Sponsor Message:
Civil Aviation Forum
My Starred Topics | Profile | New Topic | Forum Index | Help | Search 
Could US/Mesa Order The CRJ900X?  
User currently offlineCRJ900 From Norway, joined Jun 2004, 2191 posts, RR: 1
Posted (7 years 7 months 2 days 22 hours ago) and read 2772 times:
Support Airliners.net - become a First Class Member!

HP/Mesa "pioneered" two-class CRJ900 cabins with their 6F + 74Y back in 2003, but dropped the F seats as few actually paid for the seats but were mostly upgraded while Y was often overbooked (source: earlier threads about Mesa's CRJ900).

Now, the competition is introducing F + Y cabin concepts on their CR7 and CR9 (UAXplus, DL Conn, NWA) so perhaps it is time for US/Mesa to reintroduce F seats, but this time on the CRJ900X, as the scope clause allow 90 seats the CR9X can have 6F + 84Y which will allow current CR9 Y bookings to remain at that level plus having extra room for "discerning" travellers.

Any chance that will happen?


Come, fly the prevailing winds with me
22 replies: All unread, jump to last
 
User currently offlineERJ170 From United States of America, joined Apr 2004, 6771 posts, RR: 17
Reply 1, posted (7 years 7 months 2 days 21 hours ago) and read 2754 times:

I am thinking MESA will only be around US as long as their current contract with HP allows. After that, they will probably be out the door.

A better question should be.. would PSA be able to get the CR9 for US... and I would probably say "NO" since the E90 is mainline, the CR9 would have to be mainline also..

But that's just my opinion...



Aiming High and going far..
User currently offlineJdwfloyd From United States of America, joined Feb 2005, 837 posts, RR: 4
Reply 2, posted (7 years 7 months 2 days 20 hours ago) and read 2670 times:

Doug Parker and team are counting down the minutes left on the Mesa contract. Mesa will not even have time put there hat on before they are kicked out the door.


As for the CR9, PSA had their chance to get the A./C but the pilots voted it down. Granted they voted it down because the company did not want to pay them anymore than what the got for flying the 700. I believe that US canceled their plans to get the 900 shortly after that. With the E175 coming online with RW, there maybe no need to get the 900.

If US were to get more CR90s they would be a express A/C still. They have the same number of seats as the E175. Also if more were to come online they would probably not have anything but coach class. The smallest A/C in US's fleet with F class will be the E190.


User currently offlineFlyf15 From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 3, posted (7 years 7 months 2 days 20 hours ago) and read 2658 times:

I can't believe people even have to discuss if a plane that seats almost 100 people, including a first class, and is capable of 5 hour legs should be flown by a regional carrier or not. At this point, its not a regional airplane, it is simply contracting out to the lowest bidder. And with Mesa, we've seen what taking it out of house and having the lowest bidder does to your customers.

User currently offlineApodino From United States of America, joined Apr 2005, 4277 posts, RR: 6
Reply 4, posted (7 years 7 months 2 days 9 hours ago) and read 2523 times:

The thing that worries me is that after their contract is up, Johnny O can go to US and tell them "We are the number one on time airline in PHX, even better than mainline and southwest, and our controllable completion is 99 Percent", based on a recent press release. If they are cheap and they still have those types of numbers, how can you justify getting rid of them to the shareholders?

Now I am not defending Mesa at all, and I think they do suck, but if what has been reported is true, it will be very hard to show them the door.

Now if Mesa does lose the 900s look for AIr Wisconsin to take over the flying. They already have the 200, the capacity is very similar to 146's that used to be flown for United (Some of those were even 100 seats, and I think United's scope clause in the pilots contract only allows Air Wisky to fly planes of that size for United but thats a different thread), US has told ZW that any flying with larger aircraft would replace existing 200 which would mean they would have to find a new home for the 200's not an easy thing as expressjet is learning and as independence air learned. But since this would be the existing flying, and not any flying in the east market, I would think this would be new flying.

