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Future Of UA At NRT  
User currently offlineLAXdude1023 From India, joined Sep 2006, 7640 posts, RR: 25
Posted (7 years 7 months 4 weeks 1 day 15 hours ago) and read 6149 times:

I was just wondering what people think about the future of UA at NRT. Recently they announced that they are stopping NRT-HKG. Will we see more of the NRT hub dismantled? Or is this just a one time thing?


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32 replies: All unread, showing first 25:
 
User currently offlineRoseFlyer From United States of America, joined Feb 2004, 9661 posts, RR: 52
Reply 1, posted (7 years 7 months 4 weeks 1 day 14 hours ago) and read 6071 times:

I think NRT will be less of a hub and more of a destination point. Connecting traffic is lower yielding, especially when UA can fly everyone through SFO or ORD.

Now another question is, why does UA fly SEA-NRT but not DEN-NRT. I don't deny the possibility that SEA has more O/D to Japan, but NW already flies the route. DEN is missing an international link and is the second largest hub for UA. United is just an O/D airport with only 2 other non US hub routes (ANC and HNL) in addition to the United Express flights. But with even less connections available in NRT, I guess the link to NRT from DEN is less vital. People can just stop in SFO.



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User currently offlineLaxintl From United States of America, joined May 2000, 25512 posts, RR: 50
Reply 2, posted (7 years 7 months 4 weeks 1 day 13 hours ago) and read 6021 times:

I dont believe you will see US-NRT routes dismantled however UA has for years not been trimming beyond Narita Asia routes.

It used to be China was served via NRT, now they are all nonstops from the US, while NRT-ICN has also seen a frequency reduction as SFO-ICN came on line.
Ultimately as mentioned UA will refocus the Narita operation more on local O&D demand and has been shifting to smaller equipment away from 747s on many NRT services.

Also according to recent UA investor conference, its not long before the carrier launches a deeper alliance with ANA much along the lines of the long established and quite successful Atlantic alliance with LH.



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User currently offlineIADLHR From Italy, joined Apr 2005, 735 posts, RR: 0
Reply 3, posted (7 years 7 months 4 weeks 1 day 13 hours ago) and read 5988 times:

Quoting Laxintl (Reply 2):
Also according to recent UA investor conference, its not long before the carrier launches a deeper alliance with ANA much along the lines of the long established and quite successful Atlantic alliance with LH.

That is something that I think is long overdue. However. for ANA and UA to cooperate much more or to be on the level of UA/LH wouldnt it require an openskies with Japan? That is soemthing that , so far, Japan has been unwilling to negotiate.


User currently offline3201 From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 4, posted (7 years 7 months 4 weeks 1 day 13 hours ago) and read 5994 times:

Quoting RoseFlyer (Reply 1):
Now another question is, why does UA fly SEA-NRT but not DEN-NRT.

They carry a lot of Boeing traffic out of SEA, and get nearly all the DEN-Asia traffic anyway without a nonstop.


User currently onlineB6FA4ever From United States of America, joined Aug 2003, 816 posts, RR: 11
Reply 5, posted (7 years 7 months 4 weeks 1 day 13 hours ago) and read 5976 times:

just to clarify...are these the routes United flies to from NRT to the U.S.?:

HNL
LAX
SFO
SEA
ORD
IAD

~B6FA4ever


User currently offlineWorldTraveler From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 6, posted (7 years 7 months 4 weeks 1 day 12 hours ago) and read 5859 times:

UA would be foolish to quit flying the beyond NRT routes. Those routes - also held by NW- are the most valuable 5th freedom routes in the world. It doesn't matter if UA doesn't use NRT as a connecting hub. There is a local market and UA should figure out a way to capture the traffic - even if it is with 757s or A320s that are connecting with the US via a stop or two across the Pacific.

User currently offlineUnitedNRT From United States of America, joined Aug 2006, 284 posts, RR: 9
Reply 7, posted (7 years 7 months 4 weeks 1 day 12 hours ago) and read 5841 times:

United executive management has a place for Narita as a focus hub, though equipment changes will come.


