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Tiger Airways - Australia Dom.  
User currently offlineFlyjetstar From Australia, joined Feb 2006, 951 posts, RR: 0
Posted (7 years 5 months 3 weeks 3 days 15 hours ago) and read 5390 times:

From today's Australian:

Tiger is expected to announce an Australian investment tomorrow, possibly involving a link with Perth-based Skywest Airlines that would see Tiger-branded A320s operating from the Western Australian capital.

Aviation sources speculated yesterday that Tiger would use Skywest to put Airbus A320s on the Australian market, amid rumours it was seeking to operate from Perth to the eastern states as well as on the "golden triangle" of Brisbane, Sydney and Melbourne.

Full article here.

This was a surprise to me. Anyone know of how much substance are to the rumours?

If they are on the money how successful will they be?
What to make of the SQ involvement in this? I thought their desire for Australian domestic was long gone.
How would this affect the distant link to DJ?

Also worth noting the comment by Jetstar chief re NZ domestic:

"Our Christchurch operations are really going very, very well and domestic New Zealand and extra flying across the Tasman fall into a category we would want to look at as well."

A hint?

72 replies: All unread, showing first 25:
 
User currently offlineSparklehorse12 From Australia, joined Feb 2007, 884 posts, RR: 1
Reply 1, posted (7 years 5 months 3 weeks 3 days 15 hours ago) and read 5381 times:

Tiger are selling fares from PER to BKK via SIN with services launching in March. This is part of thier strategy they do Darwin to SIN.

I tink Tiger are on the move in Aus.



Airlines Flown : QF,NW,AA, CX, AC, MH, SQ, DJ, NZ, TG, PG,US, FJ, J8, AN, DD, JQ
User currently offlineAlangirvan From New Zealand, joined Nov 2000, 2106 posts, RR: 1
Reply 2, posted (7 years 5 months 3 weeks 3 days 13 hours ago) and read 5330 times:

I think it will be done so that Tiger Australia is just a franchise - it might be the current ownership, with Tiger painted on the planes. Alliance in Queensland has a similar ownership, so Tiger Australia could be a big operation.


Of course, if Qantas is going to put 743s back onto SYDPER, Tiger could lease in some older 744s from SQ so people can watch Krisflyer between PER and SYD/MEL. As an Australian owned carrier Tiger could operate SYDLAX.


I wonder if the people at Tiger eat Frosties for breakfast.


User currently offline6thfreedom From Bermuda, joined Sep 2004, 3323 posts, RR: 20
Reply 3, posted (7 years 5 months 3 weeks 3 days 13 hours ago) and read 5296 times:

Don't read too much into the Perth links.

I think Tiger knows that they cant compete with a true LCC product east-west coast.

I think the east triangle is where things are at!


User currently offlineFlyjetstar From Australia, joined Feb 2006, 951 posts, RR: 0
Reply 4, posted (7 years 5 months 3 weeks 3 days 12 hours ago) and read 5271 times:

Quoting 6thfreedom (Reply 3):
I think Tiger knows that they cant compete with a true LCC product east-west coast.

Why is that?


User currently offline6thfreedom From Bermuda, joined Sep 2004, 3323 posts, RR: 20
Reply 5, posted (7 years 5 months 3 weeks 3 days 12 hours ago) and read 5247 times:

Quoting Flyjetstar (Reply 4):
Why is that?

1. unit costs on the B743 are competitive with narrowbody.
2. J class premiums on QF
3. starting with 4 aircraft makes no sense to deploy aircraft on 19-10 hour blocks to PER.


User currently offlineSparklehorse12 From Australia, joined Feb 2007, 884 posts, RR: 1
Reply 6, posted (7 years 5 months 3 weeks 3 days 11 hours ago) and read 5217 times:

In any case, it would be great if Tiger joined us domestically. DJ would have to sharpen it's act and infact I don't understand why SQ hasn't bought a stake in Toll. Oh the airline industry is so incestuous!


Airlines Flown : QF,NW,AA, CX, AC, MH, SQ, DJ, NZ, TG, PG,US, FJ, J8, AN, DD, JQ
User currently offlineANother From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 7, posted (7 years 5 months 3 weeks 3 days 6 hours ago) and read 5074 times:

Quoting Alangirvan (Reply 2):

I wonder if the people at Tiger eat Frosties for breakfast.

No, but I'm sure they drink Tiger Beer!


