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DL's 'other' Pacific Routes  
User currently offlineFLY777UAL From United States of America, joined May 1999, 4512 posts, RR: 3
Posted (15 years 4 months 2 weeks 6 days 17 hours ago) and read 829 times:

Why did DL cancel their flights to TPE, HKG, BKK, and SEL? I was always under the impression that DL was doing very well with these flights. In addition, does DL have any plans to re-start these flights, or have the route authorities been sold to someone else?

Thanks very, very much in advance,

FLY777UAL

21 replies: All unread, jump to last
 
User currently offlineThe777Man From United States of America, joined Jul 1999, 6645 posts, RR: 55
Reply 1, posted (15 years 4 months 2 weeks 5 days 20 hours ago) and read 830 times:

I think they had a hard time competing for F and C class passengers plus they didn't have enough feeding traffic in PDX or LAX. I also think that a lot of passengers, particualary in Asia, don't like M11s. I don't see DL going back to those cities unless they get more 777s and decide to have more flights to the US west coast. They have around fifty flights to LAX and PDX could also use a better feed.Maybe they should have more flights to/from either PDX or SLC so they would have a real west coast hub?


Need a Boeing 777 Firing Order....Further to fly....CI, MU, LX and LH 777s
User currently offlineCX747 From United States of America, joined May 1999, 4454 posts, RR: 5
Reply 2, posted (15 years 4 months 2 weeks 5 days 18 hours ago) and read 829 times:

I do know that Delta stopped operating into HKG because their MD-11s were unable to carry a profitable number of pax that great a distance. They were really pushing the envelope of the MD-11s range. F.Y.I All of their competitors on the HKG route operated and continue to operate the 747-400.


"History does not long entrust the care of freedom to the weak or timid." D. Eisenhower
User currently offlineUal1636 From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 3, posted (15 years 4 months 2 weeks 5 days 17 hours ago) and read 829 times:

Delta never served BKK i know this cuz i have been to BKK on Delta/Swissair. If u wanted to go to BKK from the US on Delta you would have to take Swissair from Zurich to Bangkok. You would have to fly from your starting city to ATL or CVG then CVG or ATL to ZRH then go from ZRH to BKK on SR.

User currently offlineFLY777UAL From United States of America, joined May 1999, 4512 posts, RR: 3
Reply 4, posted (15 years 4 months 2 weeks 5 days 14 hours ago) and read 829 times:

Actually, DL did serve BKK. I have a timetable of DL's with BKK listed (not a SR), and I also have numerous pictures of DL's MD-11's in BKK. Trust me, they were there for a while.

FLY777UAL


User currently offlineUal1636 From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 5, posted (15 years 4 months 2 weeks 5 days 14 hours ago) and read 829 times:

Not when i was makin my reservations.

User currently offlineFLY777UAL From United States of America, joined May 1999, 4512 posts, RR: 3
Reply 6, posted (15 years 4 months 2 weeks 5 days 14 hours ago) and read 829 times:

Oh well...they were in BKK for a while, until they suspended all HKG, TPE, and BKK ops.

FLY777UAL


User currently offlineFly us airways From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 7, posted (15 years 4 months 2 weeks 5 days 5 hours ago) and read 828 times:

UAL1636, when were you trying to go. I used to fly Delta a lot, and I know several years ago they used to fly BKK. In fact, you know those posters say a destination and a popular landmark in that city (eg London and London Bridge or Big Ben, or NY and World Trade Center), well in TPA they still have posters from their Asia destinations-Tokyo, Seoul, BKK, and HKG.

I don't know what they are doing now since I stopped flying them when they cut back service. Unfortunately, they are the only airline to atlanta. Sorry, I forgot, this is not an airline bashing session. Sorry

Fly US Airways


User currently offlineCedarjet From United Kingdom, joined May 1999, 8171 posts, RR: 54
Reply 8, posted (15 years 4 months 2 weeks 5 days 5 hours ago) and read 829 times:

Ual1636, you're rather stubborn, aren't you? Of course DL operated to BKK, I saw them there many times.

Not an airline bashing sesh? Oh well, here goes anyway. DELTA ARE SUCH COWARDS! Why do they insist on making such STUPID equipment decisions? Of course you can't make money flying MD11s from LA to HKK and the rest of the Pacific. Little niche routes from little Portland to Tokyo or Nagoya (!) perhaps, but Pan Am sold their Pacific route primarily cos they didn't have the right equipment (747-100s) and couldn't afford to fix things (by buying 747-400s). If Delta were serious they would have bought half a dozen 747-400s and they'd still be making money on the routes. Now they're missing the boat again (I know I've gone on about this before but it still does my head in) by buying 767-400s which will be good for nothing. They blew it on the Pacific by not operating 747s and now they're going to blow it on the Atlantic by not operating 777s. They are the new Pan Am.



fly Saha Air 707s daily from Tehran's downtown Mehrabad to Mashhad, Kish Island and Ahwaz
User currently offlineUal1636 From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 9, posted (15 years 4 months 2 weeks 5 days 2 hours ago) and read 828 times:

Well maybe Delta served BKK in the 80s or early 90s, but for the past couple of years if u wanted to go to BKK on Delta you would have to take a codeshare Swissair flight.

User currently offlineCX747 From United States of America, joined May 1999, 4454 posts, RR: 5
Reply 10, posted (15 years 4 months 2 weeks 5 days 2 hours ago) and read 828 times:

I also think that Delta would be best served if they ordered or had ordered 747-400s.


