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JAL Announces Interest In MIA!  
User currently offlineContinental123 From United States of America, joined Nov 2006, 147 posts, RR: 0
Posted (7 years 6 months 1 week 6 hours ago) and read 4546 times:

In a press conference recently, a JAL spokeswoman announced intrest in a non-stop NRT-MIA. They also said that they would be intrested in an AA codeshare.

36 replies: All unread, showing first 25:
 
User currently offlineFRAspotter From United States of America, joined May 2004, 2348 posts, RR: 9
Reply 1, posted (7 years 6 months 1 week 6 hours ago) and read 4549 times:

Quoting Continental123 (Thread starter):
intrested in an AA codeshare.

So does that mean that they aren't even thinking about using their own metal?



"Drunks run stop signs. Stoners wait for them to turn green."
User currently onlineAlitaliaMD11 From Spain, joined Dec 2003, 4068 posts, RR: 13
Reply 2, posted (7 years 6 months 1 week 6 hours ago) and read 4535 times:

Quoting FRAspotter (Reply 1):
So does that mean that they aren't even thinking about using their own metal?

I'm sure if it was American that would operate MIA-NRT they would be the ones to announce interest.



No Vueling No Party
User currently offlineSkyyMaster From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 3, posted (7 years 6 months 1 week 5 hours ago) and read 4502 times:

Does JL still operate the NRT-JFK-GRU flight? Seems a n/s to MIA would offer lots of cnx options to Latin America and do away the need for that flight, assuming it still runs.

User currently onlineAlitaliaMD11 From Spain, joined Dec 2003, 4068 posts, RR: 13
Reply 4, posted (7 years 6 months 1 week 5 hours ago) and read 4474 times:

Quoting SkyyMaster (Reply 3):
Does JL still operate the NRT-JFK-GRU flight?

Yes.



No Vueling No Party
User currently offlineCentrair From Japan, joined Jan 2005, 3598 posts, RR: 20
Reply 5, posted (7 years 6 months 1 week 5 hours ago) and read 4442 times:

Quoting AlitaliaMD11 (Reply 2):
I'm sure if it was American that would operate MIA-NRT they would be the ones to announce interest.

This could be done with JL metal. JL will have the planes available.

JL has just joined OneWorld. I think many routes are going to become codeshared.

How much longer would MIA-NRT be compared to DL's ATL-NRT flight?

Why?
AA pilots have that flying restriction thing.
MIA-NRT is almost 100nm further than DFW-PVG and would be a little longer int time. If pilots wouldn't allow DFW-PVG, they are not going to approve MIA-NRT. I think this would be on JL metal and have an AA number attached to it. In exchange, some AA flights out of MIA could have JL numbers.

[Edited 2007-02-19 03:23:38]


Yes...I am not a KIX fan. Let's Japanese Aviation!
User currently offlineMAH4546 From Sweden, joined Jan 2001, 32703 posts, RR: 72
Reply 6, posted (7 years 6 months 1 week 5 hours ago) and read 4382 times:

Interesting. It would be cool to see JAL at MIA, but I can't see it happening soon. I think we will see Korean Air before JAL.


a.
User currently offlineIkramerica From United States of America, joined May 2005, 21507 posts, RR: 60
Reply 7, posted (7 years 6 months 1 week 5 hours ago) and read 4344 times:

I assume they'd need the 77W on the route, especially in the westbound direction. I think most of their 772ERs are too old, making rotations difficult, and the 744 isn't long-legged enough. Of course, a 788 would also do the job nicely and wouldn't need to fill such a large premium cabin compared to the 77W, so maybe they are talking about this for next year?


Of all the things to worry about... the Wookie has no pants.
User currently offlineMCOflyer From United States of America, joined Jun 2006, 8670 posts, RR: 15
Reply 8, posted (7 years 6 months 1 week 4 hours ago) and read 4297 times:

My two cents on a 77W flight begining next year. It would make a better option for business travelers from MCO that are on United morining SFO flight.

MCOflyer



Never be afraid to stand up for who you are.
User currently offlineLegacyins From United States of America, joined Aug 2003, 2070 posts, RR: 0
Reply 9, posted (7 years 6 months 1 week 4 hours ago) and read 4281 times:

Quoting MCOflyer (Reply 8):
My two cents on a 77W flight begining next year. It would make a better option for business travelers from MCO that are on United morining SFO flight.