User currently offlineSparklehorse12 From Australia, joined Feb 2007, 884 posts, RR: 1
Reply 8, posted (7 years 5 months 3 weeks 3 days 5 hours ago) and read 5046 times:

There was going to be an announcement late today on who Tiger were going to buy a financial stake in....did anyone catch it?


Airlines Flown : QF,NW,AA, CX, AC, MH, SQ, DJ, NZ, TG, PG,US, FJ, J8, AN, DD, JQ
User currently offlineCXfirst From Norway, joined Jan 2007, 3038 posts, RR: 1
Reply 9, posted (7 years 5 months 3 weeks 3 days 5 hours ago) and read 5040 times:

Quoting 6thfreedom (Reply 3):
I think the east triangle is where things are at!

But, they will have better connections internationally, as they fly to SIN from PER, and the prices need a little beating west to east.

-CXfirst



From Norway, live in Australia
User currently offline6thfreedom From Bermuda, joined Sep 2004, 3323 posts, RR: 20
Reply 10, posted (7 years 5 months 3 weeks 3 days 4 hours ago) and read 4987 times:

Quoting CXfirst (Reply 9):
But, they will have better connections internationally, as they fly to SIN from PER, and the prices need a little beating west to east.

Don't forget they also fly SIN-DRW, and with a shorter sector from DRW-SIN, it would make sense to hub internationally over DRW.

At PER, the international and domestic terminals are seperate terminals, which doesn't help with connections.

I understand that in DRW it's a single terminal, and charges are significantly less than PER.

Given BA and OS suspension on SIN-MEL, and SQ redicing BNE-SIN, there may be an opportunity for BNE/MEL - DRW - SIN, feeding into the existing services.
Like Perth, Darwin is also cashed up through the resources boom.


User currently offlineFlyjetstar From Australia, joined Feb 2006, 951 posts, RR: 0
Reply 11, posted (7 years 5 months 3 weeks 2 days 17 hours ago) and read 4874 times:

Confirmation here from the SMH.

Singapore Airlines backed Tiger Airways has announced its plans on becoming Australia's third domestic airline by late 2007, sparking expectations it will trigger the mother of all low-cost domestic airfare wars.


User currently offlineHKGKaiTak From Australia, joined Jun 2005, 1050 posts, RR: 0
Reply 12, posted (7 years 5 months 3 weeks 2 days 16 hours ago) and read 4843 times:

Wow this is a surprise ... good on 'em. Can Australia really sustain a third "budget" carrier? Even if it's only on the east coast?

And so, SQ has finally arrived on the scene.



4 Engines 4 LongHaul
User currently offlineSparklehorse12 From Australia, joined Feb 2007, 884 posts, RR: 1
Reply 13, posted (7 years 5 months 3 weeks 2 days 16 hours ago) and read 4823 times:

This is a good thing. I am pleased to see another carrier here......they will rip into JQ & QF market share more than DJ market share.....in my opinion.


Airlines Flown : QF,NW,AA, CX, AC, MH, SQ, DJ, NZ, TG, PG,US, FJ, J8, AN, DD, JQ
User currently offlineFlyjetstar From Australia, joined Feb 2006, 951 posts, RR: 0
Reply 14, posted (7 years 5 months 3 weeks 2 days 16 hours ago) and read 4807 times:

It could be that this will allow DJ to become more like QF and then Tiger could be the JQ of DJ. Hope that makes sense! I know there is no link between Tiger and DJ but with SQ being involved in Tiger and the link between Branson, SQ and DJ I would be surprised if DJ didn't know about this. I mean, are SQ going to want to upset Branson by doing something that could undermine his investment in DJ without his knowledge.

Of course the usual question: how long before Tiger do Trans-Tasman!  Yeah sure


User currently offlineCurmudgeon From Australia, joined Oct 2006, 695 posts, RR: 22
Reply 15, posted (7 years 5 months 3 weeks 2 days 15 hours ago) and read 4783 times:

A few things spring to mind instantly:

1. I hope that this puts some price tension into the market for A320 pilots. JQ guys need another bidder for their services. if Tiger was smart they'd hire as many JQ pilots as possible, transferring their own training costs to the Qantas Group.

2. DRW does not have the room to be anybody's hub. The terminal is crowded, and only has four jetways, all of which are used by the incumbent carriers all the time. Many flights now are parked quite a walk from the terminal building as it is.

3. The 743 is a temporary measure...the clock's ticking on that aeroplane. I doubt that there will be a 744 on the route when the 743s are scrapped.

4. The politicians are getting jumpy about the QF buyout, so they may be in a mood to swing open the doors to all comers, including open slather on the Pacific in a couple of years.



