Laxintl From United States of America, joined May 2000, 22219 posts, RR: 51 Reply 1, posted (6 years 4 months 6 days 19 hours ago) and read 6438 times:
Actualy LAX-Los Mochis is only twice per week (Wed/Sat) effective June 2nd.
What in the world do they think they are doing? This is going to start a blood bath between them and UA and AS which both fly much larger, lower CASM equipment.
Mangeons les French fries, mais surtout pratiquons avec fierte le French kiss
Alaska737 From United States of America, joined Feb 2006, 1056 posts, RR: 6 Reply 4, posted (6 years 4 months 6 days 18 hours ago) and read 6371 times:
Is DL trying to directly compete with AS????
we have DL announcing LAX-SEA and LAX-ANC, both of which are AS routes.
Plus LAX-SEA has a number of airlines already operating it like: AS, UA, and WN. I dont know about UA and WN, but AS opperates a lot of flights between the two cities, dont know how another flight will do. Perhaps now is time for AS to begin some flights to SLC and ATL.
SESGDL From United States of America, joined Jan 2001, 3385 posts, RR: 10 Reply 8, posted (6 years 4 months 6 days 18 hours ago) and read 6285 times:
What's next, LAX-PDX; LAX-BOI perhaps? CRJ-700 service would have been more understandable on LAX-SEA, and maybe 2x daily instead on once. Maybe they intend on building the market up a little before adding additional flights on the route. Good luck to them though, can't wait to see more routes opened from places other than ATL and JFK that are mainline though...
I would say this has a pretty good chance of happening. Other routes that might happen IMO: MEX, SJO, PHX, DFW, DEN. Those are my guesses. Heck, let's go ahead and throw in LIH, shall we?
The proper term is "on final" not "on finals" bud...
Nwray From United States of America, joined Aug 2005, 60 posts, RR: 0 Reply 14, posted (6 years 4 months 6 days 18 hours ago) and read 6210 times:
Just out of curiosity, are the RJs being used because that is the type of demand they expect, or because it is the type of equipment they have available?
SLCUT2777 From United States of America, joined Dec 2005, 3869 posts, RR: 11 Reply 15, posted (6 years 4 months 6 days 18 hours ago) and read 6181 times:
Quoting Alaska737 (Reply 4): Perhaps now is time for AS to begin some flights to SLC and ATL.
AS code shares virtually all SEA-SLC flights with DL.
Quoting N1120A (Reply 2): What in the world do they think they are doing? This is going to start a blood bath between them and UA and AS which both fly much larger, lower CASM equipment.
My thoughts entirely. Once upon a time, Western Airlines was considered the only way to fly from LAX. Western had a substantial customer base in Southern California and was #2 behind UA to Hawaii. After the DL merger in 1987, the DL presence at LAX was squandered and piddled away by two successive regimes in management who knew nothing about network planning, and what Grinstein's and Garrett's ideas really were behind that merger 2 decades ago. While a success on the equipment commonality and labor fronts, it was a disaster with respects to network planning. The DL market share in the west enjoyed by Western was slowly handed over to UA (& AA to a lesser extent) on a silver platter due to ineptitude by management under Ronald W. Allen and Leo Mullin. Under Grinstein, DL has attempted to regain some of what they had, and re-establish some old loyalties, something not easily done after such a long time. The jury will be out for some time on to how well this idea is going to work. SLC-SEA is consistently in the top five O&D routes from SLC, so perhaps this can at least bring some relief to this one since flights are almost always over-booked.
DELTA Air Lines; The Only Way To Fly from Salt Lake City; Let the Western Heritage always be with Delta!
WhatUsaid From United States of America, joined Feb 2007, 604 posts, RR: 0 Reply 16, posted (6 years 4 months 6 days 18 hours ago) and read 6164 times:
Yes but Sea and the others....this is all about the feed to Mexico.
Culican and Los Mochis are big ag centers that suggest DL could add a MRY-LAX or FAT-LAX feed for their Mexican routes next. Not for Mexican nationals, per se, rather the ag industry that commutes from a number of West Coast cities into Mexico each week, especially during the winter months when much of California agriculture moves to West Mexico.
It's an interesting experiment. Experiment meaning just that....
