Planemaker From Tuvalu, joined Aug 2003, 3968 posts, RR: 23 Posted (3 years 3 hours ago) and read 3163 times:
Check out FI's Feb. 8th issue...
Sukhoi is about to start assembling Russia's most ambitious airliner ever. In this 22-page special we explain the drivers behind the Superjet 100's creation, talk to international suppliers about what motivated them to be on board, describe technical and production details and ask whether Sukhoi really can deliver on its promise of securing orders from overseas
Next month, final assembly will begin of the most advanced Russian subsonic airliner ever produced, and arguably the most ambitious - the Sukhoi Superjet 100 (SSJ). The first Russian airliner designed from scratch to meet Western certification standards, it boasts an unprecedented number of international suppliers, incorporates fly-by-wire flight controls and an advanced flightdeck with side-stick controllers. The twinjet is powered by an all-new engine being developed by the Franco-Russian joint venture PowerJet, and is about to land a major European partner in the form of Italy's Alenia Aeronautica, which is taking a 25% stake for $250 million.
PlanenutzTB From United States of America, joined Sep 2005, 256 posts, RR: 1 Reply 1, posted (3 years 1 hour ago) and read 3029 times:
Good to see the rebirth of the Russian commercial aircraft industry. IIRC Boeing is a partner in this project as long as Sukhoi limits size to 110 seats. With the Boeings partnership, I wonder what the chances are of this plane flying domestic regional routes in the USA at some point in the future?
A question I have is why no winglets on this new design?
I am extraordinarily patient, provided I get my own way in the end.
Planemaker From Tuvalu, joined Aug 2003, 3968 posts, RR: 23 Reply 2, posted (2 years 12 months 4 days 10 hours ago) and read 2744 times:
Quoting PlanenutzTB (Reply 1): IIRC Boeing is a partner in this project as long as Sukhoi limits size to 110 seats.
It is a popular misconception that Boeing is a "partner" on this project - when they are in fact consultants...
The US airframer came on board on a consultancy basis in 2001 to provide advice on the programme management and aircraft definition, says SCAC president Victor Subbotin. "We have been in constant contact with Boeing," he says. Subbotin says that "Boeing never tells you what to do - rather it advises how to do it".
Karan69 From India, joined Oct 2004, 2638 posts, RR: 15 Reply 3, posted (2 years 12 months 4 days 10 hours ago) and read 2719 times:
I saw the mock up of it at the BLR Air Show--Aero India 2007 yesterday--there was even a vabin mock up looked real impressive--but when i asked about fuel burn and payload capabilities the reply i got was "we have still not made the aircraft yet"---he could have atleast given me an estimate.
Uzzzer From Ukraine, joined Dec 2006, 132 posts, RR: 0 Reply 5, posted (2 years 12 months 4 days 8 hours ago) and read 2624 times:
Its gonna be an interesting contest of 3 post Soviet producers with similar products. This year Antonov starts serial production of 148, Antonov plant also assembles the Russian Tupolev-334 and Sukhoj announcing RRJ for next year.
It's clear who will win Russia (of the 3), and it's clear who will win non-Russian CIS-Middle East-Africa. I wounder whether any of them will succeed to get some big clients, which are currently using Emb or CRJs.
Lumberton From United States of America, joined Jul 2005, 4249 posts, RR: 26 Reply 6, posted (2 years 12 months 4 days 6 hours ago) and read 2520 times:
Quoting Uzzzer (Reply 5): Its gonna be an interesting contest of 3 post Soviet producers with similar products.
Quite right, and the Russians (and French) are in a distant third place. I can't see where all the growth is going to come unless they feel that they're going to saturate China and India with RRJ's. How many "thin routes" are out there to service? The bad news for Embraer and Bombardier is that there will be more price competition; just what they needed!
"When all is said and done, more will be said than done".