But after the Delta problems with Comair a few years ago, I am surprised that US hasn't diversified PHX at all, and on a related note, I am suprised UA hasn't diversified either LAX or SFO, and truthfully I don't feel DL is that diversified in SLC when it comes to regional affiliates.


User currently offlineHPLASOps From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 5, posted (7 years 7 months 2 days 9 hours ago) and read 2506 times:

Quoting Apodino (Reply 4):
If they are cheap and they still have those types of numbers, how can you justify getting rid of them to the shareholders?

If you can measurably trace a lost of customer revenue due to dissatisfaction with the regional carrier product that, in turn, hurts the main company, I can clearly see that as justification to get rid of them. On time performance and completion percentage are nice stats that YV can use to state their case, but that's not the end all reason to keep them. One in a while, the Board of Directors actually looks beyond the bottom line and thinks about what is right for everyone.


User currently offlineFlyboy80 From United States of America, joined Jul 2001, 1878 posts, RR: 3
Reply 6, posted (7 years 7 months 2 days 9 hours ago) and read 2496 times:

Quoting Apodino (Reply 4):
But after the Delta problems with Comair a few years ago, I am surprised that US hasn't diversified PHX at all, and on a related note, I am surprised UA hasn't diversified either LAX or SFO, and truthfully I don't feel DL is that diversified in SLC when it comes to regional affiliates.

Great, Absolutely, I recently posted about the situation with OO owning the west...feel free to check it out



On another note, I used to be a flight attendant with mesa, and I will say that I can't wait for the company to go. They are a mess, they have truly screwed the industry up in certain ways. John takes it way to far! I remembered working there and how at night, day..etc (all the time) the planes were rarely cleaned. They were always dirty, I began to believe that the planes were so dirty that it was possibly affecting my health. In addition we were never supervised, often a line F/A with four months of seniority mise well be the director of in-flight. Honestly that part was kind of nice, seeing as most of the HP passengers were in my opinion, trash, and after searching online for sixteen hours to find a $97 fare on AWA PHX-SAN expect first class treatment, PLEASE!

Back to the topic, as far as 90 seat flying goes with the stretch 900 concept, I doubt it. Mesa is historically rather aggressive with its aircraft orders, and as far as increasing their 86 seat flying for US in the next couple of years, I certainly see that, for whatever good it will be, I don't know. But 90 seats is out of the question. Besides, as previously stated, the 175 is 86 seats, and is the personal favourite of US. Hence we see the 99seat EMBs comming online with them as well at mainline. When I left mesa I was PHX based, and every month more and more 86 seaters were being shipped out to CLT, and there was lots of speculation of a base opening in LGA, and DCA...As for what becomes of that I don't know...

PS...I don't care where they go, Afghanistan, Ecuador, CHINA, or somewhere even more pacific than hawaii...Get mesa out of here. They are terrible to their customers, and employees. I will say that most of the flaws are in management, mesa has a lot of hard working aviation professionals who deserve a lot more, I worked frequently with people from Reno Air, National (LAS), and Morris Air. Good people, I guess they do choose to work there, but its disgusting to watch what happens to them on a daily basis. I remember thinking to my self just the other day, doesn't united realize how bad they are pissing people off, especially their frequent flyer base by contracting mesa as a regional affiliate? I guess it doesn't really matter, the way I remember it is United is stuck with YV until the contract is up as long as they aren't in bankrupcey.
Sorry didn't mean to ramble on...but If you want email me I'm happy to say a LOT more! lol


User currently offlineHPRamper From United States of America, joined May 2005, 4058 posts, RR: 8
Reply 7, posted (7 years 7 months 2 days 7 hours ago) and read 2444 times:

Quoting Flyboy80 (Reply 6):
Get mesa out of here. They are terrible to their customers, and employees.

I don't know that Mesa treats customers badly, unless it's a result of operational problems. Any time I've flown Mesa (albeit only on HPX) the flights have been pleasant and the crews very nice and light-spirited. That said, the relationship between management and front-line employees leaves much to be desired from what I've heard. I would presume that everything about the airline would run much more smoothly if this relationship improved.


