to put up the money to preserve it.


The problem with making things foolproof is that fools are so doggone ingenious...Dan Keebler
User currently offlineImperialEagle From United States of America, joined Jan 2006, 2483 posts, RR: 23
Reply 3, posted (7 years 6 months 2 days 15 hours ago) and read 3847 times:
Support Airliners.net - become a First Class Member!

Its not like 'ya could just throw it on the back of the old pick-up truck and bring it home. AND even if you could there is always the local "code-enforcement" to contend with. (The neighbors may not be too enthusiastic.)

In any event, there has been a lot of time for these things to go to museums, etc.

Also, when it comes down to it, there are much more worthy causes in the world today:
Developing a cure for HIV/Aids
Feeding the starving children and people of the world.
Getting the poor and starving immunized.
Eradicate land mines.
Provide education in third-world countries.
Hospitals for the sick and infirm.
And the list goes on and on.

As much as we love them they are, after all, just machines.

 twocents 



"If everything seems under control, you're just not going fast enough!"
User currently offlineKPDX From United States of America, joined Dec 2005, 2726 posts, RR: 2
Reply 4, posted (7 years 6 months 2 days 13 hours ago) and read 3749 times:

Quote:
Starting bid: US $95,000.00

Alright thats it.

I announce to you!

The Airliners.Net CV-880 Purchase Fund  bigthumbsup   Wink

Quote:
Being offered in the sale:

Convair 880, msn 13, N807AJ jetliner (complete with engines, a beautiful airplane for a museum)

Convair 880, msn 23, N817TW jetliner (aircraft is complete but missing engines and two pylons)

Convair 880, msn 03, N801AJ cockpit (complete cockpit, with history of being a Convair Demonstrator)

All the above are 98% complete of all instrumentation.

There is also a small amount of parts for the CV-880 model

If I had the money Id definetly get it! Big grin

KPDX  Smile



View my aviation videos on Youtube by searching for zildjiandrummr12
User currently offlineUK_Dispatcher From United Arab Emirates, joined Dec 2001, 2589 posts, RR: 30
Reply 5, posted (7 years 6 months 2 days 13 hours ago) and read 3748 times:

It is indeed tragic to see that there are no buyers for these classic jets.

The only way these will be restored and saved is if someone John Travolta gets his cheque book out and donates one of them to a museum. Sadly, there are obviously no aviation fans wealthy enough (and fond enough of the Convair 880) to do this.

Mr Travolta - I appeal to you - please!


User currently onlineMasseyBrown From United States of America, joined Dec 2002, 5363 posts, RR: 7
Reply 6, posted (7 years 6 months 2 days 8 hours ago) and read 3536 times:

General Dynamics could save these planes with the cash they sweep off the floor on Fridays, if they wanted to. I wonder if they have been approached.


I love long German words like 'Freundschaftsbezeigungen'.
User currently offlineTeamAmerica From United States of America, joined Sep 2006, 1761 posts, RR: 23
Reply 7, posted (7 years 6 months 2 days 8 hours ago) and read 3506 times:

Quoting MasseyBrown (Reply 6):
General Dynamics could save these planes with the cash they sweep off the floor on Fridays, if they wanted to. I wonder if they have been approached.

General Dynamics sold the remnants of Convair to Martin Marietta and McDonnell-Douglas back in the early '90s. I don't see why they would have any interest in this.

IIRC the CV880/990 were built at Convair San Diego. I'm not sure of the history of that plant - does it still exist, and if so who owns it now? If there was any interest at all in preserving an 880, I'd expect to find it amongst the people who built the thing.



Failure is not an option; it's an outcome.
User currently onlineMasseyBrown From United States of America, joined Dec 2002, 5363 posts, RR: 7
Reply 8, posted (7 years 6 months 2 days 7 hours ago) and read 3453 times:

Quoting TeamAmerica (Reply 7):
General Dynamics sold the remnants of Convair to Martin Marietta and McDonnell-Douglas back in the early '90s. I don't see why they would have any interest in this

GD, which DID after all build them, could get a lot of cheap publicity if they put one in the Smithsonian at Dulles where millions would see it.



