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1 FEB: Boeing's Order Update  
User currently offlineManni From South Korea, joined Nov 2001, 4221 posts, RR: 22
Posted (7 years 10 months 1 day 5 hours ago) and read 8855 times:

Boeing's new orders for the past week includes 1 777. Again, unidentified. Who's this one for? A VIP customer at Dubai?

Januari was good for 9 unidentified widebodies.


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29 replies: All unread, showing first 25:
 
User currently offlineN328KF From United States of America, joined May 2004, 6491 posts, RR: 3
Reply 1, posted (7 years 10 months 1 day 5 hours ago) and read 8753 times:

Quoting Manni (Thread starter):
Boeing's new orders for the past week includes 1 777. Again, unidentified. Who's this one for? A VIP customer at Dubai?

Solitary orders don't have to be a VIP customer. In fact, if it were such an aircraft, it would have shown as a BBJ order.

This order is probably a regular carrier, doing a top-up.



When they call the roll in the Senate, the Senators do not know whether to answer 'Present' or 'Not guilty.' T.Roosevelt
User currently offlineDAYflyer From United States of America, joined Sep 2004, 3807 posts, RR: 3
Reply 2, posted (7 years 10 months 1 day 5 hours ago) and read 8740 times:

Most likely some airline exercising a leftover option....


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User currently offlineIkramerica From United States of America, joined May 2005, 21562 posts, RR: 59
Reply 3, posted (7 years 10 months 1 day 4 hours ago) and read 8652 times:

Quoting DAYflyer (Reply 2):
Most likely some airline exercising a leftover option....

CO, AA, something like that. With CO's final two 772ERs being built right now, and year end profit reported, they may have decided they needed and could afford 1 more. Then again, they just announced the 739ER conversion, so why wouldn't they announce the 772ER at the same time?



Of all the things to worry about... the Wookie has no pants.
User currently offlineNYC777 From United States of America, joined Jun 2004, 5796 posts, RR: 47
Reply 4, posted (7 years 10 months 23 hours ago) and read 7839 times:

Quoting Stitch (Reply 11):
I'm just wondering if Boeing may not try very hard to send a Dreamliner to LBG...

While it possible technically...The aircraft should be assembled by May or so and if they ran a crash ground test program then it is possible. But really I don't think Boeing wants to push that envelope for the sake of making a marketing splash. It's not their nature.

[Edited 2007-02-01 22:59:20]


That which does not kill me makes me stronger.
User currently offlineHamlet69 From United States of America, joined Mar 2000, 2745 posts, RR: 58
Reply 5, posted (7 years 10 months 20 hours ago) and read 7555 times:

Quoting NYC777 (Reply 13):
The aircraft should be assembled by May or so and if they ran a crash ground test program then it is possible.

First flight is not scheduled until August. So yes, the aircraft would be assembled, but unless the first flight is not only moved forward but changed from a short 2-3 hour test from PAE to BFI to a tranatlantic PAE to LBG -  Wink  Wink - I kinda doubt it. LOL!

Regards,

Hamlet69  profile 



Honor the warriors, not the war.
User currently offlineFlyDreamliner From United States of America, joined Jan 2006, 2759 posts, RR: 15
Reply 6, posted (7 years 10 months 19 hours ago) and read 7208 times:

The A320 / 737 order race is always up in the air, it's hard to know where those will come in. If I'm correct, the earliest A320 delivery slots are sooner than the earliest 737 delivery slots, that doesn't hurt Airbus. That said, WN has been chomping at the bit to get some new metal, there will be a big order there. AA has a big order looming, though it's anyone's guess when that will ever come in. We'll see how FR's expansion continues to go.

But as we know, the races that determine the dollar race are often for the big stuff.

Questions for '07 - how will A380 fair? Any new customers? Likewise, will 747-8i land any of its large potential orders, like BA, China Airlines, Cathay, Qantas, and Emirates.

777 will continue on with another successful year, predictably. Perhaps not as hot as last year, but still another strong year, depending how BA's orders come down. I'd expect some of the US based airlines to start buying some long haul metal to expand their networks. When DL comes out of bk, i wouldn't be surprised if they put in some more 777 orders. 777F will have a good year.

787 will depend on how the program goes. If they continue on track and as promised like they have so far, 787 will see a stellar year. DL could very easily place orders here (as their cash flow is supposed to be positive), likewise NW has 50 options and is projected to make some big cash. The big EK order will central on this as well, and of course BA.

A330F will sell nicely. A330 will probably move a few more units, as it is good and available. A340 is dead.

A350's year will depend on how carriers see the aircraft develop, and if the composite tile bit is found to be acceptable. If it is found acceptable, A350 will have a very good year, if not, it will probably still see at least a decent sales year for an up and coming new jet.

The 100 frame EK order will be really big though, as will BA's.

