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9 Skywest Planes/ 4 Frontier Planes Damaged In DEN  
User currently offlineUAPremierGuy From United States of America, joined Oct 2005, 206 posts, RR: 0
Posted (7 years 9 months 2 weeks 2 days 2 hours ago) and read 12047 times:

Not very clear on extent of damage, or how or where (i.e. in air or on ground) it occurred...

http://www.9news.com/news/article.aspx?storyid=64966


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28 replies: All unread, showing first 25:
 
User currently offlineF9Animal From United States of America, joined Dec 2004, 5116 posts, RR: 28
Reply 1, posted (7 years 9 months 2 weeks 2 days ago) and read 11908 times:

As I read it, they said it was windshield damage. If that is the case, I would suspect perhaps hail? Strong winds are nothing new to DEN, so I would have a hard time believing it was caused by just that, especially if it was the windshields.


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User currently offlineYtib From United States of America, joined Nov 2004, 577 posts, RR: 1
Reply 2, posted (7 years 9 months 2 weeks 1 day 19 hours ago) and read 11562 times:

This morning I heard Joe Hodas state on 9News they are unsure of what caused this damage. Two of the aircraft were at the gate, while two were departing when the damage occurred. Those two returned to DEN. He did state a longshot could be something with the ground power not at the proper voltage causing damage with the electricity within the window, however that does sound odd.

I am wondering at what gates these aircraft were parked, as F9 has two gates at the far east of Concourse A and Skywest has gates at the east side of Concourse B could that be something leading to the possible cause?


User currently offlineHmmmm... From Canada, joined May 1999, 2109 posts, RR: 5
Reply 3, posted (7 years 9 months 2 weeks 1 day 17 hours ago) and read 11318 times:

http://edition.cnn.com/2007/WEATHER/02/17/winter.weather.ap/index.html

CNN reports 13 cracked windshields in total but says nothing about hail. Very strange. Looks like Denver has a crack problem.

[Edited 2007-02-17 19:27:03]


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User currently offlineDetroitflyer From United States of America, joined Oct 2006, 392 posts, RR: 0
Reply 4, posted (7 years 9 months 2 weeks 1 day 15 hours ago) and read 10033 times:

damn, thats gotta cost a lot and frustrate many passengers if they end up delaying/cancelling (which they would probably have to )


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User currently offlineAerowrench From United States of America, joined Jan 2006, 52 posts, RR: 0
Reply 5, posted (7 years 9 months 2 weeks 1 day 13 hours ago) and read 9307 times:

The opinion from the mechanics working on the OO aircraft is that small pebbles were being blown up by the strong winds. On one of the aircraft, a CRJ 700, all four cockpit windows were cracked.

User currently offlineUSAFHummer From United States of America, joined May 2000, 10685 posts, RR: 52
Reply 6, posted (7 years 9 months 2 weeks 1 day 13 hours ago) and read 9260 times:

Cockpit Windscreens Getting Damaged By Winds? (by USAFHummer Feb 17 2007 in Tech Ops)


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User currently offlineSrbmod From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 7, posted (7 years 9 months 2 weeks 1 day 13 hours ago) and read 9207 times:

Quoting USAFHummer (Reply 6):

Actually, this thread was started over 6 hours prior to your thread in Tech/Ops.


User currently offlineUSAFHummer From United States of America, joined May 2000, 10685 posts, RR: 52
Reply 8, posted (7 years 9 months 2 weeks 1 day 13 hours ago) and read 9185 times:

Quoting Srbmod (Reply 7):

Yes, however the other thread also contains some other info of interest to the topic...



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User currently offlineAzncsa4qf744er From United States of America, joined Oct 2003, 695 posts, RR: 0
Reply 9, posted (7 years 9 months 2 weeks 1 day 12 hours ago) and read 8517 times:

There was a mixture of CR2, CR7, and EMB’s. One of the CR7 had all four windshields cracks.

