Dampfnudel From United States of America, joined Oct 2006, 81 posts, RR: 0 Reply 4, posted (6 years 3 months 4 days 3 hours ago) and read 13112 times:
I just heard on WABC (Eyewitness News) that they finally let the passengers off to claim their bags. They'll be given full refunds and a free round-trip ticket for future travel. No sunny Mexican beaches this week.
Jibblets From United States of America, joined Jan 2007, 36 posts, RR: 0 Reply 5, posted (6 years 3 months 4 days 2 hours ago) and read 13098 times:
Quoting Spinkid (Thread starter): CNN is reporting that B6 flight 751 to CUN was stuck on the runway for over 8 hours today. Not very good press for them today.
Teleprompters apparently cannot be loaded with the words "apron" or "taxiway" when referring to commercial airline equipment that is somewhere between the gate and flying through the air. Apparently planes just go from runway to gate to runway.
Dampfnudel From United States of America, joined Oct 2006, 81 posts, RR: 0 Reply 9, posted (6 years 3 months 4 days 2 hours ago) and read 12950 times:
Quoting Jmc1975 (Reply 7): Hello! Perhaps that was a resource that wasn't available to them for some time. The pilot can't just pull such equipment out of thin air. There is this little thing called logistics.
Some people just don't understand the concept of logistics. If I was a passenger on that plane, I would understand that concept...to a point.
Riddle274 From United States of America, joined Feb 2007, 75 posts, RR: 0 Reply 11, posted (6 years 3 months 4 days 2 hours ago) and read 12877 times:
Quoting Dampfnudel (Reply 9): Some people just don't understand the concept of logistics. If I was a passenger on that plane, I would understand that concept...to a point.
Yes, that is my point . . . we may understand that, but for a passenger who has been sitting on a plane for "8 hours", that may be a question that comes to mind. Regardless, I'm sure the crews did the best they could under those conditions.
Ewmahle From United States of America, joined Mar 2005, 109 posts, RR: 0 Reply 13, posted (6 years 3 months 4 days 2 hours ago) and read 12838 times:
It is understanding that a plane cant just be pulled into anywhere and parked. But what is the reason that it takes hours for a bus to be utilized. Do you think that JetBlue waited to call upon the bus service or was it truely that difficult to find a bus. I have not been to JFK. Do they not have busses that run between terminals like PHL or IAD? Even if they don't I am pretty sure there are shuttles in the parking lot. That is what does't make sense to me, maybe someone can shed some light.
OPNLguy From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR: Reply 15, posted (6 years 3 months 4 days 1 hour ago) and read 12576 times:
Quoting Jibblets (Reply 5): Teleprompters apparently cannot be loaded with the words "apron" or "taxiway" when referring to commercial airline equipment that is somewhere between the gate and flying through the air. Apparently planes just go from runway to gate to runway.
I think the teleprompters also have software what automatically defaults to using the work "tarmac" whenever referring to a general paved surface anywhere on an airport, irrespective of it being a runway, taxiway, or ramp area. I have 25+ years in the biz, and I've yet to hear any airline person use the word "tarmac" in any context.
Quoting HZ747300 (Reply 10): Remember with AA587 crashed, jetBlue setup a makeshift hub in Newburgh and bussed passengers down to the city. have they lost their creativity in just a few short years???
I must have missed that one. Since AA587 crashed well off-airport, with JFK itself not having been closed (to the best of my knowledge, or if it was closed, only briefly for a runway inspection, etc.), why would jetBlue have had the need for a makeshift hub at SWF?
Wouldn't being stuck on a B6 A320 for 8 hours be better than being on an AA MD-80 for that amount of time? Unless the TV's weren't on and they didn't hand out food. Then the only good thing would be more legroom, but that doesn't help pass the time, just makes it more bearable.
Hiflyer From United States of America, joined Nov 2004, 2117 posts, RR: 4 Reply 19, posted (6 years 3 months 4 days ago) and read 12372 times:
With what has happened with pax on aircaft during weather events the past two years you don't open yourself up to even coming close to it. B6 had facility issues at JFK as they went to the FAA to have a groundstop to JFK issued for just their aircraft this morning. That would tend to indicate that they had a situation already at JFK and needed the FAA's help to stop their own aircraft from taking off at outlying stations. CO had to do the same at CLE and UA did the same for their Express at IAD today.