CALPSAFltSkeds From United States of America, joined Dec 2006, 2234 posts, RR: 7 Reply 19, posted (6 years 4 months 6 days 18 hours ago) and read 6088 times:
So who will ride on these RJ's between LAX and SEA?
The flight is loaded on DL's system. Arriving in LAX at 0955 and the return flight leaving LAX at 1805.
Connections to Mexico and limited S. American desitnations?
SkyMiles redeptions?
Die hard SkyMiles participants?
Hawaii misconnects as currently scheduled.
Connections to ATL, CVG and SLC could only help non-revs.
Has DL ran out of places to feed traffic at their hubs of ATL, SLC, CVG and JFK?
All this flight will do is add more traffic for ATC to deal with at LAX.
77411 From United States of America, joined Jul 2006, 152 posts, RR: 0 Reply 20, posted (6 years 4 months 6 days 17 hours ago) and read 6050 times:
I am sure it is an experiment as well as a stop gap measure. DL has said it wants to expand LAX but they currently do not have the equipment to do so. As a result DL will use ASA to fly routes on their behalf to at least say they are trying to use the gates at LAX to their fullest. If some of these routes succeed and that may be a big if, I am sure DL metal will take the routes over. If DL loses the gates they will be lost for good which will kill future expansion plans.
CALPSAFltSkeds From United States of America, joined Dec 2006, 2234 posts, RR: 7 Reply 22, posted (6 years 4 months 6 days 17 hours ago) and read 6028 times:
Quoting WhatUsaid (Reply 16): fter the DL merger in 1987, the DL presence at LAX was squandered and piddled away by two successive regimes in management who knew nothing about network planning,
Talk about network planning, let's look at Western before and after deregulation. Before deregulation Western's route planning mostly consisted of Point-to-point operations in the west. After derregulation ALL airlines except Western immediately dropped many routes and added routes into a hub that they built.
I saw maps of carriers routes a couple of years after deregulation showing deleted and added routes since deregulation. All other airlines' maps showed deleted routes that were fragemented and added routes into one or more hubs.
With Western, the deleted and added maps both looked the same - fragmented routes without any apparent network planning. It took a couple more years until Western found out that they should hub at SLC and realize that they couldn't plan on making money from MSP-PHX on a one-stop when NW and others started flying it non-stop. They lost precious time is which they could have hubbed LAX more effectively.
AlexInWa From United States of America, joined Sep 2000, 1107 posts, RR: 0 Reply 23, posted (6 years 4 months 6 days 17 hours ago) and read 6009 times:
I think this is interesting as DL did nothing to keep what Western built between SEA-LAX back in the day. LAX (SoCal) is the 2nd biggest O/D out of SEA. It doesn't surprise me that DL wants a piece of it, but even UA is struggling to keep up.
Back in the day, PSA, United, Western, Alaska,...etc all did this non-stop. DL kept 5x daily till about the mis 90's I think. Slowly faded to nothing.
UA once ran 737 and 727 every hour.
Now......AS is the 600lb gorilla (13x or 14x to LAX alone) and UA barely keeps up with 4x daily. And not to mention the 737-500 is the bird of choice. I always thought SEA-LAX non-stop is a route WN should look at as they have no SEA to SoCal non-stop service.
RwSEA From Netherlands, joined Jan 2005, 3024 posts, RR: 2 Reply 24, posted (6 years 4 months 6 days 17 hours ago) and read 5978 times:
Quoting Alaska737 (Reply 4): Plus LAX-SEA has a number of airlines already operating it like: AS, UA, and WN.
WN does not fly SEA-LAX. The farthest south they go from SEA is SJC/OAK.
Quoting WhatUsaid (Reply 16): Yes but Sea and the others....this is all about the feed to Mexico.
Right. Probably just a utilization turn, and to feed Mexico service. We'll see how it works out though - SEA doesn't have as much demand to Mexico as other cities on the West Coast.
25 HVNandrew: DL really wants to get back into the LAX market. They could either start a full scale buildup, and take MD88s/738s off of proven routes, and throw the
26 SLCUT2777: SLC had a central location that LAX could not offer, and no UA, CO or original F9 to compete with as at DEN. It was 1982 that Western really got SLC
27 WesternA318: They started building up the hub in around 1982 or so, and by 1986, I believe plans were to move the HQ to SLC.
