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WestJet - New Fleet  
User currently offlineFlyboyseven From Canada, joined Feb 2007, 903 posts, RR: 1
Posted (7 years 1 month 4 weeks 1 day 1 hour ago) and read 4669 times:

WS is a Canadian airline curently flying only the 737NG. Company officails have said that room to grow with the current type is limited, and that around 2010 the airline will have reached its limit for growth. In 2006 profits soared to $114.7 million up from last years $24 million. WestJet has said it is currently considering placing orders for the 787, with deliverys starting in 2013. The airline is considering adding Carribean destinations in the next few years, and would use the 787 to extend their service overseas. Purchasing the Dreamliner would break the WS drasticly from it's Southwest inspired roots.


As long as the number of take-offs equals the number of landings...you're doing fine.
27 replies: All unread, showing first 25:
 
User currently offlineFlyboyseven From Canada, joined Feb 2007, 903 posts, RR: 1
Reply 1, posted (7 years 1 month 4 weeks 1 day 1 hour ago) and read 4653 times:

Quoting KFLLCFII (Reply 1):
So what's your point?

Just thought someone might like to know. You didn't.



As long as the number of take-offs equals the number of landings...you're doing fine.
User currently offlineCanadianNorth From Canada, joined Aug 2002, 3387 posts, RR: 9
Reply 2, posted (7 years 1 month 4 weeks 1 day 1 hour ago) and read 4640 times:

Interesting move if true. It seems a little bold, but at the same time makes sence, as there are only so many Canadian routes that are profitable with 737s. 787s would open up a vast number of new opportunities, and I'm sure overseas flights would help feed the shorter flights quite nicely.

I wonder if they would introduce a business class?
Maybe it's possible for the kind I've seen in europe, where the 737s are set up as all-economy seating and then for business class they just leave the center seat empty and give more service. It won't be as nice as Air Canada's business class, but it would be cheaper and give Westjet a lot more flexibility (ex. if only 2 rows of business are needed only 2 rows are sold as business, and then if the next flight has enough business class traffic to fill 10 rows they could sell 10 rows as business, where as Air Canada's A319s and A320s are stuck with 14 or 16 business seats whether theres 5 or 50 passengers willing to pay for them).


CanadianNorth



What could possibly go wrong?
User currently offlineACDC8 From Canada, joined Mar 2005, 7637 posts, RR: 37
Reply 3, posted (7 years 1 month 4 weeks 1 day 1 hour ago) and read 4608 times:

Quoting Flyboyseven (Thread starter):
Purchasing the Dreamliner would break the WS drasticly from it's Southwest inspired roots.

They already have broken from their original business model, as an example, flying into YYZ, into the US and doing charters. So, I don't think that ordering another aircraft type will be much of a change for WS.



A Grumpy German Is A Sauerkraut
User currently offlineFlyboyseven From Canada, joined Feb 2007, 903 posts, RR: 1
Reply 4, posted (7 years 1 month 4 weeks 1 day 1 hour ago) and read 4557 times:

Quoting ACDC8 (Reply 3):

True enough. In their early years they were modled almost exactly the same as WN. Many of those similaritys still exist such as the one type (737-600,700,800) fleet.



As long as the number of take-offs equals the number of landings...you're doing fine.
User currently offlineGmonney From Canada, joined Jan 2001, 2159 posts, RR: 20
Reply 5, posted (7 years 1 month 4 weeks 1 day ago) and read 4521 times:

I think the biggest thing for WS to do in the future is to stick with what they are good at... that is domestic, some popular US and Carribean, and Charters... All the routes seem to be making money and they have a great product. You don't have to add routes to make more money... there is a very large market and market share will make more money than adding routes and spreading out your operation. I think what they have done is supply what the Canadian market had demanded, US and Canada are completely different markets (if you want to compare WN to WS). Without getting into it too deep, Canadian holiday travel is built on these charters like SSV, TS and others of old... So catching a piece with available aircraft makes a lot of sense. If you look at the US, it seems every major carrier flies to the islands and I would assume its affordable because of the low taxes in the states. So guys like WN don't fly to sun destinations... for that reason.

Westjet impressed me last month with my YYZ-LAS-YWG-YYZ run, I didn't have a PTV for the LAS-YWG run but it was the redeye and i need the sleep anyway... So they need to stick with what they are good at and not try to be the next AC.