Jets are for kids
User currently offline6thfreedom From Bermuda, joined Sep 2004, 3323 posts, RR: 20
Reply 16, posted (7 years 5 months 3 weeks 2 days 15 hours ago) and read 4757 times:

Quoting Curmudgeon (Reply 15):
2. DRW does not have the room to be anybody's hub. The terminal is crowded, and only has four jetways, all of which are used by the incumbent carriers all the time. Many flights now are parked quite a walk from the terminal building as it is.

3. The 743 is a temporary measure...the clock's ticking on that aeroplane. I doubt that there will be a 744 on the route when the 743s are scrapped.

IIRC, Darwin may have 4 aerobridges, but what does that matter?
we're talking about about a true LCC, which doesn't even uses bridges in its LLCT in Singapore. so what does it matter if their are no gates.

The way TRs connectivity model works is by simply offering combination fares in the one transactions. pax flying into darwin would need to re-check onto other flights, so would need 2 hours on the ground anyway.

with the terminal being domestic/international and compact, unlike PER, it makes sense.

as for the B743s, I don't see TR 'wasting' time on such long sectors in the start up phase.

I think they would focus on the golden triangle, with a nightly departure from one of the ports to DRW to connect with the SIN flight...


User currently offlineCarnoc From China, joined Oct 2001, 875 posts, RR: 0
Reply 17, posted (7 years 5 months 3 weeks 2 days 14 hours ago) and read 4700 times:

Official press release has just been issued, and is available at http://en.carnoc.com/list/1/1973.html

Regards.


User currently offlineABpositive From Australia, joined Nov 2005, 226 posts, RR: 0
Reply 18, posted (7 years 5 months 3 weeks 2 days 13 hours ago) and read 4678 times:

This might be a plan for Singapore to get their transpacific flights. As far as I'm concerned from a consumer's perspective, I am all up for it. The current transpacific fares are an extortion, especially if you compare them to much longer flights such as to Europe.

User currently offlineSparklehorse12 From Australia, joined Feb 2007, 884 posts, RR: 1
Reply 19, posted (7 years 5 months 3 weeks 2 days 12 hours ago) and read 4628 times:

Does anyone know, or can take an educated guess at their main hub? I am not very knowledgeable with airline business models but would it be silly to suggest PER as a possible main hub?


Airlines Flown : QF,NW,AA, CX, AC, MH, SQ, DJ, NZ, TG, PG,US, FJ, J8, AN, DD, JQ
User currently offlineJupiter2 From Australia, joined Jan 2001, 883 posts, RR: 1
Reply 20, posted (7 years 5 months 3 weeks 2 days 12 hours ago) and read 4613 times:

If PER was to be a hub, it would require Tiger to serve several Asian ports from PER, not just to other Australian cities. The idea of a hub is to bring passengers to a central point and then distribute them to places further afield. such as Dubai for EK, or ATL for DL.

As 6thfreedom mentioned, for a hub to be viable for Tiger in Australia, Darwin would be the best choice for onward flights to SIN. Would work for all cities east of Adelaide and keep Perth direct to SIN.

As for a domestic hub, they don't need one. Fly the SYD/MEL/BNE triangle plus services to Perth and Adelaide and you've just about covered the main routes. If they get into flying to the Queensland holiday destinations north of Brisbane, then Brisbane does become viable as a hub. That would be more aimed at DJ.

RL


User currently offlineAlangirvan From New Zealand, joined Nov 2000, 2106 posts, RR: 1
Reply 21, posted (7 years 5 months 3 weeks 2 days 11 hours ago) and read 4590 times:

In Europe, many of the LCCs do not talk about hubs - they talk about Focus cities - Ryanair has just announced Dusseldorf. Most of those airlines do not hub in the sense of flying people in from one city and out to another, they concentrate on building up lots of cities which people want to visit from their home city.

If Tiger does make Perth a focus city, then the market is anywhere in flying range of an A320. Yes, Tiger does do some connections through Singapore but the hubbing is second priority when planning flights.

Reports say that Tiger has told the Australian Transport Minister that Regional destinations will be served. We will find out what Tiger's definition of a regional city (less than 50 000 population?).


User currently offlineSparklehorse12 From Australia, joined Feb 2007, 884 posts, RR: 1
Reply 22, posted (7 years 5 months 3 weeks 2 days 10 hours ago) and read 4508 times:

Considering they are giving JQ Asia a beating at the moment, this would have to make the consortium wanting to buy QF very nervous as there is much speculation it is JQ they are after for it's low cost model.

