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Australia Seeking More Gulf Flights  
User currently offlineCV580Freak From Bahrain, joined Jul 2005, 1033 posts, RR: 0
Posted (7 years 10 months 3 weeks 4 days ago) and read 2573 times:

LOCAL government officials from Australia are in talks with airlines about increasing the number of direct flights to the Gulf

http://www.gulf-daily-news.com/Story...ticle=168899&Sn=BNEW&IssueID=29318


One day you are the pigeon, the next the statue ...
28 replies: All unread, showing first 25:
 
User currently offlineIkramerica From United States of America, joined May 2005, 21582 posts, RR: 59
Reply 1, posted (7 years 10 months 3 weeks 4 days ago) and read 2551 times:

That is a smoke and mirrors article if I've ever read one. It's spinning the event as "Australia" wanting to do x, y, and z when it is evidently only BRISBANE looking to expand links, and officials invited to the Gulf states to talk about it. Thus the headline could easily read: Gulf States look to gain support for more Australia Flights from Regional Politicians.

And sorry, Brisbane is not looking to steal Gulf tourists from Florida, at least not as a primary concern. I mean, if they are basing their growth on that, it wouldn't be a lot of growth. They are looking to find more competitors for QF and others, which is not a bad thing if that's what they want. They feel that most carriers focus on SYD, and then MEL, and BNE gets the short shrift. They know the gulf airlines fly into second cities non-stop, and often must do so first before getting more SYD rights anyway, so it's a "win win." I just don't see why Brisbane aren't more honest about the nature of the talks.

It's all about funneling passengers from Europe to Brisbane directly. With every airline looking to put the A380 into Australia, the more gulf frequencies there are, the more capacity that will be dumped into Australia, which I assume is good for hotels and businesses in Brisbane.



Of all the things to worry about... the Wookie has no pants.
User currently offlineKaitak From Ireland, joined Aug 1999, 12594 posts, RR: 34
Reply 2, posted (7 years 10 months 3 weeks 3 days 23 hours ago) and read 2506 times:

Well, it's a good effort by Brisbane anyway; I admire cities that go the extra mile (!) to bring in new business. Hope they find success. Maybe QR could add it in due course, as well as MEL - assuming they get that?

User currently offlineETA Unknown From Comoros, joined Jun 2001, 2089 posts, RR: 0
Reply 3, posted (7 years 10 months 3 weeks 3 days 21 hours ago) and read 2450 times:

BNE just lost Garuda and will shortly lose the JAL KIX-BNE-SYD-KIX flight, so I guess the city is now aggressively out to woo other foreign carriers.

User currently offlineGemuser From Australia, joined Nov 2003, 5821 posts, RR: 6
Reply 4, posted (7 years 10 months 3 weeks 3 days 20 hours ago) and read 2397 times:

Quoting ETA Unknown (Reply 3):
BNE just lost Garuda and will shortly lose the JAL KIX-BNE-SYD-KIX flight, so I guess the city is now aggressively out to woo other foreign carriers

Will be replaced by JQ on same routing.

Gemuser



DC23468910;B72172273373G73873H74374475275376377L77W;A319 320321332333343;BAe146;C402;DHC6;F27;L188;MD80MD85
User currently offlineQatarA340 From Qatar, joined May 2006, 1883 posts, RR: 10
Reply 5, posted (7 years 10 months 3 weeks 3 days 19 hours ago) and read 2372 times:

Quoting CV580Freak (Thread starter):
LOCAL government officials from Australia are in talks with airlines about increasing the number of direct flights to the Gulf

What a load of BS. When QR wanted daily rights to the country, it was denied twice or even more. Now, the government wants more Gulf airlines? Where did all that love come from?



لا اله الا الله محمد رسول الله
User currently offlineLufthansa From Christmas Island, joined May 1999, 3224 posts, RR: 10
Reply 6, posted (7 years 10 months 3 weeks 3 days 17 hours ago) and read 2265 times:

Quoting Ikramerica (Reply 1):
And sorry, Brisbane is not looking to steal Gulf tourists from Florida, at least not as a primary concern. I mean, if they are basing their growth on that, it wouldn't be a lot of growth.