Grant



Drive it like you stole it!
User currently offlinePilotRecruit From Canada, joined Jan 2007, 99 posts, RR: 0
Reply 6, posted (7 years 1 month 4 weeks 22 hours ago) and read 4342 times:

I believe spreading into the international market is an excellent move for WS. It has been speculated for a long time now that WS is seriously considering One World and this certainly would make them an even more attractive member. BA's Willy Walsh has even come to Calgary to personally have a sit down with Clive Beddoe and Sean Durfy. I can imagine as WS wants to keep expanding, as they always do, Mr. Walsh may be in the background somewhat pushing them along into the international market. One World/BA suffered greatly in the Canadian market with the consolidation of Canadian and has been chomping at the bit to extend it's services into Canada. Plus, I don't think it's just the economy in Calgary that pushed BA to start service there again. Especially since BA has been quite hasty to expand it's North American network with Calgary being the first added North American route in 10 years.

Also, if not One World, then a code share between BA and WS could be closer down the road then we may think and with the addition of the 787 to WS fleet, BA can take advantage of WS priveledges to fly in and out of Canada as much as they like. One of the most saught after slots in the world is the daytime Heathrow slot and with the loads BA is experiencing on all of it's Canadian sectors, I can imagine we'd see LHR as one of WS first destinations with BA as the donor. With the amount of sold out flights AC sends to LHR each day in the summer, I certainly think there is plenty of room for another few flights a day.

Just my two cents, but I'm really pulling for them to buy the big boys, because I want to come back and fly for them in 5 or 6 years!



"Whether you think you can or you can't, either way you're right." Henry Ford
User currently offlineCYQL From Canada, joined Sep 2006, 85 posts, RR: 1
Reply 7, posted (7 years 1 month 4 weeks 21 hours ago) and read 4237 times:

I see Westjet adding a CRJ/ERJ before going for a larger aircraft. There are a lot of cities that a 737 is too large. A 50 to 100 seater would open up a lot of markets. If they need a larger A/C sooner, I'm sure Boeing could deliver some 763's on fairly short notice.

I agree that WS will probably join Oneworld, as it makes good business sense, and BA and AA would like another Canadian partner after losing Canadian Airlines.


User currently offlineFLYYUL From Italy, joined Jun 2000, 4952 posts, RR: 51
Reply 8, posted (7 years 1 month 4 weeks 20 hours ago) and read 4182 times:

What is the source for this information... or is this just pure speculation?

User currently offlineRobsawatsky From Canada, joined Dec 2003, 597 posts, RR: 0
Reply 9, posted (7 years 1 month 4 weeks 5 hours ago) and read 3863 times:

Quoting FLYYUL (Reply 8):
What is the source for this information... or is this just pure speculation?

Here, amongst others:

http://www.globeinvestor.com/servlet...15&archive=gam&slug=RTICKERMAIN15#


User currently offlineFLYYUL From Italy, joined Jun 2000, 4952 posts, RR: 51
Reply 10, posted (7 years 1 month 4 weeks 5 hours ago) and read 3848 times:

That article is very vague. In fact there is nothing substantial to would lead us to believe that there is substantial interest.

Which LCC has broke away from their model and accomodated widebody international airplanes? None to my knowledge.


User currently offlineAA1818 From Trinidad and Tobago, joined Feb 2006, 3414 posts, RR: 4
Reply 11, posted (7 years 1 month 4 weeks 3 hours ago) and read 3752 times:

If they are looking at Caribbean ops it would be great to see a 787 over our clear blue waters, but a 737NG could make it and would probbaly be easier to fill.

YYZ- Dom Rep (Punta Cana, Santo Domingo, Puerto Plata)
YYZ- KIN/ MBJ
YYZ- POS
YYZ- BGI
YYZ- CCS
YYZ- HAV

...those would probably be pretty high up on the list of Caribbean destinations (I know Venezuela is in South America, but it's very close!!) Mexico might also be a good place to start for international Services. I'm sure WJ could also fly into many European cities

YYZ- FRA, LGW
YUL/ YYZ- CDG

Looking for some comments/ criticisms about my proposed routes!!!

AA1818



God is a Trini...
User currently offlineYyz717 From Canada, joined Sep 2001, 16228 posts, RR: 57
Reply 12, posted (7 years 1 month 4 weeks 3 hours ago) and read 3706 times:

Quoting CYQL (Reply 7):
I see Westjet adding a CRJ/ERJ before going for a larger aircraft. There are a lot of cities that a 737 is too large. A 50 to 100 seater would open up a lot of markets.

