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CM To Brazil?  
User currently offline2travel2know From Panama, joined Apr 2005, 3580 posts, RR: 4
Posted (7 years 2 months 19 hours ago) and read 2997 times:

Yesterday it was annonced that Brazilian authorities are to require Yellowfever Certificate to all passengers arriving Brazil with CM. Until now it was required only for passengers travelling between Panama and Brazil.
Here is the link to CM website
IMHO, (1) what a way for Brazil to show up their concern about how many Brazilians are choosing to fly CM now and (2) that's how Brazil pays a company which is buying Embraer Jets.


I don't work for COPA Airlines!
31 replies: All unread, showing first 25:
 
User currently offlineLipeGIG From Brazil, joined May 2005, 11365 posts, RR: 59
Reply 1, posted (7 years 2 months 11 hours ago) and read 2903 times:
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Quoting 2travel2know (Thread starter):
IMHO, (1) what a way for Brazil to show up their concern about how many Brazilians are choosing to fly CM now and (2) that's how Brazil pays a company which is buying Embraer Jets.

In fact Brazil is just following the international good practice. Panama also requires the Yellow-fever certification from Brazilians, and Panama is also considered by World Healthy Organization as an endemic country for Yellow-fever. This is not against CM or Panama as Avianca, Varig, LAN Peru, TACA and others face the same restriction (i.e. need to present a certification).

Felipe



New York + Rio de Janeiro = One of the best combinations !
User currently offlineLuisca From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 2, posted (7 years 2 months 10 hours ago) and read 2887 times:

Quoting LipeGIG (Reply 1):
In fact Brazil is just following the international good practice. Panama also requires the Yellow-fever certification from Brazilians, and Panama is also considered by World Healthy Organization as an endemic country for Yellow-fever. This is not against CM or Panama as Avianca, Varig, LAN Peru, TACA and others face the same restriction (i.e. need to present a certification).

Bullshit, I lived in Panama 16 years and I have never even heard of anyone getting Yellow fever in the metropolitan area, even in the interior, the only places were it happens is in the indigenous communities in the deep jungle.

This is clearly a protectionist measure from Brazil, In any case require it for countries that have endemic yellow fever, but not for connecting passengers. 1 hour at air conditioned metropolitan modern PTY is not gonna give you yellow fever.

This stupid protectionism is one of the things I hate about Latin America. Way to pay the airline who has committed to up to 50 of your countries flagship aircraft.


User currently offline2travel2know From Panama, joined Apr 2005, 3580 posts, RR: 4
Reply 3, posted (7 years 2 months 10 hours ago) and read 2866 times:

Quoting Luisca (Reply 2):
This stupid protectionism is one of the things I hate about Latin America. Way to pay the airline who has committed to up to 50 of your countries flagship aircraft.

These are the times I wonder where are those #%^$@ CM B737-600 !!
If I'm not mistaken, when Brazilians fly to/from MAO or airports in those 5 northwestern Brazilian states, passengers are required to show a Yellowfever vaccination certificate. If so I could only understand the need for a certificate for those travelling to/from MAO and not those to/from GRU/GIG.
Now I would like to know if JJ BEL/MAO-MIA passengers are forced to have a Yellowfever Vaccine Certificate. I'm pretty sure they're not even if both MAO and BEL are more of a jungle area than PTY.



I don't work for COPA Airlines!
User currently offlineLipeGIG From Brazil, joined May 2005, 11365 posts, RR: 59
Reply 4, posted (7 years 2 months 10 hours ago) and read 2862 times:
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Quoting Luisca (Reply 2):
This is clearly a protectionist measure from Brazil, In any case require it for countries that have endemic yellow fever, but not for connecting passengers. 1 hour at air conditioned metropolitan modern PTY is not gonna give you yellow fever.

Panama requested the certification before Brazil , what's the point ?

Quoting 2travel2know (Thread starter):
(1) what a way for Brazil to show up their concern about how many Brazilians are choosing to fly CM now

Just to let you know, Brazilian government just approved CM request for 2 more frequencies and effective July 20, PTY-GIG will become a daily flight.

Quoting Luisca (Reply 2):
Bullshit, I lived in Panama 16 years and I have never even heard of anyone getting Yellow fever in the metropolitan area, even in the interior, the only places were it happens is in the indigenous communities in the deep jungle

Same for Brazil... only in areas of the Amazon Rain Forest.