This will make air travel in Australia very interesting. DJ have just ordered their fleet of Embraer to free up 737 fleet and increase frequency on the 'golden triangle'. Maybe we will see DJ emerge as a new type of airline.

I think it is all good and I would suggest SQ will never be involved in anything that is not a sure bet. This would also be interesting to see, if as suggested before, that SQ could then fly between Australia and North America using Tiger as thier cover.....DJ must be nervous.


It will be interesting to see how our very own selective free-marketeers like Dixon and co react to this....



Airlines Flown : QF,NW,AA, CX, AC, MH, SQ, DJ, NZ, TG, PG,US, FJ, J8, AN, DD, JQ
User currently offlineV Jet From Australia, joined May 1999, 719 posts, RR: 2
Reply 23, posted (7 years 5 months 3 weeks 2 days 10 hours ago) and read 4501 times:

On their website you can vote for where in Australia you would like them to operate! You have 3 choices. Mine were BKQ BCI and LRE.
They did say they wanted to bring lower fare to Australia!


User currently offlineERJ135 From Australia, joined Nov 2000, 680 posts, RR: 1
Reply 24, posted (7 years 5 months 3 weeks 2 days 5 hours ago) and read 4332 times:

I heard a brief news item on the radio on my way home from work today.
"We at Tiger Air have 5 A320's available for placement in the Australian market and we intend to take on Virgin Blue and Jetstar."

There was no mention of when or what routes but with 5 aircraft the SYD_ MEL- BNE trio seems about the initial limit. The future however who knows?



