Sponsor Message:
Civil Aviation Forum
My Starred Topics | Profile | New Topic | Forum Index | Help | Search 
2 KL MD11 In YUL  
User currently offlineSK601 From Belgium, joined Jun 2005, 976 posts, RR: 4
Posted (7 years 7 months 2 weeks 5 days 1 hour ago) and read 7480 times:

Attention MD11 lovers: currently 2 KLM MD11 aircraft are stuck in YUL. Go check it out!

The past few days were not very good for KL-ops.
-Monday: a KL B74M returned to the gate in ORD after an engine failure and is delayed 48hrs. A replacement engine is flown in from AMS.
-Monday: a KL MD11 returned to the gate in YUL because of problems with flaps and is now expected Wednesday Feb.7 at 20.50lt in stead of Tuesday Feb.6 at 07.30lt
-Monday: a KL B74M bound for MEX was delayed 24hrs due to a technical issue
-Monday: a KL A330 to THR was delayed for 24hrs due to a technical problem
-Tuesday: KL685 to MEX and KL897 to PEK cancelled due no aircraft available.
-Tuesday: another MD11 stuck in YUL. Aircraft returned to gate after an engine problem and is now expected at 21.50 on Wednesday Feb.7 iso 07.30lt. I just spoke to a friend who is onboard that flight and the passengers are now in line for a hotel room. Some passengers are from the delayed flight from monday and they are not happy (understatement).

I know that safety is the most important thing there is, but for pax this is annoying, at least.

57 replies: All unread, showing first 25:
 
User currently offlineFLYYUL From Italy, joined Jun 2000, 4980 posts, RR: 51
Reply 1, posted (7 years 7 months 2 weeks 5 days 1 hour ago) and read 7442 times:

KLM usually has major issues with their YUL service. Often we see the operational spares (combo of 74M/744/332/772 you name it) show up due some MD11 technical issue elsewhere in the system.

I have seen KLM cancels their flights way more than other airlines serving YUL. I can count at least 5 instances where KLM MD11 overnighted an airplane. Twice, they had Air Canada Technical Services do work to replace an engine (with the assistance of mechanics flown from AMS).


User currently onlineHB-IWC From Indonesia, joined Sep 2000, 4504 posts, RR: 71
Reply 2, posted (7 years 7 months 2 weeks 5 days 1 hour ago) and read 7426 times:

The dispatch reliability of the 10-strong MD11 fleet is really miserable compared to that of other components - particularly the B772ER - of the KLM widebody fleet. With 2 frames down at YUL and another likely in the hangar for cabin retrofits, there is no doubt that the effects of these operational irregularities will ripple through the system, although there are only supposed to be 7 MD11 departures today at AMS (JRO-DAR, BON-LIM, SFO, HYD, ACC, YUL and BON-GYE-UIO).

User currently offlineTrijetsRMissed From United States of America, joined Oct 2006, 2356 posts, RR: 7
Reply 3, posted (7 years 7 months 2 weeks 5 days ago) and read 7380 times:

Quoting SK601 (Thread starter):
-Monday: a KL B74M returned to the gate in ORD after an engine failure and is delayed 48hrs. A replacement engine is flown in from AMS.
KL B74M bound for MEX was delayed 24hrs due to a technical issue

Just curious, do you know the registrations of the 744M's? I will be flying ORD-AMS in May.

Quoting SK601 (Thread starter):
I know that safety is the most important thing there is, but for pax this is annoying, at least.

Definitely. The preventative maintenance needs to be straightened out.

Quoting FLYYUL (Reply 1):
I have seen KLM cancels their flights way more than other airlines serving YUL. I can count at least 5 instances where KLM MD11 overnighted an airplane.

Compared to others, why on this route have their been shortcomings?

Quoting HB-IWC (Reply 2):
The dispatch reliability of the 10-strong MD11 fleet is really miserable compared to that of other components - particularly the B772ER - of the KLM widebody fleet.