User currently offlineDAYflyer From United States of America, joined Sep 2004, 3807 posts, RR: 3
Reply 10, posted (7 years 9 months 2 weeks 1 day 11 hours ago) and read 7890 times:

I once had a Ford Crown Victoria with an electricly defrosted windshield. One winter day the system went bonkers (too high voltage) and it overheated the windshiend and broke it. Wonder if that same scenario is possible here??


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User currently offlineEI321 From Iraq, joined Jul 2009, 0 posts, RR: 0
Reply 11, posted (7 years 9 months 2 weeks 1 day 10 hours ago) and read 7639 times:

Wow this sounds really strange!

User currently offlineFlyf15 From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 12, posted (7 years 9 months 2 weeks 1 day 10 hours ago) and read 7575 times:

Quoting DAYflyer (Reply 10):
I once had a Ford Crown Victoria with an electricly defrosted windshield. One winter day the system went bonkers (too high voltage) and it overheated the windshiend and broke it. Wonder if that same scenario is possible here??

You know, the heaters in cockpit windshields do occasionally crap out and cause the window to shatter, but 13 at one airport in one day is not normal. Something else is the cause of this....

I'm also not buying the "wind" explaination, these windshields experience wind of 600mph in cruise and are nowhere near their failure point. Unless the wind on the ground had airborne debris in it...


User currently offlineMkorpal From United States of America, joined Aug 2005, 90 posts, RR: 2
Reply 13, posted (7 years 9 months 2 weeks 1 day 10 hours ago) and read 7414 times:

It's almost certainly wind with debris. Whenever we have large snowstorms, they put down a lot of gravel to help break up ice. And since we have not had a large wind event since the blizzards of December, it's conceivable that the gravel was still on the ground. That is most likely the cause of the cracked windshields. What is surprising to me is the fact that no mainline aircraft had this problem. I wonder if the crj/emb's windshields are weaker/thiner than those found on larger aircraft.

User currently offlineATCme From United States of America, joined Dec 2005, 304 posts, RR: 0
Reply 14, posted (7 years 9 months 2 weeks 1 day 9 hours ago) and read 7072 times:

Quoting Mkorpal (Reply 13):
What is surprising to me is the fact that no mainline aircraft had this problem. I wonder if the crj/emb's windshields are weaker/thiner than those found on larger aircraft.

Would you consider 4 Frontier jets mainline?
How much difference in height is there between a CRJ and say an A320? Could that be part of it?

Anyway, this seems really odd, must have been something to do with the wind and debris or something...

ATCme spin 



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User currently offlineFlyf15 From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 15, posted (7 years 9 months 2 weeks 1 day 9 hours ago) and read 7059 times:

Quoting Mkorpal (Reply 13):
I wonder if the crj/emb's windshields are weaker/thiner than those found on larger aircraft.

Can't say I know much about this, but I do know that our (CRJ) windshields are 3 panes of glass. MD-11s have 7 panes.


User currently offlineMkorpal From United States of America, joined Aug 2005, 90 posts, RR: 2
Reply 16, posted (7 years 9 months 2 weeks 1 day 9 hours ago) and read 7007 times:

Quoting ATCme (Reply 14):
Would you consider 4 Frontier jets mainline?

A few posts above mentioned it was a mix of CR2, CR7, and EMB's. So, I figured the frontier jets were CR7's.


User currently offlineGoldenshield From United States of America, joined Jan 2001, 6101 posts, RR: 14
Reply 17, posted (7 years 9 months 2 weeks 1 day 9 hours ago) and read 6939 times:

From what I understand, and what wasn't mentioned in that news report, was that not only were the SkyWest and Frontier birds cracked, but also a few Delta and a handful of others. The only reason I can think that they didn't get included on the report was because they only had 1-2 aircraft there during that period of time, and wasn't nearly as big a deal to them.

Also, this was not only occurring on the ground, but also in the air.

At the time this was happening, a cold front was approaching the area, with the jet stream sitting right on top of it. The jet stream slowed down the front's ground speed, which caused the prolonged gusty winds, coupled with the lifting action of the front, which most likely took debris of some sort into the atmosphere with it.



