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777 Takeoff  
User currently offline3green From Australia, joined Nov 2000, 144 posts, RR: 0
Posted (13 years 8 months 3 weeks 6 days 22 hours ago) and read 2743 times:

Hello, can i ask if anybody here has flown on the Boeing 777, and, if so, do they feel very powerful when takeoff power is applied? I see the size of the engines, especially the GEs, and think, wow, how much do they push you back in your seat? 


32 replies: All unread, showing first 25:
 
User currently offlineModesto2 From United States of America, joined Jul 2000, 2789 posts, RR: 5
Reply 1, posted (13 years 8 months 3 weeks 6 days 20 hours ago) and read 2582 times:

I've been on two United 777's. And yes, they are powerful. However, I wouldn't say that there is a sizable difference between this aircraft and any other jetliner.

User currently offlineUAL747 From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 2, posted (13 years 8 months 3 weeks 6 days 19 hours ago) and read 2530 times:

Try taking off in a 777 with no high loads, ie fuel/pax. I did this not too long ago on the AA777 flight ORD-DFW, man, that thing rotated so fast, I was amazed. The aircraft really has a TON of power. So I would have to disagree with Modesto2 that it feels just like any other aircraft. I have also taken off for long international flights on the 777, ie DFW-NRT, and you still feel the power and ease of which it has getting up into the air. Truly, an incredible aircraft.


User currently offlineA student From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 3, posted (13 years 8 months 3 weeks 6 days 18 hours ago) and read 2501 times:

I have to admit that I was not too impressed with its takeoff power on a Washington-Paris AF flight. It was barely better than an A340. For real acceleration you will have to fly smaller jets, but the 777 is still a beautiful aircraft with bloody impressive engines!

User currently offlineGE From Singapore, joined Mar 2000, 320 posts, RR: 6
Reply 4, posted (13 years 8 months 3 weeks 6 days 17 hours ago) and read 2480 times:

The 777's acceleration is extremely powerful, especially on flights with low loads. I love it's gigantic engines, more so if their GEs.  

User currently offlineRed Panda From Hong Kong, joined Jun 2000, 1521 posts, RR: 0
Reply 5, posted (13 years 8 months 3 weeks 6 days 16 hours ago) and read 2453 times:

I think the feeling of being pushed back to the seat is not just determined by the power of the engines. The load is also an important factor. If the passengers or cargo loads are light, then it would be very very powerful during takeoff. 757 and A320 are planes that you can really feel the power. (w/ light load of course)

User currently offlineSKYTEAM From France, joined Nov 2009, 0 posts, RR: 1
Reply 6, posted (13 years 8 months 3 weeks 6 days 16 hours ago) and read 2443 times:

Yes, It is very powerful. It really puts your back into the seat. It is one of the best feelings in flying!!!!!

SKYTEAM


User currently offlinePrebennorholm From Denmark, joined Mar 2000, 6389 posts, RR: 54
Reply 7, posted (13 years 8 months 3 weeks 6 days 15 hours ago) and read 2440 times:

All airliners have the power they need to have and no more. Twins need more power than quads because all airliners must be able to cope with one engine failure at the most critical time during take off.
The pretty standard runway lengths around the world dictate the power to weight ratio, which is the only thing which means anything to the accelleration.
A twin usually has a power to maximum take-off weight (MTOW) ratio around 3.1 - 3.3 while a quad has a ratio around 3.8 - 4.1. You can check every single airliner type out on the manufacturers' web sites. The 777 is completely in line with other twins, no more, no less.
A large and more efficient wing allows a slightly slower take-off speed and more economic power, and visa versa, therefore the decimals vary a little.
On a long range plane - like for instance a 777 - the max. fuel load is several times heavier than the max payload. When such a bird is used on sectors of only a few thousand miles, and consequently carry a light fuel load, then they have a very favourable power to weight ratio - just like a heavy truck which is missing its trailer.
It would be hard to imagine a more stupid thing than to put too powerful (and too heavy and fuel guzzling) engines on an otherwise good airliner. No airliner manufacturer ever did that.
The only planes which differ are those which were designed for unusually short runways and must accellerate more than other planes. That's planes like the DHC Dash-7 and DC-9-21 (or DC-9 Sport). The latter was only built in ten examples and they are disappearing now.
I have been on a DC-9-21 a few times, but never on short runways. There was no excessive accellaration, obviously because on a standard runway the flight crew cleverly chose to take off at reduced power to minimise external noise, engine wear and fuel burn.
At some airports it may be favourable for noise reduction to make full power take off even with a lightly loaded plane. That's when the airport surroundings are not noise sensitive, but you want to be as high as possible when passing the first populated and noise sensitive area.
All such things may make take-off rolls feel differently, but that has nothing special with the 777 to do. Anyway a 777 (or any other long range plane) may take off in a very lightweight condition even if the cabin is full, while that of course never happens on a fully loaded short or medium range plane which was not designed to carry 100+ tonnes of fuel.
Best regards, Preben Norholm



Always keep your number of landings equal to your number of take-offs, Preben Norholm
User currently offlineAmbasaid From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 8, posted (13 years 8 months 3 weeks 6 days 11 hours ago) and read 2394 times:

I'm surprised that you can tell the difference, airlines vary the amount of engine thrust used depending on the aircrafts weight.
It is possible to reduce the B777's engine thrust by up to 45%. This greatly increases the engine life and reduces costs.
The only time that the B777's acceleration has impressed me was during an empty training sector, light aircraft, crew and 3 pax's, max power was used.... that was fun.


