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747-8 Skyloft Idea Been Officially Dropped Yet?  
User currently offlineEI321 From Iraq, joined Jul 2009, 0 posts, RR: 0
Posted (7 years 6 months 2 weeks 6 days 23 hours ago) and read 7654 times:

Just wondering as it is still mentioned on www.boeing.com

Quote:

The new SkyLoft area on the upper deck of the 747-8 Intercontinental gives operators the choice between additional main-deck seats or the opportunity to create a unique passenger experience through personal suites, a lounge or a business center

I wonder how it would affect the aircrafts CASM, ranges and payload.

31 replies: All unread, showing first 25:
 
User currently offlineStitch From United States of America, joined Jul 2005, 30898 posts, RR: 87
Reply 1, posted (7 years 6 months 2 weeks 6 days 23 hours ago) and read 7637 times:
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I imagine it has been.

It would increase OEW and payload (more seats on the main deck), both of which would reduce range. The OEW increase would raise CASM, but the extra payload would then lower it back again.


User currently offlinePC12Fan From United States of America, joined Jan 2007, 2432 posts, RR: 5
Reply 2, posted (7 years 6 months 2 weeks 6 days 23 hours ago) and read 7508 times:

Quoting Stitch (Reply 1):
I imagine it has been

I would agree, but I know Boeing has the philosophy of if the customer want it, they'll do it. I think this could possibly be the case for the few BBJ748's that were sold.
 twocents 



Just when I think you've said the stupidest thing ever, you keep talkin'!
User currently offlineJetjack74 From United States of America, joined Jul 2003, 7408 posts, RR: 50
Reply 3, posted (7 years 6 months 2 weeks 6 days 23 hours ago) and read 7508 times:
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Quoting EI321 (Thread starter):
747-8 Skyloft Idea Been Officially Dropped Yet?

Don't know. Has the inflight swimming pools, gambling casinos, and massage parlours on the A380 been dropped yet?



Made from jets!
User currently offlineEI321 From Iraq, joined Jul 2009, 0 posts, RR: 0
Reply 4, posted (7 years 6 months 2 weeks 6 days 22 hours ago) and read 7486 times:

Quoting Jetjack74 (Reply 3):
Quoting EI321 (Thread starter):
747-8 Skyloft Idea Been Officially Dropped Yet?

Don't know. Has the inflight swimming pools, gambling casinos, and massage parlours on the A380 been dropped yet?

Swimming Pool?, oh dear another myth EK are apparently putting in showers though.
The other two, well guessing you have not been on a VS 744 lately, those masseuse girls can work wonders. I believe that it is Mr Richard Branson who has promised gambling and massages on his fleet, but then what would he know

[Edited 2007-02-09 15:43:45]

User currently offlineScouseflyer From United Kingdom, joined Apr 2006, 3389 posts, RR: 9
Reply 5, posted (7 years 6 months 2 weeks 6 days 22 hours ago) and read 7398 times:

Quoting EI321 (Reply 4):
those masseuse girls can work wonders

Would sir like and extras today (wink, wink)


User currently offlineA342 From Germany, joined Jul 2005, 4681 posts, RR: 3
Reply 6, posted (7 years 6 months 2 weeks 6 days 22 hours ago) and read 7353 times:

I feel LH could place part of the galley there - or just store carts.


Exceptions confirm the rule.
User currently offlineEI321 From Iraq, joined Jul 2009, 0 posts, RR: 0
Reply 7, posted (7 years 6 months 2 weeks 6 days 21 hours ago) and read 7236 times:

Quoting A342 (Reply 6):
I feel LH could place part of the galley there - or just store carts.

They quote 400 seats as the figure that they will put on the 748, whats the seat count for their -400s?


User currently offlineSCAT15F From United States of America, joined Feb 2007, 402 posts, RR: 0
Reply 8, posted (7 years 6 months 2 weeks 6 days 21 hours ago) and read 7216 times:

Quoting A342 (Reply 6):
I feel LH could place part of the galley there - or just store carts.

I agree- In fact I would not be surprised if the "firm" configuration for the 748I is for 479 seats.

-Jon


User currently offlineCM767 From Panama, joined Dec 2004, 654 posts, RR: 1
Reply 9, posted (7 years 6 months 2 weeks 6 days 21 hours ago) and read 7169 times:

From the start the galley option was the only one with a chance, I believe that airlines would go for it.