Bear in mind, sometime in the next few years, the American legacy carriers are going to start in on their longhaul fleets. NW has already bought A330 and 787, and has 744 yet to replace. AA has a huge 767 and A300 fleet to replace, likely be a single family. DL has over 100 767s which will need to start replacement, and it is looking for ever more long haul metal. UA has a huge and old 767 fleet, old 744s, and old 777s. At some point, they are going to start some fleet replacement. CO is pretty topped off for longhaul.



"Let the world change you, and you can change the world"
User currently offlineJustloveplanes From United States of America, joined Jul 2004, 1063 posts, RR: 1
Reply 7, posted (7 years 10 months 15 hours ago) and read 5749 times:

Quoting NYC777 (Reply 13):
While it possible technically...The aircraft should be assembled by May or so and if they ran a crash ground test program then it is possible. But really I don't think Boeing wants to push that envelope for the sake of making a marketing splash. It's not their nature.

If you forget the barrell roll in the Dash 80...............


User currently offlineMrComet From Ireland, joined Mar 2005, 561 posts, RR: 8
Reply 8, posted (7 years 10 months 12 hours ago) and read 5298 times:

Airbus may surprise Boeing and make this a very close year.

With LHR, EK and IB buying jets and all traditional Airbus fans, it could be the A350XWB wins a couple big wins and if the US Legacy carriers delay another year, it may be close. Boeing has a tendency to raise prices whenever they get a chance. It may be a soft enough year (Boeing is predicting 500+ sales) that a few big orders swung one way will bring a rennaissance to the Airbus widebody program. Boeing is sold out heavily on the 787 and the 777 program is also pretty stacked up and the line is slow. The 748i is still a ways off and has a limited customer base. The A320 seems slightly more popular now then the 737. If delays on the 787 line could scramble the field and keep A330 sales spritely and encourage more to wait on the A350XWB.

I wouldn't count Airbus out. It might be an interesting year.



The dude abides
User currently offlinePEET7G From Hungary, joined Jan 2007, 695 posts, RR: 0
Reply 9, posted (7 years 10 months 8 hours ago) and read 4388 times:

For goodness sake people, it is only the end of January, and already members are bashing each other around from both manufacturers cheerleader camp  fight 

I personally think this 777 is a follow on order or an exercising of an option. I agree if it where a VIP customer it might have shown up in the BBJ line.

As far as my predictions, well... here's my guess  stirthepot 

737/320's race: hard to tell from such an evenly matched product, but major factor could be the availability of earlier slots of the A32S, pricing and of course fleet commonality in the case of follow on orders... all in all I expect an evenly match, with a slight edge for the Airbii product.

340's : I think the 340's only stand a chance with the follow on orders or with carriers in need of immediate lift and with money to burn (Etihad's long awaited wide body order comes to mind)

The 330 on the other hand is the savior of Airbus wide body production for sure. This wonderful product will march on for years and will bring excellent order numbers. Especially with the long awaited launch of the freighter variant. I also think it will be a hard bargain option with the 350 sales (just like with SIA) …so all in all, big sales for the 330!

On the 350: hmmm…hard guess…I am sure Airbus will produce a great product, but too many uncertainties are currently in the project, and I don’t think any smart customer will go just on the words of airbus anymore… of course once they get this act together it will be a hot seller, and paired up with an offer of intermediate 330’s I think has good chances.

380’s: Let’s hope everything is on track and once it proves itself I see quit a few major orders for it. However any further disruption in the project will have disastrous effects…

767: don’t see any surprise here…however there is a rumor out that a major order is going to happen for freighter variants, and to be honest I do see good logics in this business case (already discussed in an other thread)

777: HEAD ON!!! Don’t want to type my fingers off, but undoubtedly the best product in it’s class (available) I think only factor limiting its sales is availability and the prospect of next generation competitors, however any of them (350-900, -1000 or the 787-10 or even the -11 if ever) are many years away from entering into service.

747: The 748F is basically the sole product currently selling in its class ( I see no gr8 future for the 380F) and Last year’s long anticipated order form Lufthansa for the 8I version gave new life to my hopes of it becoming a kick ass product

Thats it really short... now go ahead, flame me  flamed 



Peet7G
User currently offlineEI321 From Iraq, joined Jul 2009, 0 posts, RR: 0
Reply 10, posted (7 years 10 months 8 hours ago) and read 4330 times:

Quoting PEET7G (Reply 31):
Thats it really short

you forgot the 787!


User currently offlinePEET7G From Hungary, joined Jan 2007, 695 posts, RR: 0
Reply 11, posted (7 years 10 months 7 hours ago) and read 4283 times:

Quoting EI321 (Reply 32):
you forgot the 787!