I remember when the DC-3 was new!
25 Qantas787 : I have checked Tigers pricing for DRW-SIN in June - great airfares but the taxes etc etc etc are fairyland stuff which I would hope powers that be wou
26 Sparklehorse12 : Unfortunately you are allowed to promote international fares excluding 'fees,taxes & surchages' DJ do it as well. It is rubbish and no one will do a
27 MilesDependent : Yes, but in Australia you have to say what the taxes are. So, none of these $1 fares and you find out at the last minute that the taxes are $300. The
28 Bill142 : Unless tiger are going to absorb the taxes on these fares
29 Post contains links Alangirvan : I have just looked at www.jetstar.com, and I tried Melbourne to Bangkok for a March departure. The lowest fares are $275 each way, with taxes quoted o
30 HKGKaiTak : That's a very interesting "poll". There must be lots of people who put down varied destinations as SYD, MEL, and BNE only have 10-15% each! I put dow
31 Curmudgeon : I'm sorry that I truncated my comments; there are only four jetways, so the rest of the many aeroplanes clog up the ramp. My comments were in respons
32 QantasA333 : I heard only yesterday that the airline was considering ADL as a hub?
33 ClassicLover : That'd be fun... I can see everyone connecting in Adelaide on the way to Melbourne from Sydney! Hopefully Tiger will compete on the routes where QF h
34 GneissGuy : I reckon Tiger will operate from secondary airports. No need for fancy aerobridges and stuff..... Melbourne Avalon? But with 5 aircraft ready for imme
35 Post contains links GneissGuy : More links here: http://www.channelnewsasia.com/stori...cific_business/view/257918/1/.html http://www.tigerairways.com.sg/oz/ozwelcome.php
36 CXfirst : However, you could sell a ticket as ADL-SIN with a change of plane in PER. Then again MEL/SYD/BNE/CNS - SIN via PER does not sound very good. I agree
37 Zeke : JQ pilots like Tiger pay for their ratings, and are bonded as well. When the USA is closer to Australia, fares will come down, seat density is lower
38 Zeke : Also interesting to see that Ozjet changes company office holders on feb 2nd, and changed its company office address. Maybe just a coincidence. 06/02/
39 Post contains links Gemuser : Well that possibly answers some of the questions! The one I wonder about is a one type airline (A320B737) serving "regional" Oz. While I realise that
40 6thfreedom : DRW is the'logical 'hub' for connections from the east coast and adelaide. I think PER is big enough to remain a point to point service with daily fr
41 Qantas787 : How about Mount Isa, its a monopoly at the moment. Only 25000 pop but huge work forces moving thru, and vast distances to nearest regional or capital
42 Lufthansa : I tell you what, Tiger is going after Qantas. DJ isn't the target here. DJ's lower cost structure will enable them to compete just fine, but QF should
43 Pilotdude09 : You could say the same about Karratha and Broome, Broome needs cheaper flights for the tourists. Karratha only has QF and most flights are fully book
44 Gemuser : OK so for regional service with A320/B737 size aircraft we have the 13 listed in reply 39 on the basis of population, plus: Alice Springs - Tourists
45 Pilotdude09 : Ok well obviously Karratha. Why? because there is a massive FIFO workforce here and QF and National Jet have the monopoly on the route. But it would
46 GneissGuy : Somehow i think Tiger will concentrate on the major cities, Sydney, Melbourne, Perth, Brisbane, Cairns, maybe Canberra. And maybe some tourist hotspo
47 Lufthansa : Well not even a 'get back' but perhaps a strategic move to put pressure on Qantas. After all, Qantas is doing the exact same thing in SQ's backyard w
48 GneissGuy : I think this is highly unlikely. Tiger Airways functions as a separate entity from SIA and there is 0 cross subsidy involved on the operations side.
49 Lufthansa : Don't be so sure. I don't see any interlining at all taking place between SQ and TR... but just because Tiger operates a certain way and in a certain
50 Gemuser : Does not count, because it is a contract and NOT an airline route. It does not require an airline licience to run, could be done by a charter licienc
51 Pilotdude09 : Actually it is an airline route. Qantas have schedceuled services 5-6 a day and Skywest used to operate here as well.
52 Sparklehorse12 : I am sure Virgin will survive and after reluctantly flying JQ on Saturday from BNE to NTL it only reinforced my choice to fly DJ and take full advant
53 Post contains links DJ748 : What a bother. Avalon sounds fine, but when it comes to Sydney and Brisbane, thats a different story. In Sydney, why would they want to fly into Bank
54 Gemuser : No Ipswich is NOT added to the list because you didn't say "why". Just because its "there" does not, of itself, seem like a valid commerical reason.
55 Airbus A3XX : For your information, QF Link still operates Melbourne - Wollongong 7 times a week.
56 Gemuser : How does this work? I was under the impression all the FIFO flights were exclusive aircraft flights. Can a member of the public just buy a ticket on
57 6thfreedom : Tiger will operate quite seperately to SQ, which has been proven with the launch of flight to PER, as well as TR's other destinations in Manila, BKK,
58 Gemuser : So third time proves it! What aircraft is used Dash8-300? How long has it been operating this time? Gemuser
59 Gemuser : Can an A320 even operate from Bankstown with an economic payload? Even if it can, the chances of getting local council & state government approval, w
60 SA7700 : I don't think so. The longest rwy at BWU (11C/29C) is 1415m (4644ft) long. IIRC min take-off distance for the A320 is in the region of 1700m. Rgds SA
61 Gemuser : How about that! Worked there for near on a decade and never knew it had an IATA code! (ICAO - yes, IATA - why?) I think you are pretty spot on about
62 Pilotdude09 : Karratha is a proper town, lol we have 14,000 people living here. Rio Tinto and Woodside use QF but pay as per normal services and QF and other airli
63 Rsg85 : Bring on the cheap MEL-DRW and MEL-PER. Would make life much easier for me. Can Australia support this many domestic carriers? Who will be next to die
64 Jupiter2 : 320's into Bankstown, hah !! not in my life time, or for that matter any other reader on these forums. The only way a 320 would ever be allowed in the
65 HKGKaiTak : I'll put Yulara AYQ on the list ... Now that's a true tourist destination that's also a QF monopoly. Currently there are 2 flights daily from SYD, da
66 Gemuser : An obvious one I missed! So now we have for regional service with A320/B737 size aircraft we have the 13 listed in reply 39 on the basis of populatio
67 Jupiter2 : Port Macquarie would be a go if they lengthen the runway. DJ have previously said they would fly there but the strip is not quite long enough, it may
68 HKGKaiTak : Has anyone suggested Wagga Wagga and Broome? Wagga because it is a reasonably large regional centre (almost 60,000), and not really close to either SY
69 Gemuser : Look at Reply 39. The list is of cities/towns under 75,000 population that could justify service with A320 size aircraft, other than for population s
70 Pilotdude09 : But it is an International Airport. They have had flights from Tokyo and various other Asian Destinations for charters etc and they proved really suc
71 DJ748 : Think about it. Ipswich currently has a significant population - about 140,000 at the moment, and forecast to grow to double that in the next 20-30 y
72 Gemuser : Assuming your figure of about 140,00 is correct, it's not listed in my ABS data because it's part of the BNE statical Div, that puts it between CNS &
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