"History does not long entrust the care of freedom to the weak or timid." D. Eisenhower
User currently offlineMD-11 From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 11, posted (15 years 4 months 2 weeks 5 days 1 hour ago) and read 828 times:

I don't know to what extent Delta's MD-11s have been updated and improved with the various performance improvement options that have become available to the MD-11 with time, but when configured with all of these, the MD-11 actually can make quite nicely money on the Pacific as it can carry about 330 passengers a distance of 13000 km.

User currently offlineCedarjet From United Kingdom, joined May 1999, 8171 posts, RR: 54
Reply 12, posted (15 years 4 months 2 weeks 5 days 1 hour ago) and read 829 times:

330 pax / 13000km? Maybe on paper. But that's in still air, not with a mighty tradewind to fight against all the way from California. And another thing. Those stats would have been calculated to show the best possible performance of a plane, and you ain't gonna get that in 36 degree (can't find a little degree icon anywhere) heat at HKK baby. If the MD11 was right for the route then other people would be flying it, especially in quiet travel periods. You need 747-400s or A340s to do those kind of flights. Also, that MD11 scenario doesn't mention cargo payloads. I bet that's with empty cargo bins, massive weight penalty that is hidden by the 330 pax figure. The MD11 is good for things like New York to Geneva or Helsinki, 8 hour flights. Then you can make money.

Delta wanted the kudos of a few choice Pacific routes, ie LAX to Taipei, Tokyo and HKK, but they weren't prepared to make the investments in equipment etc to do it right. Amazing that such a half-arsed attempt lasted as long as it did.



fly Saha Air 707s daily from Tehran's downtown Mehrabad to Mashhad, Kish Island and Ahwaz
User currently offlineMD-11 From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 13, posted (15 years 4 months 2 weeks 5 days 1 hour ago) and read 829 times:

Yes that figure is on paper, but isn't every figure anyone ever references one that is "on paper"? The MD-11's performance that I mentioned is practically identical to the 777-200IGW's performance on paper, which is also in still air without head winds, and all that, although the 777 maybe can carry somewhat more cargo on top of that.

Anyway, the "optimal" MD-11 is good for flights of up to 14.5 hours, not just 8 hours, and it can be fairly economical in doing so too. That information is from an MD-11 pilot among other sources.


User currently offlineTranStar From United States of America, joined Jul 1999, 530 posts, RR: 0
Reply 14, posted (15 years 4 months 2 weeks 4 days 22 hours ago) and read 829 times:
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Don't forget the Asian financial crisis which really blew transpacific profits out the water for a while.

User currently offlineCedarjet From United Kingdom, joined May 1999, 8171 posts, RR: 54
Reply 15, posted (15 years 4 months 2 weeks 4 days 21 hours ago) and read 829 times:

nt


fly Saha Air 707s daily from Tehran's downtown Mehrabad to Mashhad, Kish Island and Ahwaz
User currently offlineJetlag From Canada, joined Oct 2005, 0 posts, RR: 0
Reply 16, posted (15 years 4 months 2 weeks 4 days 21 hours ago) and read 829 times:

The Asian Crisis never effected DL's flights to TPE, BKK and HKG. DL had pulled out a few years before the crisis even began to appear. Also, PanAm didn't sell their Pacific routes to UAL because they lacked equipment! Pan Am was hurting so badly for money, and UAL was there to provide it for them. Why do you think Pan Am had their full SP's going to HKG all the time?

Regards,
Jetlag


User currently offlineUal1636 From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 17, posted (15 years 4 months 2 weeks 4 days 21 hours ago) and read 828 times:

Man, what the hell do u think. Of course. Thats why i said that when i was makin reservations i could only get Swissair instead of Delta. Ive been to BKK 5 times. Have you ever been to BKK cedarjet?(i highly doubt it)

User currently offlineCX747 From United States of America, joined May 1999, 4454 posts, RR: 5
Reply 18, posted (15 years 4 months 2 weeks 4 days 19 hours ago) and read 831 times:

The MD-11 obviously can not fly the pacific routes as well as the 747-400 and A340. That is why you do not see that many MD-11s plying that route. The 777 also has the same problems. If you look at the 777s operating in Asia you will see that they stay in the region on high density routes. An example is Cathay Pacific. Their 19 747-400s and 11 A340-300s ply the transpacific and european routes while the A330-300 and 777-200/300 fly the shorter in-region flights. Cedarjet you and I are actually agreeing on something isn't that amazing?


"History does not long entrust the care of freedom to the weak or timid." D. Eisenhower
User currently offlineCedarjet From United Kingdom, joined May 1999, 8171 posts, RR: 54
Reply 19, posted (15 years 4 months 2 weeks 4 days 19 hours ago) and read 828 times:

CX747, glad we agree, many of my best flights as a passenger have been on your namesake. And none on an MD11, I hasten to add.

Ual1636, how many times have I flown into BKK?! Do you mean as a passenger (lost count about 1992 but way past 30) or crew (at least a dozen)?



fly Saha Air 707s daily from Tehran's downtown Mehrabad to Mashhad, Kish Island and Ahwaz
User currently offlineUal1636 From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 20, posted (15 years 4 months 2 weeks 4 days 16 hours ago) and read 830 times:

OK whatever you dumb brit.

User currently offlineFLY777UAL From United States of America, joined May 1999, 4512 posts, RR: 3
Reply 21, posted (15 years 4 months 2 weeks 4 days 16 hours ago) and read 828 times:

Oh come on...why get yourself worked up about a plane and a comment that Cedarjet made? You sound like a 10 year old when you do that.

FLY777UAL


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