Aeroflot777 From Russia, joined Mar 2004, 2957 posts, RR: 30 Reply 21, posted (6 years 3 months 4 days ago) and read 12280 times:
It's a little amazing to see comments like, "Couldn't they have done something", or "Have they lost their creativity".
I'm 100% positive that jetBlue wasn't just sitting there and getting a kick out of the situation. It's not like they wanted to keep the pax stranded. There was just no way of getting them out of there for whatever reason, and we are no one to judge that.
Welcome to the chaotic travel industry. The skies are so packed, a little problem can turn into a big one, I'm not even talking about weather. Problems occur. Mistakes happen.
The pax are getting great compensation, just let it all go...
VEEREF From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR: Reply 22, posted (6 years 3 months 4 days ago) and read 12250 times:
Quoting FFlyer (Reply 17): Didn't they introduce a law that requires airlines to handle these situations better?
And if you read the article further, the reason is that they were going to try to get the flight off if they could. Sometimes a window can open very quickly, and if you're back at the gate with everyone milling around the terminal most likely you will miss it.
Either way it was a bad situation. I have been in that same situation many times and things change very quickly. I've been told there's a ground stop with no updates and gone back to the gate to let everyone off the plane, only to be told 10 minutes later that I need to be in the air within 15 minutes. Impossible if I have pax running al over the terminal, then get in back in line for takeoff.
Daus From United States of America, joined May 2005, 284 posts, RR: 0 Reply 23, posted (6 years 3 months 4 days ago) and read 12221 times:
What most people don't userstand (including me) is what the "logistical" problem really is. Northwest gets dinged with these occurances every once in a while. Common sense, would indicate that you move a different plane (which isn't going anywhere anytime soon) away from a gate, in order for this plane to return and allow de-planing.
Is it that there is no equipment to move a plane away?
Is it not safe or possible to move a plane and free a gate during that kind of weather?
Could the stranded plane not make it back to the gate even if they did free a gate?
Is it not all "logisitcs" but the desire of the airline not to cancel the flight in the first place?
Flypdx From United States of America, joined Apr 2005, 636 posts, RR: 0 Reply 24, posted (6 years 3 months 4 days ago) and read 12223 times:
Quoting OPNLguy (Reply 15): I must have missed that one. Since AA587 crashed well off-airport, with JFK itself not having been closed (to the best of my knowledge, or if it was closed, only briefly for a runway inspection, etc.), why would jetBlue have had the need for a makeshift hub at SWF?
I believe that JFK was shut down after the crash for quite some time that day due to terrorism concerns.
25 VEEREF: Any of the above could be correct, in any combination, as well as a myriad of other possible factors. It's a no win situation for both sides, but it'
26 WorldTraveler: I'm sorry but I can't understand how an airline asks the FAA to impose a groundstop for its own flights because of gate management isues. American Eag
27 BayAreaBlue: Today has been a very tough day at JetBlue. With IAD, JFK and BOS being closed for a major part of the day and only limited operations are occuring, d
28 OPNLguy: It's really pretty simple. One call to ATCSCC who issues the groundstop for you, versus the airline's OCC making multiple calls to multiple airports
29 Lincoln: If it didn't happen after the Nothwest cluster a few years ago I wouldn't put money on it hapening any time soon. Regardless, if a flight blocked out
30 VEEREF: The airlines understand. Yes. When there isn't a major snowstorm sitting on the entire east coast. If there are already aircraft on gates that can't
31 RJpieces: This doesn't appear nearly as bad as the horrible winter storm of 2006, when jetBlue just had 12 or so gates (before the temporary terminal opened) an
32 BayAreaBlue: In JFK, if the a/c are not RON at the gate, they are parked on the hard stand which is on the other side of the construction area for the new T5. A/c
33 RP TPA: Based on some of the aviation stories over the years, I'm not entirely certain that the media understands the concept of "runway" and "gate", let alo
