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NZ To YVR (Part2)  
User currently offlineLegacyins From United States of America, joined Aug 2003, 2070 posts, RR: 0
Posted (7 years 6 months 1 week 6 days 8 hours ago) and read 4463 times:

With the recent discussion regarding NZ and Vancouver, the below article seems to give creidance to the notion of NZ sarting direct service this year.

http://www.stuff.co.nz/3966629a34.html


John@SFO
60 replies: All unread, showing first 25:
 
User currently offlineFlyjetstar From Australia, joined Feb 2006, 951 posts, RR: 0
Reply 1, posted (7 years 6 months 1 week 6 days 7 hours ago) and read 4425 times:

Wow an NZ thread getting a Part Two!

The article also notes that financials are due Feb 27 so I wonder if we have to wait until then and not Friday 23 as someone quoted on the previous therad.


User currently offlinePlanetime From Singapore, joined Mar 2006, 719 posts, RR: 0
Reply 2, posted (7 years 6 months 1 week 6 days 6 hours ago) and read 4389 times:

Sounds like it will be direct. Would make more sense to send it through SFO. I am sure it will not be a daily flight.

User currently offlineTG992 From New Zealand, joined Jan 2001, 2910 posts, RR: 10
Reply 3, posted (7 years 6 months 1 week 6 days 3 hours ago) and read 4299 times:

Quoting Planetime (Reply 2):
Would make more sense to send it through SFO

No, it would absolutely not. Ground handling charges, crew costs, the costs of operating a widebody on such a short route, the increased travel time putting off passengers, would mean it would be financial suicide, something clearly expressed by Air NZ internally. The only stop that would make sense to me would be NAN.



-
User currently offlinePlanetime From Singapore, joined Mar 2006, 719 posts, RR: 0
Reply 4, posted (7 years 6 months 1 week 6 days 3 hours ago) and read 4293 times:

Quoting TG992 (Reply 3):

is there enough of a market between AKL and YVR to have nonstop service. other than during some peak times? yes NAN would make sense.


User currently offlineDYK From Canada, joined Jul 2004, 407 posts, RR: 0
Reply 5, posted (7 years 6 months 1 week 6 days 3 hours ago) and read 4283 times:

Quoting TG992 (Reply 3):
is there enough of a market between AKL and YVR to have nonstop service. other than during some peak times? yes NAN would make sense.

I doubt there is a market for a non-stop flight, NAN does make sense or possibly AKL-RAR-YVR?



AC,CP,PW,WD,ND,UA,AA,NW,CO,DL,WA,AS,QX,PR,SQ,AI,TG,MH,JL,9W,IC,UL,PG,BW,NZ,QF,DJ,BA,LH,KL,OA,OS,ME,RJ,HA,AQ
User currently offlineViscount724 From Switzerland, joined Oct 2006, 25170 posts, RR: 22
Reply 6, posted (7 years 6 months 1 week 6 days 2 hours ago) and read 4235 times:

Quoting TG992 (Reply 3):
Quoting Planetime (Reply 2):
Would make more sense to send it through SFO

No, it would absolutely not. Ground handling charges, crew costs, the costs of operating a widebody on such a short route, the increased travel time putting off passengers, would mean it would be financial suicide, something clearly expressed by Air NZ internally. The only stop that would make sense to me would be NAN.

Fully agree. Any additional revenue generated from a tag-on sector like SFO-YVR will never offset the extra operating costs incurred. The days of routings like that with short tag-on sectors are over, with rare exceptions.

The NAN option might be interesting, especially with Air Pacific terminating their 737-800 service NAN-HNL-YVR on March 30. They will then codeshare with Canadian carrier Harmony Airways via HNL with FJ operating NAN-HNL and HQ HNL-YVR with their 757-200s. A nonstop NZ 777 NAN-YVR would obviously be more attractive but I question whether NZ would have rights under the Canada-Fiji and Canada-New Zealand air service agreements to operate NAN-YVR nonstop with 5th freedom rights. I would certainly thiink the Fiji government would do whatever they could to prevent such service to protect FJ.

Assuming the rumours are corrrect and AKL-YVR is nonstop, it will be interesting to see what frequency NZ plans.