It appears from above, that lately the 744M has had it's troubles as well, not to mention the A330.



There's nothing quite like a tri-jet.
User currently offlineBlueFlyer From United States of America, joined Jan 2006, 4006 posts, RR: 2
Reply 4, posted (7 years 7 months 2 weeks 4 days 22 hours ago) and read 7334 times:
Support Airliners.net - become a First Class Member!

Quoting HB-IWC (Reply 2):
The dispatch reliability of the 10-strong MD11 fleet is really miserable compared to that of other components

How does it compare to other MD-11 operators ?

[Edited 2007-02-07 09:01:56]


I've got $h*t to do
User currently offlineMarco From United Arab Emirates, joined Jul 2000, 4169 posts, RR: 11
Reply 5, posted (7 years 7 months 2 weeks 4 days 21 hours ago) and read 7286 times:

I flew YUL-AMS on December 20th, and the flight was supposed to be operated by the MD-11, instead they replaced the aircraft with a B747-400 Combi. I loved it 'cause I love the 747, but it was because an MD-11 had had some technical difficulties somewhere in the KLM network and so they sent the only spare aircraft...


Proud to be an Assyrian!
User currently offlinePaneuropean From Netherlands, joined Sep 2006, 882 posts, RR: 0
Reply 6, posted (7 years 7 months 2 weeks 4 days 20 hours ago) and read 7249 times:

Quoting HB-IWC (Reply 2):
The dispatch reliability of the 10-strong MD11 fleet is really miserable compared to that of other components - particularly the B772ER - of the KLM widebody fleet.

Despite the fact this threeholder is becoming a rare sight at airports. It still is an awesome piece of metal. AMS (KL, MP)and MEM (Fedex) probably are the two hubs with most M11 movements.

I wonder what KLM is going to do to keep these crafts in their fleet till 2012/15. The older these aircrafts are becoming, the more they will have to deal with these kind of technical failures, I presume. KL will need some spare metal to overcome more operational irregularities. Seems like an expensive solution.........

Does anybody know if the other pax. M11 flying around (Thai, Varig, Finnair) experience such problems as KL does?


User currently offlinePHKLM From Northern Mariana Islands, joined Dec 2005, 1198 posts, RR: 2
Reply 7, posted (7 years 7 months 2 weeks 4 days 20 hours ago) and read 7245 times:

Quoting SK601 (Thread starter):

I know that safety is the most important thing there is, but for pax this is annoying, at least.

KLM advertises itself as "The Reliable Airline", it makes one wonder how "reliable" it is with all these irregularities. I understand (as from HB-IWC's elaborate posts) that it is top priority at KL to stretch fleet utilization to the max, but it takes years to build a reputation, and hours to destroy one.
I for one would rather invest in some additional spares or allow planes to stay at base for extended periods of time (at the same time optimizing routes to attract more premium traffic) and thereby have more spare capacity in case things go wrong; especially as I would advertise myself as the "reliable airline".

Clearly, the bottom-line is top priority for KL, now this is not wrong in itself, but it might come at the expense of the paying pax; in the end it is that same pax that brings in the money.


User currently offlinePHKLM From Northern Mariana Islands, joined Dec 2005, 1198 posts, RR: 2
Reply 8, posted (7 years 7 months 2 weeks 4 days 20 hours ago) and read 7224 times:

Quoting Paneuropean (Reply 6):
I wonder what KLM is going to do to keep these crafts in their fleet till 2012/15. The older these aircrafts are becoming, the more they will have to deal with these kind of technical failures, I presume. KL will need some spare metal to overcome more operational irregularities. Seems like an expensive solution.........

Word is the lease rates on these three holers are so low that it is cheaper to hold onto them until a proper replacement (350XWB/787) is available instead of replacing them now with an intermediate solution (333/777).
The cabins are retrofitted with PTV (is the first cabin done yet?) so that shows KL has full confidence they will perform at acceptable rates in some 8 years to come...