Planemaker From Tuvalu, joined Aug 2003, 3968 posts, RR: 23 Reply 7, posted (2 years 12 months 4 days 2 hours ago) and read 2374 times:
Quoting Lumberton (Reply 6): The bad news for Embraer and Bombardier is that there will be more price competition; just what they needed!
Nothing for EMB to worry about... for a while at least.
Eventually, yes, but not in any significant form, especially for EMB, for at least the next 5 years. Just look at the SSJ EIS, production rate, and backlog.
RayChuang From United States of America, joined Jun 2000, 7141 posts, RR: 8 Reply 8, posted (2 years 12 months 3 days 20 hours ago) and read 2174 times:
I believe that the SSJ could find a market in the USA with a couple of airlines.
And yes, it's time to dig up that old chestnut about replacing Northwest Airlines' very large DC-9 fleet again. While the DC-9 has done yeoman service for NW, especially since the massive rebuild program NW did during the 1990's, the increasingly high cost of fuel and the sheer age of the DC-9 airframes makes them quite expensive to run in terms of Cost per Available Seat Mile (CASM) compared to more modern airliners. Unlike the Embraer 190/195 series, the SSJ's initial upfront cost per plane could be much lower, which makes it far more attractive to NW as a DC-9 replacement.
If Suhkoi can design the plane to withstand frequent takeoff and landing cycles, another airline that could buy the SSJ is Aloha Airlines to replace AQ's rapidly aging 737-200 fleet. Sukhoi could design the SSJ so it sports an extra-large upward-hinging side door and quickly removable seats, making it useful as a small-package/small-pallet cargo airliner in Hawaiian inter-island service.
Lumberton From United States of America, joined Jul 2005, 4249 posts, RR: 26 Reply 9, posted (2 years 12 months 3 days 20 hours ago) and read 2151 times:
Despite the overall upbeat tone of the spread on this aircraft, FI still notes the largest stumbling block to western sales:
Quote: But doubts may remain: the absence of a truly comprehensive aftersales and support network outside Russia may be harder for potential customers to ignore, he warns. While competitors Bombardier and Embraer are able to provide spare parts to aircraft worldwide within tight timescales, Salvadori is "not sure the Russians will be able to - this will be one of the main concerns". But with firm Russian political support for the venture, none of these political difficulties are insurmountable.
CEO@AFG From Norway, joined Jan 2001, 209 posts, RR: 3 Reply 11, posted (2 years 12 months 3 days 18 hours ago) and read 2009 times:
According to the article, the SSJ will be certified by the Russian Aviation Authorities first, then EASA of Europe. To be allowed to certify the aircraft according to FAA rules, there was a requirement by FAA authorities to have a US airline with interest in the aircraft.
According to Sukhoi, the FAA certification was put on hold, but recent interest by Pinneacle Airlines have brought FAA certification back on the agenda.
The SSJ clearly has a market, Embraer is the only manufacturer catering to the 75-110 seat with a complete model range. Until Bombardier decides to build the C-series, they are only competing in half the segment, and some would argue on a slightly different level than Embraers spacious E-jets.
With Sukhois SSJ, there finally is a worthy replacement for the Fokker 70/100. With airlines like Air France/KLM, SAS and Alitalia on the advisory board, there is clearly a market for this plane. When you factor in Russian aviation workers payscales in relation to the final selling price of this bird, and top of the line western avionics and systems, this is a serious contender for at least half the future orders in this segment.
"Looks like I picked the wrong week to quit sniffing glue." Steven McCroskey, Airplane!
PPVRA From Brazil, joined Nov 2004, 6291 posts, RR: 48 Reply 12, posted (2 years 12 months 3 days 17 hours ago) and read 1971 times:
Quoting CEO@AFG (Reply 11): With Sukhois SSJ, there finally is a worthy replacement for the Fokker 70/100.
The -75 seems like it was "left behind" by Sukhoi. It is much like the F70 - same wings as its larger variant.
The -95 seems much better proportioned to take on Embraer/Bombardier.
