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WSJ On XJT - ONT Busiest Station + More Routes  
User currently offlineFATFlyer From United States of America, joined May 2001, 5804 posts, RR: 14
Posted (7 years 7 months 3 weeks 4 days 2 hours ago) and read 3878 times:

The Wall Street Journal Online in a column by Scott McCartney about ExpressJet is reporting a few details. We'll see how accurate it turns out to be on Thursday.
http://online.wsj.com/preview_login....html%3Fmod%3Dyahoo_hs%26ru%3Dyahoo

The article says the fares will be about $150 to $300 one-way.

ONT will be the busiest city with flights to 14 destinations.

They say routes will include SAN-OMA, MSY-JAX, AUS-ABQ, SMF-TUS, MCI-RDU.


"Travel is fatal to prejudice, bigotry, and narrow-mindedness." - Mark Twain
40 replies: All unread, showing first 25:
 
User currently offlineFATFlyer From United States of America, joined May 2001, 5804 posts, RR: 14
Reply 1, posted (7 years 7 months 3 weeks 4 days 2 hours ago) and read 3825 times:

I found a copy of the article on another website that is open to everyone.
http://www.dailyreportonline.com/Edi...=1%2F30%2F2007%4013410_Public_.htm

A few other details it includes:
Flights start in April. City rollout will be west to east, finishing in May.

Free snacks, sandwiches and cold pasta dishes on flights.

There will be a frequent flier program.



"Travel is fatal to prejudice, bigotry, and narrow-mindedness." - Mark Twain
User currently offlineCALMSP From United States of America, joined Aug 2003, 3969 posts, RR: 7
Reply 2, posted (7 years 7 months 3 weeks 4 days 2 hours ago) and read 3800 times:
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wow..........SAN-OMA...........thats got to be a prized route  drunk 


okay, I'm waiting for the rich to spread the wealth around to me. Please mail your checks to my house.
User currently offlineLaxintl From United States of America, joined May 2000, 25406 posts, RR: 49
Reply 3, posted (7 years 7 months 3 weeks 4 days 2 hours ago) and read 3800 times:

ExpressJet CEO and CFO will be taking part in a presentation at the Raymond James conference including a Webcast this Thursday and likely to reveal details about their plans.

http://biz.yahoo.com/prnews/070130/datu042.html?.v=80



From the desert to the sea, to all of Southern California
User currently offlineMikey711MN From United States of America, joined Nov 2003, 1398 posts, RR: 8
Reply 4, posted (7 years 7 months 3 weeks 4 days 2 hours ago) and read 3784 times:

Quoting CALMSP (Reply 2):
thats got to be a prized route

I think the success of ExpressJet is predicated on their competition coming up with that same conclusion for every to-be-announced route, and therefore not offering any competing flights to erode ExpressJet's market. They are, after all, flying only 50 seats between the two cities and may charge a premium to business fliers, for example, who are interested in the nonstop service vis-a-vis connecting.

What remains to be seen is if the on-board amenities can get this market segment on board and if the frequent flier program will get them to come back.

-Mike



I plan on living forever. So far, so good...
User currently offlineCALMSP From United States of America, joined Aug 2003, 3969 posts, RR: 7
Reply 5, posted (7 years 7 months 3 weeks 4 days 1 hour ago) and read 3746 times:
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one problem is getting those FF that have large accounts on their fave airline who pay higher fares to come over. For someone to start over at the bottom with no special privileges like an elite member or such, might be difficult. I dont think they can survive on Granny Jones looking for a 100 fare r/t.


okay, I'm waiting for the rich to spread the wealth around to me. Please mail your checks to my house.
User currently offlineAirTranTUS From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 6, posted (7 years 7 months 3 weeks 4 days 1 hour ago) and read 3674 times:

Quoting FATFlyer (Thread starter):
SMF-TUS

While that route may be useful to some, I would rather see them fly east out of TUS.

I can't wait to get a pic of one of their jets here.


User currently offlineMikey711MN From United States of America, joined Nov 2003, 1398 posts, RR: 8
Reply 7, posted (7 years 7 months 3 weeks 4 days 1 hour ago) and read 3627 times:

Quoting CALMSP (Reply 5):
I dont think they can survive on Granny Jones looking for a 100 fare r/t.

