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KLM Fokkers: Future  
User currently offlineBA787 From United Kingdom, joined Jun 2006, 2596 posts, RR: 7
Posted (7 years 6 months 3 days 9 hours ago) and read 5477 times:

Following the thread on KL 733s, I thought I'd ask what the future looks like for the KL Fokkers. AKAI can see, they seem to be aging a bit and given Fokkers..ahem... inactivity, what will replace them?

F70/F100 fleet is 16.5 average years of age

F50 is 10.5 average years of age.

Both are quite high, especially for regional aircraft

40 replies: All unread, showing first 25:
 
User currently onlineHB-IWC From Greece, joined Sep 2000, 4498 posts, RR: 72
Reply 1, posted (7 years 6 months 3 days 9 hours ago) and read 5448 times:

The Fokker fleet is in the process of receiving a cabin retrofit, so I'd venture to say that KLM is not about to let go of these aircraft, which seem to perfectly serve their purpose within the airline's regional network.

User currently offlineSllevin From United States of America, joined Jan 2002, 3376 posts, RR: 6
Reply 2, posted (7 years 6 months 3 days 8 hours ago) and read 5387 times:

KL recently inked a deal for maintenance of these birds for a number of years...so I think you'll see them around another 7-10 years.

Steve


User currently offlineYOWza From Canada, joined Jul 2005, 4865 posts, RR: 15
Reply 3, posted (7 years 6 months 3 days 7 hours ago) and read 5331 times:

I'm glad to here the Fokkers will be around for a while, they're great little birds. Although I would also love to see some Embraers in KL colours.

YOWza



12A whenever possible.
User currently offlineRootsAir From Costa Rica, joined Feb 2005, 4186 posts, RR: 40
Reply 4, posted (7 years 6 months 3 days 7 hours ago) and read 5320 times:

KLM Fokker 70's And 100's Till When? (by RootsAir Aug 19 2006 in Civil Aviation)


A man without the knowledge of his past history,culture and origins is like a tree without roots
User currently offlineKeesje From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 5, posted (7 years 6 months 3 days 7 hours ago) and read 5283 times:

Quoting BA787 (Thread starter):
F50 is 10.5 average years of age

This cannot be the case, production stopped before 1996.

I guess the only available option is the Emb 190/195.

Embraer took a gamble & is now king of the hill.

Other real options are on paper only.

I specified a merge the Dornier, GTF & Green Aircraft designs & Henry Lam made an AI, not coincidently in KLC colors.

http://www.kaktusdigital.com/images/large/klm_lrj_02.jpg
http://www.airliners.net/discussions...2927184&s=keesje+100-130#ID2927184


User currently offlineA388 From Netherlands Antilles, joined May 2001, 9742 posts, RR: 11
Reply 6, posted (7 years 6 months 3 days 6 hours ago) and read 5227 times:

Quoting Keesje (Reply 5):
I specified a merge the Dornier, GTF & Green Aircraft designs & Henry Lam made an AI, not coincidently in KLC colors.

Nice design on that aircraft I must say  Smile

A388


User currently offlineViscount724 From Switzerland, joined Oct 2006, 24917 posts, RR: 22
Reply 7, posted (7 years 6 months 3 days 6 hours ago) and read 5197 times:

I've been on a few KL F100s and F70s recently and they all seemed to be in good condition including the interiors. I also find their seats more comfortable than KL's 737s.

User currently offlineNdebele From Germany, joined Apr 2001, 2899 posts, RR: 23
Reply 8, posted (7 years 6 months 2 days 23 hours ago) and read 5071 times:

Two additional F100s have been delivered to KLM yesterday: PH-OFO (ex PT-MRS) and PH-OFP (ex PT-MRP). Source: http://skyliner-aviation.de/

User currently offlineEGBJ From United Kingdom, joined Jan 2007, 498 posts, RR: 4
Reply 9, posted (7 years 6 months 2 days 19 hours ago) and read 4933 times:

Now that F70/100 production is shut down, and Fokker are long gone, how do KLM maintain these birds? Do they have a hard time sourcing spare parts etc and do you think they'd consider buying the new Rekkof birds whenever (if ever) they are built.

User currently offlineTrinxat From Germany, joined Nov 2006, 176 posts, RR: 0
Reply 10, posted (7 years 6 months 2 days 17 hours ago) and read 4811 times:

Quoting Viscount724 (Reply 7):
I've been on a few KL F100s and F70s recently and they all seemed to be in good condition including the interiors. I also find their seats more comfortable than KL's 737s.

wow, I can't agree to that! Specialy if you compare them to the new extra-thin Recaro seats that KL 738/9 have. The fokker seats are too stiff, and the cabin feels very tight for a 2-3 seating. I wonder how much narrow is the F100 cabin compared to a 717, as it feels considerably more claustrophobic

I hate those fokkers, I always try to avoid KLM cityhopper because of them. I would rather fly on a CRJ or a BAe146 or an E170 with no hesitation.