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User currently offline707lvr From United States of America, joined Jun 2004, 585 posts, RR: 2
Reply 18, posted (7 years 9 months 2 weeks 1 day 4 hours ago) and read 5550 times:

This story can't be not done yet. It sounds as if "whatever" managed to damage only windshields of small jets. No automobiles, service vehicles, terminal windows? No dings on any metal, no dents? Does not add up. Something else has to be going on.

User currently offlineMkorpal From United States of America, joined Aug 2005, 90 posts, RR: 2
Reply 19, posted (7 years 9 months 2 weeks 1 day 4 hours ago) and read 5504 times:

I wonder, is it actually possible for a sudden gust of wind to actually break windows by it's self. I's it possible for a wind gust of 80 mph to actually break glass. I would think that if the wind speed goes from 0 to 80 in a split second, it could have enough force to break the glass.

User currently offlineFlyorski From United States of America, joined Dec 2004, 996 posts, RR: 1
Reply 20, posted (7 years 9 months 2 weeks 1 day 3 hours ago) and read 5149 times:

Something does not add up. I do not think that the cockpit windows could be damaged and not the rest of the terminal.


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User currently offlineEnviroTO From Canada, joined Aug 2004, 829 posts, RR: 0
Reply 21, posted (7 years 9 months 2 weeks 1 day 2 hours ago) and read 5033 times:

What was the weather conditions at the time? Any hail or rapid changes in temperature?

User currently offlineHmmmm... From Canada, joined May 1999, 2109 posts, RR: 5
Reply 22, posted (7 years 9 months 2 weeks 21 hours ago) and read 4856 times:

Simply debris in the wind is not the culprit. If that were the case, the ground vehicles and terminal windows would have cracked windows, too. They crack much easier than aircraft windows. Yet, no report of that. Two of the airplanes had their windows crack in flight. An electrical defroster problem could explain one jet with a cracked window, but not 13.

Time to call in Scully and Mulder



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User currently offlineDAYflyer From United States of America, joined Sep 2004, 3807 posts, RR: 3
Reply 23, posted (7 years 9 months 2 weeks 20 hours ago) and read 4794 times:

Quoting Flyorski (Reply 20):
Something does not add up.

I agree. The whole thing is just plane suspicious. There are too many aircraft involved. Perhaps there was some vandalism going on here...



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User currently offlineRoseFlyer From United States of America, joined Feb 2004, 9706 posts, RR: 52
Reply 24, posted (7 years 9 months 2 weeks 19 hours ago) and read 4694 times:

Crazy things can happen. It's not impossible for something that caused resonance in the mounting system and caused windows to break. It's highly unlikely, but not unprecedented. There once was a prop plane by lockhheed I think that had the engines create a vibration that was at the natural frequency of the wing, and then end result was it caused the wings to fall off even though they were mounted perfectly well. A little metal piece added to the wing fixed the problem. Another case where something crazy happend was with the fatigue cracks in the WWII liberty ships. If something small as a hammer was dropped in a certain part of the deck of the ship, the whole ship would break in half.

If these were all the same type of plane, then something weird could have happened. Lots of stuff is possible. But in the end I think there is just some missing information.

Quoting Mkorpal (Reply 19):
I wonder, is it actually possible for a sudden gust of wind to actually break windows by it's self. I's it possible for a wind gust of 80 mph to actually break glass. I would think that if the wind speed goes from 0 to 80 in a split second, it could have enough force to break the glass.

I seriously doubt that. Airplane windows handle the force of flying at 600mph, so a gust probably would not do it. Even if it was modelled as an impact force and a sudden gust, then I doubt it is possible.



If you have never designed an airplane part before, let the real designers do the work!
25 Toering : Some of the aircraft were in flight when the cracks happened (According to the AP) Does anyone check the side windows for cracks? Could it be the tork
26 Hmmmm... : They had some problems with cracks in the welds, and some ships were lost at sea, but not because anybody dropped a hammer. lol. At altitude, the win
27 Beefstew25 : Any update on this? Is terrorism a concern here?
28 Philb : A possible cause could be any gravel hiitting the windscreens on the ground could cause minute cracking of the glass and alter the tension of the surf
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