As mentioned, Boeing suggested to keep the design simple. It seems they went too far to me, unless we don't ever see the -75 fly and they go for a larger variant instead (IMO, based on E195 sales, it would need to go beyond the Boeing size cap - and that's A319/B73G territory). Although they should probably have a significant price advantage, and also availability (unlike Boeing it seems).
[Edited 2007-02-12 03:13:12]
"If goods do not cross borders, soldiers will" - Frederic Bastiat
RayChuang From United States of America, joined Jun 2000, 7141 posts, RR: 8 Reply 13, posted (2 years 12 months 3 days 12 hours ago) and read 1857 times:
Quoting PPVRA (Reply 12): As mentioned, Boeing suggested to keep the design simple. It seems they went too far to me, unless we don't ever see the -75 fly and they go for a larger variant instead (IMO, based on E195 sales, it would need to go beyond the Boeing size cap - and that's A319/B73G territory). Although they should probably have a significant price advantage, and also availability (unlike Boeing it seems).
I believe most of the SSJ sales will be the 95 seat and maybe 110 seat variant. And it is smart to keep the plane fairly simple, since that cuts both production and maintanence costs. I would like to see Sukhoi look at offering either the Pratt & Whitney PW6000 or GE CF34 engine on this plane, though.
Airbuseric From Netherlands, joined Jan 2005, 2207 posts, RR: 20 Reply 14, posted (2 years 12 months 3 days 12 hours ago) and read 1845 times:
Quoting CEO@AFG (Reply 11): With Sukhois SSJ, there finally is a worthy replacement for the Fokker 70/100. With airlines like Air France/KLM, SAS and Alitalia on the advisory board, there is clearly a market for this plane.
Indeed. With KLM/Air France closely following this project, this aircraft may become the successor of the F70/100's in KLM cityhoppers fleet.
Aeroflot777 From Russia, joined Mar 2004, 2438 posts, RR: 32 Reply 15, posted (2 years 12 months 3 days 10 hours ago) and read 1781 times:
If all goes well after this, the aircraft should be a sucess both domestically in Russia and Internationally with other carriers. It will be interesting ow all this plays out...
Aeroflot777
There is no such a thing as a bad airline or airplane. If it flies in the skies, I'm on it.
Aeroflot777 From Russia, joined Mar 2004, 2438 posts, RR: 32 Reply 17, posted (2 years 12 months 3 days 10 hours ago) and read 1773 times:
Quoting Columba (Reply 16): On that picture the plane really looks like an A320.
Quoting SOBHI51 (Reply 4): Doesn't that plane looks like a copy of A318?
In the 21st century, there are only so many ways to design a new, efficient aircraft. Expect all aircraft from now on to look similar to some other plane. Doesn't mean that teh desing was copied.
Aeroflot777
There is no such a thing as a bad airline or airplane. If it flies in the skies, I'm on it.
Columba From Germany, joined Dec 2004, 5638 posts, RR: 5 Reply 19, posted (2 years 12 months 3 days 10 hours ago) and read 1742 times:
Quoting Aeroflot777 (Reply 17): In the 21st century, there are only so many ways to design a new, efficient aircraft. Expect all aircraft from now on to look similar to some other plane. Doesn't mean that teh desing was copied.
Did not want to imply that the design was copied. It was only an observation.
In a few years watching airliners at most airports will become very boring since all aircraft will look the same. I became interested in aviation as a kid standing at TXL and FRA watching all the different looking aircraft 727s, A310s, 707s 747s, Dc 10s, L1011s, Bac 1-11s, Dc 9s, 737-200s and it was their different looks that fascinated me and wanting me to know more about them.
