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Etihad's JFK Flight To Fail!  
User currently offlineBehramjee From Canada, joined Aug 2003, 4802 posts, RR: 44
Posted (7 years 9 months 1 day 1 hour ago) and read 13721 times:

Dear All,

Today after logging into Sabre, I noticed that the Etihad's flights flown nonstop from AUH to JFK have been re-scheduled.

The flights now depart AUH daily @ 0200 and arrive into JFK @ 0830 i.e. EY 100. The return flight i.e. EY 101 departs JFK @ 1110 and arrives into JFK @ 0740 the next day. The flight is flown with an A 345 and is expected to be replaced by the larger A 346 by the summer.

Now I have a serious problem with this schedule. This new timing doesnt connect with any of the Indian subcontinent flights both ways and only connects with BKK flights both ways.

I fail to see how EY plans on getting pax bound for BOM/DEL/LHE/KHI on board from JFK and vice versa as the transit in AUH in both directions exceeds 10-12 hours. BOM & DEL only connect twice a week with the JFK flight where as LHE/KHI/CMB/DAC do not connect anyday of the week in both directions!!!

The only good thing for EY is that if they have a SPA with DL / AA out of JFK then their flights will finally see good onward 6th freedom traffic bound for other major U.S. cities which wasnt possible in the past as their flights arrived late in the evening i.e. 8pmish.

The only savior plan for EY I feel is to make JFK double daily by having this morning flight and adding another flight with an evening arrival into JFK similar to EY 503/502.

33 replies: All unread, showing first 25:
 
User currently offlineRJNUT From United States of America, joined Dec 1999, 1237 posts, RR: 0
Reply 1, posted (7 years 9 months 1 day ago) and read 13412 times:

What a shame!....You should write to them and voice your concerns!

User currently offlineCHRISBA777ER From UK - England, joined Mar 2001, 5964 posts, RR: 62
Reply 2, posted (7 years 9 months 1 day ago) and read 13312 times:

Agree with much of what you say, but dont forget that this flight connects to the SE Asia routes to BKK, KUL etc (do they serve Jakarta yet?) - they obviously think theres enough O&D pax and transit pax for these routes to keep their JFK rotation alive. I think maybe EK and QR have the Indian stuff sewn up, and perhaps EY are aligning themselves a bit differently to carve themselves a little niche.

Having said that, I dont think a second daily flight is too far off.

Given the choice i'd take EY over EK any day. Their A345s are just out of this world.



What do you mean you dont have any bourbon? Do you know how far it is to Houston? What kind of airline is this???
User currently offlineBehramjee From Canada, joined Aug 2003, 4802 posts, RR: 44
Reply 3, posted (7 years 9 months 23 hours ago) and read 13102 times:

nopes, their JFK flight doesnt even connect with KUL...only BKK connects both ways conveniently alongwith twice weekly flights to BOM/DEL.

what i think may happen though is that EY will start another departure bank time of early morning departures from AUH to certain key regional destinations to help feed this JFK flight.


User currently offlineLHUSA From United States of America, joined Aug 2005, 566 posts, RR: 2
Reply 4, posted (7 years 9 months 23 hours ago) and read 12993 times:

Anyone know how the loads have been on this flight?

User currently offlineCHRISBA777ER From UK - England, joined Mar 2001, 5964 posts, RR: 62
Reply 5, posted (7 years 9 months 23 hours ago) and read 12955 times:

I would think the BKK connection would be enough to give the flight the gee-up it needs, although i cannot imagine yields are that wonderful with BKK alone.


What do you mean you dont have any bourbon? Do you know how far it is to Houston? What kind of airline is this???
User currently offlineMaverickM11 From United States of America, joined Apr 2000, 17672 posts, RR: 46
Reply 6, posted (7 years 9 months 23 hours ago) and read 12911 times:

I don't understand how this flight, and 2 out of 3 of the EK flights carry any passengers at all. The local demand for travel between even all of North America and the UAE is tiny, and the connecting traffic doesn't necessarily pay the bills. Retiming it to move it out of the South Asian flights bank doesn't sound like it's going to help either.