But The Best Thing God Has Created Is A New Day
User currently offlineEI321 From Iraq, joined Jul 2009, 0 posts, RR: 0
Reply 10, posted (7 years 6 months 2 weeks 6 days 20 hours ago) and read 7152 times:

Quoting CM767 (Reply 9):
From the start the galley option was the only one with a chance, I believe that airlines would go for it.

Theres confusion whether its even being offered any longer.

Quoting SCAT15F (Reply 8):
Quoting A342 (Reply 6):
I feel LH could place part of the galley there - or just store carts.

I agree- In fact I would not be surprised if the "firm" configuration for the 748I is for 479 seats.

I have not seen it mentioned in press releases from either LH or Boeing regarding the LH order. I think this is a sign that these aircraft wont have lofts, as the idea was one of the selling points Boeing was originally touting and they would be trying to give it some publicity.


User currently offlineStitch From United States of America, joined Jul 2005, 30898 posts, RR: 87
Reply 11, posted (7 years 6 months 2 weeks 6 days 20 hours ago) and read 7115 times:
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Quoting PC12Fan (Reply 2):
I think this could possibly be the case for the few BBJ748's that were sold.

I imagine the suites below the ceiling are larger and more luxurious then the ones they can put above the ceiling.  Wink

Still, might be a good place to keep the staff from underfoot.  Smile


User currently offlineTod From Denmark, joined exactly 10 years ago today! , 1725 posts, RR: 3
Reply 12, posted (7 years 6 months 2 weeks 6 days 20 hours ago) and read 7043 times:

Quoting EI321 (Reply 10):
Theres confusion whether its even being offered any longer.

If Boeing doesn't offer it and a customer wants it, the aftermarket companies such as Flight Structures and Heath Tecna will be all over it.

Tod


User currently offline474218 From United States of America, joined Oct 2005, 6340 posts, RR: 9
Reply 13, posted (7 years 6 months 2 weeks 6 days 18 hours ago) and read 6927 times:

Quoting EI321 (Reply 4):
Swimming Pool?, oh dear another myth EK are apparently putting in showers though.

Since Airbus had all kinds of problems routing electrical wiring. Imagine what they will up against with the water pipes and drains that will be required for showers?


User currently offlineHB88 From United Kingdom, joined Sep 2005, 816 posts, RR: 31
Reply 14, posted (7 years 6 months 2 weeks 6 days 17 hours ago) and read 6844 times:

Quoting EI321 (Thread starter):
Just wondering as it is still mentioned on www.boeing.com

Quote:

The new SkyLoft area on the upper deck of the 747-8 Intercontinental gives operators the choice between additional main-deck seats or the opportunity to create a unique passenger experience through personal suites, a lounge or a business center

I wonder how it would affect the aircrafts CASM, ranges and payload.

I think this was always in the same category as the A380 swimming pools and bowling alleys. Good media/PR, but not really for the masses.


User currently offlineN1120A From United States of America, joined Dec 2003, 26442 posts, RR: 75
Reply 15, posted (7 years 6 months 2 weeks 6 days 17 hours ago) and read 6832 times:

The thing about all this that one should really pay attention to is that the 748I will have LAX-MEL-LAX range even loaded to its max structural payload, so range loss really isn't an issue if they decide to use the wasted space on the sky loft concept. Personally, I think at least some of it will end up as crew rest.


Mangeons les French fries, mais surtout pratiquons avec fierte le French kiss
User currently offlineHB88 From United Kingdom, joined Sep 2005, 816 posts, RR: 31
Reply 16, posted (7 years 6 months 2 weeks 6 days 17 hours ago) and read 6808 times:

Quoting N1120A (Reply 15):
The thing about all this that one should really pay attention to is that the 748I will have LAX-MEL-LAX range even loaded to its max structural payload, so range loss really isn't an issue if they decide to use the wasted space on the sky loft concept. Personally, I think at least some of it will end up as crew rest.

I'd have thought that if payload/range wasn't an issue, it would end up with the fate of any spare space on a long-haul aircraft - jammed to the max with fare-paying seats. Or is the space completely impractical for pax?


User currently offlinePygmalion From United States of America, joined Jun 2006, 966 posts, RR: 38
Reply 17, posted (7 years 6 months 2 weeks 6 days 17 hours ago) and read 6767 times:

It was always just an option not a standard fixture. As such, its up the the airline if they want it or not.