28 Alaska737: true but they do offer direct flights to LAX, i believe it stops in SAC, RNO or OAK...I know that they dont offer non-stop service but people still f
29 AlexInWa: WN does non-stop SEA-LAS/PHX/ABQ/MCI/MDW/BNA Just saying that I would think non-stop SEA-LAX would be a great addition out of SEA. Although since the
30 FATFlyer: I'd agree. Los Mochis is big for cotton and tomatoes along with other crops. All big in the Fresno and Monterey areas.
31 Floridaflyboy: I remember when HP express used to use the CRJ-200 from BIL-PHX. It was not cool
32 LAXdude1023: LAX-SEA on a CRJ-200. Really??? Well we can add this to the list of flights ill never take. They need an MD-88 on this at least. Quite frankly DL is s
33 Gunsontheroof: I figured LAX-SEA would pop up at some point with their continuing LAX expansion, but I'm really surprised to see that they're only throwing a CRJ at
34 MD90fan: It's becoming really obvious that Delta has abundance of CRJs How do they really think they can compete in the swamped LAX market with uneconomical 50
35 Asqx: Certainly not as much as say LA but there are a good number of migrant workers, especially from the farm fields of eastern Washington that travel bac
36 Milesrich: Grinstein may want to reestablish Delta at LAX but offering CRJ-200 flights to SEA is not the way to do it. Who in their right mind would choose to ta
37 SLCUT2777: Mullin is the one that screwed LAX up along with Ronald W. Allen more than any two successive CEO's ever could with one carrier ! There was talk of t
38 IPFreely: Would not be most people's choice. I flew a United Express CRJ from Edmonton to Chicago about a year ago. It got pretty uncomfortable after the first
39 Iowaman: Wow. I think I'll pass on a CRJ-200 flying LAX-SEA. Interestingly enough, LAX-LAS is going from 2x CR1 to 2x CR7 March 1st. Appears to have great load
40 S12PPL: WN does not fly any non stop service between the pacific NW and LA. All service on WN is direct, or connecting.
41 WesternA318: They built a building in SLC slated for HQ, but the deal with DL came shortly after development and construction started, then Delta cancelled the ob
42 SLCUT2777: That is the old Commercial Security Bank tower that sits above Crossroads Plaza. the Beneficial Life tower sits over the old ZCMI Center Mall over on
43 N1120A: More abject stupidity. LAS is a profitable market if you fly the right sized aircraft, which means 735 and up. Running a CRJ, even a -700, means you
44 WesternA318: LMAO, just look at the "Landfill" on the corner of 300 West and South Temple..
45 Gunsontheroof: Given the business traffic on the route, I'm a bit surprised to see DL making this equipment selection. I'm putting my money on an equipment upgrade
46 WesternA318: *puts $5 down....MD-88/-90 or 737-800? I'd go with the 738..*
47 Socalatc: You can earn DL miles flying on AS. Ill take the MD/737 any day.
48 AS739X: DL will not be getting business traffic on this flight. Biz pax want flexibility, hence airlines going for frequency. 1 CRJ south in the morning and
49 Gunsontheroof: That was my point. Eventually, DL is going to want a share of the biz traffic between LAX and SEA, which will require them to upgrade their equipment
50 AS739X: Delta would be better of codesharing on the route IMHO. DL has very little market presence in the NW other then being the airline that closed its PDX
51 AirframeAS: I'd love to see that happen. Yes, I'm being serious. And vice versa... AS and DL are already codeshare partners, you know that...............right??
52 EXAAUADL: I guess they are trying to fill up the Mexico flights....BTW anyone know how their other LAX flights are doing?
53 EXAAUADL: Doubtful, they would just codeshare on American Eagle...Folks we're talking about really really low fares in these markets.