Nor are they claiming to. That may have been a page from iAir's philosophy, but it seems as though the ExpressJet folks have learned quite a bit about why they failed. From the article:

Quote:
Fares will run roughly $150 to $300 one-way, about the same as the price structure today. It is trying to be a bit upscale to attract business travelers: ExpressJet plans to serve free snacks, sandwiches and cold pasta dishes, have its own segment-based frequent-flier program and sell tickets online, over the phone without added fees and through travel agents.

In other words, they're not charging ridiculously low fares, they're catering to a specific market segment, and they'll offer their product through a wide network of sales points, nothing that iAir did (or at least until it was too late).

-Mike



I plan on living forever. So far, so good...
User currently offlineFATFlyer From United States of America, joined May 2001, 5804 posts, RR: 14
Reply 8, posted (7 years 7 months 3 weeks 4 days ago) and read 3563 times:

Quoting AirTranTUS (Reply 6):
While that route may be useful to some, I would rather see them fly east out of TUS.

I believe in the earnings conference call it was said there will be 59 city-pairs total for the 24 cities. So it will be interesting to see how things all tie together.

I would not be surprised to see TUS get an east bound route or two along with a couple of west bound.



"Travel is fatal to prejudice, bigotry, and narrow-mindedness." - Mark Twain
User currently offlineMikey711MN From United States of America, joined Nov 2003, 1398 posts, RR: 8
Reply 9, posted (7 years 7 months 3 weeks 4 days ago) and read 3550 times:

Quoting FATFlyer (Thread starter):
MCI-RDU

I'm actually quite curious now on what MCI routes will be announced. That is, YX has offered up the notion that its growth is at least somewhat attributable to the use of 50-seat RJs, 10 of which will be based in MCI and some of which will open up new routes for them.

Now if they're looking at the same numbers that ExpressJet is looking at, methinks they're targeting the same city pairs. Given that ExpressJet will be first in line to offer these flights, I further wonder if that will give YX's RJ deployment plan a bit of pause.

I guess we'll have to see when both plans are announced and fully implemented.

-Mike



I plan on living forever. So far, so good...
User currently offlineSan747 From United States of America, joined Dec 2004, 4943 posts, RR: 12
Reply 10, posted (7 years 7 months 3 weeks 3 days 23 hours ago) and read 3464 times:

SAN-OMA? Interesting... Cool to see though, I always like seeing a new airline/service at SAN.

Also good to see ONT is going to get a nice operation from them, ONT is a great airport and is vastly underserved...



Scotty doesn't know...
User currently offlineScottB From United States of America, joined Jul 2000, 6764 posts, RR: 32
Reply 11, posted (7 years 7 months 3 weeks 3 days 22 hours ago) and read 3405 times:

Well, one of the issues I see is going to be offering enough frequency to make the non-stops competitive. Taking a route like SAN-OMA, the dominant carrier (WN) offers what are essentially five different schedule choices. One daily round-trip won't be enough unless the flights are cheap. The total O&D in the market would support 3 daily round-trips if they got 100% share. Similarly, on MSY-SAT, WN offers at least six different schedule choices in each direction (and CO is very competitive in this market, too). One or two daily round-trips won't cut it unless the flights are cheaper.

Quoting FATFlyer (Reply 8):
I believe in the earnings conference call it was said there will be 59 city-pairs total for the 24 cities. So it will be interesting to see how things all tie together.

With 59 city-pairs and 44 aircraft, I don't see how most markets will see more than one or two daily round-trips if the average stage length looks to be somewhere in the neighborhood of one-and-a-half to two hours (not that most of the likely markets could support more than that based on traffic numbers). I don't believe that's enough to let them compete on product if they won't be able to compete on price (given their cost structure).


User currently offlineKcrwFlyer From United States of America, joined May 2004, 3817 posts, RR: 7
Reply 12, posted (7 years 7 months 3 weeks 2 days 21 hours ago) and read 3203 times:

Whats expressjet going to do in places like AVL and ABE?

User currently offlineDesertAir From Mexico, joined Jan 2006, 1462 posts, RR: 0
Reply 13, posted (7 years 7 months 3 weeks 2 days 11 hours ago) and read 3007 times:

I fly TUS-SMF about 10 times a year and am happy to see this new service. I usually fly WN and once in a while US. I am interested to see their schedules and fares. I am not too excited about riding on the RJs. I like WN because of their mainline service.