I love long German words like 'Freundschaftsbezeigungen'.
User currently offlineJetJeanes From United States of America, joined Oct 2004, 1430 posts, RR: 1
Reply 9, posted (7 years 6 months 2 days 7 hours ago) and read 3436 times:

I had contacted them about purchaseing the cockpit since they had three items up for sale, but they would not break them apart until after the sale, so each item maybe sold sepratly now,, I have not checked since the bidding was going on

Odd no spell check on here as usual



i can see for 80 miles
User currently offlineTeamAmerica From United States of America, joined Sep 2006, 1761 posts, RR: 23
Reply 10, posted (7 years 6 months 2 days 7 hours ago) and read 3380 times:

Quoting MasseyBrown (Reply 8):
GD, which DID after all build them, could get a lot of cheap publicity if they put one in the Smithsonian at Dulles where millions would see it.

A company that GD used to own built them. GD no longer makes aircraft, so what good would the publicity do them?

I'm looking for an answer to my question above, and if I read correctly it seems that Convair San Diego was purchased by none other than McDonnell-Douglas. That means that the CV880 lineage descends to Boeing, of all things. spin 



Failure is not an option; it's an outcome.
User currently onlineMasseyBrown From United States of America, joined Dec 2002, 5363 posts, RR: 7
Reply 11, posted (7 years 6 months 2 days 6 hours ago) and read 3356 times:

Quoting TeamAmerica (Reply 10):
GD no longer makes aircraft, so what good would the publicity do them?

Make up for the generally bad news about their shipyards.  Smile



I love long German words like 'Freundschaftsbezeigungen'.
User currently offlineKBFIspotter From United States of America, joined May 2005, 729 posts, RR: 1
Reply 12, posted (7 years 6 months 2 days 6 hours ago) and read 3336 times:

Quoting TeamAmerica (Reply 10):
GD no longer makes aircraft, so what good would the publicity do them?

IIRC, GD bought Gulfstream a few years ago. So they are still in the aircraft manufacturing business...

Kris



Proud to be an A&P!!!
User currently offlineTeamAmerica From United States of America, joined Sep 2006, 1761 posts, RR: 23
Reply 13, posted (7 years 6 months 2 days 6 hours ago) and read 3318 times:

Quoting KBFIspotter (Reply 12):
GD bought Gulfstream a few years ago

Yep, I forgot about that. Even so, there isn't any link from Convair to Gulfstream other than that the same conglomerate owned the two at various times.



Failure is not an option; it's an outcome.
User currently offlineBoeing767mech From United States of America, joined Dec 2000, 1025 posts, RR: 3
Reply 14, posted (7 years 6 months 2 days 4 hours ago) and read 3222 times:

The Convair plant in SAN where the 880 was born was thrown down in the 90's

As for museums taking the 880's I have talked to the owner in long emails and phone calls about this and he tell me he has gone to EVERY museum about saving the 880's and no one wants to put up the money to move them. It is typical with the whole 880 restore. Everytime they needed someone to help out with money or even going out and cleaning up the birds*%t off the airplane poeple turned away or just wanted to go out to Mojave and take pictures of all the airplanes out there and not work.

Yes I will be sad to see the 880's being scrapped, I wish I had more time and all the moeny needed to save the 880's myself, but without surpport from the outside there was no way Team Convair was going to be able to save a little piece of aviation history.

And for those who say the 880 didn't play a part in aviation history, try telling that to Alaska Airlines, Delta Airlines, TWA and JAL airlines since the 880 was their first jet airplane.

David



Never under-estimate the predictably of stupidty
User currently offlineTeamAmerica From United States of America, joined Sep 2006, 1761 posts, RR: 23
Reply 15, posted (7 years 6 months 2 days 4 hours ago) and read 3198 times:

Quoting Boeing767mech (Reply 14):
And for those who say the 880 didn't play a part in aviation history, try telling that to Alaska Airlines, Delta Airlines, TWA and JAL airlines since the 880 was their first jet airplane.

Not so sure about this...perhaps you mean it was the first jet they ordered? IIRC Delta launched both the DC-8 and the CV880, with the DC-8 coming into service first. Likewise I'm sure TWA was flying the B707 transatlantic before they received any CV880's. JAL certainly started with the DC-8. As for Alaska Airlines I have no idea what their first jet was.



Failure is not an option; it's an outcome.
User currently offlineTheCheese From United States of America, joined Jun 2004, 206 posts, RR: 0
Reply 16, posted (7 years 6 months 2 days 3 hours ago) and read 3155 times:
Support Airliners.net - become a First Class Member!