E pur si muove -Galileo
User currently offlineBehramjee From Canada, joined Aug 2003, 4802 posts, RR: 44
Reply 7, posted (7 years 9 months 22 hours ago) and read 12856 times:

Quoting MaverickM11 (Reply 6):
I don't understand how this flight, and 2 out of 3 of the EK flights carry any passengers at all.

EK has no problems seeing decent load factors (50-70% in low season & 80-90% in high season) on their JFK flights as all their flights connect both ways to all of their SE Asian, Indian Subcontinent, Iran, Middle East, North Africa and East Africa flights. This is due to the fact that EK flies at least double daily to a majority of its destinations from DXB plus offers vv cheap fares from JFK.

I recall reading somewhere this month that the overall seat load factor for all of EKs 3 daily JFK flights combined was 68% for 2006.


User currently offlineBeeweel15 From United States of America, joined Nov 2003, 1768 posts, RR: 0
Reply 8, posted (7 years 9 months 22 hours ago) and read 12666 times:

Quoting LHUSA (Reply 4):
Anyone know how the loads have been on this flight?

I work at JFK and I can tell you the flight on Ethiad are light when it comes to passengers on average they take between 4 to 7 ulds of bags on each departure. The only time it was close to 10 ulds of bags was during the Hadjg. Cargo they do carry a decent load per flight around 5 to 7 Pallets. I think these flights are flown here just for show not for profit. Soon Qatar will be flying here and that will make three carriers from that tiny area.


User currently offlineBehramjee From Canada, joined Aug 2003, 4802 posts, RR: 44
Reply 9, posted (7 years 9 months 22 hours ago) and read 12647 times:

Quoting Beeweel15 (Reply 8):
I think these flights are flown here just for show not for profit.

this is the same business philosophy adopted by EK & QR too on many destinations  Wink

U should know by now that EY has developed quite a reputation of copying whatever EK does.


User currently offlineAvatordon From United States of America, joined May 2006, 239 posts, RR: 4
Reply 10, posted (7 years 9 months 22 hours ago) and read 12567 times:

What makes you think the fares to India are profitable? There is cut-throat competition in the Indian market and a glut of capacity. Not only US and Indian carriers, but just about every carrier in Europe and the Near East. (Remember - UA pulled out of DEL because the LHR-DEL market was trashed by AI). As for the schedule, please keep in mind that, as more aircraft are added to the fleet this year, the connections will be "tweaked" to maximize both connection and revenue opportunities.

As for tourism to the area, look at Dubai and how tourism has exploded in that area (http://www.ameinfo.com/38860.html). In addition to that, the government of Abu Dhabi is about to launch its own tourism program in the US - they, too, seem to have growth plans.) (http://www.travelwirenews.com/cgi-cript/csArticles/articles/000107/010789-p.htm)
Let's not forget the oil, construction, still-growing financial, and now tourism markets in Abu Dhabi.


User currently offlineHB-IWC From Indonesia, joined Sep 2000, 4509 posts, RR: 72
Reply 11, posted (7 years 9 months 22 hours ago) and read 12518 times:

Quoting Behramjee (Reply 7):
EK has no problems seeing decent load factors (50-70% in low season & 80-90% in high season) on their JFK flights as all their flights connect both ways to all of their SE Asian, Indian Subcontinent, Iran, Middle East, North Africa and East Africa flights

EK is already much bigger than both EY and QR, which has direct implications on the airline's hub operation. EK has by now sufficient capacity to operate a hub and spoke model with optimized frequencies and connectivity. As long as EY and to a lesser extent QR do not reach the critical mass to operate a similar model, overall connectivity will remain problematic.


User currently offlineJaysit From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 12, posted (7 years 9 months 18 hours ago) and read 12083 times:

Quoting Avatordon (Reply 10):
(Remember - UA pulled out of DEL because the LHR-DEL market was trashed by AI)

UA pulled out of India post 9-11 during a travel slump from the United States. At the time it pulled out, there was a woeful lack of capacity out of India, something that carriers like AA and CO and others have since exploited. UA pulling out of India has nothing to do with AI "trashing" the LHR-DEL market. Back in 2001, there were only about 12 direct flighs from LHR to DEL.