User currently offlineSK601 From Belgium, joined Jun 2005, 976 posts, RR: 4
Reply 9, posted (7 years 7 months 2 weeks 4 days 18 hours ago) and read 7110 times:

Quoting PHKLM (Reply 8):
The cabins are retrofitted with PTV

Not yet. All MD11 are flying in a new configuration and all have the new recaro m-class seats, but still without PTV's although PTVs can be build in. Also, the MD11 are still flying with the old WBC seats iso the B777/A330 WBC seat (although some might say that's a good thing).

After the summer season (Oct.2007) the MD11s will get the new WBC seats with AVOD and also PTVs with AVOD will be installed in m-class.


User currently offlineSK601 From Belgium, joined Jun 2005, 976 posts, RR: 4
Reply 10, posted (7 years 7 months 2 weeks 4 days 18 hours ago) and read 7096 times:

Quoting PHKLM (Reply 7):
KLM advertises itself as "The Reliable Airline",

IIRC KL doesn't use that slogan anymore, but are more focussing on Skyteam("caring more about you").

Quoting Paneuropean (Reply 6):
The older these aircrafts are becoming, the more they will have to deal with these kind of technical failures,

Age might have to do something with the bad dispatch reliability, but KL has also major problems with their brand new A330 aircraft. Especially fuel and water tanks are causing problems with this type.


User currently offlineLamedianaranja From Venezuela, joined Nov 2004, 1246 posts, RR: 20
Reply 11, posted (7 years 7 months 2 weeks 4 days 15 hours ago) and read 6940 times:

Quoting HB-IWC (Reply 2):
there is no doubt that the effects of these operational irregularities will ripple through the system

Hi HB-IWC: KL804/PH-BQA will get to AMS on time though  Cool just in time for the big snowstorm we're expecting tomorrow.

Today KL611 was first delayed then cancelled as a afteraffect of all the troubles SK601 mentions.

KL672D arrived empty I believe, all passengers were rebooked on the regular KL672.



I wish that all skies were orange and blue!!
User currently offlineSK601 From Belgium, joined Jun 2005, 976 posts, RR: 4
Reply 12, posted (7 years 7 months 2 weeks 4 days 15 hours ago) and read 6887 times:

Quoting Lamedianaranja (Reply 11):
KL672D arrived empty I believe

The one that was suppose to arrive in AMS yesterday morning, is now expected around 21.00 tonight, without pax.

Todays arrival, is expected tomorrow at 08.50am, together with the regular KL672, which is operated by a B747-400.

My collegue who is stuck in YUL, because of all this, just sent me a text message saying it was a BIG mess at KLM in YUL.


User currently offlineMindscape From United States of America, joined Apr 2004, 315 posts, RR: 0
Reply 13, posted (7 years 7 months 2 weeks 4 days 14 hours ago) and read 6830 times:

Quoting SK601 (Thread starter):
Tuesday: KL685 to MEX and KL897 to PEK cancelled due no aircraft available



Quoting PHKLM (Reply 7):
I for one would rather invest in some additional spares or allow planes to stay at base for extended periods of time (at the same time optimizing routes to attract more premium traffic) and thereby have more spare capacity in case things go wrong

Just a thought, but why in this case AF cannot send to AMS some of their spare birds (B772ER, ex B744COI retrofitted, etc...) ? I understand that the two brands are operating separately but in this emergency case why not using an AF aircraft instead of cancelling flights and letting passengers on the ground ?


User currently offlineYyz717 From Canada, joined Sep 2001, 16283 posts, RR: 56
Reply 14, posted (7 years 7 months 2 weeks 4 days 14 hours ago) and read 6808 times:

The M11 is older than the 744, 332 and 772 in in KL fleet. So the M11 fleet likely has a lower OTP, and is likely assigned to the lower yield markets anyway.