Alaska's first jet was indeed a Convair 880 that Charlie Willis got Convair to sell to him at a fire-sale price so that he could browbeat Boeing into selling him 727s.

User currently offlineN231YE From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 17, posted (7 years 6 months 2 days 3 hours ago) and read 3149 times:

I was afraid that this was going to happen  frown 

User currently offlineGhostRider From Pakistan, joined May 2007, 0 posts, RR: 0
Reply 18, posted (7 years 6 months 2 days 3 hours ago) and read 3132 times:

Quoting TeamAmerica (Reply 15):
Quoting Boeing767mech (Reply 14):
And for those who say the 880 didn't play a part in aviation history, try telling that to Alaska Airlines, Delta Airlines, TWA and JAL airlines since the 880 was their first jet airplane.

Not so sure about this...perhaps you mean it was the first jet they ordered? IIRC Delta launched both the DC-8 and the CV880, with the DC-8 coming into service first. Likewise I'm sure TWA was flying the B707 transatlantic before they received any CV880's. JAL certainly started with the DC-8. As for Alaska Airlines I have no idea what their first jet was.

TWA's first jet was in fact the 707, first placed into service for the airline on March 20, 1959 from San Francisco to New York....the 880's were placed into service for TWA in 1960.


User currently offlineAndrewUber From United States of America, joined Jul 2003, 2528 posts, RR: 41
Reply 19, posted (7 years 6 months 2 days 3 hours ago) and read 3132 times:

Quoting KPDX (Reply 4):

I'm in. Put me down for $100.00

Anyone else? With all the members on this site, $95,000 almost seems like an achieveable goal! I personally would kick in quite a bit more if I thought we all had a shot at it.

But then there's airport fees, and God only knows what it would take to get one of these flying...

Drew  wave 



I'd rather shoot BAD_MOTIVE
User currently offlineJetJeanes From United States of America, joined Oct 2004, 1430 posts, RR: 1
Reply 20, posted (7 years 6 months 1 day 23 hours ago) and read 3021 times:

Could be an A netters Aircraft!!!! I had many questions for the man but i only
wanted the cockpit. These can be loaded on a step deck trailer and and 18 wheeler can pull it home. Now moveing the whole plane is another story, the wings and tail need removing and a stepdeck at most is 53 plus 2 ft hang would be about 55 feet long. This is really not a big aircraft. Elvis has a delta 880 someone pulled over here to his house one day and it was on a lowboy trailer but a man road on top of the plane from the airport and would push traffic lights up as it went down the road. Of course from the 70,s that thing is kind of gawdy looking inside. But i can remember that thing taking off and it smoked like it was on fire



i can see for 80 miles
User currently offlineJetJeanes From United States of America, joined Oct 2004, 1430 posts, RR: 1
Reply 21, posted (7 years 6 months 1 day 23 hours ago) and read 3014 times:

according to this post they were haveing troubles in 2003...


Posted Wed Oct 1 2003 18:22:24 UTC+1 (3 years 3 months 3 weeks 4 days 12 hours ago) and read 1091 times:

Looks like the Convair 880 restoration project may be in serious trouble.

According to their website, they need cash quick to pay the rent and tiedown fees.

From the website:
Help Us Pay the Rent!
The East Kern Airport in Mojave has been generous and patient with us as we've tried to generate funds to support the restoration of the Convair 880. However, they are not in the charity business and have started putting greater pressure on us to pay for our tie-down fees, and to pay on time. If we are not able to pay these fees, we will be forced to scrap the aircraft. We have put so much into getting this project off the ground that the thought of losing the plane is devastating to all of us, and I'm sure to all of you who have so many fond memories and personal experiences with this plane.

If they can't pay the rent, how can they expect to get that bird flying? Damn shame if you ask me; I'd have loved to see it fly. Not sure if they can get the donations to make it go...



i can see for 80 miles
User currently offlineUK_Dispatcher From United Arab Emirates, joined Dec 2001, 2589 posts, RR: 30
Reply 22, posted (7 years 6 months 1 day 23 hours ago) and read 3006 times:

Quoting AndrewUber (Reply 19):
I'm in. Put me down for $100.00

Me too - if this is an option.