Not if your a Star frequent flyer.  Wink



John@SFO
User currently offlineCarpethead From Japan, joined Aug 2004, 2953 posts, RR: 3
Reply 10, posted (7 years 6 months 1 week 4 hours ago) and read 4241 times:

Quoting Ikramerica (Reply 7):
I think most of their 772ERs are too old, making rotations difficult

Too old huh. I guess it depends on who you work for but the oldest one is not even 5 years old yet, while the youngest hasn't seen its 2nd birthday.

All of its 772ERs are two-class birds and only 11 are available with no additional on order. The first three are not fitted the crew rest bunks, so they operate only Asian routes. What -200s they have on order are non-ERs but not too hard to change it (one call to Seattle from JL HQ should do the trick).
JL has only one 773ER for delivery this year while retiring a number of classic 747s & 744 for BCF conversions, so they would have to strip one of the NRT-European routes of the 773ER. However, it is definitely possible with the scope of JL's widebody fleet.


User currently offlineAAL0616 From United States of America, joined Jul 2006, 272 posts, RR: 4
Reply 11, posted (7 years 6 months 1 week 4 hours ago) and read 4218 times:

Although this would be a professional fantasy fulfilled, all-time, life-time dream flight to handle on its inaugural run with the AAL 772, the reality is, given the westbound flight time (at minimum), and all the other considerations, get ready, following the April 1 entry of JAL into oneworld, for the "crane" to probably appear at MIA on 747-400 equipment and possibly the JFK-GRU tag from NRT to disappear in favor of JAL-blocked seats on AAL MIA-GRU trips, and AAL-blocked seats on the MIA-NRT JAL trips.

It makes complete sense for both companies and would be a great way to begin their alliance. The 747-400 can carry a payload suited to the stage length and market characteristics, lots of electronic cargo, and servicing the large Sao Paulo area Japanese and Japanese descendant population.

Many here have been wondering about when there would be direct MIA-Asia service with the upcoming 787 airframes but this step now is one that in the current market can be a winner from day one. The AAL 772 fleet is tied up, and the newer LR 777 variant really makes more sense on this route than the current aircraft, which would be positioned and loaded daily the way it has to be from EWR to HKG on COA because of the distance and prevailing wind conditions.

So, do not be surprised if a JAL-AAL code share NRT-MIA-GRU turns out to become a reality in the near future. The real question is what will be the weekly frequency level that is determined by planners to be appropriate, and which type of JAL 747-400 equipment are utilized (passenger/cargo mix).


User currently offlineAAL0616 From United States of America, joined Jul 2006, 272 posts, RR: 4
Reply 12, posted (7 years 6 months 1 week 4 hours ago) and read 4205 times:

Another thought:

Although they can tweak the 744s to handle it, yes, as mentioned, westbound depending upon loading conditions, daily weather, the jet stream and the season they may need to take stops in ANC, so if JAL can spring 77W equipment, all the better. We will see. But bet on them doing it. It makes sense.


User currently offlineSkyzheimers From United States of America, joined Jan 2007, 75 posts, RR: 0
Reply 13, posted (7 years 6 months 1 week 4 hours ago) and read 4164 times:

AA has no interest in serving NRT-MIA nonstop since it would weaken the yields on their NRT-JFK flights which are heavily supported by South American connections...

User currently offlineIkramerica From United States of America, joined May 2005, 21507 posts, RR: 60
Reply 14, posted (7 years 6 months 1 week 2 hours ago) and read 4032 times:

Quoting Carpethead (Reply 10):
Too old huh. I guess it depends on who you work for but the oldest one is not even 5 years old yet, while the youngest hasn't seen its 2nd birthday.

I thought they had older 772ERs than that. If they are only 2-5 years old, they definitely have the range to make MIA. A daily flight would require 2...



Of all the things to worry about... the Wookie has no pants.
User currently offlineKtachiya From Japan, joined Sep 2004, 1793 posts, RR: 2
Reply 15, posted (7 years 6 months 6 days 23 hours ago) and read 3877 times:

Quoting Ikramerica (Reply 14):
I thought they had older 772ERs than that. If they are only 2-5 years old, they definitely have the range to make MIA. A daily flight would require 2...

Probably, the 777 that you are thinking about is the ones that are stictly used on domestic flights. Those ones are rather older than the 2-5 years. It was not until quite recently that JL started getting the 777-246ER to replace the retiring MD-11's and some 744 on European routes.