There is a very good reason for using this arguement. The reason is, that if the City of Brisbane say they want to attract gulf tourists, rather then "a connection to a middle eastern hub", they're directly attacking Qantas. Qantas doesn't serve the M.E region at all... something that politically won't go down well.


User currently offlineBBADXB From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 7, posted (7 years 10 months 3 weeks 3 days 17 hours ago) and read 2247 times:

Brissie & Queensland do well to press harder for more Gulf flights... The demand is surely there. Emirates flights to Brisbane are often full in all classes and it's no wonder. I love Brisbane, ...and Surfers even more. Hope to visit again real soon.

User currently offline6thfreedom From Bermuda, joined Sep 2004, 3339 posts, RR: 20
Reply 8, posted (7 years 10 months 3 weeks 3 days 16 hours ago) and read 2220 times:

Quoting QatarA340 (Reply 5):
What a load of BS. When QR wanted daily rights to the country, it was denied twice or even more. Now, the government wants more Gulf airlines? Where did all that love come from?

No, it is true.
Don't confuse Local and State Governments in Australia with the Federal Government.

Local/State Governmet's such as Victoria (Melbourne) and Queensland (Brisbane) and begging for more capacity.

The problem is that the level of Government that makes the decisions on air services is the Federal Government, on which QF has more influence that even the state governments!


User currently offlineJacobin777 From United States of America, joined Sep 2004, 14968 posts, RR: 59
Reply 9, posted (7 years 10 months 3 weeks 3 days 16 hours ago) and read 2211 times:

Quoting Lufthansa (Reply 6):
There is a very good reason for using this arguement. The reason is, that if the City of Brisbane say they want to attract gulf tourists, rather then "a connection to a middle eastern hub", they're directly attacking Qantas. Qantas doesn't serve the M.E region at all... something that politically won't go down well.

..given how EK has completely taken over the Aussie route, I dont see why QF doesn't offer services...... confused 



"Up the Irons!"
User currently offline6thfreedom From Bermuda, joined Sep 2004, 3339 posts, RR: 20
Reply 10, posted (7 years 10 months 3 weeks 3 days 15 hours ago) and read 2201 times:

Quoting Jacobin777 (Reply 9):
..given how EK has completely taken over the Aussie route, I dont see why QF doesn't offer services......

Hence the forthcoming codeshare with EY.


User currently offlineCurmudgeon From Australia, joined Oct 2006, 695 posts, RR: 22
Reply 11, posted (7 years 10 months 3 weeks 3 days 15 hours ago) and read 2194 times:

Quoting Jacobin777 (Reply 9):
..given how EK has completely taken over the Aussie route, I dont see why QF doesn't offer services......

Because many (if not most) of the seats sold are for European through traffic, and that's a market enjoyed solely by a carrier from the gulf region.

QF may actually be behind all of this, or at least not displeased, for strategic reasons. Etihad seems to be set to become QF's proxy in the region, and once their foot's in the door, a strong case can be made to award additional traffic rights to Etihad instead of EK. (Comparing 56 weekly services to 7 will make any EK argument a tough sell, and any QF code share on Etihad will add weight to blocking EK expansion in Australia.)



Jets are for kids
User currently offlineDon81603 From Canada, joined Jul 2005, 1185 posts, RR: 0
Reply 12, posted (7 years 10 months 3 weeks 3 days 15 hours ago) and read 2189 times:

Quoting ETA Unknown (Reply 3):
I guess the city is now aggressively out to woo other foreign carriers.

Once Air Canada gets their new 772LR's, YYZ to BNE would be a great route, as oppopsed to the YVR-HNL-SYD.

Hey, I can dream can't I?



Eagles may soar, but weasels don't get sucked into jet engines.
User currently offline6thfreedom From Bermuda, joined Sep 2004, 3339 posts, RR: 20
Reply 13, posted (7 years 10 months 3 weeks 3 days 15 hours ago) and read 2180 times:

Quoting Don81603 (Reply 12):
Once Air Canada gets their new 772LR's, YYZ to BNE would be a great route, as oppopsed to the YVR-HNL-SYD.

Hey, I can dream can't I?

a bit off the topic, but since you mentioned it...

what's the latest with AC's YYZ-LAX-SYD services? are they happening?