User currently offlineERAUgrad02 From United States of America, joined Nov 2005, 1227 posts, RR: 0
Reply 14, posted (7 years 7 months 3 weeks 2 days 10 hours ago) and read 2983 times:

I wish they'd do ILM-RDU 2or 3 times daily. Loads were always full on this route.


Desmond MacRae in ILM
User currently offlineLoneStarMike From United States of America, joined Jul 2000, 3827 posts, RR: 33
Reply 15, posted (7 years 7 months 3 weeks 2 days 8 hours ago) and read 2895 times:

COS will be another nonstop destination from ONT (and SMF & SAN) according to this article from the Colorado Springs Gazette.

Colorado Springs Airport will get nonstop flights to three California cities beginning April 30, officials announced Wednesday.

ExpressJet Airline will provide the new service on 50-passenger jets between the Springs and Ontario, Sacramento and San Diego, said Mike Kazmierski, president and chief executive officer of the Colorado Springs Economic Development Corp.

There's more to the article including comments from Mike Boyd.

Maybe I'm just getting senile, but this is the one part that I'm confused about.

The initial articles about Expressjet's new service indicated that tickets would go on sale today (Thursday, February 1) Today's article in the Colorado Springs Gazette also indicates this. It says:

Tickets go on sale today at www.xjet.com and through travel agencies by March. Mark Earle, aviation director of the Colorado Springs Airport, declined to comment at the request of the airline until a news conference Monday.

Other articles in other papers around the country have speculated on new city-pairs and most have said we wouldn't know for sure until Monday, when the press conferences are held at the various airports.

If the tickets go on sale today, won't we know today what the new nonstop city-pairs will be?

So does anyone know for sure if the tickets are going on sale today, or is it really going to be sometime next week?

BTW, and this is off-topic, but the Colorado Springs Gazette mentions that the last new flight at the airport was AA nonstop service from COS-SAT. Wasn't it United Express flying that route when they had their short-lived focus city at SAT?

LoneStarMike

User currently offlineFlyinryan99 From United States of America, joined Feb 2001, 2004 posts, RR: 13
Reply 16, posted (7 years 7 months 3 weeks 2 days 8 hours ago) and read 2876 times:

Quoting LoneStarMike (Reply 15):
Wasn't it United Express flying that route when they had their short-lived focus city at SAT?

Yes, you are correct.

I like these routes out of COS. Depending on the amount of flights they offer, I think they will work out pretty good. UA has expanded some flights to California out of COS, but it's no where near the mainline AA M80s they used to have.


User currently offlineOnt 737 From United States of America, joined Mar 2001, 590 posts, RR: 2
Reply 17, posted (7 years 7 months 3 weeks 2 days 7 hours ago) and read 2828 times:

Great, low frequency flights with high cost RJs on low demand routes..... how could they loose!!! We all know how those business travelers love those RJs.  Yeah sure ScottB hit the nail on the head. Nonstop service is convenient, but schedule options (although thu or connecting) are very important. 1 or 2 daily nonstops (with no conx or thu to help fill it up) are going to be very hard to fill up with a decent have fare.

Lets have a little fun with math.
SAN-OMA
1324 miles
.10 CASM (being *very* generous on a 50 sea RJ)
70% load factor (again being very generous)

This flight makes 66,200 ASMs for a rough cost of $6,620. A 70% load factor means there are 35 butts on the plane. It would take an average fare of $189 to just cover the costs. Ouch. SAN-OMA's average fare is $160 with only 233 daily customers. (2Q 2006 DOT stats) Ouch again. I would suspect it is a very similar story on almost all of their proposed routes.


These folks must have a very selective memory. Does United Express in SAT ring any bells?
start up
http://news.thomasnet.com/companystory/477402
ending
http://blogs.usatoday.com/sky/2006/08/sat.html



"The world is run by C students"-Harry Truman
User currently offlineRampRat74 From United States of America, joined Dec 2003, 1537 posts, RR: 2
Reply 18, posted (7 years 7 months 3 weeks 2 days 7 hours ago) and read 2788 times:

I wonder what gates they will use at ONT? The only open gates in Terminal 2 are 208, 209. They will need more then two gates to run their operation to fourteen cities like they said they will.

