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AA And AE Add And Upgrade RDU  
User currently offlineERJ170 From United States of America, joined Apr 2004, 6791 posts, RR: 17
Posted (7 years 10 months 2 weeks 1 day 5 hours ago) and read 5539 times:

OMG.. what's going on here?

American Eagle adds 2x SDF, MCI, JAX

American announce their previously known upgrades to LGA and AUS...

Who would have thunked AA would respond to ExpressJet in such a manner? This ain't MIA, ORD, or DFW? WTHell?


Aiming High and going far..
75 replies: All unread, showing first 25:
 
User currently offlineERJ170 From United States of America, joined Apr 2004, 6791 posts, RR: 17
Reply 1, posted (7 years 10 months 2 weeks 1 day 5 hours ago) and read 5526 times:

BTW.. on another note.. AA has also upgraded/downgraded.. not sure which.. most of the flights between ORD-RDU and DFW-RDU from MD80 to MD83... dont' know what that means.. but it was a change also..


Aiming High and going far..
User currently offlineCommavia From United States of America, joined Apr 2005, 11979 posts, RR: 62
Reply 2, posted (7 years 10 months 2 weeks 1 day 5 hours ago) and read 5477 times:

Quoting ERJ170 (Thread starter):
American Eagle adds 2x SDF, MCI, JAX

I think JAX may work because of inbound connections to RDU from the northeast -- places like EWR, LGA, BOS, BDL, etc. MCI is a long-shot but may work on O&D and SDF is, in my view, hopeless. What a waste of precious RJ resources.

Quoting ERJ170 (Thread starter):
Who would have thunked AA would respond to ExpressJet in such a manner?

It is a stupid decision to throw planes into markets where AA has no business being. If they truly think they can make money on these routes, then fine, they should try them out. But I doubt that is what is going on here. These planes would be put to far, far better use in other markets, like beefing up RJ service out of Miami, or restoring more DFW-upper midwest service.


User currently offlineHumberside From United Kingdom, joined Dec 2005, 4927 posts, RR: 4
Reply 3, posted (7 years 10 months 2 weeks 1 day 5 hours ago) and read 5474 times:

Why only some of the ExpressJet markets - these new flights probably wont be enough to keep XJet out of RDU


Visit the Air Humberside Website and Forum
User currently offlineMSYtristar From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 4, posted (7 years 10 months 2 weeks 1 day 5 hours ago) and read 5441 times:

Quoting ERJ170 (Reply 1):
most of the flights between ORD-RDU and DFW-RDU from MD80 to MD83... dont' know what that means

The M83's have longer legs, that's all. No capacity difference.


User currently offlineMaverickM11 From United States of America, joined Apr 2000, 17827 posts, RR: 46
Reply 5, posted (7 years 10 months 2 weeks 1 day 4 hours ago) and read 5407 times:

Quoting Humberside (Reply 3):
these new flights probably wont be enough to keep XJet out of RDU

I'm fairly certain Xjet would eventually kick itself out of RDU.

Quoting Commavia (Reply 2):
I think JAX may work because of inbound connections to RDU from the northeast -- places like EWR, LGA, BOS, BDL, etc.

Ala FlyI? Connecting traffic from all those places over RDU to JAX is going to be very low yield....on an RJ.



E pur si muove -Galileo
User currently offlineERJ170 From United States of America, joined Apr 2004, 6791 posts, RR: 17
Reply 6, posted (7 years 10 months 2 weeks 1 day 4 hours ago) and read 5402 times:

If you ask me... 3 much better routes they could have started from RDU:

PVD - 3x daily ERJ
BUF - 2x daily ERJ
RSW - 2x daily ERJ
SAN - 1x 738
SEA - 1x 738
SFO - 1x 738
CUN - 1x MD80

Take your pick! Any of THESE would have been much better resources and would have been full every day.. but instead to throw some RJ on routes just because another carrier wants to offer something that AA NEVER would have done before? CRAZY!!!!



Aiming High and going far..
User currently offlineRL757PVD From United States of America, joined Dec 1999, 4718 posts, RR: 11
Reply 7, posted (7 years 10 months 2 weeks 1 day 4 hours ago) and read 5397 times:

I hope they reconsider PVD... PVD-RDU went from 3x ER3 up to 3x ER4 1x ER3 within the first year, then they dropped it completely within a year after that....