User currently offlineHAM From Germany, joined Jul 2005, 287 posts, RR: 1
Reply 11, posted (7 years 6 months 2 days 17 hours ago) and read 4784 times:

Recently I´ve been on a refurbished F100 and it seemed modern enough for the coming 5-10 years. I guess the average passenger will think it´s a modern plane and won´t complain about those Fokkers. I like them because they´re different than all the As and Bs - for example with those egg-shaped windows. It´s also nice to fly to the Netherlands on a plane which has been built in that country.

User currently offlineMennix From Germany, joined Dec 2006, 69 posts, RR: 0
Reply 12, posted (7 years 6 months 2 days 16 hours ago) and read 4742 times:

I love the F 50. If I fly from CGN or DUS to AMS they mostly have the F 50. Best is at stormy weather. It is incredible to see how this small planes handles the strong winds at AMS. After one of those flights you know what flying is.

User currently offlineMH017 From Netherlands, joined Apr 2005, 1686 posts, RR: 31
Reply 13, posted (7 years 6 months 2 days 16 hours ago) and read 4675 times:

Cityhopper will take-in more 'newer' F100's to replace 'older' ones, to extend the operation of this aircraft for a few more years, until a suitable replacement can be found (Sukhoi RRJ ?), so, basically 'buying some time' this way...

Ndebele:

Only PH-OFP was delivered yesterday, 31/01/07, as KL7151 from WOE to AMS...PH-OFO will take some more weeks to grace SPL's runway  Smile



don't throw away tomorrow !
User currently offlineAviopic From Netherlands, joined Mar 2004, 2681 posts, RR: 42
Reply 14, posted (7 years 6 months 2 days 15 hours ago) and read 4642 times:

Quoting EGBJ (Reply 9):
and Fokker are long gone

As explained a zillion times production of new A/C's stopped but Fokker did not.

Quoting EGBJ (Reply 9):
do KLM maintain these birds?

KL doesn't.
Martinair, Roissy and Fokker Services do.

Quoting EGBJ (Reply 9):
Do they have a hard time sourcing spare parts etc

Nope, we supply everything needed and if not available produce new.

Quoting Trinxat (Reply 10):
I wonder how much narrow is the F100 cabin compared to a 717

Dimensions are virtally the same for virtually the same number of pax.
http://www.airliners.net/info/stats.main?id=111
http://www.airliners.net/info/stats.main?id=221

Quoting Trinxat (Reply 10):
as it feels considerably more claustrophobic



Quoting Trinxat (Reply 10):
I would rather fly on a CRJ

 rotfl 



The truth lives in one’s mind, it doesn’t really exist
User currently offlineTom12 From United Kingdom, joined Dec 2005, 1078 posts, RR: 13
Reply 15, posted (7 years 6 months 2 days 15 hours ago) and read 4611 times:

The Safetly record for there F100/70's and 50's seems to be pretty good as well. There has only been one or two seruious incidents with the type.

Tom



"Per noctem volamus" - Royal Air Force Bomber Squadron IX
User currently offlineJAGflyer From Canada, joined Aug 2004, 3501 posts, RR: 4
Reply 16, posted (7 years 6 months 2 days 11 hours ago) and read 4355 times:

What routes does KLM use the turboprop Fokkers on?


Support the beer and soda can industry, recycle old airplanes!
User currently offlineSK601 From Belgium, joined Jun 2005, 976 posts, RR: 4
Reply 17, posted (7 years 6 months 2 days 11 hours ago) and read 3995 times:

Quoting JAGflyer (Reply 16):
What routes does KLM use the turboprop Fokkers on?

EIN-LHR
and from AMS to:
MST/LUX/BRU/CGN/HAJ/BRE/DUS/KRS/HUY/NWI/CWL/BRS/LBA/LCY


User currently offlineHumberside From United Kingdom, joined Dec 2005, 4917 posts, RR: 4
Reply 18, posted (7 years 6 months 2 days 11 hours ago) and read 3925 times:

Quoting SK601 (Reply 17):
EIN-LHR

Are they on RTM-LHR as well?



Visit the Air Humberside Website and Forum
User currently offlineAMSSFO From Netherlands, joined Feb 2005, 952 posts, RR: 10
Reply 19, posted (7 years 6 months 2 days 11 hours ago) and read 3913 times:

Quoting Ndebele (Reply 8):
Two additional F100s have been delivered to KLM yesterday: PH-OFO (ex PT-MRS) and PH-OFP (ex PT-MRP).



Quoting MH017 (Reply 13):
Only PH-OFP was delivered yesterday, 31/01/07, as KL7151 from WOE to AMS...PH-OFO will take some more weeks to grace SPL's runway

11462/PT-MRS, the future PH-OFO was recently ferried to WOE for overhaul. It will be delivered to KLM in a couple of weeks.