Damm, you're right  bigthumbsup 

787: I think orders will slow as the first flight and testing will get under way. If it meets expectations, or even surpasses them (the Boeing guys really have a track of doing so), then I see happy sales ahead... even now I think lack of production slots is a major factor of the slowing flow of orders.

As available slots come closer to the A350's prognosed date of entry into service, I think more and more customers sit back and play the smart waiting game.



Peet7G
User currently offlineNYC777 From United States of America, joined Jun 2004, 5796 posts, RR: 47
Reply 12, posted (7 years 10 months 5 hours ago) and read 3612 times:

Quoting Justloveplanes (Reply 26):
If you forget the barrell roll in the Dash 80...............

Yeah but I thought that was spur of the moment thing by the pilot. I don't think that Boeing actually planned that, did they?
Man that must have taken a pair iron cojones!

[Edited 2007-02-02 16:39:26]


That which does not kill me makes me stronger.
User currently offlineStitch From United States of America, joined Jul 2005, 31259 posts, RR: 85
Reply 13, posted (7 years 10 months 4 hours ago) and read 3395 times:
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Honestly, folks...  Smile

Boeing had a great January in 2006 because China allocated the rest of the 737 order. Boeing aficionados crowed how Boeing was whipping Airbus and Airbus aficionados crowed back that they won the 2005 order race.

Now Airbus had a great January 2007 thanks to the formal launch of the A332F program and two strong A320 family LoIs, and Airbus aficionados are crowing how Airbus is whipping Boeing. And Boeing aficionados are crowing back that they won the 2006 order race.

Same song, just sung in a different tune.  devil   laughing 


User currently offlineFlysherwood From United States of America, joined Jul 2006, 1115 posts, RR: 0
Reply 14, posted (7 years 10 months 3 hours ago) and read 3321 times:

Quoting NYC777 (Reply 35):
Yeah but I thought that was spur of the moment thing by the pilot. I don't think that Boeing actually planned that, did they?
Man that must have taken a pair iron cojones!

I read about the introduction of the Dash 80 about a month ago. The test pilot who pulled the barrell roll came extremely close to being fired on the spot by Boeing. What saved his rear-end was the reaction of the reporters in the conference room before the pilot landed the plane. NO, Boeing does not take chances with its airplanes to make a marketing splash. They let Mr. Leahy do that.


User currently offlineN328KF From United States of America, joined May 2004, 6491 posts, RR: 3
Reply 15, posted (7 years 10 months 3 hours ago) and read 3265 times:

Quoting Manni (Reply 24):
With AA's and DL's 'gentleman agreement' (whoever came up with such a ridiculous name)

It is a standard English term for the de facto state of affairs between Boeing and those carriers. In this specific instance, I believe it was AvWeek who first used this characterization.



When they call the roll in the Senate, the Senators do not know whether to answer 'Present' or 'Not guilty.' T.Roosevelt
User currently offlineStitch From United States of America, joined Jul 2005, 31259 posts, RR: 85
Reply 16, posted (7 years 10 months 3 hours ago) and read 3235 times:
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Quoting N328KF (Reply 42):
It is a standard English term for the de facto state of affairs between Boeing and those carriers. In this specific instance, I believe it was AvWeek who first used this characterization.

Not to mention people forget it was Airbus who first entered into one of these with US for the A320 family.

This act then spurred Boeing to enter into their own agreements.


User currently offlineBoomBoom From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 17, posted (7 years 10 months 3 hours ago) and read 3235 times:

Quoting Manni (Reply 24):
With AA's and DL's 'gentleman agreement' (whoever came up with such a ridiculous name)

It's been around for a long time.

A Gentlemen's agreement is an informal agreement between two parties. It may be written or oral. The essence of a gentleman's agreement is that it relies upon the honour of the parties for its fulfilment, rather than being in any way enforceable. It is, therefore, the opposite of a legal agreement or contract, which can be enforced if necessary.

Examples:

Diplomacy: Britain signed a 'gentlemen's agreement' with Mussolini in 1937 over Naval access to the Mediterranean.

Politics:The agreement by the United States press not to print photographs of President Franklin Roosevelt that showed his wheelchair or leg braces.

Industry: Boeing Commercial Airplanes signed exclusivity contracts with American Airlines, Continental Airlines, and Delta Air Lines in separate but nearly identical arrangements, regarding the supply of airliners. The European Union forced the contracts to be voided when Boeing merged with McDonnell Douglas, but all parties are continuing to adhere to the terms under gentlemen's agreements.


http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gentlemen's_agreement


User currently offlineANCFlyer From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 18, posted (7 years 10 months 2 hours ago) and read 3200 times:

Twenty-Three posts deleted this morning.

Keep this on target without the personal insults and Airbus vs Boeing Commentary.


User currently offlineAMSSFO From Netherlands, joined Feb 2005, 952 posts, RR: 10
Reply 19, posted (7 years 9 months 3 weeks 2 days 10 hours ago) and read 2984 times:

Quoting Manni (Thread starter):
Boeing's new orders for the past week includes 1 777. Again, unidentified. Who's this one for?