Experience is what you get when what you thought would work out didn't!
User currently offlineAJMIA From United States of America, joined Dec 2005, 737 posts, RR: 15
Reply 8, posted (7 years 10 months 2 weeks 1 day 4 hours ago) and read 5380 times:

I was hoping they would bring back RDU-HPN.

ORD-HPN is going up to 10x on weekdays.

Any new HPN service had better be added soon before the caps are maxed out.

AJMIA



Lady it's a jet... not a kite.
User currently offlineERJ170 From United States of America, joined Apr 2004, 6791 posts, RR: 17
Reply 9, posted (7 years 10 months 2 weeks 1 day 4 hours ago) and read 5375 times:

Quoting MaverickM11 (Reply 5):
I'm fairly certain Xjet would eventually kick itself out of RDU.

I disagree.. Xjet will still do well because RDU is very business oriented.. and the traffic will be able to sustain both.. but I do believe that XJet will probably drop SDF (at which so will AE).. but there are plenty of other opportunities at RDU for XJet.. If they ever move North.. it's on! There are so many RDU-XXX opportunities..



Aiming High and going far..
User currently offlineMSYguy From United States of America, joined Feb 2007, 113 posts, RR: 0
Reply 10, posted (7 years 10 months 2 weeks 1 day 4 hours ago) and read 5339 times:

This type of carrier behavior is frustrating, from a non-hub passenger's perspective. An enterprising carrier determines that it can make money on a city pair that isn't presently served. They announce and implement the service. Another carrier decides to roll out its own new service on the route. Both routes perform poorly. Both carriers stop the service. Passengers lose out.

I realize each carrier has the right to provide the service it chooses to. But if both carriers were acting with strict economic motives, the second carrier would stay away (or the remaining carrier after one ceases service on the new route would continue the service thereafter).

You can't tell me AA is rolling out service on RDU/SDF because they think they can make money. They're trying to keep the marketplace smaller by pushing Xjet out of business. At least that's my take. If someone has a viable theory about a legitimate economic motive for AA in this situation, I'm eager to hear it.


User currently offlineCommavia From United States of America, joined Apr 2005, 11979 posts, RR: 62
Reply 11, posted (7 years 10 months 2 weeks 1 day 4 hours ago) and read 5323 times:

I agree with what others have opined ...

Rather than wasting time, money and a (very) scarce resource -- namely Eagle RJ capacity -- on markets like MCI and SDF, and possibly JAX, I think Eagle would have done much better to restore service to markets like PVD and HPN, probably with 3x daily service each. Both of those cities, in my view, could support higher and more consistent yields and loads than any of these three markets Eagle has just announced. But, then again, what do I know? I don't have the same date Eagle does, and they did, after all, drop both PVD and HPN when they tried them the first times around.


User currently offlineMSYtristar From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 12, posted (7 years 10 months 2 weeks 1 day 4 hours ago) and read 5315 times:

Quoting MSYguy (Reply 10):
If someone has a viable theory about a legitimate economic motive for AA in this situation, I'm eager to hear it.

There is none. This is nothing more than AA defending its turf. And if XJET pulls out of one or some of the markets, and AA decides to keep them, watch the prices skyrocket. Typical predatory move, but this time using RJ's instead of mainline.


User currently offlineMD90fan From Bahamas, joined Jul 2005, 2931 posts, RR: 7
Reply 13, posted (7 years 10 months 2 weeks 1 day 4 hours ago) and read 5299 times:

Bringing back the weekend RDU-NAS service would have been nice too.....

AE probably could have pulled it off with better advertising and maybe better timing to connect with some of the Northeast flights.


Cheers



http://www.devanwells.blogspot.com/
User currently offlineMaverickM11 From United States of America, joined Apr 2000, 17827 posts, RR: 46
Reply 14, posted (7 years 10 months 2 weeks 1 day 4 hours ago) and read 5287 times:

Quoting ERJ170 (Reply 9):
Xjet will still do well because RDU is very business oriented

I hear that, but Xjet won't be able to offer the perks or frequency that those business travels need. If it didn't work for Washington DC where there was a sizeable hub, how the heck is it going to work for RDU with a handful of flights?



E pur si muove -Galileo
User currently offlineERJ170 From United States of America, joined Apr 2004, 6791 posts, RR: 17
Reply 15, posted (7 years 10 months 2 weeks 1 day 4 hours ago) and read 5261 times:

Quoting MaverickM11 (Reply 14):
I hear that, but Xjet won't be able to offer the perks or frequency that those business travels need. If it didn't work for Washington DC where there was a sizeable hub, how the heck is it going to work for RDU with a handful of flights?