I agree. Virgin Blue just bit the bullet and ordered the E190/170. But Westjet has no far said that they would stick with the 737.

Quoting FLYYUL (Reply 10):
Which LCC has broke away from their model and accomodated widebody international airplanes? None to my knowledge.

Jetstar Australia just added the 332 to their 320 fleet.



Panam, TWA, Ansett, Eastern.......AC next? Might be good for Canada.
User currently offlineFLYYUL From Italy, joined Jun 2000, 4952 posts, RR: 51
Reply 13, posted (7 years 1 month 4 weeks 3 hours ago) and read 3688 times:

Quoting Yyz717 (Reply 12):
Jetstar Australia just added the 332 to their 320 fleet.

Within the North American context (F9, NK, B6, WN, etc.)


User currently offlineSlawko From Canada, joined May 1999, 3799 posts, RR: 9
Reply 14, posted (7 years 1 month 4 weeks 3 hours ago) and read 3677 times:

FLYYUL you are assuming that WS is still an LCC, I'd argue that they left their original/LCC model long ago. If they go with 67's or 87's it wont be in the context of operating as a LCC.


"Clive Beddoe says he favours competition, but his actions do not support that idea." Robert Milton - CEO Air Canada
User currently offlineYVRtoYYZ From Canada, joined Mar 2004, 646 posts, RR: 0
Reply 15, posted (7 years 1 month 4 weeks ago) and read 3558 times:

Quoting Flyboyseven (Thread starter):
WestJet has said it is currently considering placing orders for the 787, with deliverys starting in 2013

I'm curious as to when they referred to considering the B787 as an option. The closest B787 model I can envision meeting their requirements would be the -3 series.

-YVRtoYYZ


User currently offlineSLCUT2777 From United States of America, joined Dec 2005, 3993 posts, RR: 11
Reply 16, posted (7 years 1 month 4 weeks ago) and read 3525 times:

Quoting ACDC8 (Reply 3):
They already have broken from their original business model, as an example, flying into YYZ, into the US and doing charters. So, I don't think that ordering another aircraft type will be much of a change for WS.

While flying into YYZ is certainly going against the WN business model, doing trans-border flights is something any airline even from the get go must do if based in Canada. While it is a vast country geographically, it only has the population roughly of the State of California spread out over that vastness, but below the 49th is a country of 300 million and many business markets that Canada trades with and is reliant upon. It would be foolish not to do trans-border flights from start-up. No Canada based carrier can expect to do this. WN on the other hand will outgrow the lower 48 U.S. market soon enough, and it isn't a matter of IF but WHEN they start trans-border flights.

Quoting AA1818 (Reply 11):
If they are looking at Caribbean ops it would be great to see a 787 over our clear blue waters, but a 737NG could make it and would probably be easier to fill.

YYZ- Dom Rep (Punta Cana, Santo Domingo, Puerto Plata)
YYZ- KIN/ MBJ
YYZ- POS
YYZ- BGI
YYZ- CCS
YYZ- HAV

...those would probably be pretty high up on the list of Caribbean destinations (I know Venezuela is in South America, but it's very close!!) Mexico might also be a good place to start for international Services.

I think you can add YYC and YEG to these Caribbean destinations as origins. Funny thing, until the late 1990s when the exchange rate between the U.S. and Canadian $$ became to large, Hawaii was the biggest tropical getaway from those from B.C. and the Prairie Provinces, but the D.R. took that away very quickly, and until you get as far west as YYC and YEG, it is actually closer to Canada than Hawaii. Along with SLC down in the U.S. you are actually closer to POP or PUJ than you are HNL, OGG or KOA. Hard to believe but very true, go to the great circle mapper site and see for yourself! WS does already offer charter flights to Mexico, SJD, PVT and MZT I believe from YYC, YEG and YQL.



DELTA Air Lines; The Only Way To Fly from Salt Lake City; Let the Western Heritage always be with Delta!
User currently offlineMultimark From Canada, joined Jul 2006, 788 posts, RR: 0
Reply 17, posted (7 years 1 month 4 weeks ago) and read 3486 times:

Welcome to Westjet, the new Canadi>n Airlines International! And Durfy and Beddoe should be very, very careful before heading down that road. Remember another successful Canadian 737 operator that decided it wanted to go international? If you said Pacific Western, give yourself a prize. We all know what happened there. Wow!