34 DSMflyer: You weren't working this one, were you?
35 AeroWesty: Whichever airline he was on will probably get a roasting tomorrow night on his show.
36 Mir: No they do not. None of those either. The parking lots are all reached by AirTrain now. Probably there is equipment, but: Safe, yes. Possible, perhap
37 Ikramerica: People sure are giving B6 the benefit of the doubt for the most part, as contrasted to AA, where people, including myself, were not cutting them any s
38 FXramper: Apple and oranges...get over it. Ridiculous to say the least about B6. The morning AUS flight into JFK also sat for almost 8 hrs after arrival. Lavs
39 Wdleiser: What if all the B6 gates were taken, other planes taking up space on the tarmac and taxiways and weather that is bad enough that tugs will have troub
40 RJpieces: All of the B6 gates were taken because B6 always tries to operate as many flights as possible during snowstorms. If they had cancelled flights in ant
41 Wukka: Anyone in their right mind would have called for an immediate offload due to a medical emergency (or emergencies) at that point. Regardless of the sk
42 InTheSky74: I'm sorry, but I can't sit here and watch people BASH JetBlue when they were not the only airline to have this problem today. It seems that everyone l
43 Jamake1: It's pretty amazing. We can send a man to the moon, astronauts into space, but we cannot get passengers off of an airplane during a winter snowstorm.
44 HB-IWC: I believe it wasn't just B6 last night. KL641 AMS JFK, for instance, used almost 13 hours gate to gate for a total flying time of just under 8 hours.
45 EDICHC: It never ceases to amaze me how air transportation goes into meltdown in the US as soon as the weather turns nasty! As another poster said, you guys m
46 OPNLguy: MSY has ILS CAT-I, CAT-II, and CAT-III approaches to runway 10 available. Now, some questions for you. What was the weather when the inbound flight a
47 NYCAAer: JetBlue didn't have a monopoly on passengers being trapped on airplanes. I don't know why they're the only ones getting the bad press. I was scheduled
48 JetJock22: Everyone got caught with their pants around their ankles yesterday, plain and simple. Best thing to do now is to look ahead to today and do the best t
49 HB-IWC: That must have been about the average yesterday after 5pm. Some not so lucky ones sat on some taxiway for up to 6 hours after a transatlantic or tran
50 JetBluefan1: This was definitely not handled correctly, but keep in mind that JetBlue was not the only airline that had such problems. JFK was an absolute disaster
51 IH8B6: Here we go again….. Yes, it sucks all of those people were stuck on the flight for 8 plus hours. Many airlines had many pax stuck on many airplanes
52 OPNLguy: It's not necessarily so much a lack of de-icing trucks sometimes as it is a lack of functional de-icing trucks available for use at exactly the time
53 ImperialEagle: This is going to throw more fuel on the fire, as next week the US Senate is due to hear requests for a "Passengers Bill of Rights". I've heard pax. sa
54 OPNLguy: Great idea--all we need are injuries from passenger-induced evacuations that put folks down on the ramp and/or taxiways with aircraft engines running
55 AJMIA: Yes but these people were flying from New York. I am originally from New York. In New York a two hour delay in real time translates into an eight hou
56 Halls120: Excellent point. They couldn't driven a bus out to the aircraft that couldn't get to a gate? Maybe JFK needs to have a place set aside for incoming a
57 Hiflyer: I'm sorry but I don't buy stranding pax off gate. That is amateurish on many levels and clear sign of a lack of policy and planning. 35 years in airpo
58 Jfk777: I hope today JFK has more de-icing trucks, it speaks badly of the USA to have a situation at JFK showing how we can't handle a winter storm. In Canada
59 SeeTheWorld: JetBlue screwed up yesterday at JFK. It appears that they were trying too hard to keep their schedule intact, which was risky especially since it was
60 TheSorcerer: Wow that's some delay. Longest delay I've ever had was 4 hours and that was in the airport, not the A/C. Dominic
61 Tsnamm: B6 is being bashed hard in the local press in NYC...the stranded passengers and aircraft stranding horror stories are all over the TV and radio includ
62 Nycfly75: Indeed, while not defending anything that happened, the NWS maintained up until mid morning that JFK and the entire south shore of Long Island would
63 Spacecadet: There are two things I think some of you who are defending JetBlue here either aren't understanding or just plain don't know: 1) It wasn't one flight.
64 Clickhappy: So, they were trying to keep the departure window open, with no food and drink, and overflowing toilets? Sure they were.
65 IAHFLYR: Yeah so they can all sit and watch the outside of their airplane throught the snow on TV. What other airline kept their passengers and crew on an air
66 LawnDart: I've got a great idea...let's take all the airwhiners on this thread who think B6 royally screwed up, and let's have them deal with JFK operations the
67 Richierich: I think somebody dropped the ball on this one. There had to be something that could be done. I would be inclined to agree with you, but the "food" co
68 HB-IWC: Plenty of longhaul inbounds took between 3 and 8 hours just to reach the gate last night. B6 was really not an exception in this case.