User currently offlineMaverick623 From United States of America, joined Nov 2006, 5650 posts, RR: 6
Reply 8, posted (7 years 7 months 2 days 6 hours ago) and read 2399 times:

Quoting HPRamper (Reply 7):
I don't know that Mesa treats customers badly, unless it's a result of operational problems. Any time I've flown Mesa (albeit only on HPX) the flights have been pleasant and the crews very nice and light-spirited. That said, the relationship between management and front-line employees leaves much to be desired from what I've heard. I would presume that everything about the airline would run much more smoothly if this relationship improved.

As a mainline HP employee who usually works with Mesa employees daily, I can concur on that statement. The management there is incredibly rude and unhelpful. In PHX right now, they are so short staffed that it is often a wait of 20-30 mins before their conx runners show up to a mainline flight to pick up their bags.

Their international operations are also seriously lacking in ramp service. Not the fault of the rampers, but a staffing problem. It got to the point where we would actually offload their airplanes for them, in order to get the bags down to customs and connect them in time. After their ramp MOD got wind of that, we got booted off and it's once again a 45 minute wait begin the offload of the flight from GDL.

Ultimately, the flights will go out on time, but the customer isn't gonna be happy when their bags don't make it to the downline station they fly to.



"PHX is Phoenix, PDX is the other city" -777Way
User currently offlineCRJ900 From Norway, joined Jun 2004, 2191 posts, RR: 1
Reply 9, posted (7 years 7 months 2 days 2 hours ago) and read 2364 times:
Support Airliners.net - become a First Class Member!

Quoting Flyboy80 (Reply 6):
Back to the topic, as far as 90 seat flying goes with the stretch 900 concept, I doubt it. Mesa is historically rather aggressive with its aircraft orders, and as far as increasing their 86 seat flying for US in the next couple of years, I certainly see that, for whatever good it will be, I don't know. But 90 seats is out of the question. Besides, as previously stated, the 175 is 86 seats, and is the personal favourite of US. Hence we see the 99seat EMBs comming online with them as well at mainline. When I left mesa I was PHX based, and every month more and more 86 seaters were being shipped out to CLT, and there was lots of speculation of a base opening in LGA, and DCA...As for what becomes of that I don't know...

My impression is that the E190 is achieveing its goal of being regarded as a mainline jet and hence carriers might fly it on more prestigious routes, charge pax a little more for the privilege of flying this bird, plus that carriers will need to charge more as the mainline costs are higher too...

Quoting Flyboy80 (Reply 6):
seeing as most of the HP passengers were in my opinion, trash, and after searching online for sixteen hours to find a $97 fare on AWA PHX-SAN expect first class treatment

... while the CRJ900X will be a great workhorse for low-yield routes where the operating costs are smaller as the aircraft fly for outsourced carriers where pay is lower.

Are the current Mesa CRJ900 fleet such a moneymaker for US that US is willing to keep them even if Mesa has "issues" that other posters mention here?



Come, fly the prevailing winds with me
User currently offlineCa2ohHP From United States of America, joined Sep 2005, 955 posts, RR: 1
Reply 10, posted (7 years 7 months 1 day 18 hours ago) and read 2283 times:

HP/US is only counting down the hours to see the CRJ-200's gone (I think a handful leave the west fleet this year). As long as YV is the cheapest bidder, YV will be around.

Quoting CRJ900 (Reply 9):
Are the current Mesa CRJ900 fleet such a moneymaker for US that US is willing to keep them even if Mesa has "issues" that other posters mention here?

Until US finds someone to operate them for the same cost as YV, they'll stick around. At YV rates, that thing is a cash-cow.


User currently offlineFCYTravis From United States of America, joined Sep 2005, 1191 posts, RR: 6
Reply 11, posted (7 years 7 months 1 day 16 hours ago) and read 2241 times:

Quoting Apodino (Reply 4):
I am surprised that US hasn't diversified PHX at all,

They can't. The contract with YV is exclusive.



