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Finnair Expects Deal On A350 Compensation  
User currently offlineFlying-Tiger From Germany, joined Aug 1999, 4161 posts, RR: 36
Posted (7 years 7 months 2 weeks 13 hours ago) and read 3362 times:

- keeps A50XWB order for 9+4 frames
- will confirm plan for "transition aircraft" (more A340-300?) soon

Quote:
Finnair Oyj (FIA1S.HE) Tuesday said it expects to reach an agreement with commercial plane maker Airbus in the near future on compensation for delays to deliveries of the Airbus A350.



Quote:
In its fourth-quarter earnings statement, Finnair said it ordered nine Airbus A350s with options for four more. The first delivery of the plane will now occur in 2014, compared with an original delivery schedule of 2012-2015.

"We expect to conclude to negotiations with Airbus Industrie in the near future and confirm a plan for aircraft acquisitions during a transition period," the airline said in its statement.

http://www.marketwatch.com/news/stor...F93-B8F6-4B92-9054-0ED17F3A49A9%7D


Flown: A319/320/321,A332/3,A380,AT4,AT7,B732/3/4/5/7/8,B742/4,B762/763,B772,CR2,CR7,ER4,E70,E75,F50/70,M11,L15,S20
15 replies: All unread, jump to last
 
User currently onlineRuscoe From Australia, joined Aug 1999, 1566 posts, RR: 2
Reply 1, posted (7 years 7 months 2 weeks 12 hours ago) and read 3266 times:

This is a serious question.
Did Finnair even consider Boeing aircraft?

Ruscoe


User currently offlineScouseflyer From United Kingdom, joined Apr 2006, 3390 posts, RR: 9
Reply 2, posted (7 years 7 months 2 weeks 12 hours ago) and read 3230 times:

Good news so that makes 11 firm A350XWB orders and 91 old A350s to reconfirm.

It's about time that SQ confirmed their 20 isn't it


User currently offlineTinkerBelle From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 3, posted (7 years 7 months 2 weeks 12 hours ago) and read 3184 times:

Quoting Scouseflyer (Reply 2):
It's about time that SQ confirmed their 20 isn't it

It's still a paper plane that hasn't been frozen so probably too early.

If customers who ordered the previous A350 start asking for compensation, this cannot be good for Airbus.


User currently offlineScouseflyer From United Kingdom, joined Apr 2006, 3390 posts, RR: 9
Reply 4, posted (7 years 7 months 2 weeks 12 hours ago) and read 3161 times:

Quoting TinkerBelle (Reply 3):
If customers who ordered the previous A350 start asking for compensation, this cannot be good for Airbus.

Except that they will of factored that into the decision as to whether to make the XWB version when they already had firm orders for the old one. Ie the cost of compensation will be more than outweighed by the extra profit that they will make on the extra planes that they will sell of the new version - I think IIRC that this cost has already been written down in last years accounts


User currently offlineCloudyapple From Hong Kong, joined Jul 2005, 2454 posts, RR: 9
Reply 5, posted (7 years 7 months 2 weeks 11 hours ago) and read 3028 times:

Quoting Flying-Tiger (Thread starter):
confirm a plan for aircraft acquisitions during a transition period

This caught my attention - more A343s or new A346s for the 7 year wait?



A310/A319/20/21/A332/3/A343/6/A388/B732/5/7/8/B742/S/4/B752/B763/B772/3/W/E145/J41/MD11/83/90
User currently offlineThorben From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 6, posted (7 years 7 months 2 weeks 7 hours ago) and read 2708 times:

Quoting TinkerBelle (Reply 3):
If customers who ordered the previous A350 start asking for compensation, this cannot be good for Airbus.

? What did you expect them to do? They have a contract and Airbus doesn't fulfill what they committed to do.

Quoting Cloudyapple (Reply 5):

This caught my attention - more A343s or new A346s for the 7 year wait?

A346? Holy shhhh... I never thought of those, they might be too large, but they would be very pretty in AY colours.


User currently offlineStitch From United States of America, joined Jul 2005, 30978 posts, RR: 86
Reply 7, posted (7 years 7 months 2 weeks 7 hours ago) and read 2688 times:
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Quoting Ruscoe (Reply 1):
Did Finnair even consider Boeing aircraft?

I imagine they did, but the A350XB gives them a direct replacement path for their A343s and MD-11s. And AY's non-charter narrowbody fleet is all Airbus. Taken together, imagine Boeing's chances were never very good about landing an order with the 787 family.


User currently offlineTeamAmerica From United States of America, joined Sep 2006, 1761 posts, RR: 23
Reply 8, posted (7 years 7 months 2 weeks 7 hours ago) and read 2663 times:

Quoting Scouseflyer (Reply 2):
Good news so that makes 11 firm A350XWB orders

No, let's not jump the gun. Finnair is still negotiating, so these are not firm yet.