[Edited 2007-02-19 01:58:56]

User currently offlineRichardJF From New Zealand, joined Mar 2001, 792 posts, RR: 0
Reply 7, posted (7 years 6 months 1 week 6 days 2 hours ago) and read 4217 times:

I don't believe in this one route per year idea. Existing setup needs repositioning. Very little case in NZ flying long haul directly out of Australia (with SYD-LAX / SFO possibly an exception. Hopefully nobody starts thinking NZ running BNE-YVR makes sense although good for HA. Good opportunities in Europe. For every 1 person in Asia or California that wants to go downunder there would be another 20 that want to go to Europe.

User currently offlineSunriseValley From Canada, joined Jul 2004, 4954 posts, RR: 5
Reply 8, posted (7 years 6 months 1 week 6 days ago) and read 4152 times:

I am a sceptic on the viability of this route. As a N.Z. ex-pat living in S.W. Ontario I will continue to use YYZ/ DTW -LAX/SFO -AKL for my biennial trip to see the relies. For me with a NEXUS card customs/immigration at the US/Canada border points is a non-event. An AKL-YVR service with an intermediate stop makes it even less attractive and if the walk from the domestic to international terminals at YVR is as long as I remember it 15-years ago ; no thanks.
Just my two cents worth...


User currently offlineDYK From Canada, joined Jul 2004, 407 posts, RR: 0
Reply 9, posted (7 years 6 months 1 week 6 days ago) and read 4107 times:

Quoting SunriseValley (Reply 8):
am a sceptic on the viability of this route. As a N.Z. ex-pat living in S.W. Ontario I will continue to use YYZ/ DTW -LAX/SFO -AKL for my biennial trip to see the relies. For me with a NEXUS card customs/immigration at the US/Canada border points is a non-event. An AKL-YVR service with an intermediate stop makes it even less attractive and if the walk from the domestic to international terminals at YVR is as long as I remember it 15-years ago ; no thanks.
Just my two cents worth...

[
I am pretty sure YVR did not have a domestic and International 15 years ago?



AC,CP,PW,WD,ND,UA,AA,NW,CO,DL,WA,AS,QX,PR,SQ,AI,TG,MH,JL,9W,IC,UL,PG,BW,NZ,QF,DJ,BA,LH,KL,OA,OS,ME,RJ,HA,AQ
User currently offlineRichardJF From New Zealand, joined Mar 2001, 792 posts, RR: 0
Reply 10, posted (7 years 6 months 1 week 6 days ago) and read 4099 times:

AKL-YVR on NZ and AC from YVR- LHR would be a great way of serving a direct NZ-UK market esp if they have a similar fitout. Much better than NZ metal at LHR. Germans can transfer at LHR or take SQ or TG.

User currently offlineCYQL From Canada, joined Sep 2006, 86 posts, RR: 1
Reply 11, posted (7 years 6 months 1 week 5 days 21 hours ago) and read 4011 times:

Quoting RichardJF (Reply 10):
Germans can transfer at LHR or take SQ or TG

The German passengers can take the LH FRA-YVR flight to connect to the NZ flight. AC has a couple of LHR flights in the summer. It would be a good STAR ALLIANCE connection, avoiding the US.


User currently offlineJayce From Canada, joined Nov 1999, 520 posts, RR: 0
Reply 12, posted (7 years 6 months 1 week 5 days 20 hours ago) and read 3949 times:

Quoting SunriseValley (Reply 8):
if the walk from the domestic to international terminals at YVR is as long as I remember it 15-years ago ; no thanks.

Walk? YVR was a small airport back then, hardly a hike at all. I would say far, far less of a walk than anything I've ever experienced at SFO, LAX or even YYZ.

Quoting DYK (Reply 9):
I am pretty sure YVR did not have a domestic and International 15 years ago?

Back then, YVR had a domestic pier and an international pier in the old horseshoe, both of which now serve domestic flights. In 1996 the new international terminal opened, which is connected to the "old" terminal via moving walkways.