Flown on: DC-10-30, B747-200B, B747-300, B747-300SR, B747-400, B747-400D, B767-300, B777-200, B777-200ER, B777-300
User currently offlineCarpethead From Japan, joined Aug 2004, 2953 posts, RR: 3
Reply 16, posted (7 years 6 months 6 days 23 hours ago) and read 3866 times:

Quoting AAL0616 (Reply 11):
get ready, following the April 1 entry of JAL into oneworld, for the "crane" to probably appear at M

Only problem is that there's not many more 'cranes' schemes left flying. A few 744s, 772s, & 763s left. A quarter of the sun might have to do.

The way JL is headed the more likely equipment will be 773ER, since it seems JL, like NH, is replacing the quads with twins on the longer-haul routes.


User currently offlineAAL0616 From United States of America, joined Jul 2006, 272 posts, RR: 4
Reply 17, posted (7 years 6 months 6 days 20 hours ago) and read 3780 times:

Yes, it is very true that in reality, the quarter sun would be a better description today than the crane, but one can always sentimentally think of the crane when thinking of JAL.

And, yes, the long range 773-ER indeed may be the equipment of choice, and makes sense for a potential NRT-MIA route as more of them come into the JAL fleet.


User currently offlineNorcal773 From United States of America, joined Feb 2007, 1447 posts, RR: 12
Reply 18, posted (7 years 6 months 6 days 20 hours ago) and read 3742 times:

Quoting AAL0616 (Reply 11):
following the April 1 entry of JAL into oneworld

Wait, they haven't joined Oneworld yet?? I'm flying them in a week and I'm hoping to get the miles on my AAdvantage account.



If you're going through hell, keep going
User currently offlineCentrair From Japan, joined Jan 2005, 3598 posts, RR: 20
Reply 19, posted (7 years 6 months 6 days 19 hours ago) and read 3692 times:

Quoting Norcal773 (Reply 18):
I'm flying them in a week and I'm hoping to get the miles on my AAdvantage account.

You can get miles. I flew on them in 2000 from ORD-NRT and got AAdvantage miles. (the only time I ever used my AA card actually...I didn't even pay for the ticket...thank you Ministry of Foreign Affairs and CLAIR)



Yes...I am not a KIX fan. Let's Japanese Aviation!
User currently offlineNorcal773 From United States of America, joined Feb 2007, 1447 posts, RR: 12
Reply 20, posted (7 years 6 months 6 days 18 hours ago) and read 3676 times:

Quoting Centrair (Reply 19):
You can get miles. I flew on them in 2000 from ORD-NRT and got AAdvantage miles. (the only time I ever used my AA card actually...I didn't even pay for the ticket...thank you Ministry of Foreign Affairs and CLAIR)

Thank you. I was a beginning to get a little worried there.



If you're going through hell, keep going
User currently offlineAAL0616 From United States of America, joined Jul 2006, 272 posts, RR: 4
Reply 21, posted (7 years 6 months 6 days 16 hours ago) and read 3539 times:

Quoting Norcal773 (Reply 18):
Wait, they haven't joined Oneworld yet?? I'm flying them in a week and I'm hoping to get the miles on my AAdvantage account.

Of course, the two-way AAL-JAL code shares have been around for a while, and if the flight is marketed as such, naturally you can earn miles. April 1 is the day JAL actually joins oneworld as a full member, and cross-mileage earning opportunities will definitely increase. With full membership comes the type of planning, promotion and seat marketing that could lead to a possible NRT-MIA route.


User currently offlineMAH4546 From Sweden, joined Jan 2001, 32703 posts, RR: 72
Reply 22, posted (7 years 6 months 6 days 8 hours ago) and read 3297 times:

Was able to find out some more today, and, yes, JAL is considering flying to Miami. The Miami talk has come out of two events. First is, obviously, the oneWorld membership. The other, less obvious, is the sudden over-capacity in the New York City-Sao Paulo market with five airlines (six when Varig gets back) and too many daily flights. JAL is considering transferring JL 47/48, which operates NRT-GRU-JFK 3x a week, to NRT-MIA-GRU (and as a result JFK-NRT would possibly be reduced to 13x a week [three more frequencies are being added this summer] to 10x), but possibly not (JFK-NRT has gone from 5 to 3 airlines in the past year, and is seeing a nice boost in yields for the three remaining airlines). The Miami-Sao Paulo market is larger and has only two airlines (three when Varig comes back), both of which codeshare with each other (AA and TAM). JAL would also be able to codeshare with AA on the route. MIA-GRU is a very big route for AA (their second busiest long-haul route after JFK-LHR) and AA would welcome the additional capacity JAL can provide. AA flies up to four daily flights between Miami and Sao Paulo depending on the season.