USAir A321 service now departing for SFO with fuel stops in CAK, COS and RNO. Enjoy your flight.
User currently offlineCazito From Brazil, joined Apr 2000, 78 posts, RR: 0
Reply 12, posted (7 years 7 months 1 day 15 hours ago) and read 2228 times:

No, but they could order the CRJ-1000 though. Big grin

User currently offlineApodino From United States of America, joined Apr 2005, 4277 posts, RR: 6
Reply 13, posted (7 years 7 months 1 day 14 hours ago) and read 2197 times:

Quoting FCYTravis (Reply 11):
They can't. The contract with YV is exclusive.

I am a little confused. One, now that the airlines have merged, there is no way they can be the exclusive USAirways express carrier. So how can the contract be exclusive.

And why did the old America West sign such a bad contract in the first place?

And does anyone with either United or USAirways know what Mesa's definite intent to repurchase stats are as compared to similar express carriers?


User currently offlineCa2ohHP From United States of America, joined Sep 2005, 955 posts, RR: 1
Reply 14, posted (7 years 7 months 1 day 14 hours ago) and read 2186 times:

Quoting Apodino (Reply 13):
And why did the old America West sign such a bad contract in the first place?

Mesa bailed America West out of their first bankruptcy. Similar to ZW investing in the US/HP merger for guaranteed express flying.


User currently offlineFlyboy80 From United States of America, joined Jul 2001, 1878 posts, RR: 3
Reply 15, posted (7 years 7 months 1 day 12 hours ago) and read 2151 times:

Quoting CRJ900 (Reply 9):
My impression is that the E190 is achieving its goal of being regarded as a mainline jet and hence carriers might fly it on more prestigious routes, charge pax a little more for the privilege of flying this bird, plus that carriers will need to charge more as the mainline costs are higher too...

Well my impression is that US AC routings probably doesn't designate their equipment in terms of specific travelers(depending on how technical you want to get), seeing as when I was at mesa we ran the RJs into cities such as LGA, DCA etc where you end up having a lot of business travelers. If I was one of these people, I would certainly rather had an E jet compared to a CRJ900, hell, I'd rather a E jet even as a crew member if I'm stuck in that aft jumpseat wtih a 300lb'r in 23c. I really can't speak for US Airways, and by US Airways, I mean the real US Airways (East) not the new one which HP has done a great job of turning into a mess. Out on the west, HP puts a plane where they need it when its available on the mesa side, not sure about mainline. Those planes are in and out, and when something goes haywire, good luck! Mesa NEVER has spare equipment, you will never be in PHX and see one of the JETS (didn't say DASH) sitting around at 2 in the afternoon with the door closed. But according to mesa's current numbers out of PHX with ontime, and controllable, maybe they are getting things together, when my friend read me the company email, I thought it was a joke.

Quoting CRJ900 (Reply 9):
while the CRJ900X will be a great workhorse for low-yield routes where the operating costs are smaller as the aircraft fly for outsourced carriers where pay is lower.

Are the current Mesa CRJ900 fleet such a moneymaker for US that US is willing to keep them even if Mesa has "issues" that other posters mention here?

The 900s have ALWAYS been an HP thing. When we got those lawn darts, they were freedom because of the US Air scope clause, and all that garbage. We never did any marketing with them outside of our good relationship wtih Dougie P.  Wink And I assume thats the way its going to stay. Now as far as the 200s are concerned, well thats John at his finest, orchestrating a plan to take them to china, start a MDW based GO!...all kinds of stuff. I have no idea what he intends to do with them, point is that US Airways as the contractual right to reduce our flying slightly over the upcoming years, per year, and that will certainly be in relation to the 50 seaters. When the contract is up, and all is said and done, mesa won't be here like it is today, and the 900s, which I believe are leased from HP will go back to one of US's partner companies. We even were interested in the Q400 when I was there because of all the maintenance issues with the Q200s, but because John knows that in a few years United and US won't be paying him for prop service, they decided against it, and I'd tell you your crazy if John wanted to throw shots at RFPs for prop service, he's always been about the RJs.