User currently offlineB737-700 From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 9, posted (13 years 8 months 3 weeks 6 days 10 hours ago) and read 2381 times:


Hello,

since I'm still looking forward to my first 777 flight in December, I was glad to hear some of your impressions.
Is a full 777 comparable to a 747 druing climb ?? I mean, does it also climb pretty slow or is it way different from the 747 ?

Thanks a lot,

B737-700


User currently offlineAirnewzealand From New Zealand, joined Oct 2000, 2542 posts, RR: 6
Reply 10, posted (13 years 8 months 3 weeks 6 days 9 hours ago) and read 2375 times:

I recently flew on the 777-200 and 300 and found it to be exactly the same as flying on a normal 767-300. I thought the -300 was more pwerful though
cheers
mikey. 


User currently offlineSydneyBoy From Australia, joined Oct 2000, 8 posts, RR: 0
Reply 11, posted (13 years 8 months 3 weeks 6 days 5 hours ago) and read 2359 times:

I took off in Thai's 777-300 from Don Muang a couple of weeks ago, and WOW. Never been pushed back in my seat like that before, and never heard engines make that sound. More like a racing car than an airliner.

User currently offlineRayChuang From United States of America, joined Jun 2000, 7993 posts, RR: 5
Reply 12, posted (13 years 8 months 3 weeks 6 days 3 hours ago) and read 2353 times:

All I know is watching UA 777-200ER's take off from Runways 28L/28R at SFO for international flights show the plane has pretty impressive takeoff ability even on a fully-loaded flight.

I've seen UA 930 (SFO-NRT) with a 772ER take off in shorter runway distance than JL 001 using a 747-400. The 744's seem to lumber down the runway before rotating for takeoff.


User currently offlineKindalazy From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 13, posted (13 years 8 months 3 weeks 6 days 2 hours ago) and read 2326 times:

I'm looking forward to ATA's new 757's (with winglets?) arriving at MDW. That will be the largest plane to fly from MDW's "short" runways, and I assume max power will be required.....

User currently offlineWannabe From United States of America, joined Jun 1999, 677 posts, RR: 3
Reply 14, posted (13 years 8 months 3 weeks 6 days 1 hour ago) and read 2317 times:

I did a AA 777 flight from DFW to ORD several months back, and it was quick, but not as quick as several 757 departures I've had. The hottest takeoffs I've ever been in were a nearly empty 757 out of BOS about 10 years ago, and a Midway 737-700 out of RDU this past spring. I doubt that a fully loaded 777 can beat a 757 on takeoff performance and rate of climb. Maybe a few pilots can enlighten us?

User currently offlineVirgin744 From United States of America, joined Nov 1999, 919 posts, RR: 4
Reply 15, posted (13 years 8 months 3 weeks 6 days 1 hour ago) and read 2308 times:

Just to translate the figures Prebennorholm quoted into English  

A 777 usually takes off using 'at least' 96% of its engines thrust capability....

And having sat on the same row as one in a window seat, I can testify that they are THE most powerful engines I've had the pleasure of sitting next to. (A bit loud though)!



User currently offlineWannabe From United States of America, joined Jun 1999, 677 posts, RR: 3
Reply 16, posted (13 years 8 months 3 weeks 6 days 1 hour ago) and read 2300 times:

Hey, if you passed that much air, you'd be loud too!!!

User currently offlinePrebennorholm From Denmark, joined Mar 2000, 6389 posts, RR: 54
Reply 17, posted (13 years 8 months 3 weeks 6 days 1 hour ago) and read 2303 times:

This thread has become really trivial reading.
Let me suggest that all following posts on this thread are based on a zerox of the captain's weight and balance sheet.
Full Plane! The weight and balance sheet will tell us if it is 30 tonnes of pax/baggage plus 30 tonnes of fuel, or it is 30 tonnes of pax/baggage plus 130 tonnes of fuel.
Without this data all this talk is pure crap.
Cheers, Preben Norholm



Always keep your number of landings equal to your number of take-offs, Preben Norholm
User currently offlineNa From Germany, joined Dec 1999, 10655 posts, RR: 9
Reply 18, posted (13 years 8 months 3 weeks 6 days 1 hour ago) and read 2299 times:

The most powerful take-off I´ve experienced was not the one on the B777 3 years ago, it was on a short hop with a B744 this year. The aircraft was about 2/3 full but with nearly no cargo at all because it was special flight. The power was incredible.