Quoting Avatordon (Reply 10):
What makes you think the fares to India are profitable? There is cut-throat competition in the Indian market and a glut of capacity.

At the end of the day, everyone makes money on the Indian routes, including such carriers as Alitalia and Austrian. Jet Airways doesn't on its LHR routes, but only because it expanded too rapidly and was hitherto denied the all too important North American connectivity. Still, even Jet has managed to stem the losses. And, yes, the Indian market has become cutthroat, but its in comparison with what it used to be when air travel in and out of India was heavily regulated and constrained.


User currently offlineBestWestern From Hong Kong, joined Sep 2000, 7216 posts, RR: 57
Reply 13, posted (7 years 9 months 18 hours ago) and read 11956 times:

Quoting Jaysit (Reply 12):
everyone makes money on the Indian routes

Bmi?



The world is really getting smaller these days
User currently offlineEmirates777 From Tanzania, joined Feb 2000, 655 posts, RR: 3
Reply 14, posted (7 years 9 months 17 hours ago) and read 11411 times:

I think the change in timings has been made in order to permit efficient aircraft rotation to serve both JFK and the new SYD service. EY will be getting very good utilisation of their 4x A345s -- serving JFK and SYD daily as well as LHR 6x weekly, BOM 5x weekly and DEL 1x weekly.

Rgds
Emirates777


User currently offlineJaysit From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 15, posted (7 years 9 months 16 hours ago) and read 10936 times:

Quoting BestWestern (Reply 13):
Quoting Jaysit (Reply 12):
everyone makes money on the Indian routes

Bmi?

Well, BMI may be an outlying case. However, we don't know if BMI were actually making losses. Their load factors were certainly decent on the BOM route. However, with Jet doubling their LHR flights, BMI would have had to market their product rather aggressively, something they weren't doing either in India or the US for that matter. When you look at carriers like Alitalia, Austrian and the other European carriers, they market their flights to India very aggressively in the US.

As for Etihad, maybe they don't need to market their US flights to India. God knows, there are enough Indians headed to Abu Dhabi.


User currently offlineFlyguy1 From United States of America, joined Jun 1999, 1740 posts, RR: 4
Reply 16, posted (7 years 9 months 16 hours ago) and read 10641 times:

IIRC, it was rumored on this site, that EY would be starting a second daily JFK flight via FRA. The retiming of the nonstop flight, may be the first sign of this happening.


727, L1011, MD80, A300, 777-200, 737-300, 737-700, 747-400, 757-200, 737-800, A320. E190, E135, 767-200, CRJ9
User currently offlineTbird From United States of America, joined Oct 2001, 851 posts, RR: 19
Reply 17, posted (7 years 9 months 15 hours ago) and read 10033 times:

Well they better not fail before I can get a HoBe departure shot of them. This new schedule is great for us photogs!

User currently offlineSq_ek_freak From United Kingdom, joined Dec 2000, 1641 posts, RR: 20
Reply 18, posted (7 years 9 months 14 hours ago) and read 9604 times:

Perhaps the fact that the flight only connects to EY's BKK flight is Etihad's reaction to the possible imminent cancellation of TG's direct JFK services to BKK. While LAX had a one stop service through Japan before it went non-stop, JFK was not operated until the A345s arrived. Currently, I know that when the LAX non-stops are done, it will turn back to the one-stop service. I have heard no such news for JFK though. It would be smart for EY to capatilize on TG's inability to sustain the JFK-BKK route if that is indeed what they are doing.


Keep Discovering
User currently offlineAvatordon From United States of America, joined May 2006, 239 posts, RR: 4
Reply 19, posted (7 years 9 months 14 hours ago) and read 9288 times:

Quoting Jaysit (Reply 12):
UA pulled out of India post 9-11 during a travel slump from the United States. At the time it pulled out, there was a woeful lack of capacity out of India, something that carriers like AA and CO and others have since exploited. UA pulling out of India has nothing to do with AI "trashing" the LHR-DEL market. Back in 2001, there were only about 12 direct flighs from LHR to DEL.