User currently offlineATWZW170 From United States of America, joined Oct 2004, 904 posts, RR: 3
Reply 16, posted (7 years 7 months 1 day 11 hours ago) and read 2115 times:

Mesa had F class but they didn't do a very good job. Their FA's are not attentive, their offereings were not good. I don't see US allowing Mesa to order a larger plane to fly for them. Maybe in China. Honestly - I wish US would upgrade what it offeres to F class passengers - but Mesa shouldn't be part of it.


Success is getting what you want...happiness is liking what you get
User currently offlineFlyboy80 From United States of America, joined Jul 2001, 1878 posts, RR: 3
Reply 17, posted (7 years 7 months 1 day 9 hours ago) and read 2084 times:

Quoting ATWZW170 (Reply 16):
Mesa had F class but they didn't do a very good job. Their FA's are not attentive, their offereings were not good. I don't see US allowing Mesa to order a larger plane to fly for them. Maybe in China. Honestly - I wish US would upgrade what it offeres to F class passengers - but Mesa shouldn't be part of it.

No that was F8 that had first class, and Mesa still does have first class. Compared to most north american regional carriers, I think our first class offerings were on par. Wait wait, those United "ExPlus" snack boxes make such a difference... please I'd rather the snyder mini pretzels, or better yet whats left over of that sea gull that caught the horizontal stabalizer. Point is, the regionals don't control their first class product (for the few that have it) its controlled by the respective codeshare partner. At freedom, in first, we had limited things to work with. And for what they payed me, I wasn't going to wait hand and foot on a "flight fund" gold member who had nothing to comment on except for the fact that we were (apprently) in a regional, or otherwise described as "small" aircraft, nor did I care to converse about the airlines reasoning for operating that particular aircraft, I was there simply to pour a drink, and give a snack. Half the time the folks riding up in first on those flights were oversells from the back, or upgrades. Otherwise we would be empty. I always tried to be attentive when working first class however on the United side as I felt the passengers were slightly higher calibar in their standards, plus they tip. At HP in first class the jittery F/As usually aren't overly attentive, and quite honestly, I believe they are more concerned with how long their next turn is so they can calculate precisely how much time they will have to get from the arrival gate, to the smoking lounge, and back without delaying boarding more than five minutes.


User currently offlineCa2ohHP From United States of America, joined Sep 2005, 955 posts, RR: 1
Reply 18, posted (7 years 7 months 1 day 6 hours ago) and read 2035 times:

Quoting Flyboy80 (Reply 15):
But according to mesa's current numbers out of PHX with ontime, and controllable, maybe they are getting things together, when my friend read me the company email, I thought it was a joke.

What Mesa has been doing is subbing the CR9's with CRJ's....which usually end up broken anyways (or missing an engine)....sorry bad joke.

Quoting ATWZW170 (Reply 16):
I wish US would upgrade what it offeres to F class passengers - but Mesa shouldn't be part of it.

Funny how Mesa F class isn't good enough for US, but it is for UA?


User currently offlineFCYTravis From United States of America, joined Sep 2005, 1191 posts, RR: 6
Reply 19, posted (7 years 7 months 1 day 5 hours ago) and read 2021 times:

Quoting Apodino (Reply 13):
I am a little confused. One, now that the airlines have merged, there is no way they can be the exclusive USAirways express carrier. So how can the contract be exclusive.

Sorry, I was a little vague. YV has exclusive rights to fly as US Airways Express out of Phoenix and Las Vegas for the duration of their contract. So, US is stuck with Mesa for now.



USAir A321 service now departing for SFO with fuel stops in CAK, COS and RNO. Enjoy your flight.
User currently offlineATWZW170 From United States of America, joined Oct 2004, 904 posts, RR: 3
Reply 20, posted (7 years 7 months 1 day 1 hour ago) and read 2003 times:

Freedom, Mesa - all the same thing. Just another way from Jonny O to stick his employees.

