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Reversal: AF Expected To Make A Bid For AZ + News  
User currently offlineNycfly75 From Italy, joined Aug 2005, 751 posts, RR: 10
Posted (7 years 6 months 6 days 6 hours ago) and read 3160 times:

http://www.sharewatch.com/story.php?storynumber=302681

Af is expected to make a bid on AZ. Other confirmed bidders include an investment group led by Carlo DeBenedetti and another led by Italian Airline AirOne.

[Edited 2007-01-24 22:32:07]

16 replies: All unread, jump to last
 
User currently offlineAlitalia744 From United States of America, joined Mar 2000, 4742 posts, RR: 45
Reply 1, posted (7 years 6 months 6 days 5 hours ago) and read 3097 times:

great news. here's 1 vote for AF.


Some see lines, others see between the lines.
User currently onlineMaverickM11 From United States of America, joined Apr 2000, 17343 posts, RR: 46
Reply 2, posted (7 years 6 months 6 days 5 hours ago) and read 3055 times:

Quoting Nycfly75 (Thread starter):
Af is expected to make a bid on AZ.

NOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO! Can't they put their money in Eurotunnel instead Silly? Why would anyone in their right mind put any money into AZ? Do they want to relive RK?



E pur si muove -Galileo
User currently offlineAviator27 From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 3, posted (7 years 6 months 6 days 4 hours ago) and read 2985 times:

AF has been widely expected to bid for AZ. Anything suggesting otherwise was pure speculation. AF did a good job when they acquired and turned KL around. Look at what LH did with LX. I know BA wants to make an acquisition also. I think AZ would be served well if they were acquired by AF. I hope it goes through.

User currently offlineUnited777atGU From United States of America, joined Oct 2006, 183 posts, RR: 1
Reply 4, posted (7 years 6 months 6 days 4 hours ago) and read 2974 times:

GL AZ. Interesting to see that AirOne is bidding. They're partners in S*. I wonder how that would play out if AirOne took over AZ...?


Speechless
User currently offlineMCOflyer From United States of America, joined Jun 2006, 8661 posts, RR: 15
Reply 5, posted (7 years 6 months 6 days 4 hours ago) and read 2943 times:

Quoting United777atGU (Reply 4):

I think it would make sense for AF to take over AZ as fllets would be common except for the MD80's. Is there any union issues involved if AF takes over AZ?

MCOflyer



Never be afraid to stand up for who you are.
User currently offlineMastaHanky From United States of America, joined May 2006, 264 posts, RR: 0
Reply 6, posted (7 years 6 months 6 days 4 hours ago) and read 2921 times:

Quoting MCOflyer (Reply 5):
Is there any union issues involved if AF takes over AZ?

Nope. AZ never has any issues with their unions and they will happily go along with whatever direction the new owners decide to take them. They have never gone on strike in their entire existence, and they strongly believe in doing whatever is best for the company.  spin 


User currently offlineWingedarrow From Italy, joined May 2005, 169 posts, RR: 1
Reply 7, posted (7 years 6 months 5 days 14 hours ago) and read 2760 times:

As already mentioned in other recent threads regarding AZA, Mr. Spinetta has resigned from the Italian carrier's management, an evident sign of estrangement rather than approach.

It seems that the most favourite solution that the presnt government would like to put into practice is to sell the airline to a group of Italian investors (enterpreneurs/banks) in order to keep the company under "Italian control".

IMHO, anybody willing to give a cent for today's AZA is just crazy, be it Italian or foreigner...



אליטליה
User currently offlineN774UA From Netherlands, joined Aug 2004, 343 posts, RR: 0
Reply 8, posted (7 years 6 months 5 days 14 hours ago) and read 2739 times:

Quoting Aviator27 (Reply 3):
AF did a good job when they acquired and turned KL around.

Turned around? Please explain yourself.

N774UA



...follow his instructions, switch off at the stand.
User currently offlineJabar From United States of America, joined Jan 2007, 35 posts, RR: 0
Reply 9, posted (7 years 6 months 5 days 13 hours ago) and read 2691 times:

Quoting MastaHanky (Reply 6):
Nope. AZ never has any issues with their unions and they will happily go along with whatever direction the new owners decide to take them. They have never gone on strike in their entire existence, and they strongly believe in doing whatever is best for the company.

Yup. Just like AF!!!!! No unions, no strikes.  rotfl   rotfl 

To complete the picture, why don't they have ADP (who runs CDG) take over MXP?! I can see it from here: AZ & AF, a common customer experience, regardless of where you fly through!

Seriously though, would the EU have anything to say about this? AF+KL+AZ, how big a share of the European skies would that be?


User currently offlineRunway23 From US Minor Outlying Islands, joined Jan 2005, 2182 posts, RR: 36
Reply 10, posted (7 years 6 months 5 days 12 hours ago) and read 2646 times:

Quoting Jabar (Reply 9):
Yup. Just like AF!!!!! No unions, no strikes.

To complete the picture, why don't they have ADP (who runs CDG) take over MXP?! I can see it from here: AZ & AF, a common customer experience, regardless of where you fly through!

Contrary to common belief, AF has not gone on strike since a very long time. Compare that to how many times BA, AZ and others go on strike, AF comes out like an angel.