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User currently offlineFlavio340 From United States of America, joined Oct 2005, 180 posts, RR: 0
Reply 8, posted (7 years 7 months 4 weeks 1 day 12 hours ago) and read 5801 times:

I have asked this question before, is NRT any better than HKG? I think that HKG would be better than NRT for connecting and O&D traffic, why not sell NRT 5th freedom and focus on HKG where you do not have the domestic (NWA) competition, let someone else (AA) deal with NWA out of NRT.

User currently offlineNickofatlanta From Australia, joined May 2000, 1488 posts, RR: 0
Reply 9, posted (7 years 7 months 4 weeks 1 day 11 hours ago) and read 5759 times:

Quoting Flavio340 (Reply 8):
I have asked this question before, is NRT any better than HKG? I think that HKG would be better than NRT for connecting and O&D traffic, why not sell NRT 5th freedom and focus on HKG where you do not have the domestic (NWA) competition, let someone else (AA) deal with NWA out of NRT.

Whilst HKG would be seen by many to be a nicer airport than NRT, NRT's location makes it a far better connection point for North America - Asia traffic than HKG.


User currently offlineHPAEAA From United States of America, joined May 2006, 1024 posts, RR: 1
Reply 10, posted (7 years 7 months 4 weeks 1 day 11 hours ago) and read 5660 times:

hmm.... I would think that UA would want to maintain the slots into NRT.... plus there is alot of traffic from the US to JP... close ties in the corporate world help that... plus doesn't UA have a crew base out there? I thought I remembered that they used NRT to originate the Asian crews to help mitigate cost...


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User currently offlineCentrair From Japan, joined Jan 2005, 3598 posts, RR: 20
Reply 11, posted (7 years 7 months 4 weeks 1 day 11 hours ago) and read 5640 times:

I think we will see UA trim more and maybe even see NW trim a little.

Japan as a stop off is no longer as important as it was even 10 years ago.

UA could turn NRT into a focus and use its Star partnership to feed onward passengers.

Japan is one of those countries where the 787's effect could change the face of long-haul travel. It would allow more carriers to do long-thin over flying Japan. It could also create increased demand for non-stop from Japannese airports other than NRT.



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User currently offlineCaptaintim From Hong Kong, joined Dec 2004, 431 posts, RR: 0
Reply 12, posted (7 years 7 months 4 weeks 1 day 11 hours ago) and read 5640 times:

United Airlines UA Cuts All HKG-NRT -April 28, 07 (by CaptainTim Jan 31 2007 in Civil Aviation)

BAw716 an airline analyst has a very good response on what he thinks of UA's future at NRT.. check it out

tim

i personally think that NRT will continue to be a hub for United just not as significant and major as before...



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User currently offlineLAXdude1023 From India, joined Sep 2006, 7640 posts, RR: 25
Reply 13, posted (7 years 7 months 4 weeks 1 day 10 hours ago) and read 5524 times:

My personal thought on the issue is that NRT-SIN/BKK will be untouched. These are routes that cannot be served nonstop from the US with UA's fleet. I would also like to see HKG-SGN moved to NRT-SGN, so that LAX, IAD, and SEA dont have to stop in SFO or ORD to make the connection in HKG. I think that we can see 320, 757, or 767 for the routes to TPE and ICN. I also think they should have HKG with a 757 or 767 (I know they are canceling it, but I think that would be a good move).


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User currently offlineUnited777atGU From United States of America, joined Oct 2006, 183 posts, RR: 1
Reply 14, posted (7 years 7 months 4 weeks 1 day 10 hours ago) and read 5506 times:

Quoting Flavio340 (Reply 8):
I have asked this question before, is NRT any better than HKG? I think that HKG would be better than NRT for connecting and O&D traffic, why not sell NRT 5th freedom and focus on HKG where you do not have the domestic (NWA) competition, let someone else (AA) deal with NWA out of NRT.



Quoting Nickofatlanta (Reply 9):
Whilst HKG would be seen by many to be a nicer airport than NRT, NRT's location makes it a far better connection point for North America - Asia traffic than HKG.