User currently offlineLoneStarMike From United States of America, joined Jul 2000, 3827 posts, RR: 33
Reply 19, posted (7 years 7 months 3 weeks 2 days 6 hours ago) and read 2773 times:

Here's another story, this time from one of San Antonio's local TV stations. It doesn't mention possible nonstop destinations from SAT, but it does bring up a good point, IMO.

"My great fear is that someday we will lose some of the major companies that we have because it's just too hard for them to schedule some of their executives on a convenient basis," former San Antonio Mayor Henry Cisneros said.

The Chamber of Commerce has a task force set up that is trying to get more direct flights to San Antonio.

Obviously frequency on a given city-pair is an important part of convenience, but so is the amount of time it takes to get from Point A to Point B.

Using SAT-MSY as an example, yes WN offers lots of frequency in this market, but look how long it actually takes to maake the trip factoring in the connection or stop. Anywhere from 2 hours 25 minutes to 3 hours 50 minutes. Three of the eight daily departures are under 3 hours and the other five are over three hours. This is for a 494 mile trip.

How long would a nonstop in a regional jet take? I'm guessing an hour and a half at most. A savings of one to three hours each way might appeal to business types, especially if they are making an out and back trip on the same day.

And if Expressjet's fare structure is like most other airlines, it won't matter if these "day trippers" book their ticket one day in advance or three months in advance. If there's no overnight stay involved, then they'll most likely be paying full fare.

I've read in the past that Southwest sells a higher percentage of full fare tickets than most of the other carriers. One reason is because their walk-up fares are reasonable, but another reason might be that many of their flights are short-haul and they have a lot of same-day out and back travelers paying full fare.

It's for this reason I think Expressjet may see some success in some of the short and mid-haul markets. It depends on the timing of these flights, though. I think a morning departure and late-afternoon or early-evening return in each direction plus maybe a mid-day flight would work.

JMHO.

LoneStarMike

User currently offlineRampart From United States of America, joined Aug 2005, 3138 posts, RR: 6
Reply 20, posted (7 years 7 months 3 weeks 2 days 6 hours ago) and read 2738 times:

Quoting LoneStarMike (Reply 15):
COS will be another nonstop destination from ONT (and SMF & SAN) according to this article from the Colorado Springs Gazette.

That is welcome news for Colorado Springs. Many Cal ex-pats and Colo ex-pats need something other than one or two flights to/from Los Angeles. Something to Seattle might work as well. Recent new service by the likes of Great Plains and Vanguard to points east (OKC, MCI) didn't do as well, the successes (DL, US, UA, Allegiant) have looked west. I would have thought UAExpress to SAT (Trans-States, right?) would have done better, but guess not, unless ExpressJet can work it better. The only other eastbound that might work that isn't already covered would be NYC somewhere (probably too long for a stage) and reinstating STL that TWA operated for years.

Quoting Ont 737 (Reply 17):
We all know how those business travelers love those RJs.

Many of them probably do, have you taken a poll? I find ERJs much preferable to cramped 737s. I'm GUARANTEED either an aisle or a window. Many of my colleagues think likewise. I can't be alone on that thought.

-Rampart


User currently offlineMAH4546 From Sweden, joined Jan 2001, 32789 posts, RR: 72
Reply 21, posted (7 years 7 months 3 weeks 2 days 6 hours ago) and read 2712 times:

Quoting Ont 737 (Reply 17):

These folks must have a very selective memory. Does United Express in SAT ring any bells?
start up
http://news.thomasnet.com/companystory/477402
ending
http://blogs.usatoday.com/sky/2006/0....html

Great mini-analysis and thanks for the links. From the second one, there is a quote that pretty much sums up why I feel ExpressJet will not be successful:

“The convenience of non-stop doesn't always work," says Barbara Prossen, assistant to the San Antonio aviation director. The Express-News says Prossen cited “frequent-flier programs used by competitors such as Southwest and American” as a reason United's service might have underperformed. It's a likely indication that San Antonio travelers were not willing to abandon their chance to earn miles or elite status on these airlines.