XJet can make it work by doing one thing and one thing only...

Morning departures out of RDU (B/w 6a-8a) / evening departures out of RDU (b/w 6p-8p) and morning arrivals b/w 7a-8a / evening arrivals b/w 6-7p...

That is the most important time for business travelers.. period..



Aiming High and going far..
User currently offlineRDUDDJI From Lesotho, joined Jun 2004, 1548 posts, RR: 3
Reply 16, posted (7 years 10 months 2 weeks 1 day 3 hours ago) and read 5235 times:

Quoting MSYguy (Reply 10):
This type of carrier behavior is frustrating, from a non-hub passenger's perspective. An enterprising carrier determines that it can make money on a city pair that isn't presently served. They announce and implement the service. Another carrier decides to roll out its own new service on the route. Both routes perform poorly. Both carriers stop the service. Passengers lose out.

It's sad but true. And IMO one could use this type of move to make a good argument about why we need regulation again. I'm actually somewhat surprised to see AA/AE make a move like this at a non-hub and a city they have pretty much forsaken over the last decade. This seems like something NW would do. (see MKE, IND, LAN, etc.)

RDU-SDF on two carriers...you gotta be kidding me!

Quoting Commavia (Reply 11):
Rather than wasting time, money and a (very) scarce resource -- namely Eagle RJ capacity -- on markets like MCI and SDF, and possibly JAX, I think Eagle would have done much better to restore service to markets like PVD and HPN, probably with 3x daily service each. Both of those cities, in my view, could support higher and more consistent yields and loads than any of these three markets Eagle has just announced.

True.



Sometimes we don't realize the good times when we're in them
User currently offlineERJ170 From United States of America, joined Apr 2004, 6791 posts, RR: 17
Reply 17, posted (7 years 10 months 2 weeks 1 day 3 hours ago) and read 5212 times:

Although it would be a better utilization of the American Eagle RJ on the HPN and BUF route.. I think PVD and NAS should be at least a E70 route.. something AA nor AE has... and the CR7 is not an option for it does not make an appearance at RDU EVER..

And since AA/AE is so committed to RDU (as their press statement says), why don't they go ahead with their original plan and open the maintenance hanger they were supposed too? That's what I'm talking about..



Aiming High and going far..
User currently offlineCasInterest From United States of America, joined Feb 2005, 4796 posts, RR: 3
Reply 18, posted (7 years 10 months 2 weeks 1 day 3 hours ago) and read 5151 times:

Ok ,
So who wants to make a bet on how long the routes will last at either or both carriers?


JAX and MCI could be here to stay in one form or another.
SDF I predict will be toast by the end of the summer.



Older than I just was ,and younger than I will soo be.
User currently offlineERJ170 From United States of America, joined Apr 2004, 6791 posts, RR: 17
Reply 19, posted (7 years 10 months 2 weeks 1 day 3 hours ago) and read 5142 times:

Agreed.. JAX and MCI are pretty much gonna make it (although, if YX decided to enter.. OMG)

SDF could make it on one, but no the other.. unfortunately, I think XE would be the first to drop it since they will probably be a bit more expensive on it than AE.. and then I think AE will drop it 2 months later.. but if it was a single operator route, I am 99% sure it would be a keeper..



Aiming High and going far..
User currently offlineMaverickM11 From United States of America, joined Apr 2000, 17827 posts, RR: 46
Reply 20, posted (7 years 10 months 2 weeks 1 day 3 hours ago) and read 5116 times:

Quoting ERJ170 (Reply 15):
Morning departures out of RDU (B/w 6a-8a) / evening departures out of RDU (b/w 6p-8p) and morning arrivals b/w 7a-8a / evening arrivals b/w 6-7p...

You ever try to schedule a plane like that Silly?



E pur si muove -Galileo
User currently offlineERJ170 From United States of America, joined Apr 2004, 6791 posts, RR: 17
Reply 21, posted (7 years 10 months 2 weeks 1 day 3 hours ago) and read 5107 times:

Quoting MaverickM11 (Reply 20):
You ever try to schedule a plane like that Silly?

Well no.. but it should be as close to that as possible.. well, at least for SDF, BHM, MCI, and JAX...