User currently offlineSwissy From Switzerland, joined Jan 2005, 1734 posts, RR: 4
Reply 18, posted (7 years 1 month 3 weeks 6 days 23 hours ago) and read 3425 times:

First, sure numbers look good for WS, however "we" lost 2 competitors since then and 06 was the first full year for AC & WS........... without these two, so lets wait for 07 results and see...

US market very bumpy and not much of a success in over 3 years....., LCC=LOWER COST CARRIER in WS case would work if they go international with T7 or 787.... growth/cost and a partnership/alliance would be easier with two type ac, going with an smaller ac would just mean WS is limiting them self even more to the domestic market=limitetd future growth=less interesting for investment......... which shows it clearly in their stock performance lately......

So go WS spread your wings, Canada is big enough to support 2 National Carriers.

Cheers,


User currently offlineSlawko From Canada, joined May 1999, 3799 posts, RR: 9
Reply 19, posted (7 years 1 month 3 weeks 6 days 23 hours ago) and read 3389 times:

No it isn't....do we need to rhyme off the names of those who have tried in the past???


"Clive Beddoe says he favours competition, but his actions do not support that idea." Robert Milton - CEO Air Canada
User currently offlineYyz717 From Canada, joined Sep 2001, 16228 posts, RR: 57
Reply 20, posted (7 years 1 month 3 weeks 6 days 23 hours ago) and read 3389 times:

Quoting FLYYUL (Reply 13):
Quoting Yyz717 (Reply 12):
Jetstar Australia just added the 332 to their 320 fleet.

Within the North American context (F9, NK, B6, WN, etc.)

Canada's and Australia's aviation markets mirror each other far more than does Canada's to the US. Each has a dominant legacy carrier and a fast growing LCC. Australia actually has 2 LCC's although one is owned by Qantas. The other LCC Virgin Blue announced today its intent to order 7 773's. It's current largest aircraft is the 738.

I'm sure Canadians would be very supportive of long haul flights by WS using the 788. As WS reaches the planned 83 73G's by end of 2009, even some domestic routes (YYZ-YYC/YVR) could support 788 ops on some frequencies much like AC runs widebodies on those routes.



Panam, TWA, Ansett, Eastern.......AC next? Might be good for Canada.
User currently offlineACDC8 From Canada, joined Mar 2005, 7637 posts, RR: 37
Reply 21, posted (7 years 1 month 3 weeks 6 days 22 hours ago) and read 3315 times:

To be honest, I don't think WS is going to have much of a choice. Canada is in dire need of another full schedule flag carrier, however, can Canada support it? Also, if WS does order larger aircraft, who will be the first to fall?


A Grumpy German Is A Sauerkraut
User currently offlineIloveboeing From United States of America, joined Oct 2005, 771 posts, RR: 0
Reply 22, posted (7 years 1 month 3 weeks 6 days 22 hours ago) and read 3311 times:

I think 787s in WestJet colors would be awesome! Does anyone know what possible configurations and seat pitch they would use?

User currently offlineDon81603 From Canada, joined Jul 2005, 1185 posts, RR: 0
Reply 23, posted (7 years 1 month 3 weeks 6 days 13 hours ago) and read 3137 times:

WS already does some Carribeean charters for Air Transat, and they have scheduled flights to HNL as well. They are definately expanding, and I can see the 787 in WS's future. I just hope they keep the warm friendly atmosphere on board. For myself, this is what sets them apart from almost every other airline. The cabin crews definately seem to have fun at work, and that attitude spills over to the passengers.


Eagles may soar, but weasels don't get sucked into jet engines.
User currently offlineAA1818 From Trinidad and Tobago, joined Feb 2006, 3414 posts, RR: 4
Reply 24, posted (7 years 1 month 3 weeks 6 days 12 hours ago) and read 3122 times:

WS and CM might be the two airlines to use the 787 to brea from their traditional models. Let's hope they both choose the 787 in 2007!!!!!!!! The 787 IS revolutionary!! hehe

Totally Tropical
AA1818



God is a Trini...
25 Multimark : If there is a question that Canada can support it, then I doubt there is a dire need....
26 Post contains images Swissy : Right on the money..... Yes Canada is big enough for 2 flag carriers, WS is smarter then CP was so we can not compare these two. Cheers,
27 Post contains images YOW : WS abandoned the Southwest model long ago, but are still a LCC. They're far more a JetBlue-style of LCC nowadays...minus the winter weather fiascos.
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