We'll see what happens, I wouldn't get too excited just yet, but it would be pretty awesome. Just remember, it seems very odd that JAL, which has been cutting back heavily on loss-making international routes, would suddenly make a risky move and start flights to Miami. I don't see JAL taking the risk right now, so while the talks are happening, they will likely proceede slowly and with cation, if at all.

There are a few "ifs" here. First, while a 744 would have little problem on eastbound NRT-MIA, MIA-NRT, with strong headwinds, could turn into many stops in Anchorage during parts of the year. Also, will AA's feed, primarily from Latin America, the Caribbean, and Orlando, be enough to help supplement the O&D on the route given the fact that Latin American and Caribbean nationals will need to go through the hassle of getting a visa to transit in Miami? If the latter wasn't the case, I think the answer would be an easy "yes".

We'll see what develops in the next 12-18 months, but if Miami has a non-stop passenger flight to the Orient within two years, I'd bet it would be on a baby blue plane to Seoul. Korean Air Cargo's results at Miami since starting service in July have been excellent, and they are planning on going to 4x weekly service this summer.

[Edited 2007-02-20 00:25:16]


a.
User currently offlineConcordeBoy From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 23, posted (7 years 6 months 6 days 8 hours ago) and read 3251 times:

Quoting MAH4546 (Reply 22):
(their second busiest long-haul route after JFK-LHR) *** AA flies up to four daily flights between Miami and Sao Paulo depending on the season.

...is not ORD-LHR also busier than that for them?


User currently offlineMAH4546 From Sweden, joined Jan 2001, 32703 posts, RR: 72
Reply 24, posted (7 years 6 months 6 days 7 hours ago) and read 3212 times:

Quoting ConcordeBoy (Reply 23):
Quoting MAH4546 (Reply 22):
(their second busiest long-haul route after JFK-LHR) *** AA flies up to four daily flights between Miami and Sao Paulo depending on the season.

...is not ORD-LHR also busier than that for them?

Yes, it is, totally forgot about that one.



a.
25 Ktachiya : I'm pretty sure it isn't anymore. At least considering ORD, JAL has undergone quite a few changes. First, they used to operate KIX-ORD a couple years
26 Post contains images ConcordeBoy : ...um cher, I was talking about ORD-LHR not NRT.
27 Bobnwa : Why would a business traveler from MCO to NRT want to travel MCO-MIA-NRT over MCO-ORD-NRT or MCO-DTW-NRT. It would be farther and longer.
28 MAH4546 : There is a good amount of leisure traffic between Orlando and Japan, and that would certainly help fill a plane, as leisure travelers don't care as m
29 BigGSFO : There is much appeal to a short "hop" to the gateway as opposed to a longer flight when there is a two-leg international journey. In this instance, t
30 MAH4546 : Definitley. I much perfer doing a short hop and then a long flight, rather than something in between, and I'm sure I'm not the only one. The idea of
31 OOer : How about JL starting a NRT-MCO flight? 4X weekly.....longshot or possible? Or even a ICN-MCO flight on Korean.....lots of codeshare flight on DL to o
32 MCOflyer : What if you belong to oneworld? Bob, No disrespect to NWA, but MIA is alot easier to connect in. for Florida and Caribbean residents, MIA would be a
33 MAH4546 : There is very little business traffic and minimal connections when compared to Miami. Miami would likely see JAL or Korean Air before Orlando. Can JA
34 Bobnwa : I thought we were talking about MCO passengers connecting to NRT. Are you trying to tell me that connecting in MIA for MCO originating passengers is
35 LipeGIG : Not to forget that a flight thru MIA will allow connections to MAO, SSA and GIG all of them very popular destinations in Japan, without plane change.
36 DL Widget Head : Yes and yes. I think it would be just as easy and convenient, if not more so, to connect in MIA to NRT than ORD or DTW. As MAH indicated, the flight
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