MSY is definitely a leisure flight and can be flown at any time of the day and do well..

SAT.. now I don't know about that one.. probably another anytime of the day since it is a longer flight..

But i guess I'm thinking in a perfect world..

Added thought..

It also depends on how many aircraft will be stationed at RDU as to how well it can be performed.. if it's 2, then at least some of them coudl work out perfectly..

[Edited 2007-02-15 20:55:51]


Aiming High and going far..
User currently offlinePVD757 From United States of America, joined Aug 2003, 3420 posts, RR: 16
Reply 22, posted (7 years 10 months 2 weeks 1 day 1 hour ago) and read 4979 times:

PVD-RDU would be awesome for AE, maybe they will re-think it in time...

User currently offlineMSYguy From United States of America, joined Feb 2007, 113 posts, RR: 0
Reply 23, posted (7 years 10 months 2 weeks 1 day 1 hour ago) and read 4960 times:

Quoting MSYtristar (Reply 12):
This is nothing more than AA defending its turf.

Maddening. And this isn't even really their turf, as others have pointed out. It's not like XJET marched into DFW or something.

Quoting MaverickM11 (Reply 14):
but Xjet won't be able to offer the perks or frequency that those business travels need.

I don't understand this. XJET is offering the same type of aircraft (RJ) and essentially the same frequency (2x or 3x) as AA. Also, XJET will have a first class cabin in its RJs, while AA will not.


User currently offlineERJ170 From United States of America, joined Apr 2004, 6791 posts, RR: 17
Reply 24, posted (7 years 10 months 2 weeks 1 day ago) and read 4910 times:

It seems AA is trying to one up XE also.. because they are starting their routes May 1.. while XE are rumored to be starting their flights June 1.. so AA will have one full month to get passengers.. and XE hasn't even stated their official start dates yet so no one can even book them.. some XE probably should remedy ASAP..