User currently offlineKPDX From United States of America, joined Dec 2005, 2726 posts, RR: 2
Reply 23, posted (7 years 6 months 1 day 23 hours ago) and read 3006 times:

Quoting AndrewUber (Reply 19):
I'm in. Put me down for $100.00

Me to! Two down, 948 people to go! (If they donate 100 dollars each that is!  )

Quoting AndrewUber (Reply 19):
But then there's airport fees, and God only knows what it would take to get one of these flying...

Put the Convair 880 in front of the Airliners.net server room building for static display!   

KPDX  

[Edited 2007-01-24 05:57:31]


View my aviation videos on Youtube by searching for zildjiandrummr12
User currently offlineIFlyTWA From United States of America, joined Jan 2007, 276 posts, RR: 0
Reply 24, posted (7 years 6 months 1 day 22 hours ago) and read 2947 times:

I'd be in for $1000 if this was really going to help save ship 13. Unfortunetly I doubt there is anything that anyone can do about it now. I believe these are the last two TW Convairs around now. Does anyone know how many 880s are in existence and where they are located?

[Edited 2007-01-24 07:20:31]

[Edited 2007-01-24 07:21:26]

[Edited 2007-01-24 07:21:54]


"To express the excitement of travel" - Eero Saarinen
25 StarGoldLHR : I could put down the whole amount for these two. The problem is, this amount is just the begining. If you were to think about flying this, the figure
26 SEPilot : I didn't say they played no part, I said they only played a small part. Historical preservation can be taken too far; every structure and machine eve
27 Rikkus67 : Knowing the cost of the Convair restoration would be $$$$, it is a shame that if nothing else, a cosmetic refinishing of the exterior could not be com
28 Falstaff : Moving them has got to be a huge expense. It is not like you can just fly them somewhere. Moving a CV-880 isn't like moving a DC-3 or and F-86 or som
29 StarGoldLHR : for a comparision.. The Australian Governement put up $5m US to buy Qantas's first Boeing 707 from Southend, UK, restored it for to fly worthy condit
30 ClassicLover : Oh really, then why did the Government press release say they they had donated $1m Australian? Hmm? However, they did say it took 50,000 man hours, f
31 777236ER : Why the need to restore and celebrate a failure?
32 Post contains images Rikkus67 : Ok everybody... I am playing the national (thrice weekly) lottery tonight, with a $14M CDN jackpot tonight.... wish me luck... Wouldn't it be interest
33 Post contains images TeamAmerica : Would you propose to scrap the last remaining de Havilland Comet 1? Not exactly a success...but it's historic nonetheless. Preservation does not impl
34 WA707atMSP : The SR aircraft, the MHV aircraft, and the Spanish restaurant are all 990s. Only the Elvis aircraft is an 880.
35 777236ER : The Comet 1 was the first commercial jet-powered aircraft. The Convair 880 isn't anything special. The 990 was faster. It was introduced after the 70
36 Stargoldlhr : why doesnt the the guy who owns it, scrap the 990 andthe cockpit and use the money to keep the 880 ? If he's selling because he cannot afford to keep
37 TeamAmerica : I agree with you, except that I would never discourage anyone from making the effort. There is no harm done by saving a CV880. Care to name those 50
38 ClassicLover : By that logic, there should be no VC10s preserved either - and there are several preserved. I for one would hate to not be able to go and see a VC10
39 DH106 : There's a derelict but complete 990 still at Palma, and 2x 990 forward fuselages used for cabin training on the Spanish mainland, but I wasn't aware
40 Prebennorholm : Yes, a Swissair CV990 is on display in beautiful and complete condition at the Verkehrsmuseum (traffic museum) in Luzern. I have seen it there.
41 Post contains links and images David L : Forget flying it! Just having a couple preserved would be great. As is the Swissair 990 in Lucern. I think you're confusing this site with http://www
42 Boeing767mech : There as only about 37 CV-990's built of the remainers there is only 5 airframes intact SN 2,29 in MHV 24 in ELP, 30 in PMI and 12 in Switzerland( in
43 SEPilot : I would consider the HK-1 (which I have seen-quite impressive) historical in the same sense as the world's largest ball of twine. That said, the fact
44 Boeing767mech : Hell they saved a Dassault Mercure for display well almost everyone that flew(only 12 made) and they where nothing more than a french built 737 and th
45 Bennett123 : Suppose we get $100 x 950, what then. David
46 BAGoldEx : You then have a completely useless old plane that you are going to have to pay to store, transport and restore, so that 95k is just a tiny deposit. I
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