54 Kwbl: This seems to be one of the stupidest manuvers I've seen-clearly DL is going after all of that high yield business taffic with a single CRJ in a very
55 TL8490: This is starting to look like JFK in reverse. Get all the feed for international...then start international from LAX....This looks very similar to the
56 DAL767400ER: While the 757s will replace 767s, mostly to Hawaii outside of HNL, I doubt it would mean DL starting LAX-Asia, though other folks on here tend to thi
57 Laxintl: While certainly not indicative of all the flights, they have had a few Mexico customs arrivals with 10 or so people in the last couple week. The jury
58 LAXdude1023: I will believe DL wants LAX-Asia when I see it. Believe me if they do, I will throw away my UA Priemer card and start flying DL exclusively as I trav
59 FATFlyer: And we're talking about agribusiness with big travel budgets. Many times making last minute trips. The problem for the large ag corporations in place
60 727forever: Rather than getting agrivated, I could see further expansion of the AS/DL codeshare here. Plenty of code shares work where both airlines compliment e
61 Jetlanta: Everyone is missing the point. Delta is in Chapter 11 bankruptcy protection. LAWA objected to the proposed reorganization plan. Delta made a deal to i
62 MaverickM11: They've seemingly throttled back on LIR, ACA, CUL, LAP, and ZIH.
63 Laxintl: Actually LAWA is whole heartedly still going after DL. Two weeks ago there was a hearing whose outcome will likely require Delta to finally either as
64 Alitalia744: couldn't have said it better. and the lines aren't hard to read between if you just focus.... looking forward to the upcoming....
65 Jetlanta: Are you sure this is still the case? LAWA withdrew its objection to the Delta reorganization just last week. While there may still be a hearing sched
66 RoseFlyer: SEA-Mexico is a big market. It's really big to the beach destinations. Connecting traffic from SEA fueled AS's expansion into the the west coast of M
67 RwSEA: I should clarify. Demand to the resorts along the coast is huge from SEA. However, there is comparatively less demand to smaller markets in Mexico th
68 Tango-Bravo: Only AS and UA currently fly the route non-stop. Which number continues to decline. As if AS is inviting other carriers to pick up the demand they ha
69 Laxintl: Very much so. You can read all the argument and court filings at the DL BK website. Docket numbers are 4423, 4425, 4427, 4428. The withdrawal of obje
70 Evan767: The average Joe looking for a cheap fare between the Los Angeles area and Seattle and doesn't give a damn whether they are flying on an A380 or B1900
71 LAXdude1023: Youre wrong. Even my grandmother who flies once a year will ask the airline what kind of plane it is and if its a small one, she wont do it. Most fli
72 N1120A: Most definately know what an RJ is and will classify them as a "little plane"
73 NW747-400: Just a quick comment...while I agree that long flights on a CR2 such as LAX/SEA are absolutely miserable, most of the traveling public have no idea wh
74 FATFlyer: Some people will also ponder flying on a RJ versus having to change terminals at LAX. Avoiding hauling carryons around at LAX might win out for some p
75 Stirling: It could be argued that the men in charge of American, twice, with AirCal and RenoAir, then USAir with PSA, and Republic with Hughes Air West were al
76 ORD: I would agree with you that the average passenger doesn't know much about aircraft when making a reservation. But they'll know when they board the pl
77 Tango-Bravo: That may indeed be what he swore he would never do again. However, if he is a typical airline pax, what it really means is that even if he swears "ne
78 WhatUsaid: Things we do for frequent flyer miles, like RSW-ORD, ORD-COS, COS - LAX, LAX - FAT. I will say, it was a long, long day. Anyone else for trans-con RJ
80 SLCUT2777: She wants to be the first U.S. House Speaker to get a 752. After all Dick Cheney gets one!
81 Alaska737: if you would have read post 28 then you would know that i already adressed that. could i see some facts to back up this claim? In december they were
82 AvConsultant: Why would a I take a CRJ over a mainline AS???? Not for the service
83 Tango-Bravo: Glad you asked! In what I believe to be the last paper timetable published by Alaska Airlines, dated Feb. 13, 2000 - April 29, 2000... 17 weekday non
84 Alaska737: The numbers i used in mine were from the downloadable timetable from alaskaair.com, except for the part from the summer of 2001. that was from the pa
85 EXAAUADL: There is enough local traffic in these markets, but fares are quite low. Also RJs may not be suitable due to VFR traffic taking home everything inclu
86 SANFan: ...20% of the reason for this new (SEA-LAX) service. ...the other 80% of the reason! DL is obviously NOT taking on AS; they are simply adding a way f
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