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Giant Martin Mars Flying Boats For Sale  
User currently offlineDw747400 From United States of America, joined Aug 2001, 1265 posts, RR: 1
Posted (7 years 10 months 3 weeks 6 days 1 hour ago) and read 22358 times:

Some of you probably already know about the sale of the Martin Mars aircraft, but I hadn't seen anything written on the board about it. I find them to be some of the most incredible aircraft of all time--big and beautiful with an impressive history of military and civilian service.

I especially though some of the folks on here from the BWI/IAD greater DC region would find it interesting, because one museum is trying to fly a Mars here.

From the NY Times:
http://travel.nytimes.com/2007/01/21/us/21mars.html

The Museum
http://www.marylandaviationmuseum.org/mars/index.html

It would be incredible to see one of these birds return to where they were built. I've always wanted to see one in person but never found the cash to run out to the West Coast just for spotting purposes.

Anyone familiar with the sale or these great aircraft in general?


CFI--Certfied Freakin Idiot
13 replies: All unread, jump to last
 
User currently offlinePtrjong From Netherlands, joined Mar 2005, 4003 posts, RR: 18
Reply 1, posted (7 years 10 months 3 weeks 6 days 1 hour ago) and read 22324 times:

I don't know if its realistic, but TimberWest is looking to sell them to a party which continues to fly them as waterbombers.
http://www.timberwest.com/PDF/FTI_Media_Release_11.10.06.pdf

Quoting Dw747400 (Thread starter):
I find them to be some of the most incredible aircraft of all time

I agree. When I was on a boat on Sproat Lake in 2002 to have a look at them, two mechanics aboard Philippine Mars spontaneoulsy invited us on board. One of my best aviation-related memories. I was particularly impressed by the size of the flight deck, more like a boat than an aircraft really. I took this picture of the engineers' station.

View Large View Medium
Click here for bigger photo!

Photo © Peter de Jong




The only difference between me and a madman is that I am not mad (Salvador Dali)
User currently offlineTsnamm From United States of America, joined May 2005, 632 posts, RR: 0
Reply 2, posted (7 years 10 months 3 weeks 6 days ago) and read 22275 times:

I know that the Martin museum in Chase is looking to acquire one....I don't know what they'll do if they get one of the water bombers, as I believe they want it in original configuration. So obviously they will have to make modifications to the water bomber...since they still seem to be in demand as a water bomber, I think Martin may have trouble acquiring one. I know they have started a public collection to fund buying one, they have a commercial on WBAL in Baltimore.

User currently offlineDw747400 From United States of America, joined Aug 2001, 1265 posts, RR: 1
Reply 3, posted (7 years 10 months 3 weeks 5 days 16 hours ago) and read 22079 times:

Quoting Ptrjong (Reply 1):
I was particularly impressed by the size of the flight deck, more like a boat than an aircraft really

Nice picture--I've heard it is quite large upstairs. Apparently some of the early concepts for it (when it was still intended to be flying battleship as opposed to a transport) had provisions for a desk on the flight deck. In theory, the aircraft commander would lead his crew from there while pilots, gunners, and engineers handled their respective tasks.

Quoting Tsnamm (Reply 2):
since they still seem to be in demand as a water bomber

It is strange. I've read conflicting reports on this. Apparently recent US laws mean they are no longer useful in the states, and Canada may be following that lead. Apparently the provincial government feels they are too old for it to consider supporting them directly (e.g. buy the bombers), but I haven't heard anything saying they wouldn't still contract with them.

I just hope that if they end up flying, they find an owner who cares for them with the same respect as their current crews. They are EXPENSIVE to run... one article I saw quoted $3 million per year for only eight missions. I'd worry that another operator would control costs and let the planes deteriorate. Plus, it would be a shame if one or both were lost for some reason. Even the careful current operator started with four planes.



CFI--Certfied Freakin Idiot
User currently offlineType-Rated From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 4, posted (7 years 10 months 3 weeks 5 days 13 hours ago) and read 22008 times:

And let's not forget that once these aircraft are acquired for a museum, it still costs bucks to maintain these aircraft, even if they are not going to be flown. And with the size of the Mars aircraft, even this will be expensive!

User currently offlineTheCol From Canada, joined Jan 2007, 2039 posts, RR: 6
Reply 5, posted (7 years 10 months 3 weeks 5 days 12 hours ago) and read 21997 times:

It'll be a shame to see them go. Those big suckers were a great asset to the BC Forest Service. I was hoping that Conair would buy them, but it's obvious that the bombers are too costly to operate in that kind of role. But you never know...


No matter how random things may appear, there's always a plan.
User currently offlineCV990 From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 6, posted (7 years 10 months 3 weeks 5 days 10 hours ago) and read 21946 times:

Hi!