"Trying is the first step towards failure" -Homer Simpson
User currently offlineKtachiya From Japan, joined Sep 2004, 1793 posts, RR: 2
Reply 13, posted (7 years 6 months 1 week 5 days 19 hours ago) and read 3889 times:

Quoting TG992 (Reply 3):
Ground handling charges, crew costs, the costs of operating a widebody on such a short route, the increased travel time putting off passengers, would mean it would be financial suicide, something clearly expressed by Air NZ internally

OK, then how come QF can make this work? When the route first began, I thought it would soon be routed through LAX as QF have a mini-hub there. But rather, they have been operating SYD-SFO-YVR in January and summer of last year. I have read posts of where QF was thinking of making the SFO-YVR route daily at some point in the future.

If QF can operate the B744ER in the YVR-SFO segment, then shouldn't NZ probably be able to do the same? Probably, NZ wouldn't use the B744 but rather a B772ER or something of a smaller size.



Flown on: DC-10-30, B747-200B, B747-300, B747-300SR, B747-400, B747-400D, B767-300, B777-200, B777-200ER, B777-300
User currently onlineZK-NBT From New Zealand, joined Oct 2000, 5316 posts, RR: 11
Reply 14, posted (7 years 6 months 1 week 5 days 18 hours ago) and read 3865 times:

Quoting Ktachiya (Reply 13):
OK, then how come QF can make this work? When the route first began, I thought it would soon be routed through LAX as QF have a mini-hub there. But rather, they have been operating SYD-SFO-YVR in January and summer of last year. I have read posts of where QF was thinking of making the SFO-YVR route daily at some point in the future.

QF are QF, NZ are NZ, Australia has a much larger population than NZ. I think the main reason QF don't go via LAX is because SFO is a much nicer airport, I'm not sure what loads are like to YVR for QF though. QF are trying to re establish themselves in the Canada market so a seasonal 1 stop flight is a good start, QF will increase SFO soon to 5 weekly but YVR will stay at 3 weekly. It's more likely to me that QF will eventually introduce SYD-YVR non stop on a 787 to compete with AC.

Quoting Ktachiya (Reply 13):
If QF can operate the B744ER in the YVR-SFO segment, then shouldn't NZ probably be able to do the same? Probably, NZ wouldn't use the B744 but rather a B772ER or something of a smaller size.

TG992 knows what he's talking about. NZ would like to use the aircraft that sits at LAX all day to fly somewhere but as he said the costs to alot of the places NZ would consider wouldn't be viable. I doubt that QF makes alot on the SFO-YVR sector if any $ but some people may go from SYD through to YVR.


Anyway can't wait to hear something official from NZ.


User currently offlinePlanemanofnz From New Zealand, joined Sep 2005, 1676 posts, RR: 0
Reply 15, posted (7 years 6 months 1 week 5 days 18 hours ago) and read 3848 times:
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My 2 cents are on AKL-NAN-YVR. Although my personal favourite would be AKL-YVR non stop. How long would such a flight be?

User currently offlineCchan From New Zealand, joined May 2003, 1759 posts, RR: 2
Reply 16, posted (7 years 6 months 1 week 5 days 18 hours ago) and read 3840 times:

Do they have spare 772 capacity to do YVR?

User currently onlineZK-NBT From New Zealand, joined Oct 2000, 5316 posts, RR: 11
Reply 17, posted (7 years 6 months 1 week 5 days 18 hours ago) and read 3831 times:

Quoting Planemanofnz (Reply 15):
Although my personal favourite would be AKL-YVR non stop. How long would such a flight be?

The fastest flight I can see via LAX is a 130 minute stopover from QF to AC is 16:43. I'm guessing about 14hrs for a non stop AKL-YVR and 15ish return.


User currently onlineZK-NBT From New Zealand, joined Oct 2000, 5316 posts, RR: 11
Reply 18, posted (7 years 6 months 1 week 5 days 18 hours ago) and read 3821 times:

Quoting Cchan (Reply 16):
Do they have spare 772 capacity to do YVR?

Yes lots! If the 744's stay on NZ1/2 year round and until they start PVG-Europe there is spare capacity though they will probably increase other flights aswell still heaps of spare capacity for now though.


User currently offlineKoruman From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 19, posted (7 years 6 months 1 week 5 days 17 hours ago) and read 3807 times:

I am getting a little concerned that we are all getting so carried away with Auckland-Vancouver (direct or via Honolulu or Nadi).