While 2 cancelled M11's out of YUL is not good, it's less important than 2 cancelled KL flights out of JFK or IAD for instance with higher yielding business passengers.

Quoting HB-IWC (Reply 2):
The dispatch reliability of the 10-strong MD11 fleet is really miserable compared to that of other components - particularly the B772ER - of the KLM widebody fleet.

Sounds like YUL is not a critical market for KL then.



Panam, TWA, Ansett, Eastern.......AC next? Might be good for Canada.
User currently onlineHB-IWC From Indonesia, joined Sep 2000, 4504 posts, RR: 71
Reply 15, posted (7 years 7 months 2 weeks 4 days 12 hours ago) and read 6715 times:

Quoting PHKLM (Reply 7):
KLM advertises itself as "The Reliable Airline", it makes one wonder how "reliable" it is with all these irregularities. I understand (as from HB-IWC's elaborate posts) that it is top priority at KL to stretch fleet utilization to the max, but it takes years to build a reputation, and hours to destroy one.



Quoting Yyz717 (Reply 14):
Sounds like YUL is not a critical market for KL then.

The MD11 is more and more becoming KLM's designated widebody for leisure and lower yielding markets, which is probably one of the reasons why KLM is planning to cope a couple of more years with the less than desirable dispatch reliability. The new cabin configuration has the WBC cabin relegated to just 24 seats. I guess that KLM is banking on the fact that the markets where the MD11 is and will be deployed are less sensitive to these operational irregularities than some of the airline's more premium markets.

That said, looking at the flying program of the MD11 for next summer, which is even heavier than the one of last summer - more rotations and shorter CAI flights no longer on the program - I really wonder how KLM is going to cope. Fun times ahead for the Operations Control Center for sure!

Quoting SK601 (Reply 10):
Age might have to do something with the bad dispatch reliability, but KL has also major problems with their brand new A330 aircraft.

I think that the A332 issues are still teething problems. Let's also not forget that KLM has just taken delivery of only its 7th A332 frame and that, as such, the fleet is still relatively small, which is never good for operational stability. Any operational or technical issues will immediately provoke long delays, which will ripple through the network for quite a while. I am pretty sure, though, that the A332 operation will eventually stabilize, if KLM keeps the schedule realistic, which is likely because the A332 is deployed on sectors with a relatively shorter stage length.

Quoting Lamedianaranja (Reply 11):
Hi HB-IWC: KL804/PH-BQA will get to AMS on time though

... and thank you very much for that!!!  bigthumbsup  The B772ER is once again saving the day for the KLM operation - although both KL565/NBO and because of that KL427/DXB faced long delays today.


User currently offlineSK601 From Belgium, joined Jun 2005, 976 posts, RR: 4
Reply 16, posted (7 years 7 months 2 weeks 4 days 11 hours ago) and read 6684 times:

Quoting Yyz717 (Reply 14):
The M11 is older than the 744

KL has some B744 that are older than the M11:

B744:
PH-BFA delivered may 1989
PH-BFB june 1989
PH-BFC sept 1989
PH-BFD sept 1989
PH-BFE jan 1990
PH-BFF feb 1990
PH-BFG apr 1990
PH-BFH apr 1990
PH-BFI may 1991
PH-BFK may 1991
PH-BFL dec 1991
PH-BFM feb 1992
PH-BFO oct 1992
PH-BFN apr 1993
PH-BFP sept 1993
PH-BFR jan 1994
PH-BFS oct 1996
PH-BFT may 1997
PH-BFU aug 1997
PH-BFV jan 1998
PH-BFW oct 2000
PH-BFY apr 2002

MD11:
PH-KCA dec 1993
PH-KCB mar 1994
PH-KCC jul 1994
PH-KCD sep 1994
PH-KCE nov 1994
PH-KCF dec 1994
PH-KCG may 1995
PH-KCH sep 1995
PH-KCI nov 1995
PH-KCK apr 1997