User currently offlineJacobin777 From United States of America, joined Sep 2004, 14968 posts, RR: 59
Reply 14, posted (7 years 10 months 3 weeks 3 days 15 hours ago) and read 2158 times:

Quoting 6thfreedom (Reply 10):
Quoting Jacobin777 (Reply 9):
..given how EK has completely taken over the Aussie route, I dont see why QF doesn't offer services......

Hence the forthcoming codeshare with EY.

....taking them bloody long enough...EK has been dominant on the Aussie route for years..and EY will still have a long way to go before matching the frequencies and routes EK has.....

Quoting Curmudgeon (Reply 11):
Because many (if not most) of the seats sold are for European through traffic, and that's a market enjoyed solely by a carrier from the gulf region.

I do agree on that point... thumbsup ....however, QF has more than enough rights to fly to DXB..QF has codeshare agreements with OneWorld partner BA (which would allow more flights to LHR), RJ (which is joining OneWorld on 1st April) and even AF (QF codeshares with AF out of SIN) and AZ, etc.....and while QF might not really need BA out of DXB for the Kangaroo route, QF could easily codeshare with AF/KL/AZ to CDG/AMS/MXP etc....that would essentially leave FRA as one of the larger European Airports not served...

Quoting Curmudgeon (Reply 11):

QF may actually be behind all of this, or at least not displeased, for strategic reasons. Etihad seems to be set to become QF's proxy in the region, and once their foot's in the door, a strong case can be made to award additional traffic rights to Etihad instead of EK. (Comparing 56 weekly services to 7 will make any EK argument a tough sell, and any QF code share on Etihad will add weight to blocking EK expansion in Australia.)

....again, QF is way "behind the curve" when it comes to taking on EK..but at least there is some hope.. thumbsup 



"Up the Irons!"
User currently offlineCurmudgeon From Australia, joined Oct 2006, 695 posts, RR: 22
Reply 15, posted (7 years 10 months 3 weeks 3 days 14 hours ago) and read 2143 times:

Quoting Jacobin777 (Reply 14):
I do agree on that point... ....however, QF has more than enough rights to fly to DXB..QF has codeshare agreements with OneWorld partner BA (which would allow more flights to LHR), RJ (which is joining OneWorld on 1st April) and even AF (QF codeshares with AF out of SIN) and AZ, etc.....and while QF might not really need BA out of DXB for the Kangaroo route, QF could easily codeshare with AF/KL/AZ to CDG/AMS/MXP etc....that would essentially leave FRA as one of the larger European Airports not served...

Yes, all of that is true, but QF wants CDG again in it's own right, and there may be some move toward daily rights there from the French apropos to nothing all, especially not recent fleet acquisitions  Wink

Serving LHR or FRA or any other capital city via DXB is not in QF's plan. The real advantage that EK has, and that QF needs to match, is the lift to the many other main and secondary cities in Europe. Since the recent range improvements have shifted the crossroads to the middle east from the far east, Australian traffic can go to/from a wider range of cities, and QF is going to have to lock in a partner based in the region to piggyback on those thinner than traditional QF routes.



Jets are for kids
User currently offlineJacobin777 From United States of America, joined Sep 2004, 14968 posts, RR: 59
Reply 16, posted (7 years 10 months 3 weeks 3 days 14 hours ago) and read 2122 times:

Quoting Curmudgeon (Reply 15):
Serving LHR or FRA or any other capital city via DXB is not in QF's plan. The real advantage that EK has, and that QF needs to match, is the lift to the many other main and secondary cities in Europe. Since the recent range improvements have shifted the crossroads to the middle east from the far east, Australian traffic can go to/from a wider range of cities, and QF is going to have to lock in a partner based in the region to piggyback on those thinner than traditional QF routes.

....we agree on some things, and its the "Serving LHR or FRA or any other capital city via DXB is not in QF's plan" part where I think QF has miserably failed....they completely let the competitor take over many of those big city routes...they should have started from there first and then worked their way down....that's what EK has done and has been quite successful...QF has more than enough 5th freedom rights to serve the smaller cities out of DXB...

...lets see what QF/JQ do with all those B787's coming in.....