Life is what happens to you while you're busy making other plans - John Lennon
PEET7G From Hungary, joined Jan 2007, 471 posts, RR: 0 Reply 20, posted (2 years 12 months 3 days 9 hours ago) and read 1696 times:
I really wish a great future for this project and if they can get everything together it really will be a success! I simply keep my fingers crossed for a commercial aircraft manufacturer to rise again from Russia. They have the know how, they have the skills, all they need is financial backing, and a corruption free marketing, and of course a western style approach to the product! I think the government should endorse a merger between all the commercial producers, back them in standardizing the production, supplies and voila they could have a modern family of planes in all size categories from the SSJ to the IL96... perhaps not the most economical in their classes, but way cheaper than their counterparts and perhaps with well financed testings and upgradings those numbers could improve. I would also keep the setting up of a world wide supply-chain a priority. The lack of well maintained supplies and availability of spare parts was always a big issue for Russian planes to step out into the free market.
FriendlySkies From United States of America, joined Aug 2004, 3641 posts, RR: 7 Reply 21, posted (2 years 12 months 3 days 4 hours ago) and read 1543 times:
The only thing I'm wondering is why they didn't use a western engine. Back in Soviet days I could understand, but why does Sukhoi feel the need to use some no-name engine maker to power the SSJ? The PW6000 or CF-34 would be great options on this, and may help bolster western sales.
I'm a ramblin' wreck from georgia tech and a helluva engineer
Lumberton From United States of America, joined Jul 2005, 4249 posts, RR: 26 Reply 22, posted (2 years 12 months 3 days 4 hours ago) and read 1527 times:
Quoting FriendlySkies (Reply 21): . Back in Soviet days I could understand, but why does Sukhoi feel the need to use some no-name engine maker to power the SSJ?
SNECMA is a player in the Powerjet engine consortium, which is a good move IMO for marketing and logistics. Here's a link. http://www.powerjet.aero/
"When all is said and done, more will be said than done".
ERAUgrad02 From United States of America, joined Nov 2005, 1041 posts, RR: 0 Reply 23, posted (2 years 12 months 3 days 3 hours ago) and read 1496 times:
How much does boeing have in this? could they make a model number for this too? like the ford/mercury/lincoln all have versions of the same car?
Boeing is a consultant under condition that the plane stays under 110 seat capacity. I doubt that Boeing would be willing to provide its model numbers to something that was not created and manufactured by Boeing, even if the product is good.
Russians and Ukrainians try to keep their both airframe and engine productions alive and this is absolutely right. Then they'll have a chance of developing competitive products. The other option is to give up, do nothing and wait to die.
Having and engine option for the airlines that want to have PW or RR might be a good idea, but that wouldn't happen soon, as the first customers for the plane will be local Russian companies.
Well, Boeing is a "consultant" on the project. I would not say they are "merely" are consultant as their role is very important. However, they have ZERO, nada, zilch in equity on the SSJ project. On the other hand, Finmeccanica's Alenia division is acquiring a 25% direct equity interest in the SSJ project.
In addition, Safran SA's SNECMA jet engine division is an equity partner in the Powerjet consortium, which is providing the engines.
Safran SA has a lot invested in this project, as its Messier Dowty division is providing the landing gear and SAGEM is also a key supplier.
The SSJ is hoping Finmeccanica's vast experience in marketing the ATR program to carriers around the world will provide potential customers with sufficient confidence to place orders. The decision to seek FAA certification using the stated interest from NW/Pinnacle is a very smart move.
Nonetheless, SSJ will face an unhill battle in competing with Embraer and Bombardier's global support and marketing network. Embraer has invested over three decades in developing its marketing network and has spent untold resources in establishing its reputation as a trusted airframe manufacturer for carriers around the globe.
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While the DC-9 has done yeoman service for NW, especially since the massive rebuild program NW did during the 1990's, the increasingly high cost of fuel and the sheer age of the DC-9 airframes makes them quite expensive to run in terms of Cost per Available Seat Mile (CASM) compared to more modern airliners. Unlike the Embraer 190/195 series, the SSJ's initial upfront cost per plane could be much lower, which makes it far more attractive to NW as a DC-9 replacement.
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