User currently offlineN1120A From United States of America, joined Dec 2003, 26442 posts, RR: 75
Reply 18, posted (7 years 6 months 2 weeks 6 days 17 hours ago) and read 6710 times:

Quoting HB88 (Reply 16):
I'd have thought that if payload/range wasn't an issue, it would end up with the fate of any spare space on a long-haul aircraft - jammed to the max with fare-paying seats. Or is the space completely impractical for pax?

If that was the case, lots of aircraft would have more seats in them. Comfort on an aircraft drives up yield, which can make a less dense aircraft more profitable. As far as the space in question, it is not as if Boeing has made some sort of provision to drill holes for windows, so it is not as if they will be able to put regular seats up there. Like I said, it will likely end up as crew rest for most carriers.



Mangeons les French fries, mais surtout pratiquons avec fierte le French kiss
User currently offlineEI321 From Iraq, joined Jul 2009, 0 posts, RR: 0
Reply 19, posted (7 years 6 months 2 weeks 6 days 13 hours ago) and read 6562 times:

Quoting 474218 (Reply 13):
Since Airbus had all kinds of problems routing electrical wiring. Imagine what they will up against with the water pipes and drains that will be required for showers?

Its comes as a self contained modular unit, like a toilet. Everything is built in.


User currently offlineDL_Mech From United States of America, joined Feb 2000, 1937 posts, RR: 9
Reply 20, posted (7 years 6 months 2 weeks 6 days 12 hours ago) and read 6331 times:

Quoting EI321 (Reply 19):
Its comes as a self contained modular unit, like a toilet. Everything is built in.


Including the water supply and drain system?



This plane is built to withstand anything... except a bad pilot.
User currently offlineStitch From United States of America, joined Jul 2005, 30898 posts, RR: 87
Reply 21, posted (7 years 6 months 2 weeks 6 days 11 hours ago) and read 6185 times:
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Quoting DL_Mech (Reply 20):
Including the water supply and drain system?

Potable water is not an unknown thing on an airliner, and shower systems are not unknown to BBJs and ACJs, so it shouldn't be too much of a brain twister for them to figure out how to connect the shower to the plumbing of a seperate potable water system.  Smile


User currently offlineCusaeng From United Kingdom, joined Jan 2006, 143 posts, RR: 0
Reply 22, posted (7 years 6 months 2 weeks 6 days 10 hours ago) and read 5810 times:

Quoting 474218 (Reply 13):
Quoting EI321 (Reply 4):
Swimming Pool?, oh dear another myth EK are apparently putting in showers though.

Since Airbus had all kinds of problems routing electrical wiring. Imagine what they will up against with the water pipes and drains that will be required for showers?

EASY ... just drill a set of small holes in the floor.
TADA drainage problem solved!. out of sight out of mind �



I wanna fly but they wont let me :( grr
User currently offline474218 From United States of America, joined Oct 2005, 6340 posts, RR: 9
Reply 23, posted (7 years 6 months 2 weeks 6 days 10 hours ago) and read 5789 times:

Quoting EI321 (Reply 19):
Its comes as a self contained modular unit, like a toilet. Everything is built in.

How much water can this self contained system hold? My self contained system in my RV (Caravan too you) carries forty gallons, that is enough for maybe three showers, if your quick. That forty gallons also weighs 240 lbs. If you just have showers for the first class passengers and say limit them to the first 10 passengers you are talking over a ton of extra weight.


User currently offlineStitch From United States of America, joined Jul 2005, 30898 posts, RR: 87
Reply 24, posted (7 years 6 months 2 weeks 6 days 8 hours ago) and read 5192 times:
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It is highly likely the system will use recyclers to allow the potable water load to handle multiple showers.

And while people on this board seem to get bent out of shape when they hear it, I am sure many municipalities around the world use recycled water and folks don't fear going into their showers there. Heck, don't cruise ships do water recycling in addition to (or even in place of ) de-salination of seawater?


25 Ikramerica : No, there is no confusion. The galley's are being offered. The only place I've ever heard they are not is on a.net, specifically from you, in this th
26 BoomBoom : But you don't wonder how showers would?
27 EI321 : Nowhere near as much, its probably just one shower, about the same weight as a toilet unit, whatever that weighs. No structural modifications, lifts,
28 Post contains links EI321 : Here are designs of such showers: http://www.dasell.com/interiors/aircraft-interiors.html And heres a job offer for all you aspiring aircraft toilet
29 PC12Fan : Yea, that's where I was going with that.
30 Pygmalion : they are still an available option.
31 Glom : Many offshore installations just use pot water recyc. Since we never attend black tie balls when we're offshore, it's not that big a deal.
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