Wouldn't the obvious next expansion actually be to extend Auckland-Shanghai to either Frankfurt or Manchester, or to extend Auckland-San Francisco to one of those two European destinations.

I don't believe that in 2007 (compared with 1997) there is more daily premium traffic between Auckland and Canada than there is between Auckland and the population of 15 million serviced more easily by Manchester than London (i.e Manchester / Liverpool / Leeds / Sheffield / northern Midlands).

I know that northern England USED TO BE a low yield market, but even Leeds has a Harvey Nichols now.......


User currently offlineQuetzal From Australia, joined Feb 2007, 141 posts, RR: 0
Reply 20, posted (7 years 6 months 1 week 5 days 17 hours ago) and read 3795 times:

Quoting ZK-NBT (Reply 14):
It's more likely to me that QF will eventually introduce SYD-YVR non stop on a 787 to compete with AC.


QF or would that be JQ?



No matter how far you push the envelope, it will always remain Stationery.
User currently offlineMotorHussy From New Zealand, joined Mar 2000, 3198 posts, RR: 9
Reply 21, posted (7 years 6 months 1 week 5 days 17 hours ago) and read 3782 times:

Quoting Koruman (Reply 19):
Wouldn't the obvious next expansion actually be to extend Auckland-Shanghai to either Frankfurt or Manchester,

The legwork for one of these options I believe is in the pipeline. Good things can take time.

And BTW, why not AKL-NAN-YVR, AKL-RAR-YVR and AKL-YVR?

Regards
MH



come visit the south pacific
User currently offlineCchan From New Zealand, joined May 2003, 1759 posts, RR: 2
Reply 22, posted (7 years 6 months 1 week 5 days 17 hours ago) and read 3774 times:

Quoting MotorHussy (Reply 21):
AKL-RAR-YVR

I have the impression that at some point, maybe 10 years ago, Canada 3000 used to fly this route? How well did they do?


User currently offlineXiaotung From New Zealand, joined Jan 2006, 829 posts, RR: 0
Reply 23, posted (7 years 6 months 1 week 5 days 17 hours ago) and read 3766 times:

What happened to KIX? If not mistaken, there has been no more daily direct KIX services? Is the 777 being freed up?

User currently offlineTG992 From New Zealand, joined Jan 2001, 2910 posts, RR: 10
Reply 24, posted (7 years 6 months 1 week 5 days 16 hours ago) and read 3747 times:

Quoting Koruman (Reply 19):
I am getting a little concerned that we are all getting so carried away with Auckland-Vancouver (direct or via Honolulu or Nadi).

Wouldn't the obvious next expansion actually be to extend Auckland-Shanghai to either Frankfurt or Manchester, or to extend Auckland-San Francisco to one of those two European destinations.

I don't believe that in 2007 (compared with 1997) there is more daily premium traffic between Auckland and Canada than there is between Auckland and the population of 15 million serviced more easily by Manchester than London (i.e Manchester / Liverpool / Leeds / Sheffield / northern Midlands).

I know that northern England USED TO BE a low yield market, but even Leeds has a Harvey Nichols now.......

Well Koruman it's going to be AKL YVR direct, only a few more days now.

NZ1/2 will remain 744 and the extra 772 will do AKLYVR and extra AKLPVG.