"Up the Irons!"
User currently offlineSparklehorse12 From Australia, joined Feb 2007, 908 posts, RR: 1
Reply 17, posted (7 years 10 months 3 weeks 3 days 13 hours ago) and read 2095 times:

It would be great to see more internationals come into BNE. Brisbane has transformed into a modern city in the last 5 years and the old argument of Sydney being the main tourism hub for Australia is no longer.

What I find crazy is that Queensland government don't promote BNE as the gateway to the great barrier reef, Gold Coast and Sunshine Coast which is a huge draw card for inbound traffic. Most operators promote coming via Sydney which is an expensive port to bring passengers through.

During July and August the Gold Coast is full of tourists from the Middle East, so again, it is puzzling Gulf Air or EY don't consider seasonal direct flights to BNE.

SQ & EK 'own' Brisbane. A smart airline would start promoting Brisbane as the best port to come through and I can see that EY could do some damage if they started coming into Brisbane via BKK but that is another thread all together.



Airlines Flown : QF,NW,AA, CX, AC, MH, SQ, DJ, NZ, TG, PG,US, FJ, J8, AN, DD, JQ
User currently offlineCurmudgeon From Australia, joined Oct 2006, 695 posts, RR: 22
Reply 18, posted (7 years 10 months 3 weeks 3 days 12 hours ago) and read 2066 times:

Quoting Jacobin777 (Reply 16):
....we agree on some things, and its the "Serving LHR or FRA or any other capital city via DXB is not in QF's plan" part where I think QF has miserably failed....they completely let the competitor take over many of those big city routes.

Well, I meant that QF serves those cities via BKK and SIN and HKG already. While connections via DXB are going to be possible, I think the traditional connections via Asia are going to be all that QF will manage.

QF is on cusp of seeing its game get changed right before its eyes. The A380 will have an effect on this-preventing any service west of SIN to all but the biggest cities. (LHR and FRA) A380s in the hands of EK and EY will further force commodity pricing on the Kangaroo route, and leave QF without connections or any other selling point to retain its market share.

The natural advantage will pass to EK/EY, based on product and service and connections. To say nothing of their lower cost structures. One of the easiest counters to this is an extensive codeshare program with an aggressive EY.



Jets are for kids
User currently offline6thfreedom From Bermuda, joined Sep 2004, 3339 posts, RR: 20
Reply 19, posted (7 years 10 months 3 weeks 3 days 11 hours ago) and read 2000 times:

Quoting Sparklehorse12 (Reply 17):
SQ & EK 'own' Brisbane

SQ, EK, MH and soon CX own Melbourne as well!
and wait til QR commences!


User currently offlineGemuser From Australia, joined Nov 2003, 5821 posts, RR: 6
Reply 20, posted (7 years 10 months 3 weeks 3 days 10 hours ago) and read 1982 times:

Quoting Curmudgeon (Reply 18):
QF is on cusp of seeing its game get changed right before its eyes. The A380 will have an effect on this-preventing any service west of SIN to all but the biggest cities. (LHR and FRA) A380s in the hands of EK and EY will further force commodity pricing on the Kangaroo route, and leave QF without connections or any other selling point to retain its market share.

Hence QFs need to do "something". Which I belive revolves around non-stop flights to the big three in Europe (LHR, CDG & FRA) and the big 2 in USA (LAX & DFW). In EVERY other market non-stops trumps one (or more) stops. Its not really just the time saved but also the hassel of getting off the aircraft, hanging around the airport for an hour & a half, getting back on the aircraft, etc.

Then they need to develop a hub in eastern Europe to feed their flights, geographically IEV would be perfect, but politically & economically????

Gemuser



DC23468910;B72172273373G73873H74374475275376377L77W;A319 320321332333343;BAe146;C402;DHC6;F27;L188;MD80MD85
User currently offlineAustralia1 From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 21, posted (7 years 10 months 3 weeks 3 days 10 hours ago) and read 1960 times:

Quoting QatarA340 (Reply 5):
What a load of BS. When QR wanted daily rights to the country, it was denied twice or even more. Now, the government wants more Gulf airlines? Where did all that love come from?

you're getting confused between Brisbane Airport/Queensland govt & the federal Australian Govt.

We have so many politicians & public servants in Australia it's ridiculous.