Quoting EGBJ (Reply 9):
Now that F70/100 production is shut down, and Fokker are long gone, how do KLM maintain these birds? Do they have a hard time sourcing spare parts etc

The Dutch company Stork took over parts of Fokker. So spare parts and maintenace are secured through Fokker Services http://www.fokkerservices.com/


User currently offlineGarri767 From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 20, posted (7 years 6 months 2 days 11 hours ago) and read 3895 times:

Quoting Trinxat (Reply 10):
I hate those fokkers



hey hey hey....kids read this board, watch your langueage!  Silly  Wink (cheap joke, i know :P)

Quoting Trinxat (Reply 10):
I would rather fly on a CRJ

 faint 





I for one have never flown on the fokker , and have nothing to say about it besides i kinda like the way it looks from the exterior. I would however rather try one of the 50s/70s/100s instead of a CRJ200  Wink


User currently offlineSK601 From Belgium, joined Jun 2005, 976 posts, RR: 4
Reply 21, posted (7 years 6 months 2 days 10 hours ago) and read 3754 times:

Quoting Humberside (Reply 18):
Are they on RTM-LHR as well?

yes, I forgot that one..  Cool


User currently offlineKappel From Suriname, joined Jul 2005, 3533 posts, RR: 17
Reply 22, posted (7 years 6 months 2 days 10 hours ago) and read 3556 times:

Quoting YOWza (Reply 3):
Although I would also love to see some Embraers in KL colours.

IMHO you will see a dash8 or ATR in KLM colours first.



L1011,733,734,73G,738,743,744,752,763,772,77W,DC855,DC863,DC930,DC950,MD11,MD88,306,319,320,321,343,346,ARJ85,CR7,E195
User currently offlineKeesje From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 23, posted (7 years 6 months 2 days 10 hours ago) and read 3520 times:

Quoting Aviopic (Reply 14):
do KLM maintain these birds?

KL doesn't.

they do mainly in Norwich

http://www.klmukengineering.co.uk/content/home.asp


User currently offlineAviopic From Netherlands, joined Mar 2004, 2681 posts, RR: 42
Reply 24, posted (7 years 6 months 2 days 10 hours ago) and read 3455 times:

Quoting AMSSFO (Reply 19):
So spare parts and maintenace are secured through Fokker

Apart from the spares and A/C mx(Woensdrecht), component mx(Schiphol) also product engineering, design engineering, customer support, space, elmo(wiring for Airbus, Boeing, JSF etc..), aerostructures(glare and other structural items for A and B etc....).
All in all 10.000 employees still(and/or again) in business and to give a little impression: when I started at Fokker in 1980 we had a total of 6000 people, at the highest peak around 12.000 and at the time Fokker went broke around 8000.



The truth lives in one’s mind, it doesn’t really exist
25 Post contains links SK601 : KLMexel used to fly with the ATR http://www.airliners.net/open.file/0884704/M/
26 Post contains images Lamedianaranja : If they want to stay with jets. Given the high fuel prices isn't it a possibility we may see a switch to larger props? What airline takes delivery of
27 Post contains links Aviopic : I am sorry Keesje but that's incorrect but I don't know what to think of this website. In the past KL/UK did indeed mx for the KL/UK fleet(F100) and
28 Post contains images Sllevin : That's a wicked cool airplane. I gotta get me one of those. Steve
29 Keesje : - KLM E&M does (heavy) airframe checks on F50, F70 and F100 since it took over KLM UK long ago. - F50 Line Miantenance is done at SPL by Nayak - F70/
30 Post contains images Aviopic : Don't agree. For example the ex TAM frames go to WOE for heavy mx and/or overhaul not Norwich, KL E&M is not involved in anything. E&M did not decide
31 Post contains images Kappel : Yeah, forgot about that one So I guess I'm right huh? No, what I mean is KLC of course. IMHO ATR(72) or Dash8(400) will replace the F50 and F70, and
32 Post contains links and images JRadier : like these View Large View MediumPhoto © Howard Chaloner
33 Post contains links and images Keesje : KLM UK Engineering is a full KLM Engineering & Maintenance daugter. It perfroms heavy maintenance on F50, F70, F100, BEA146/ARJ for many years and re
34 DONS : Keesje is right. Even the F70 now goes to NWI for heavy mx, not to Fokker. The ex TAM frames already received it's c-check at TAM. Fokker is only per
35 YOWza : On the off chance that KL are looking for a few more F100s three gathering dust at KTM. They were operated by Cosmic Air till last year but have been
36 AMSSFO : No chance, I would say. Cosmic Air completely stopped flying last year. Two of the 4 Fokker 100s, 11264/9N-AHO and 11351/9N-AHN, have been stored at
37 YOWza : Thanks for the info. I assumed Cosmic was still flying as I saw one of their Fokkers moving around the periphery of KTM recently. YOWza
38 AMSSFO : That's interesting, maybe they restarted flying? They stopped suddenly last October. At that time it was reported by a local newspaper that the fligh
39 LTU932 : I'd like to know that as well. When somebody says Roissy, I instantly think of the airport in Roissy, which is CDG.
40 BA787 : I personally like the Fokkers, and was told by a friend that they were nicer than the company MD-11s. Thanks for all the input to this thread. I hope
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