KLM has said they ordered 5 77W but on Boeing's website only four have appeared. Also KLM has the habit to place orders in bits and pieces, so it's possible that this is their last planned 77W order.


User currently offlineN328KF From United States of America, joined May 2004, 6491 posts, RR: 3
Reply 20, posted (7 years 9 months 3 weeks 2 days 8 hours ago) and read 2876 times:

Quoting AMSSFO (Reply 20):
KLM has said they ordered 5 77W but on Boeing's website only four have appeared. Also KLM has the habit to place orders in bits and pieces, so it's possible that this is their last planned 77W order.

One is/will be a conversion.



When they call the roll in the Senate, the Senators do not know whether to answer 'Present' or 'Not guilty.' T.Roosevelt
User currently offlineEI321 From Iraq, joined Jul 2009, 0 posts, RR: 0
Reply 21, posted (7 years 9 months 3 weeks 2 days 8 hours ago) and read 2849 times:

Quoting NYC777 (Reply 13):
Quoting Justloveplanes (Reply 26):
If you forget the barrell roll in the Dash 80...............

Yeah but I thought that was spur of the moment thing by the pilot. I don't think that Boeing actually planned that, did they?

Apparently Boeing chiefs nearly had a heart attack when the pilot did that! The video of it looks cool. It dosent roll straight like a fighter jet, more like a display helicopter.

Quoting N328KF (Reply 16):
Quoting Manni (Reply 24):
With AA's and DL's 'gentleman agreement' (whoever came up with such a ridiculous name)

It is a standard English term for the de facto state of affairs between Boeing and those carriers. In this specific instance, I believe it was AvWeek who first used this characterization.

Its like the gentleman's agreement between BMW, Merc and Audi, their cars are all limited to 155mph.

Quoting Stitch (Reply 17):
Quoting N328KF (Reply 42):
It is a standard English term for the de facto state of affairs between Boeing and those carriers. In this specific instance, I believe it was AvWeek who first used this characterization.

Not to mention people forget it was Airbus who first entered into one of these with US for the A320 family.

This act then spurred Boeing to enter into their own agreements.

Are you sure, they have ordered from Bombardier and Embraer since.


User currently offlineN328KF From United States of America, joined May 2004, 6491 posts, RR: 3
Reply 22, posted (7 years 9 months 3 weeks 2 days 5 hours ago) and read 2740 times:

Quoting EI321 (Reply 21):
Its like the gentleman's agreement between BMW, Merc and Audi, their cars are all limited to 155mph.

Japanese manufacturers had something similar for a while, though with respect to horsepoer (276.)

Anyhow, all you have to do is flash the firmware in any modern Audi and, if the powertrain is capable, it will gladly exceed 155mph.

As for new vehicles, Audi does it easily enough — they just call them "Lamborghini" (even though they're mostly built in the same plants as the A4 and A6.)



When they call the roll in the Senate, the Senators do not know whether to answer 'Present' or 'Not guilty.' T.Roosevelt
User currently offlineEI321 From Iraq, joined Jul 2009, 0 posts, RR: 0
Reply 23, posted (7 years 9 months 3 weeks 2 days 5 hours ago) and read 2727 times:

Quoting N328KF (Reply 22):
Quoting EI321 (Reply 21):
Its like the gentleman's agreement between BMW, Merc and Audi, their cars are all limited to 155mph.

Japanese manufacturers had something similar for a while, though with respect to horsepoer (276.)

I thought that was actually passed as a law in Japan?


User currently offlineN328KF From United States of America, joined May 2004, 6491 posts, RR: 3
Reply 24, posted (7 years 9 months 3 weeks 2 days 4 hours ago) and read 2665 times:

Quoting EI321 (Reply 23):
I thought that was actually passed as a law in Japan?

The way I understand it is that the Japanese government said "you restrict your horsepower or we'll make you do it."

However, many such models have a dirty little secret: dyno test them and they'll achieve much higher power, but they are still advertised at 276.



When they call the roll in the Senate, the Senators do not know whether to answer 'Present' or 'Not guilty.' T.Roosevelt
25 AMSSFO : KLM does not have any other 777 types on order. All remaining 777 orders have already been converted to 77W.
26 AMSSFO : Boeing has updated its website and identified several UFO orders from 2005 and 2006: Integrated Defense Systems 1 B737-700 ordered on June 14, 2005 an
27 DEVILFISH : Would air forces' transports be under BBJ and aren't the AEW&C aircraft for Australia, Turkey and Korea based on the 738? Given that this was ordered
28 N328KF : Wedgetails are 737-700ERs. P-8s are 737-800ERs.
29 EI321 : JAL Maybe?
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