In addition, UA has NH at NRT whereas they have no one at HKG. In fact, they would be facing CX there--that's a no-no. It's not Star territory. AA would be smart to take advantage of HKG/CX. If UA did move Asian connections to HKG, CX would tell AA to get their butts over there stat. UA uses NRT well, and we love Asia, so NRT will be going nowhere anytime soon. What I think UA is doing is just trying to get the maximum utilization out of its fleet by pulling on some of its aircraft at NRT, trying to make more non-stop options for US Citizens/international travelers, and also open new routes to increase revenue and profitability. It's not a bad thing at all.

Maybe when we get some new planes they'll throw some 763s over the Pacific? Either way, the market share they have at NRT will keep UA there for some time to come.

I'd like to think that if they found more new/profitable routes that they would fly them and then maybe lease just a couple of the slots at NRT to make more money?? (provided that, in this scenario, they still do not have enough aircraft). So for example, if they started IAD-DXB and found it a beauty in terms of profitability, they get some planes from NRT, lease the 2 slots to somebody for a time until they get the new planes, and make them pay a pretty penny for them...

What do I know.

[Edited 2007-02-05 06:22:38]


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User currently offlineJimyvr From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 15, posted (7 years 7 months 4 weeks 1 day 9 hours ago) and read 5463 times:

UNITED says Tokyo will always be its primary hub despite some routes are bypassing Tokyo. This was mentione din November

ANA is offering 1-stop 2ndary cities to China on same day basis, and few other cities where other hubs, particularly Beijing and Shanghai are not possbie


User currently offlineUAL777UK From United Kingdom, joined Nov 2005, 3356 posts, RR: 1
Reply 16, posted (7 years 7 months 4 weeks 1 day 3 hours ago) and read 5291 times:

NRT will remain a major focus city for UA for years to come, as will LHR when open skies is agreed sometime in the next 10 years!!!

User currently offlineGemini573 From United States of America, joined Jan 2007, 146 posts, RR: 0
Reply 17, posted (7 years 7 months 4 weeks 21 hours ago) and read 5097 times:

Quoting LAXdude1023 (Reply 13):
I think that we can see 320, 757, or 767 for the routes to TPE and ICN. I also think they should have HKG with a 757 or 767 (I know they are canceling it, but I think that would be a good move).

I highly doubt that will happen for UA. You would have to have a whole new set of crew who are trained to work or fly those birds.


User currently offlineStitch From United States of America, joined Jul 2005, 31055 posts, RR: 87
Reply 18, posted (7 years 7 months 4 weeks 21 hours ago) and read 5084 times:
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Quoting LAXdude1023 (Thread starter):
I was just wondering what people think about the future of UA at NRT.

I expect NRT will remain UA's Asian hub, but increasing non-stop service from the SFO, ORD and IAD hubs will reduce the number of intra-Asia cities served by NRT and/or the number of frequencies.

Quoting RoseFlyer (Reply 1):
Now another question is, why does UA fly SEA-NRT but not DEN-NRT. I

Because it's quite easy for DEN customers to fly to SEA to grab UA875 and to head to DEN after taking UA876 to SEA. Also, SEA-NRT does very well during baseball season thanks to charters and while loads are much lighter off-season, paid Business and First Class ticket sales are decent (even with Microsoft using NW) so the route is a good revenue generator for UA.


User currently offlinePlaneGuy27 From United States of America, joined Jan 2004, 314 posts, RR: 0
Reply 19, posted (7 years 7 months 4 weeks 19 hours ago) and read 4969 times:

Quoting LAXdude1023 (Reply 13):
I would also like to see HKG-SGN moved to NRT-SGN, so that LAX, IAD, and SEA dont have to stop in SFO or ORD to make the connection in HKG.

The U.S.-Vietnam bilateral agreement signed in 2003 does not allow U.S. carriers to carry local traffic between Japan and Vietnam. That is why they do it from Hong Kong.

http://www.state.gov/documents/organization/35898.pdf


User currently offlineSFORunner From United States of America, joined Jul 2004, 325 posts, RR: 0
Reply 20, posted (7 years 7 months 4 weeks 19 hours ago) and read 4918 times:

Quoting LAXdude1023 (Reply 13):
I would also like to see HKG-SGN moved to NRT-SGN, so that LAX, IAD, and SEA dont have to stop in SFO or ORD to make the connection in HKG.