(basically successive labour govts, both state & federal, employ more public servants everytime elected - more jobs for the boys, but many public servants do nothing except shuffle paper - we have all these pen pushers in our health departments, but stuff all doctors/nurses)


User currently offlineCurmudgeon From Australia, joined Oct 2006, 695 posts, RR: 22
Reply 22, posted (7 years 10 months 3 weeks 3 days 10 hours ago) and read 1958 times:

QF is an end-of-route carrier. It relies on its extensive domestic network in Australia to add utility to its long-haul flights.
QF cannot set up hubs outside of Australia (except possibly in SIN to feed its JQ Asian operations). Non-stops to Europe are beyond the technical ability of any aircraft in its fleet, and the demand for such flights is limited anyway, or so QF says.

The tyranny of distance coupled with the reality of finite demand seriously limits QF's options for long haul. JQ may be able to serve leisure markets at a profit, and thus provide some growth for QF- Athens and Rome spring to mind here.

If the new owners adopt draconian measures against QF staff I expect there shall be strikes which will create more opportunity for competing carriers to shine.



Jets are for kids
User currently offlineJacobin777 From United States of America, joined Sep 2004, 14968 posts, RR: 59
Reply 23, posted (7 years 10 months 3 weeks 3 days 1 hour ago) and read 1785 times:

Quoting Curmudgeon (Reply 18):
QF is on cusp of seeing its game get changed right before its eyes. The A380 will have an effect on this-preventing any service west of SIN to all but the biggest cities. (LHR and FRA) A380s in the hands of EK and EY will further force commodity pricing on the Kangaroo route, and leave QF without connections or any other selling point to retain its market share.

..I think that is part of the reason as to why the have ordered 100+ Boeing 787's (options included)....I think they see "the writing on the wall"....while the A380 will be able to add possibly some incremental revenue, it won't be the "game changer" for them like the way the B787 will be....for QF to thrive, they must think outside of the box....they are already being attacked on the "'Roo" Route, and once every carrier and their grandma flies the A380 into SYD, the yields will be trashed even more....if AC gets rights to fly nonstop from LAX-SYD, it will add further pressure to QF's "bread and butter routes"...

..again, I think the best way to tackle some of the European routes would be to take advantage of the various carriers flying into DXB...this will also include carriers such as Tarom, SU, etc....

Quoting Curmudgeon (Reply 18):
The natural advantage will pass to EK/EY, based on product and service and connections. To say nothing of their lower cost structures. One of the easiest counters to this is an extensive codeshare program with an aggressive EY.

...true that EK has a lower cost structure, but flying EK every years for almost a decade, I don't find their prices to be the most competitive....I think people prefer EK for their "total product delivery"....

...I think the extensive codesharing with EY would be a great move by QF and its something which they must take advantage of if they are to stop the EK's and possibly QR's of the world...they are already way late in the race (especially against EK)....

Quoting Curmudgeon (Reply 22):
QF cannot set up hubs outside of Australia (except possibly in SIN to feed its JQ Asian operations). Non-stops to Europe are beyond the technical ability of any aircraft in its fleet, and the demand for such flights is limited anyway, or so QF says.

....setup JQ/SQ in DXB with 787's  stirthepot ...just kidding...though theoretically possible, not practical..

...only time will tell as to what will happen....but QF has their hands full, that is something which I think all of us can agree on... Smile

Regards...



"Up the Irons!"
User currently offlineCV580Freak From Bahrain, joined Jul 2005, 1033 posts, RR: 0
Reply 24, posted (7 years 10 months 3 weeks 3 days ago) and read 1760 times:

You never know, after the delegations visit to Bahrain it might be on GF's new CEO's 'To Do List' to launch Brisbane flights............  duck   duck   duck 


One day you are the pigeon, the next the statue ...
25 Emirates Skies : If QF really wanted to take on Emirates and the rest of the competition, Qantas would have had enough 787s or 77Ws on order to operate Oz-Dubai nonsto
26 Post contains images Jacobin777 : ..again, QF does have every right to setup "shop" in DXB...negotiate with the various countries for landing rights, and as you said, get the crew to
27 ClassicLover : Well they have rights three times a week, wanted to go daily and France said "non". Hence they dropped it and codeshare with AF out of Singapore.
28 CV580Freak : Why would that be ??? Can't see what they could do with all the agreements between Oz and UAE in place
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