Ground TG992



-
25 WorkFlyer : That certainly was the cheapest way to get to North America, so long as you did not mind stopping everywhere. They serviced that un with an A330. How
26 SunriseValley : On this basis the devil will be in the details. I would estimate a AKL-YVR flying time of about 13hr 15 min, one hour longer than to SFO. The flight
27 V2fix : Can anyone share what the kind of cargo/weight restrictons flying to YVR will actually pose ? Cheers.
28 747433 : QF does not have 5ths between LAX and Canada. Only HNL and SFO.
29 SunriseValley : The operation ready OEW of NZ's -200ER's is not public information so someone on the outside can only make an approximation. I took a look at one of
30 ZKOKA : TG992 Is absolutely correct, announcement this friday at 8am The Hub Fanshawe St. Have heard from Top Management it will be seasonally from November,
31 DYK : I have heard from the NZ GSA that they will be seasonally much like QF into YVR?
32 Zkojh : think a lot of us new this anyway, it was all round the office tonight, just love that downtime.. even better that a team leader spoke about JNB for 2
33 Darenw : So does this mean it is only going to operate for a few months every year???
34 Koruman : I believe I started a NZ to Johannesburg thread last July! At the risk of being a miserable bast*rd, I like the idea of Auckland-Vancouver non-stop, b
35 TG992 : Hi Koruman, I'd be interested in your figures for this claim, taking into account Air NZ's operating rules, average fuel burn, average/mean cargo and
36 Post contains images Planetime : I think Mr. Fyfe takes his personal hatred of LAX to heart. That is true how much of a cash cow that LAX-PPT is for AF and Air Tahiti. If Mr. Fyfe wo
37 Koruman : TG992, I'd love to answer your question but I can't actually give the technical answers you're looking for. What I can say as a layman (and I'm rightl
38 V2fix : I agree with much of your logic - I think you are being a little hard on Air NZ and Mr Fyfe with regard to the aircraft ! I dont think he was respons
39 Koruman : V2fix, I have never had a problem with the airline buying 777-200ERs, my issues are just that: 1) They put far too many economy and far too few Busine
40 V2fix : I agree with you comment - there maybe better higher yielding routes to start up before AKL-YVR. BUT.... The question we can't answer it when those 7
41 Koruman : Air New Zealand has a massively lower cost base than Qantas, not to mention a better product at present - and for as long as it makes sure that it sta
42 SunriseValley : Koruman, Is there a market for PER-CNS-LAX ? I would not be surprised if you see the -300ER introduced before 2010. To me it is extremely likely NZ ha
43 Jimyvr : I'd guess only jetStar will find the way to fly on this route
44 Zkojh : read somewhere at work that there won't be any aircarft dilvered in 2008/9 so intresting to see what happens, maybe use some of the 744,s (last count
45 RichardJF : I think you need gut feeling of where you should and shouldn't be putting the long haul jets. I'm sure formula's are fine domestically. You should be
46 Cchan : My feeling is that they shouldn't have refurbished the 744s for a start, and instead replace the entire 744 fleet with 773s. The 763s can stay for lo
47 ZKNBX : Hang on a minute. despite the reported problems with configuration of the toilets, my understanding is that the plan is still to increase the PPE sea
48 Post contains images TG992 : The customer would see very little if any difference between 744 and 773 - in fact, business class passengers would have a slightly less comfortable
49 Cchan : When they announced the refurbishment programme some years ago, I was wondering what they are doing with those old 744s? At that time, 744s were alre
50 ZKNZA : At the time the upgrade to the 747 fleet made the most sense.The airline needed to do something to the product in a relatively small space of time at
51 Cchan : Some other major operators have been retiring their 744s or have plans to retire their 744s soonish (eg. SQ, NH) The 733s aren't very old, however, i
52 Post contains links Legacyins : It's Official: http://www.newstalkzb.co.nz/newsdetail1.asp?storyID=112869
53 Flyjetstar : Talk about crumbs of info.!
54 Post contains links Sebring : http://www.airnewzealand.ca/airfares...lights/flights/yvr_akl_nonstop.htm http://www.newswire.ca/en/releases/archive/February2007/22/c3501.html Air Ne
55 TG992 : From Air NZ Air New Zealand to fly direct to Vancouver Air New Zealand will launch direct flights between Auckland and Vancouver in November. Group Ge
56 ZKSUJ : Now that it's official, great stuff to NZ. Hope they continue to expand and grow in future
57 MotorHussy : Brilliant, planning my Whistler and Blackcomb trip already! The perfect long-haul leg to try the new business premiere product. MH
58 NZ1 : NBU was delivered in 1991, not 1989. NZ1
59 ZKNZA : Sorry NZ1,I meant NBT. Also I believe that Cathay Pacific leased ZK-NBS ,from Air NZ when the aircraft was first delivered.
60 ZK-NBT : NBT was delivered in 1990 NBU in 1992. Yes CX leased NBS for about a year.
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