MXP is such a dump that I'm sure ADP could turn the place around. ADP's management isn't that bad, the functionality, transit, terminal 1/3 bring CDG down.


User currently offlineNycfly75 From Italy, joined Aug 2005, 751 posts, RR: 10
Reply 11, posted (7 years 6 months 5 days 12 hours ago) and read 2619 times:

Quoting Runway23 (Reply 10):
MXP is such a dump that I'm sure ADP could turn the place around.

If AF takes AZ, FCO and LIN will probably be the two main hubs for AZ.

Quoting Wingedarrow (Reply 7):
IMHO, anybody willing to give a cent for today's AZA is just crazy, be it Italian or foreigner...

Meanwhile, Italy is one of Europe's most popular leisure destinations. There is value to all of the rights to Italian cities from overseas that AZ has.


User currently offlineKnightsofmalta From Malta, joined Nov 2005, 1756 posts, RR: 18
Reply 12, posted (7 years 6 months 5 days 11 hours ago) and read 2564 times:

God you'd think AF would have learned their lesson after SN nearly ruined them. I mean, it's not very likely they're going to find another airline nearly as stupid as SR was which will relieve them of AZ once things turn sour.

User currently offlineWingedarrow From Italy, joined May 2005, 169 posts, RR: 1
Reply 13, posted (7 years 6 months 5 days 6 hours ago) and read 2451 times:

Quoting Nycfly75 (Reply 11):
There is value to all of the rights to Italian cities from overseas that AZ has.

Slots (or rights) and the whole airline are two separate things. If, from one side, AZA's presence and spaces throughout Italy could be tempting, on the other side buying the entire company ("la baracca") as it is today would discourage even the best of the spendthrifts...



אליטליה
User currently offlineJoost From Netherlands, joined Apr 2005, 3164 posts, RR: 4
Reply 14, posted (7 years 6 months 5 days 5 hours ago) and read 2444 times:

Quoting Aviator27 (Reply 3):
AF did a good job when they acquired and turned KL around.

AF did not turn KLM around after the takeover. In the years before the takeover/merger, KLM went through a major restructuring process and, at the moment of takeover, was a very healthy and profitable company. KLM took the initiative for the takeover, as they considered that it was the best future for the company and shareholders on the long term, but there was no urgent need for a takeover or money from a larger company.

Both companies have experienced very good synery results from the merger, on both sides.

The situation with AZ is completely different. Alitalia is in big financial trouble, still has major restructuring projects ahead and urgently needs money to survive. Taking over/merging with AZ is a way bigger challenge than KL was, or than LX was for LH.

Quoting MCOflyer (Reply 5):
I think it would make sense for AF to take over AZ as fllets would be common except for the MD80's. Is there any union issues involved if AF takes over AZ?

IMHO, fleet commonality is a nice side-advantage when discussing a merger, but never a critical point. Aircraft, like any (movable) property, can be very easily managed; you won't see a A320 go on strike because he doesn't like management style, like humans do.

The unions and politics involved are the major issue with AZ. Compared to AF or LH, AZ have way more people employed per RPKM. The number of employees on the payroll needs to be reduced badly in order to stay competitive. And here are the issues: unions (naturally) don't want people to lose their jobs; employees don't want to lose their jobs; politics don't want employees to lose their jobs... These issues are of a way different magnitude than any Boeing/Airbus/MDD issue.


User currently offlineJoost From Netherlands, joined Apr 2005, 3164 posts, RR: 4
Reply 15, posted (7 years 6 months 5 days 5 hours ago) and read 2428 times:

Quoting Nycfly75 (Reply 11):
If AF takes AZ, FCO and LIN will probably be the two main hubs for AZ.

I don't expect LIN to become a main hub, as it has such a limited capacity to expand. I expect LIN to stay like it is, and develop even further into a high-yield point-to-point airport for Milan, like ORY is for Paris. When the high-speed train between Milan and Rome is ready, the LIN-FCO services are likely to be reduced freeing up some slots, to increase AMS/FRA/LCY/ORY/NAP/PMO, etc; but that's it.

What's the problem with MXP? When I was there last year, I quite liked the airport, both T1 and T2.


User currently offlineJouy31 From France, joined May 2003, 447 posts, RR: 10
Reply 16, posted (7 years 5 months 3 weeks 3 days 6 hours ago) and read 2263 times:

Quoting Joost (Reply 15):
What's the problem with MXP? When I was there last year, I quite liked the airport, both T1 and T2.

Weather conditions.

I was stranded for a third time Sunday evening and AZ wanted me to wait one hour for a bus (after one hour at the transfer desk and half an hour at the lost and found desk) to go in the middle of nowhere. Fortunately, I had made a reservation at the Crowne Plaza while waiting for ATC to clear us for departure in WAW and told the Airport 2000 desk to whom AZ outsources the management of hotel reservations. I asked for the CP and was told it was full. I said I had managed to get a room there (5mn away by shuttle) and was told AZ would not pay for it. I just got annoyed with it all and walked away. I will have to see with my insurance company. Another time, flying back from ATH, I was lucky to have a flight to FCO boarding at approximately the same time, so was rerouted through FCO to catch an AF flight to CDG.

Connecting in MXP in the wintertime is always a lottery. So much for an airport that would like to become the airline's only hub.


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