Aiming High and going far..
25 CasInterest : I wonder if XJet will rething their routes prior to going in. I also wonder if they expected this ,and that is why they waited to announce their star
26 FCYTravis : ExpressJet does not have a First Class cabin.
27 ConcordeBoy : An argument yes... a good one, doubtful. Agreed.
28 ElmoTheHobo : American's trump card is AAdvantage. That by itself makes up for a 1 less daily flight. This is American we are talking about, they are specialists a
29 ERJ170 : AA home turf = MIA, ORD, DFW, STL, SJU, LGA, JFK, BOS, LAX, LHR AA pseudo-step chu'rens = RDU, AUS, SJC If they really wanted to do a better favor fo
30 MAH4546 : This sucks for Raleigh. American Eagle will easily out-perform ExpressJets on these routes. There is absolutley no question about that. Then, Expressj
31 KcrwFlyer : How does Expressjet flying to these cities pose a threat to AA to the point where they go 2x to each city?? This really disturbs me to know that an ai
32 AJMIA : This confuses me. I can understand protecting your turf, but what is AA protecting? These are all nonstop markets where we don't have service AND at
33 MAH4546 : They are sending a message out to Expressjet. They aren't nessecarily protecting a specific turf, but they don't want Expressjet to be flying indeped
34 MSYguy : I thought I had read they would have two classes of service, but in a quick search on their website, I don't see any evidence of that. Sorry for the
35 ERJ170 : American will be flying 37 and 44 seat aircraft on these routes.. with typical AA service... Expressjet will be flying 50 seat aircraft on these route
36 MAH4546 : You are way too optimistic. At this point, I think it is very possible that XJET won't even start these routes.
37 PVD757 : is it me or are these flights not bookable/in any schedule provider yet???
38 MtnWest1979 : On xjet.com, the cities are TBA, and I read somewhere they will announce schedules and start dates on 2/25. Don't know if it will be the remainder of
39 PVD757 : thanks, but I was referring to the AE flights...
40 MSYguy : AA doesn't have them up on its "new service" page, either.
41 MAH4546 : AA flights will be uploaded tonight at around 2-3AM. The "new services" page is rarely updated once a month at most, sometimes twice.
42 Post contains images UncGSO : RDU gets even more flights and destinations and people still complain. Just think how much worse it could be. The three letter code could be GSO.
43 RDUDDJI : Agreed, I'm wondering if RDU will see xjet at all.
44 ERJ170 : Well, I hope XJet does start RDU. I think XJet will shift some flight around once they get comfortable.. probably drop SDF and start a new route... bu
45 TSRA : Not necessarily.... After XE and AE stimulate traffic between RDU-MCI and both pull out, YX will be in to pick up the pieces.....
46 MAH4546 : American Ealge will not pull out until XE does. That is the purpose of them starting these routes: to get XE out. True, that is possible.
47 Rdukid : I agree completly. I hate talking bad about AA b/c it is the airline I am most loyal too but the decision to start service to places like SDF and MCI
48 ERJ170 : Florida is a pretty much low yield locale.. except MIA and JAX as they are more business oriented and can thus bring in a higher price fare. And Amer
49 XJET : I think you are way too negative. Other than AAdvantage, XE has a much better product. XM radios, memory foam seats, full meal service, and pleasant
50 CasInterest : Well, Wirh Forbes announcing that Raleigh-Cary is the #1 Metro area for jobs in 2007, another notch has been added for prestige. I expect many more de
51 TSRA : I think this will answer that question.
52 ERJ170 : Look for more HQ moving to the RTP/TRIAD/CLT area.. all three are very inexpensive in comparison to the rest of the nation.. all have a good educatio
53 BigGSFO : Well, IMO, (and it might not be a popular one), I would think AA could draw down STL further and re-allocate those assets to RDU. The STL operation ap
54 ERJ170 : Except.. I'm remember reading somewhere that RDU has stated they are not interested in being an AA hub again.. And they are currently in final negoti
55 Post contains images BigGSFO : Point taken. I am not that familiar with RDU's layout, logistics and politics. Just thinking from my "arm chair."
56 CasInterest : Yeah, RDU might not be interested, but it is starting to look like AA is having it's own change of heart in the situation. However as ERJ170 stated,
57 LambertMan : While you say it may be redundant, the redundancy is minimal because American doesn't really offer many connecting options through St. Louis (minus s
58 ERJ170 : And, you have to remember that the popn around RDU isn't really that high.. Its at about the 1.5 Million mark.. the one thing that makes RDU such a hi
59 LambertMan : I meant what American could feasibly add in addition to what the airport currently has, which is what American would be doing if they re-allocated ST
60 ERJ170 : It wouldn't be feasible... no need to even speculate..
61 Post contains links RDUDDJI : Now AA's throwing our double miles to stimulate demand on these Xjet crusher routes... http://biz.yahoo.com/prnews/070228/daw027.html?.v=87
62 RJNUT : I have checked and there are a lot of thru connections to the East from MCI- to DCA/BDL/BOS,ETC. via RDU etc. so that will dilute their yield up again
63 MAH4546 : I am not doubting that XE offers a much better project. They certainly do. Unfortunately, Independence Air " target=_blank>http://biz.yahoo.com/prnew
64 ERJ170 : I hope you are wrong, MAH4546, but I guess time will tell. But anyway, very good for RDU.. 239 daily flights 98% O&D 50% business/50% leisure 45 desti
65 Post contains images BigGSFO : Yeah, but how many Starbucks?
66 ERJ170 : Ain't that the truth! You can get dopped up and twitchy on 4 starbucks, but you can't get the first NC-style BBQ plate with cole slaw, french fries,
67 MAH4546 : It really all depends on how ExpressJet chooses to respond to American Eagle. If Expressjet decides to stick it out and not give in, then American Ea
68 ERJ170 : American ups RDU again.. looks like on April 14, RDU-JFK goes from 5x daily to 6x daily.. so as of May 1, the schedule looks like this: MIA (3x 738) O
69 Galapagapop : Has LAX-RDU been considered? Seems like it's be a logical route for AA to connect their ops in LAX and RDU.
70 MAH4546 : They aren't going to fly it with Delta on the route.
71 MrSTL : Wow, 63 flights, I did not realize they were running this many out of RDU. Yes they are mounting a defense to Express Jet, obviously they consider RD
72 Post contains images XJET : I doubt this.....but I would like to be proven wrong!
73 ERJ170 : They would not consider it anyway.. Not really, only JAX, MCI, and SDF are mounted against XJet.. everything else was already there. In fact, its a s
74 MSYguy : ERJ170, does any other carrier have close to that number of flights/cities at RDU? I know RDU was once an AA hub, but I didn't realize they were still
75 ERJ170 : In order of number of flights, the rank is American/American Eagle at 63 US Airways/US Airways Express at 44 Delta/Delta Connection at 34 Southwest at
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