In a way I must say that it is with a bit of sadness that I see these birds "retiring" from a long, hard, honest live after all these years. But I also think that they will be preserved and maybe kept in flying condition, that would be wonderfull for future generations to see a bird like this. I was always impressed with the longevity of the Martin Mars, and to me that proves the fact that if you really have a great maintenance status, a great way to fly this plane and a great crew, miracles can happen, and the Martin Mars is one of those miracles....it's unbelievable that a flying boat that only a mere half of dozen were builted stayed around untill now!!!! My aplause goes to Martin factory and the way they projected and builted this incredible sound airplane, and of course to all those crew members, crew maintenance that kept this plane flying all this wonderfull more than 60 years old! I think the Mars deserves a bit more respect and popularity...and that we can see in this forum, only a small group of people really know/knew the Martin Mars.....and that's very sad to me!
Congratulations Martin Mars and have a great retirement!!!
Regards


User currently offlinePtrjong From Netherlands, joined Mar 2005, 4003 posts, RR: 18
Reply 7, posted (7 years 10 months 3 weeks 5 days 5 hours ago) and read 21825 times:

Quoting Dw747400 (Reply 3):
Nice picture--I've heard it is quite large upstairs. Apparently some of the early concepts for it (when it was still intended to be flying battleship as opposed to a transport) had provisions for a desk on the flight deck. In theory, the aircraft commander would lead his crew from there

You know the Mars history well. Actually, there still is a large table behind the cockpit and alongside the engineers' station, which is on the port side.

Quoting Dw747400 (Reply 3):
Apparently recent US laws mean they are no longer useful in the states, and Canada may be following that lead. Apparently the provincial government feels they are too old for it to consider supporting them directly (e.g. buy the bombers)

I guess the writing is on the wall for them then. I guess the owner is looking to sell them to a flying operator since that is likely to raise more money, but it may not be realistic.



The only difference between me and a madman is that I am not mad (Salvador Dali)
User currently offlineCV990 From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 8, posted (7 years 10 months 3 weeks 5 days 4 hours ago) and read 21805 times:

Hi!

If some of our friends here had the chance to see the Martin Mars they should infact "light a candle" to a person that understood the potenciality of this airplane...his name is Dan McIvor, someone that saw those 4 Martin Mars stored at Alameda and re-converted them to water-bombers....if he didn't have that bright idea maybe we wouldn't have around that awesome, incredible airplane called Martin Mars! Mr. Dan McIvor, I don't know if you're still here in this world but I bow my head upon you and has an aviation enthusiast I truly respect you!!!
Regards


User currently offlineDw747400 From United States of America, joined Aug 2001, 1265 posts, RR: 1
Reply 9, posted (7 years 10 months 3 weeks 4 days 15 hours ago) and read 21590 times:

Quoting CV990 (Reply 8):
Dan McIvor, I don't know if you're still here in this world but I bow my head upon you and has an aviation enthusiast I truly respect you!!!

I believe he passed away just a few years ago. From what I've read, if the effort being run by the British Columbia Aviation Council and the Martin Museum get their way, the aircraft that remains in the area will form the centerpiece of a McIvor Museum of some type.

Quoting Ptrjong (Reply 7):
Actually, there still is a large table behind the cockpit and alongside the engineers' station, which is on the port side.

Is that a "leftover" from the desk concept, or would that have served a navigation function? After all, you want some good directions on a flight to Hawaii!



CFI--Certfied Freakin Idiot
User currently offline9252fly From Canada, joined Sep 2005, 1403 posts, RR: 0
Reply 10, posted (7 years 10 months 3 weeks 4 days 14 hours ago) and read 21560 times:

Can anyone post some nice pictures of the aircraft onto this thread. It's really amazing when you see a picture of this aircraft,especially for those that have no idea how huge this aircraft is.

User currently offlineFerrypilot From New Zealand, joined Sep 2006, 897 posts, RR: 3
Reply 11, posted (7 years 10 months 3 weeks 4 days 14 hours ago) and read 21543 times:

View Large View Medium
Click here for bigger photo!

Photo © Bjoern Thomsen



View Large View Medium
Click here for bigger photo!

Photo © Ralph M. Pettersen



View Large View Medium
Click here for bigger photo!

Photo © Ralph M. Pettersen


[Edited 2007-01-29 06:48:02]

User currently offlinePtrjong From Netherlands, joined Mar 2005, 4003 posts, RR: 18
Reply 12, posted (7 years 10 months 3 weeks 4 days 8 hours ago) and read 21450 times:



Quoting Dw747400 (Reply 9):
Quoting Ptrjong (Reply 7):
Actually, there still is a large table behind the cockpit and alongside the engineers' station, which is on the port side.

Is that a "leftover" from the desk concept, or would that have served a navigation function? After all, you want some good directions on a flight to Hawaii!

I guess the commander's table was left over to the nav when the fighting ship concept was abandoned.



The only difference between me and a madman is that I am not mad (Salvador Dali)
User currently offlineKC135TopBoom From United States of America, joined Jan 2005, 12178 posts, RR: 51
Reply 13, posted (7 years 10 months 3 weeks 2 days 18 hours ago) and read 21244 times:

They are real beauties. I hope the muesum can get one of them. They look in great shape.

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