Conclusion: 15 out of the 22 B744 KL operates are older then the oldest MD11.
(PH-BFA/B/C/D/E/F/G/H/I/K/L/M/N/O)


User currently offlineYHU From Canada, joined Jun 2000, 429 posts, RR: 1
Reply 17, posted (7 years 7 months 2 weeks 4 days 11 hours ago) and read 6670 times:

Quoting Yyz717 (Reply 14):
The M11 is older than the 744, 332 and 772 in in KL fleet. So the M11 fleet likely has a lower OTP, and is likely assigned to the lower yield markets anyway.

While 2 cancelled M11's out of YUL is not good, it's less important than 2 cancelled KL flights out of JFK or IAD for instance with higher yielding business passengers.

Wow, you're able to take absolutely anything and turn it into proof that Montreal as a city and airport sucks.


User currently offlineDC10sRULE From Canada, joined Oct 2006, 172 posts, RR: 0
Reply 18, posted (7 years 7 months 2 weeks 4 days 10 hours ago) and read 6607 times:

Quoting YHU" class=quote target=_blank>YHU (Reply 17):
Quoting Yyz717 (Reply 14):
The M11 is older than the 744, 332 and 772 in in KL fleet. So the M11 fleet likely has a lower OTP, and is likely assigned to the lower yield markets anyway.

While 2 cancelled M11's out of YUL is not good, it's less important than 2 cancelled KL flights out of JFK or IAD for instance with higher yielding business passengers.


Wow, you're able to take absolutely anything and turn it into proof that Montreal as a city and airport sucks.

YHU - Have you thought about switching to decaff coffee???  mischievous 

But seriously - With respect to the KLM cancellations, don't/couldn't the other SKYTEAM members at YUL help reduce the backlog. For example:
NW could fly you from YUL-DTW-AMS
CO: YUL-EWR-AMS, DL: YUL-ATL-AMS, AF: YUL-CDG-AMS etc......
I always thought that an "alliance" would pick up the slack instead of needlessly putting people in hotels.

JA



Giggity-Giggity..!
User currently offlineMindscape From United States of America, joined Apr 2004, 315 posts, RR: 0
Reply 19, posted (7 years 7 months 2 weeks 4 days 10 hours ago) and read 6562 times:

Quoting DC10sRULE (Reply 18):
But seriously - With respect to the KLM cancellations, don't/couldn't the other SKYTEAM members at YUL help reduce the backlog.

Well it does help. I dont know if passengers stayed at YUL's hotel in that situation, but few months ago I was travelling EWR-DTW-AMS on NW. The flight between EWR-DTW has been canceled. I have been rerouted on EWR-CDG-AMS with AF (the KL flight EWR-AMS had already departed).


User currently offlineYHU From Canada, joined Jun 2000, 429 posts, RR: 1
Reply 20, posted (7 years 7 months 2 weeks 4 days 10 hours ago) and read 6553 times:

Quoting DC10sRULE (Reply 18):
YHU - Have you thought about switching to decaff coffee??? mischievous

I'm not even sure how that makes sense in relation to what I said.


User currently offlineFLYYUL From Italy, joined Jun 2000, 4980 posts, RR: 51
Reply 21, posted (7 years 7 months 2 weeks 4 days 9 hours ago) and read 6519 times:

Quoting SK601 (Reply 16):
The MD11 is more and more becoming KLM's designated widebody for leisure and lower yielding markets, which is probably one of the reasons why KLM is planning to cope a couple of more years with the less than desirable dispatch reliability. The new cabin configuration has the WBC cabin relegated to just 24 seats. I guess that KLM is banking on the fact that the markets where the MD11 is and will be deployed are less sensitive to these operational irregularities than some of the airline's more premium markets.

1.) I dont agree. The MD11 is a higher unit cost airplane, vs the competitive airplanes in the fleet B772/A332. In order to offset CASM, you need higher RASM. The difference between the A332 and MD11 in terms of J seats, is 6 seats. This represents a negligable difference.