I don't see why San Antonio area business travelers are going to be any different form New Orleans, Ontario, Colorado Springs, etc.

This concept would stand a much better shot if they started a codeshare agreement with a major airline.



a.
User currently offlineMAH4546 From Sweden, joined Jan 2001, 32789 posts, RR: 72
Reply 22, posted (7 years 7 months 3 weeks 2 days 6 hours ago) and read 2693 times:

Route map is up at their website. Ontario will have flights to:

Albuquerque
Austin
Boise
Colorado Springs
El Paso
Fresno
Kansas City
Monterrey
Oklahoma City
Omaha
San Antonio
Spokane
Tucson
Tulsa



a.
User currently offlineFATFlyer From United States of America, joined May 2001, 5804 posts, RR: 14
Reply 23, posted (7 years 7 months 3 weeks 2 days 6 hours ago) and read 2670 times:

Quoting MAH4546 (Reply 22):
Route map is up at their website. Ontario will have flights to:

Albuquerque
Austin
Boise
Colorado Springs
El Paso
Fresno
Kansas City
Monterrey
Oklahoma City
Omaha
San Antonio
Spokane
Tucson
Tulsa

Looks like Bakersfield also.

FYI, Monterey in California has only 1 "R". The other spelling is in Mexico.  Wink



"Travel is fatal to prejudice, bigotry, and narrow-mindedness." - Mark Twain
User currently offlineOnt 737 From United States of America, joined Mar 2001, 590 posts, RR: 2
Reply 24, posted (7 years 7 months 3 weeks 2 days 6 hours ago) and read 2670 times:

Quoting Rampart (Reply 20):
Many of them probably do, have you taken a poll? I find ERJs much preferable to cramped 737s. I'm GUARANTEED either an aisle or a window. Many of my colleagues think likewise. I can't be alone on that thought.

6ft tall cabin and 31 inches of seat pitch... What's not to love about that? And I just love the last row where you have to smell the lav after everyone takes a dump in it.  tired 

What is the longest flight you have ever been on in a RJ? I flew IAH-DCA on ExpressJet. 2.5 hours on a EMB-145 is no walk in the park.

Just curious....
What criteria are you using when you say the 737 "cramped"?



"The world is run by C students"-Harry Truman
25 Rampart : Personal preference, I guess, but like I say, I'm not alone. I don't go about measuring seat pitch, but I felt better in ERJs from COEx and AmericanE
26 Joeljack : What website is this route map on? I couldn't find it.
27 Post contains links AirTranTUS : xjet.com is the site for the independent ExpressJet. Just figured that out myself. And I had to edit because if you use the "www" in front, you get t
28 MAH4546 : Bakersfield only has a San Diego flight.
29 Gigneil : I can't help but think this is a horrible idea. Have they forgotten FlyI? NS
30 FATFlyer : Poor job on the route map. If you click BFL the line appears to go to ONT then SAN.
31 RJNUT : ONT does not light up, however, but I agree they could reroute the little zoomy thing to go around ONT.
32 DeltaDAWG : Can anyone at Xpressjet say: "Independence Air"? At least Independence had some sense of style about it. Also, how quickly are they going ot figure ou
33 San747 : Wow, looks like SAN gets a decent operation there too! The map shows SAN- Bakersfield Monterey Fresno Boise Spokane Omaha Colorado Springs Tulsa Oklah
34 ERJ170 : How in the hell can you say that? Are you blind? Independence Air was hub and spoke system from Washington-Dulles going head to head with United/US A
35 San747 : Don't worry ERJ170, I feel the same way as you... I just want to see what happens, and as a SAN guy, I'm always happy to see new services/airlines at
36 COERJ145 : PSP-IAH, 3hrs.
37 ERJ170 : Dont' forget United used to do RDU-DEN on a RJ at 3.5 hours...
38 Gigneil : Easy. I said it too, and I am clearly not blind. The problem with FlyI wasn't just Dulles, or United. The problem is that regional jets do not a low
39 Falcon flyer : Not that Southwest is the end all, be all but a quick check of the route system shows 16 out of 20 destinations are SWA stations. Of the 58 listed cit
40 Post contains images XJET : The only similarity between FlyI and XJET is that 50 seat jets were used. ACA/FlyI lost all of their business with UA at once. They were forced to pu
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