Felipe



New York + Rio de Janeiro = One of the best combinations !
User currently offline2travel2know From Panama, joined Apr 2005, 3580 posts, RR: 4
Reply 5, posted (7 years 2 months 9 hours ago) and read 2850 times:

Quoting LipeGIG (Reply 4):
Just to let you know, Brazilian government just approved CM request for 2 more frequencies and effective July 20, PTY-GIG will become a daily flight.

Those frequencies were already approved when CM decided to start GIG, daily but 5 x week to start. I ask myself, Would Brazil approve CM flights to CNF, BSB, POA? Very difficult to believe.. FOR, REC, SSA maybe yes...
As for how CM is going to react to Brazil forcing all its GIG/MAO/GRU conecting passengers to have Yellow Fever Vaccine Certificate, my guess is that they would evaluate the situation for a couple of weeks and if they see the loads going down, maybe GRU would go back to once-daily.
CM would have to be very, very upset/mad to take this Brazilian government action as an excuse to "cold-down" its current relation with Embraer.



I don't work for COPA Airlines!
User currently offlineAces727 From Colombia, joined Oct 2005, 173 posts, RR: 2
Reply 6, posted (7 years 2 months 9 hours ago) and read 2837 times:

Simple, get your certificates when Copa is the only choice you got. or fly on another airline.

"This stupid protectionism is one of the things I hate about Latin America. Way to pay the airline who has committed to up to 50 of your countries flagship aircraft". If Copa doesn't buy them, some other airline will. Hey remember that Brazil imposes a visa requirements to Americans, and takes pictures of American Citizens upon arrival. Yet quite a big number of Americans keep paying the visa fee, and put through the Brazilian requirements. Brazil like any other nation can impose any law they want upon their territory.


User currently offlineLipeGIG From Brazil, joined May 2005, 11365 posts, RR: 59
Reply 7, posted (7 years 2 months 9 hours ago) and read 2825 times:
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Quoting Aces727 (Reply 6):
Hey remember that Brazil imposes a visa requirements to Americans, and takes pictures of American Citizens upon arrival

Aces, it's not necessary any more the picture and/or the finger printer id.

Quoting 2travel2know (Reply 5):
Those frequencies were already approved when CM decided to start GIG, daily but 5 x week to start. I ask myself, Would Brazil approve CM flights to CNF, BSB, POA?

ANAC shows just 26 weekly flights, it's a little complicate to understand because they reduced MAO to just 4x weekly IIRC. Now they could fly up to 28 weekly flights or 4 daily.
Concerning to CNF, BSB, POA, FOR, SSA and REC, in my opinion, CM could every year take advantage of 1 or 2 new destinations beginning with BSB and one of the northeast cities. BSB is in target of a major plan to be announced soon to provide the Federal District with more flights to South America countries.

Felipe



New York + Rio de Janeiro = One of the best combinations !
User currently offlineIncitatus From Brazil, joined Feb 2005, 3964 posts, RR: 13
Reply 8, posted (7 years 2 months 8 hours ago) and read 2807 times:

Quoting Luisca (Reply 2):
This stupid protectionism is one of the things I hate about Latin America. Way to pay the airline who has committed to up to 50 of your countries flagship aircraft.

Yes I hate it too. Isn' t it great to know that protectionism is only restricted to Latin America? There is none in North America, Asia, Europe and Africa. And yes, I agree, Brazil should place commercial consideration above public health matters.  Wink


User currently offlineAces727 From Colombia, joined Oct 2005, 173 posts, RR: 2
Reply 9, posted (7 years 2 months 8 hours ago) and read 2807 times:

LipeGIG, thanks for the info. I went to Brazil 2 years ago (MIA-GRU-GIG) on Varig, On the GRU - GIG leg there were Lot of Europeans and Americans, I went in with my Colombian passport so I did not have to present a visa or fingerprinting etc... Americans citizens did have to take pictures and go through the finger printing. My point was that Brazil was requiring Americans to pay $100 for a visa and still lots of Americans were visiting Brazil.

I got to say that Rio de Janeiro is one of the most beautiful cities I have ever visited.


User currently offlineSOUTHAMERICA From Colombia, joined Dec 2003, 2496 posts, RR: 10
Reply 10, posted (7 years 2 months 8 hours ago) and read 2802 times:

Quoting Luisca (Reply 2):
Bullshit, I lived in Panama 16 years and I have never even heard of anyone getting Yellow fever in the metropolitan area, even in the interior, the only places were it happens is in the indigenous communities in the deep jungle.

No, the yellow fever virus has both a rural cycle, and an urban cycle, and can be easily trasmitted by several mosquito species from urban areas. Wether you've seen it or not, it can happen.