The most notable thing in the article:
"Interestingly, the Finnish airline said it will receive the revamped A350 XWB aircraft it has ordered at the same price it agreed to pay for the original A350."

If true, this would set a bitter precedent for Airbus. We could see all 100 existing A350 orders go to the XWB at bargain prices. Airbus faces ever increasing development costs with a return on investment pushed yet further into the future.



Failure is not an option; it's an outcome.
User currently offlineEFHK From Finland, joined Nov 2006, 392 posts, RR: 0
Reply 9, posted (7 years 7 months 2 weeks 6 hours ago) and read 2587 times:

Quoting Ruscoe (Reply 1):
Did Finnair even consider Boeing aircraft?

Sure they did, but the fleet commonality with Airbus short-haul models and being one of the launch customers were big enough reasons to go Airbus. They have also said about the price that it was "like getting a Mercedes for a price of Lada", so I think you'll get my point.

Quoting Thorben (Reply 6):
A346? Holy shhhh... I never thought of those, they might be too large, but they would be very pretty in AY colours.

With an average load factor of about 75-80% on Asian routes, A346 seems (unfortunately) too big for AY.

2014, that's a LONG time though. For seven years we must settle with replacement aircraft and MD-11s. Financially, probably not that good, from an aviation enthusiast's viewpoint, it's just good. Big grin



One of the best places in the world: McDonald's in T2 at FRA.
User currently offlineClassicLover From Ireland, joined Mar 2004, 4636 posts, RR: 23
Reply 10, posted (7 years 7 months 2 weeks 3 hours ago) and read 2419 times:

Quoting Ruscoe (Reply 1):
This is a serious question.
Did Finnair even consider Boeing aircraft?

Well, the MD-11 with Finnair seats somewhere around 300 people, so I imagine they want similar or slightly bigger - and the 787 doesn't really fit in the 300+ seat category.

Quoting TeamAmerica (Reply 8):
"Interestingly, the Finnish airline said it will receive the revamped A350 XWB aircraft it has ordered at the same price it agreed to pay for the original A350."

They have been saying this since the beginning - which is why they said they had no issues as they were getting a better aircraft for the same price. Would love to see that contract!



I do quite enjoy a spot of flying - more so when it's not in Economy!
User currently offlineThorben From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 11, posted (7 years 7 months 1 week 6 days 14 hours ago) and read 2203 times:

Quoting EFHK (Reply 9):
With an average load factor of about 75-80% on Asian routes, A346 seems (unfortunately) too big for AY.

Yep, but let's see whether that grows a little bit.

Quoting EFHK (Reply 9):
2014, that's a LONG time though. For seven years we must settle with replacement aircraft and MD-11s. Financially, probably not that good, from an aviation enthusiast's viewpoint, it's just good. Big grin

Always nice to see at least some trijets.


User currently offlineJacobin777 From United States of America, joined Sep 2004, 14968 posts, RR: 59
Reply 12, posted (7 years 7 months 1 week 6 days 13 hours ago) and read 2165 times:

Quoting TeamAmerica (Reply 8):
If true, this would set a bitter precedent for Airbus. We could see all 100 existing A350 orders go to the XWB at bargain prices. Airbus faces ever increasing development costs with a return on investment pushed yet further into the future.

....actually the CEO of IT (Mallya) was mentioning the same thing recently..and I wouldn't be suprised to see QR demand the same thing.....



"Up the Irons!"
User currently offlineTope98 From Venezuela, joined Dec 2005, 82 posts, RR: 0
Reply 13, posted (7 years 7 months 1 week 6 days 9 hours ago) and read 1979 times:

what is A350´s status?. I got lost between A350, A350XWB and some other version that could have came up after those 2.

Saludos,


User currently offlineStitch From United States of America, joined Jul 2005, 30978 posts, RR: 86
Reply 14, posted (7 years 7 months 1 week 6 days 9 hours ago) and read 1953 times:
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Quoting Tope98 (Reply 13):
what is A350´s status?. I got lost between A350, A350XWB and some other version that could have came up after those 2.

It's received its "industrial launch", which means they are lining up suppliers, figuring out how to build it, where to build it and what to build it out of, and formally taking orders.


User currently offlineAstuteman From United Kingdom, joined Jan 2005, 10025 posts, RR: 96
Reply 15, posted (7 years 7 months 1 week 6 days 8 hours ago) and read 1900 times:
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Quoting TeamAmerica (Reply 8):
If true, this would set a bitter precedent for Airbus. We could see all 100 existing A350 orders go to the XWB at bargain prices. Airbus faces ever increasing development costs with a return on investment pushed yet further into the future

Although it doesn't change reality, IIRC Airbus has written off the difference in the "lower" realised sale price for existing contracts as part of the E1Bn write down which was made last year upon cancellation of the "old" A350 programme, thus starting the XWB programme off with a genuine "clean sheet".

Regards


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