One can argue that KL is assigning the A332/B772 lower unit costs with market that have lower RASM's. Typically, California general depicts that situation with average fare's differences that usually do not meet the added stage length cost.

2.) How would a market with numerous competitors (YUL for example with other airlines offering daily or multi-daily frequencies) be less sensitive to operational irregularity? Should KL turn off pax due to this approach, these pax will remember to go elsewhere during future travels. Especially where there is no shortage of competitors for mainland Europe.

If this is indeed their viewpoint, then they require a reality check.

[Edited 2007-02-07 21:46:19]

User currently offlineHT From Germany, joined May 2005, 6525 posts, RR: 23
Reply 22, posted (7 years 7 months 2 weeks 4 days 9 hours ago) and read 6492 times:

Quoting DC10sRULE (Reply 18):
SKYTEAM members at YUL help reduce the backlog. For example:
NW could fly you from YUL-DTW-AMS
CO: YUL-EWR-AMS, DL: YUL-ATL-AMS,

With re-routing pax via the U.S., visa-issues need to be taken into consideration ! Might be a no-no for some of the original pax ...
-HT



Carpe diem ! Life is too short to waste your time ! Keep in mind, that today is the first day of the rest of your life !
User currently offlineWSOY From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 23, posted (7 years 7 months 2 weeks 4 days 9 hours ago) and read 6357 times:

Today's "Helsingin Sanomat" (Helsinki, Finland) has it that AY will be increasing the daily utilization rate of its longhaul fleet, including the MD-11s, to 16 hours. This will apparently set the new world record for the type, introduced in 1990, or what says our resident ops expert HB-IWC?

[Edited 2007-02-07 22:39:22]

User currently offlineThePRGuy From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 24, posted (7 years 7 months 2 weeks 4 days 7 hours ago) and read 5645 times:

Are spare parts an issue now that McD is no more?