Now, I do fully agree with you that it is plain ridiculous to ask for connecting passengers to have such certificate.


Quoting Luisca (Reply 2):
Way to pay the airline who has committed to up to 50 of your countries flagship aircraft.

Ha! Copa is committed to the money they earn. The commitment disappears when profits disappear.


SA.


User currently offline2travel2know From Panama, joined Apr 2005, 3580 posts, RR: 4
Reply 11, posted (7 years 2 months 8 hours ago) and read 2798 times:

Quoting LipeGIG (Reply 7):
CM could every year take advantage of 1 or 2 new destinations beginning with BSB and one of the northeast cities. BSB is in target of a major plan to be announced soon to provide the Federal District with more flights to South America countries.

I agree, but for BSB, CM Business class cabin would be too small; all those Brazilian Senators, Ministers, Government officials plus the international diplomats..
As for a possible CM destination in Northeastern Brazil, SSA is attractive, but REC is in an area of Brazil where more people live around than around SSA.

Well if CO doesn't want to serve LAD, CO could codeshare w/CO to fly PTY-REC-LAD !  crazy 



I don't work for COPA Airlines!
User currently offlineLipeGIG From Brazil, joined May 2005, 11365 posts, RR: 59
Reply 12, posted (7 years 2 months 7 hours ago) and read 2774 times:
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Quoting Aces727 (Reply 9):
My point was that Brazil was requiring Americans to pay $100 for a visa and still lots of Americans were visiting Brazil.

I get your point. And the number should be even higher with more flights to Rio and Northeast. I arrived this Saturday from JFK and on my flight GRU-GIG i noticed some americans going to REC !
US Brazilian embassy published last week that Brazilians looking for a Visa grows more than 50% over 2005 numbers. I don't have info on americans growth, but seems to be also huge.

Quoting 2travel2know (Reply 11):
I agree, but for BSB, CM Business class cabin would be too small; all those Brazilian Senators, Ministers, Government officials plus the international diplomats..

Good for CM, overbooking on C is the dream of many airlines. IIRC Brazilian Senators are not authorized to travel on C if the government pays the ticket.
Brazilian political rules:
F - President & Family, VP & spouse, Senate President, Congress President, Supreme Court President, Petrobras CEO, Petrobras Directors, Central Bank President, BB CEO, CEF CEO, Eletrobras CEO
C - Ministers of State, Supreme Court Judges, Other major state-owned companies CEO and directors, Executive Managers - Petrobras, Federal Police Head, Central Bank Directors, Banco do Brasil (BB) Directors, CEF Directors
Y - Senators, Congressman's, All the other

Quoting Aces727 (Reply 9):
I got to say that Rio de Janeiro is one of the most beautiful cities I have ever visited.

I'm suspect to talk about Rio. But nowadays i should say that i'm very happy working in New York, visiting often London and always going to enjoy the sun in Rio when it's possible. Thanks for the nice words.

Felipe



New York + Rio de Janeiro = One of the best combinations !
User currently offlineNeo From Brazil, joined Jan 2001, 671 posts, RR: 6
Reply 13, posted (7 years 2 months 7 hours ago) and read 2761 times:

Quoting Luisca (Reply 2):
Bullshit, I lived in Panama 16 years and I have never even heard of anyone getting Yellow fever in the metropolitan area, even in the interior, the only places were it happens is in the indigenous communities in the deep jungle.

This is clearly a protectionist measure from Brazil, In any case require it for countries that have endemic yellow fever, but not for connecting passengers. 1 hour at air conditioned metropolitan modern PTY is not gonna give you yellow fever.

This stupid protectionism is one of the things I hate about Latin America. Way to pay the airline who has committed to up to 50 of your countries flagship aircraft.



Quoting 2travel2know (Reply 3):
These are the times I wonder where are those #%^$@ CM B737-600 !!
If I'm not mistaken, when Brazilians fly to/from MAO or airports in those 5 northwestern Brazilian states, passengers are required to show a Yellowfever vaccination certificate. If so I could only understand the need for a certificate for those travelling to/from MAO and not those to/from GRU/GIG.
Now I would like to know if JJ BEL/MAO-MIA passengers are forced to have a Yellowfever Vaccine Certificate. I'm pretty sure they're not even if both MAO and BEL are more of a jungle area than PTY.

Get a grip alright!!! You are trying to make it bigger deal than it really is... This is got nothing to do with CM, it is a diplomatic decision and as Lipe said Panama took it even before Brazil did.. so what the fuss all about???