User currently offlineAdvancedkid From United States of America, joined Jun 2000, 762 posts, RR: 2
Reply 19, posted (13 years 8 months 3 weeks 6 days ago) and read 2297 times:

Hi all,
the 777 doesnt feel any different on take off
from other airliners. Well, I would say the most
powerful feel you would get in the 757.
However if you floy a lot in the back of a 777
or someone told you to notice it, you will indeed
notice while seated in the back end that the tail
kinda pendles left and right very slighty during
cruise. F/A know about it but usually won't tell
about it. My sister worked on most widebody
jets and says when noticed it gets very irritating
and gives headaches at times.
The most stable planes are those with three or
ofcourse 4 engines especially in rough weather
and turbulences.
Regards,
Advancedkid


User currently offlineA340-600 From France, joined Aug 1999, 93 posts, RR: 2
Reply 20, posted (13 years 8 months 3 weeks 5 days 21 hours ago) and read 2277 times:

I agree, b777 is very powerful (CO 777).
It's not a airbus vs boeing war, even I prefer a340 (AF) for the design, I think that it's a good idea to repalce the engines because it climbs very slowly.

B777(CO)/B744(AF) or B742(AF):
I think there is no differences.

I think the most powerful I've ever taken is a319(AF) with low loads.

I've not been on concord(e).


User currently offlineAmbasaid From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 21, posted (13 years 8 months 3 weeks 5 days 20 hours ago) and read 2263 times:

Virgin744, you stated "A 777 usually takes off using 'at least' 96% of its engines thrust capability...."

You are wrong my friend, read my message above. We operate about 20 -200's, the majority of flights are operated using a thrust rating called Derate 1, this is 10% less than the Maximum installed thrust. Crews are then able to input an assumed takeoff temperature to further reduce the takeoff thrust by up to another 25% (Depending on weight.)
Derate 2 is also available and is approx 20% less than installed, once again another 25% can be taken off this by using an assumed temperature.
Legally we must use the full -90B thrust once a month.

By playing with the takeoff thrust we also increase the amount of runway used, so you wont even see a 777 taking off in a short distance. We would much prefer to use all the runway and save the engines.


User currently offlineAA777 From United States of America, joined May 1999, 2544 posts, RR: 28
Reply 22, posted (13 years 8 months 3 weeks 5 days 16 hours ago) and read 2248 times:
Support Airliners.net - become a First Class Member!

I have actually seen this:
A UA777 dearting from BWI had a shorter take-off run than a 737-700...is this possible? I saw it with my own eyes. It was amazing!
-AA777


User currently offlineChi-town From United States of America, joined Sep 2000, 971 posts, RR: 5
Reply 23, posted (13 years 8 months 3 weeks 5 days 15 hours ago) and read 2232 times:

Yes, ive flown on a triple seven (777) United Airlines from DEN to ORD. Amazingly powerful! Trust me, they push you back in your seat plenty! It was a very exciting trip. The seats are 2-5-2 formation. i sat on the right side in the back of the aircraft, me and my brother sat on the 2 seat row. Individual TVs included. I was very impressed with the triple seven. I would definaltey take a trip on one again.

User currently offlineTEDSKI From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 24, posted (13 years 8 months 3 weeks 5 days 15 hours ago) and read 2232 times:

In May of this year I flew on a RR Trent powered Delta 777-200ER from MCO to ATL. With 92,000lbs thrust from each engine (184,000lbs total thrust), this plane was fast rolling down the runway and lifted off the runway climbing quickly and smoothly like a souped up 737. This plane has it over the underpowered 34,000lb thrust (136,000lbs total thrust), CFM56-5C4 powered A340-200/300.

25 Post contains links and images Westjet#1 : two years ago i was able to take a flight from LHR to abu dhabi nad it was on a BA 777-200.....out of all the planes i've flown on that definately wa
26 N949WP : About 2 weeks ago, I flew SEA-NRT on an AA 777 (N784AN). From my window seat on the right-hand side, I figured we lifted off at about the same point o
27 Virgin744 : Ambasaid, I am more than happy to accept your technically sound opinion but I'm sure that each 777 takeoff is different from the next under the circum
28 Sdate747 : I flew on a UA 777 in Jan 1999. Sad part is that a Dobbs International truck banged up the galley door, delaying takeoff for 75 minutes. But they fixe
29 KrisworldB777 : I have to admit that I love flying aboard 777s - even watching them takeoff. I find them a truly amazing aircraft. From Perth, SQ and MH fly 772s so I
30 Ambasaid : I just love some of these statements...... "MH whack it into full thrust which is a feeling I love - SQ are a little more carefull and steadily push i
31 Advancedkid : Krisworld, maybe what you felt was a different angle of attack between the two airlines. Regards, Advancedkid
32 Virgin744 : Ambasaid, Even I was amazed when he (CX Captain) explained this to me but I'm sure he said 96% engine thrust... It makes me think to this day, but I'm
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