Thanks
Alex


25 Post contains images Yyz717 : This is nonsense. Airlines always put their newest aircraft on their most prestigious (ie, high yeilding) routes since they want the reliability that
26 Post contains images A388 : And we will be getting the MD11 starting this summer schedule, just great!!! A388
27 YHU : Someone has also pointed out to you that many of the 744's are older than the MD11's. Does that mean that cities getting KLM 747-400's should assume
28 Post contains images Yyz717 : YUL-CDG is indeed a leisure route as you say, but that route is also a prestige route for AF. Indeed, the A380 is destined for this route according t
29 LTU932 : MU, LT, MP, RG (not sure of RG though) don't operate MD-11 PAX flights anymore. You need to get up to date as well because, while JL phased them out
30 Yyz717 : You are right, but all these airlines either do, or did, operate the M11 on leisure, or low yield routes. I meant to say "until recently" on more of
31 Coleplane : With a few exceptions, I'm not sure how much age is a factor. Airlines only have so many aircraft and each are huge investments brought into the fleet
32 HB-IWC : No need to get all geared up about this argument. The fact that AMS YUL is a lower yielding market for KLM than, say AMS JFK, doesn't in any way enta
33 Goldorak : CDG-YUL is both a leisure and business route for AF. Look at the number of J seats proposed every day. I know a lot of people who goes regularly from
34 Yyz717 : I wasn't making a general case thta the M11 was used as a lower yield aircraft, just that it was used on lower yield routes by some airlines.
35 FLYYUL : HB-IWC, My only point is that the CASM of the MD11 is likely significantly higher than the competition in the fleet. One way to offset that is to high
36 HB-IWC : The MD11 problems have still not yet been resolved. The second MD11 stuck in YUL didn't make it out this morning and is delayed until late in the even
37 SK601 : .....and today's KL733 AMS-AUA is delayed until 1940lt....
38 Post contains images Lamedianaranja : I guess the small fleet had scores of troubles with the snow
39 YOWza : I had not idea that frames were so tightly scheduled at KL that a couple of them going tech would cause such havoc. Are KL doing anything to mtigate t
40 Qazar : HB-IWC, My emails to you bounced back!!! Que passa?
41 Coleplane : Enjoyed the info HB-IWC. Thank you.
42 HB-IWC : One A332 and one B772ER have been delivered in the past week or so and another 2 A332 and one B772ER will be added by April, yet all of this capacity
43 WSOY : HB-IWC, have you calculated the coming KLM MD11 utilization figures for the summer yet? Want to publish? Climbing above 16 hours?
44 HB-IWC : This is the info for the coming summer: MD11 flying program: KL567/569/571 AMS JRO DAR - 7 weekly KL589/590 AMS ACC - 7 weekly KL671/672 AMS YUL - 7
45 HB-IWC : Problems with the MD11 fleet seem to last. Today's KL605/SFO seems to be canceled, and KL671/YUL will be operated by B744 in lieu of the normally sche
46 WSOY : Thanks for the figures, HB-IWC! Forgive me, I'm a layman and need to ask a stupid question: the Operational Spares column. Does that stand for the pla
47 Post contains images SK601 : HB-IWC, usually there's no need to correct you since you know where you're talking about, but this time I do have to correct you. KL409 AMS-ALA depar
48 HB-IWC : ... and thank you for that! Interesting to see that the aircraft was carrying enough fuel for the entire trip back as well. Airline operations and th
49 ACDC8 : That's what I was hoping for! Thank you for sharing the info!
50 WSOY : Thanks again, HB-IWC, for clarifying the terminology for me, that was a clear piece of text. I understand even the major checks on the a/c can be perf
51 HB-IWC : Very likely, and when combined with the relatively low dispatch reliability of the MD11 fleet at KLM - the origin of which remains unclear to me, as
52 WSOY : I I think faults in the flap system have been indicated in a number of AY dispatch problems, as well as in the above. It'd make sense that such a comp
53 HB-IWC : PH-KCE, one of KLM's MD11s, was grounded on September 9, 2006, as the result of foreign object damage to all three engines sustained when landing on
54 TrijetsRMissed : Did this aircraft have the same larger No.2 engine intake installed as the replacement? KLM were the first with this design and it separates their ai
55 Viscount724 : I thought all MD-11s had the same No. 2 engine intake, very similar to the intake on the P&W-powered DC-10-40 and slightly larger than the intake on
56 Post contains images TrijetsRMissed : No, not all MD-11's are the same. After they entered service there was a series of PIP's done by McDonnell Douglas to improve the jet. For example, S
57 Viscount724 : Thanks for that history. You learn something every day!
Top Of Page
Forum Index

This topic is archived and can not be replied to any more.

Printer friendly format

Similar topics:More similar topics...
KL's MD11 In MIA posted Thu Jan 8 2004 22:04:43 by Bongo
KL MD11 In Zrh? posted Thu Nov 28 2002 18:19:20 by Raggi
Flying In KL MD11's! posted Sat Sep 24 2005 15:45:37 by CV990
AF/KL Results In Brazil: December/06 posted Mon Jan 29 2007 16:36:53 by Hardiwv
AF-KL Results In Brazil: October/2006 posted Fri Dec 1 2006 10:53:07 by Hardiwv
AF-KL Results In Brazil: August/2006 posted Tue Oct 3 2006 12:00:56 by Hardiwv
AF-KL Results In Brazil June/06 posted Thu Jul 27 2006 15:49:22 by Hardiwv
GlobeJet305 L1011 In YUL? posted Tue Jul 25 2006 17:15:18 by AF002
AFR373 Diverted In YUL On June 24, 2006 posted Sun Jun 25 2006 04:34:24 by Aircanada333
Virgin America A320 In YUL posted Thu Jun 22 2006 06:28:46 by AC330