This was, for all intents and purposes, a no-profit prestige route. I was in New York sales w/UA at the time, and it was made clear to us that LHR-DEL was **not** a profitable market, the lack of capacity notwithstanding. ALl of the other segments on UA1/UA2, however, were. We were told - by our own CEO, Rono Dutta - that it was because AI was trashing the market. Due to the low yields in this market, that is, LHR-DEL segment, UA finally deemed it too costly to operate and discontinued it. When that was stopped, we were planning to operate a daily 747-400 service nonstop ORD-DEL but then 9/11 happened, and that idea was canned.


User currently offlineAvatordon From United States of America, joined May 2006, 239 posts, RR: 4
Reply 20, posted (7 years 9 months 14 hours ago) and read 9260 times:

Quoting Emirates777 (Reply 14):
I think the change in timings has been made in order to permit efficient aircraft rotation to serve both JFK and the new SYD service. EY will be getting very good utilisation of their 4x A345s -- serving JFK and SYD daily as well as LHR 6x weekly, BOM 5x weekly and DEL 1x weekly.

That is precisely what is being done. The JFK aircraft will run through to SYD and vice-versa.


User currently offlineBehramjee From Canada, joined Aug 2003, 4802 posts, RR: 44
Reply 21, posted (7 years 9 months 14 hours ago) and read 9163 times:

Quoting Avatordon (Reply 20):
That is precisely what is being done. The JFK aircraft will run through to SYD and vice-versa.

i dont think so as the A 345s used for JFK will be replaced by the A 346s in the summer (most likely by early June).

SYD becomes a daily A 345 service from June 29th...the daily flight is already uploaded on sabre reservations systems.


User currently offlineAvatordon From United States of America, joined May 2006, 239 posts, RR: 4
Reply 22, posted (7 years 9 months 13 hours ago) and read 8819 times:

Quoting Behramjee (Reply 21):
i dont think so as the A 345s used for JFK will be replaced by the A 346s in the summer (most likely by early June).

That's what we were told at a meeting a couple of weeks ago, but like anything else, could change. I am curious as to where the A340-600s will go.


User currently offlineAfterburner From Indonesia, joined Jun 2005, 1213 posts, RR: 1
Reply 23, posted (7 years 9 months 13 hours ago) and read 8783 times:

Quoting CHRISBA777ER (Reply 2):
do they serve Jakarta yet?

Yes, they do.


User currently offlineEmirates773er From Pakistan, joined Jun 2005, 1450 posts, RR: 9
Reply 24, posted (7 years 9 months 13 hours ago) and read 8771 times:

Guys any idea when AUH-YYZ could become a direct route?


The Truth is Out There ---- Face It!!!!!
25 Post contains images Mk777 : why can't these middle east airlines start service to IAD, I am tired of flying the european carriers from here to DEL....I am sure there would be mar
26 Beeweel15 : Did you mean the 777-300ER.
27 Jetdeltamsy : Perhaps they are not chasing the Indian market. While a huge market, it is becoming more and more exploited by foreign airlines every day. Their deci
28 Beeweel15 : The pax loads are exetreemly light while cargo is good. Last night EY left with 3 ulds of pax and crew bags but the rest of the space was filled with
29 EtihadAirways : Etihad Airways is going to have new timing to connect with the Indian subcontinent Destinations. There are a lot of changes in timing and aircrafts ty
30 Jaysit : Does Etihad even care if its planes fly half empty? Isn't the airline basically a vanity project for Abu Dhabi as a one-upmanship over Emirates? As lo
31 Manny : Perhaps! Really ? What drives the O&D demand between New York & Abu Dabhi. The likes of EK, EY are setup for connecting traffic. Otherwise there is n
32 Post contains images HiJazzey : SV fly to IAD
33 AirbusfanYYZ : Direct AUH-YYZ starts June '07 with the A345, upgrading to the A346 as of Aug '07. Cheers, Kaz
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