Rgs,

Neo


User currently offline2travel2know From Panama, joined Apr 2005, 3580 posts, RR: 4
Reply 14, posted (7 years 2 months 6 hours ago) and read 2741 times:

Quoting Neo (Reply 13):
This is got nothing to do with CM, it is a diplomatic decision and as Lipe said Panama took it even before Brazil did.. so what the fuss all about???

All the fuss is about those CM connecting passengers to/from Brazil @ CM's PTY hub that now will require Yellow Fever Vaccination Certificates just for flying CM via PTY, regardless if they come from countries not affected by that disease.
That diplomatic (rather said, health) decision which Panamá supposedly took before Brazil, had nothing to do with demanding Yellow Fever Vaccination Certificates for in-transit passengers from non-infected countries.
Again, Yellow Fever Vaccination Certificate for all will do make all the sense for MAO, but for GIG and GRU!? - It's plain ridiculous and mean from the Brazilian International Health Authorities.

Now, Would a Brazilian forum member (or someoneelse) answer me if those passengers flying BEL/MAO-MIA or v.v. with JJ are required to have those certificates too?



I don't work for COPA Airlines!
User currently offlinePPVRA From Brazil, joined Nov 2004, 8874 posts, RR: 40
Reply 15, posted (7 years 1 month 4 weeks 1 day 12 hours ago) and read 2632 times:

So we have an example of a badly thought out regulation . . . not anything new. But please, this has ZERO to do with CM. CM's presence in Brazil is hardly anything significant.


"If goods do not cross borders, soldiers will" - Frederic Bastiat
User currently offlineAF086 From France, joined Jan 2007, 1049 posts, RR: 9
Reply 16, posted (7 years 1 month 4 weeks 1 day 12 hours ago) and read 2620 times:

Quoting PPVRA (Reply 15):
CM's presence in Brazil is hardly anything significant.

I disagree. I think that 14x weekly to GRU + 5x weekly to GIG (7x eff 20JUL) and 4x weekly to MAO is at least significant.



Please insert a "smart" joke here.
User currently offlineLuisca From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 17, posted (7 years 1 month 4 weeks 1 day 11 hours ago) and read 2594 times:

Just to remind you that Yellow fever was eradicated from the Panama-Colon metropolitan area more than 100 years ago.

User currently offline2travel2know From Panama, joined Apr 2005, 3580 posts, RR: 4
Reply 18, posted (7 years 1 month 4 weeks 1 day 11 hours ago) and read 2580 times:

Quoting PPVRA (Reply 15):
But please, this has ZERO to do with CM. CM's presence in Brazil is hardly anything significant.

Outside of the airlines from Brazil neighbouring + Mercosur countries, which is the Latinamerican airline currently offering the most flights to Brazil?.
The problem is that for the average Brazilian traveller, CM is nearly unknown.
Maybe CM has not been as agressive in their marketing overthere as they should.
But still nowadays, in Brazil people think that they have to fly via MIA if their destination is Centralamerica or the Caribbean, or that the only way to fly to other major Colombian cities is via BOG, or that the only way to fly between MAO and LIM/EZE/SCL is via GRU.
CM offers twice daily GRU<>MEX, BOG, CCS, LIM, HAV, SDQ, which Brazilian or non-Brazilian airline offers that?
If a businessperson whats frequencies between GRU/GIG and Latinamerica (except Chile, Bolivia, Argentina, Uruguay, Paraguay, which would make no sense via PTY or aren't flown by CM) what is the option?
What's going to happen the day CM starts BSB?

I would dare to say that for JJ and G3, CM may be looked as a threat.



I don't work for COPA Airlines!
User currently offlineLipeGIG From Brazil, joined May 2005, 11365 posts, RR: 59
Reply 19, posted (7 years 1 month 4 weeks 1 day 8 hours ago) and read 2526 times:
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Quoting 2travel2know (Reply 18):
The problem is that for the average Brazilian traveller, CM is nearly unknown.

Agree but just because they do not advertise so much as other airlines. Also, their departures from Brazil are far from be comfortable (mostly cities does not keep a good connection with CM network) and this is because of their Hub banks at PTY.

Also, trade/business between Brazil and countries like Panama, El Salvador, Ecuador, Nicaragua, some others including the Caribbean is not so huge, and it's something with more room to grow during the next 5 years.

Felipe



New York + Rio de Janeiro = One of the best combinations !
User currently offlineHardiwv From Brazil, joined Oct 2004, 8780 posts, RR: 50
Reply 20, posted (7 years 1 month 4 weeks 1 day ago) and read 2485 times:

Quoting LipeGIG (Reply 1):
Panama is also considered by World Healthy Organization as an endemic country for Yellow-fever

Correction: World Health Organization (WHO), based in Geneva.