The F class on the CRJ700 -- I've flown it a lot. What makes it not good is the fact that either you have liquor on or you don't --- and the FA's aren't apologetic about it at ll. You give a drink then are gone -- it's not attentive. US Airways has a bag product but they are at least attentive. That make all the difference and that is what the Mesa FA's who work F class don't understand.



Success is getting what you want...happiness is liking what you get
User currently offlineFlyboy80 From United States of America, joined Jul 2001, 1878 posts, RR: 3
Reply 21, posted (7 years 7 months 19 hours ago) and read 1944 times:

Quoting Ca2ohHP (Reply 18):

What Mesa has been doing is subbing the CR9's with CRJ's....which usually end up broken anyways (or missing an engine)....sorry bad joke.

You crack me up! Ha, I love it!

Quoting ATWZW170 (Reply 20):
Freedom, Mesa - all the same thing. Just another way from Jonny O to stick his employees.

The F class on the CRJ700 -- I've flown it a lot. What makes it not good is the fact that either you have liquor on or you don't --- and the FA's aren't apologetic about it at ll. You give a drink then are gone -- it's not attentive. US Airways has a bag product but they are at least attentive. That make all the difference and that is what the Mesa FA's who work F class don't understand.

This is because No one cares. If you ask me, its UNITED's fault. They contract YV for those flights, YV crews don't care about ANYTHING. Seat belts don't get crossed, stock is always out. When I worked there maybe one out of five CR7s went out of ORD with any water. It was common to not have cups or napkins. The company doesn't care, its the F/As problem at that point. What I can't stand is when a passenger feels they need to communicate their personal disgust with the product to the flight crew members, when they need to contact United so things change. Even though that IMO is highly unlikely. Hope I was never an F/A on your flight lol. Oh btw, you know what mesa does with those letters FFs send to UA about how rude the F/As were? They throw them away. I do hope to one day see UA contract flying go to all S5 and OO.


User currently offlineATWZW170 From United States of America, joined Oct 2004, 904 posts, RR: 3
Reply 22, posted (7 years 7 months 12 hours ago) and read 1897 times:

Gate Gourmet took over the catering after AWAC left ORD. Althought catering isn't perfec - it's not that bad. It's not United's fault that Mesa doesn't perform. If Mesa actually gave a darn about anything someone from Mesa would put pressure on United....Air Wisconsin did that -- we do that now with US Airways --- we don't take everything laying on our back asking for more. Again, Air Wisconsin is not perfect but we take more pride in our service then Mesa.

Anyway back to the topic - I certainly hope Mesa does not order the CRJ1000.



Success is getting what you want...happiness is liking what you get
Top Of Page
Forum Index

This topic is archived and can not be replied to any more.

Printer friendly format

Similar topics:More similar topics...
Would Any US Airline Order The A380? posted Sat Dec 23 2000 21:11:20 by Expex
Could US Utilize The A340 posted Thu Oct 12 2006 16:36:04 by Ophila
Could Delta Order The 737-700? posted Sat Sep 9 2006 01:22:28 by 1337Delta764
Could Ryanair Order The 737-700? posted Tue Jul 19 2005 14:39:27 by Gkirk
Who Will Be The 1st US Airline To Order The 7e7 posted Mon Jul 12 2004 20:31:31 by Njdevilsin03
Was Wolf's Airbus Order The Nail In US Coffin? posted Tue Apr 6 2004 19:32:30 by TOLtommy
Why Did US Order The A320's, Etc.? posted Sat Oct 6 2001 08:28:19 by YoungDon
Biggest Airlines In The US, In Order posted Thu Oct 26 2000 22:54:26 by Aio86
Biggest Airlines In The US, In Order posted Thu Oct 26 2000 22:54:24 by Aio86
US Replacement Order For 737 posted Wed Jan 31 2007 21:50:01 by Cltguy