Star Alliance partner NH flies NRT - SGN four days a week on a 763. With a 6pm-ish departure, the flight is well timed to meet in-bound UA flights from the USA.

It's hard to see UA succeeding with a potentially larger aircraft (777) and daily frequency if NH can't make it "work" - assuming aircraft availability is the primary factor restricting service to 4x weekly.


User currently offlineUA772IAD From Australia, joined Jul 2004, 1730 posts, RR: 3
Reply 21, posted (7 years 7 months 4 weeks 16 hours ago) and read 4404 times:

Quoting RoseFlyer (Reply 1):
DEN is missing an international link and is the second largest hub for UA.

Actually, DEN is 4th, behind ORD, SFO and IAD.

Quoting RoseFlyer (Reply 1):
Now another question is, why does UA fly SEA-NRT but not DEN-NRT.

As others have said, it is very easy for DEN passengers to fly to SEA, LAX, SFO or HNL to catch a flight to NRT. If UA were to operate a long international route out of DEN, it would be when they have 787s. FRA would probably be the first.


User currently offlineLAXdude1023 From India, joined Sep 2006, 7640 posts, RR: 25
Reply 22, posted (7 years 7 months 4 weeks 16 hours ago) and read 4290 times:

Quoting PlaneGuy27 (Reply 19):
The U.S.-Vietnam bilateral agreement signed in 2003 does not allow U.S. carriers to carry local traffic between Japan and Vietnam. That is why they do it from Hong Kong.

Ok, cool. I didnt know that.

I do think if UA could codeshare with NH to the point where people can get 100% milage accural instead of 70% they could shut down NRT and let NH handle all of it if they wanted to.



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User currently offlineStitch From United States of America, joined Jul 2005, 31055 posts, RR: 87
Reply 23, posted (7 years 7 months 4 weeks 16 hours ago) and read 4274 times:
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Quoting LAXdude1023 (Reply 22):
I do think if UA could codeshare with NH to the point where people can get 100% milage accural instead of 70% they could shut down NRT and let NH handle all of it if they wanted to.

Until UA SWUs and MUAs work on NH, that's not going to happen.  Smile

The Star Alliance Upgrade Awards are a start, but they're far inferior to UA Mileage Plus upgrades on UA metal.


User currently offlineLAXdude1023 From India, joined Sep 2006, 7640 posts, RR: 25
Reply 24, posted (7 years 7 months 4 weeks 16 hours ago) and read 4257 times:

Quoting PlaneGuy27 (Reply 19):
The U.S.-Vietnam bilateral agreement signed in 2003 does not allow U.S. carriers to carry local traffic between Japan and Vietnam. That is why they do it from Hong Kong.

Ok, cool. I didnt know that.

I do think if UA could codeshare with NH to the point where people can get 100% milage accural instead of 70% they could shut down NRT and let NH handle all of it if they wanted to.



Stewed...Lewd...Crude...Irreverent...Belligerent
25 Venezuela747 : It also seems that UA wants to keep DEN as a domestic only hub...or at least North America only
26 Hiflyer : Folks..a lot of this is due to there are only so many frames at UA right now....and the drumbeat is max utilization. However...take notice of the refi
27 Gigneil : What? No. Not even sort of man. DEN is UA's second largest hub by a very very wide margin. You might be thinking of per passenger revenue, which is h
28 UA772IAD : Yes, I was thinking in terms of passenger revenue. My bad[Edited 2007-02-06 02:34:01]
29 Gigneil : I think United could do more to increase per pax revenue at DEN, but selfishly I am enjoying the buildup of service at Dulles. NS
30 United777atGU : Don't you love it!!?? More to come, I hope... Someone's putting the puzzle together...
31 Post contains images United767 : I can't wait to see what UA does next at IAD!
32 UAL777UK : I hope your right, they need to order some new metal to stay competitive and expand Internationally.....bring on the 787 and 747-8i India....when the
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