Quoting LipeGIG (Reply 1):
In fact Brazil is just following the international good practice

Correct. This is international practice. In fact, Brazil just started to request yellow fever certificate from pax connecting in LIM with LA.

Can be consider this a protectionist measure? Anyway, once a pax has yellow fever certificate, it is valid for 10 years.

Quoting Luisca (Reply 2):
Bullshit, I lived in Panama 16 years and I have never even heard of anyone getting Yellow fever

The measure is a requirement by an international body, the WHO.

Quoting LipeGIG (Reply 4):
Just to let you know, Brazilian government just approved CM request for 2 more frequencies and effective July 20, PTY-GIG will become a daily flight.

Thanks for the news.

Quoting SOUTHAMERICA (Reply 10):
No, the yellow fever virus has both a rural cycle, and an urban cycle, and can be easily trasmitted by several mosquito species from urban areas. Wether you've seen it or not, it can happen.

Correct.

Rgs,


User currently offlineLipeGIG From Brazil, joined May 2005, 11365 posts, RR: 59
Reply 21, posted (7 years 1 month 4 weeks 15 hours ago) and read 2421 times:
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Another change on PTY-GIG flight:

Effective June 20, the flight will depart earlier from PTY, and will remain on ground at GIG during almost 6 hours.

CM873 - PTY 1148 GIG 2055 - 73G

With this new timetable, CM takes a strong advantage with lots of connecting flights departing around 2200 from GIG, as well as the flight will be now better for some destinations without non-stop link to Rio.

Felipe



New York + Rio de Janeiro = One of the best combinations !
User currently offline2travel2know From Panama, joined Apr 2005, 3580 posts, RR: 4
Reply 22, posted (7 years 1 month 4 weeks 14 hours ago) and read 2408 times:

Quoting LipeGIG (Reply 21):
With this new timetable, CM takes a strong advantage with lots of connecting flights departing around 2200 from GIG, as well as the flight will be now better for some destinations without non-stop link to Rio.

IMHO it's a bad move, there are more flights departing GIG at 0600h than at 2200h and those 6 hours that now a CM B737-700 will spend in GIG could be used to fly that same aircraft somewhere in the Caribbean/Centralamerica.



I don't work for COPA Airlines!
User currently offline2travel2know From Panama, joined Apr 2005, 3580 posts, RR: 4
Reply 23, posted (7 years 1 month 3 weeks 6 days 16 hours ago) and read 2338 times:

Quoting Luisca (Reply 17):
Just to remind you that Yellow fever was eradicated from the Panama-Colon metropolitan area more than 100 years ago.

Yes, and I totally forgot that it was here in Panama where it was discovered how Yellow Fever and Malaria were transmitted.



I don't work for COPA Airlines!
User currently offlineLipeGIG From Brazil, joined May 2005, 11365 posts, RR: 59
Reply 24, posted (7 years 1 month 3 weeks 6 days 15 hours ago) and read 2317 times:
AIRLINERS.NET CREW
FORUM MODERATOR

Quoting 2travel2know (Reply 22):
IMHO it's a bad move, there are more flights departing GIG at 0600h than at 2200h and those 6 hours that now a CM B737-700 will spend in GIG could be used to fly that same aircraft somewhere in the Caribbean/Centralamerica.

Seems that the change has been requested by CM Rio because it's possible to reach faster BSB, VIX, CNF, SSA, REC among some others. But for sure their main focus is O&D Rio.

Felipe



New York + Rio de Janeiro = One of the best combinations !
25 2travel2know : Whenever CM flies to BSB, I'm sure CNF, SSA, REC will get good connections.
26 Aces727 : Copa offers excellent connections in latin america, no doubt about it, for business people that is excellent, they also offer nice service and new pla
27 LipeGIG : I will try to find a history about a jornalist that need to travel from BSB to SSA... thru CGH ! This is a picture of Brazilian civil aviation system
28 Hardiwv : Lipe you have to keep in mind that airports are all about "connections". I am sure the percentage of pax in AMS is about 20% O&D and 80% connection,
29 LipeGIG : Hardi, agree with your comment, but please note that AMS, CDG, FRA are really hubs and BSB is just a connecting airport. You have 1 or 2 flights a da
30 2travel2know : Same applies for JFK arrival/departure
31 BSBIsland : Sorry to disagree, but if you really needed the public heath sector like millions of people living in Brazil you you would have a different opinion.
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