Sponsor Message:
Civil Aviation Forum
My Starred Topics | Profile | New Topic | Forum Index | Help | Search 
US Immigration And New Passport Rule Question  
User currently offlineSflaflight From United States of America, joined Nov 2005, 1183 posts, RR: 1
Posted (7 years 5 months 1 week 4 days 15 hours ago) and read 5075 times:

I am going ot travel to MEX from MIA the second week in March and I have a question about the new passport requirements for anyone who might be somewhat familiar at all with the new changes.

The new law says that for all travel in the Western Hemisphere initiative, every US citizen must now have a passport to re-enter the US. Here is the problem. No where does it specify a US passport. Everywhere I have researched - state.gov, internet only says a passport.

Question. I just got naturalized in December and have NOT submitted for a US passport yet. I am also a Canadian citizen and have a valid passport (ie, dual citizenship now.) My departure date is Mar 06. I technically can do a rush/expedite passport first thing Tuesday 20 feb. Should I chance it and return to the US with my Canadian passport and my Naturalization certificate, or rush a US passport and hope that it makes it back in time? I will have to send in the original US Naturalization certificate to do that. If it doesn't get back in time, I have no original US naturalization certificate to re-enter with. Also, I'm flying AM to MEX, will they let me board with my Canadian passport and Naturalization certificate or do you all think AM will insist on a US passport! Any opinion or experience welcome.

[Edited 2007-02-19 07:12:13]

34 replies: All unread, showing first 25:
 
User currently offlineEWRCabincrew From United States of America, joined May 2006, 5523 posts, RR: 56
Reply 1, posted (7 years 5 months 1 week 4 days 15 hours ago) and read 5060 times:

Correct. It does not specify, but it means a passport, regardless of who issued it. You need a passport to enter the US from outside the US. Any passport.

AM will insist on a or any passport, as long as it is yours and it can identify you. The airline has no jursidiction over where you live, what citizenship you claim or what passport you fly under. The only jursidiction they have is that whatever passport you do show, you must possess proper entry (visa, no visa) into the country you are travelling to based on the passport given (like if you are travelling on a Mexican passport going to the US, you need a visa or if you are travelling on a Canadian passport you do not need a visa for the US).



You can't cure stupid
User currently offlineLegacyins From United States of America, joined Aug 2003, 2054 posts, RR: 0
Reply 2, posted (7 years 5 months 1 week 4 days 14 hours ago) and read 5055 times:

Quoting Sflaflight (Thread starter):
Question. I just got naturalized in December and have NOT submitted for a US passport yet. I am also a Canadian citizen and have a valid passport (ie, dual citizenship now.)

If you are a United States citizen, you are required to present a valid United States passport for re-entry to the United States if returning on an Air carrier from Mexico.

Quoting Sflaflight (Thread starter):
I'm flying AM to MEX, will they let me board with my Canadian passport and Naturalization certificate or do you all think AM will insist on a US passport!

You need to contact a Mexican Consulate to see what you would require to enter the country of Mexico.

This sound advice, hence my screen name, Legacy INS.



John@SFO
User currently offlineLaxintl From United States of America, joined May 2000, 24858 posts, RR: 46
Reply 3, posted (7 years 5 months 1 week 4 days 14 hours ago) and read 4995 times:

I certainly agree with LegacyINS.

If you are a US citizen you are expected to present US credentials, not that of another country irregardless of your ability to hold dual citizenship.

What you do when travelling outside the US is up to you, however one must have a US passport to enter the US as a US citizen.



From the desert to the sea, to all of Southern California
User currently offlineDetroitflyer From United States of America, joined Oct 2006, 391 posts, RR: 0
Reply 4, posted (7 years 5 months 1 week 4 days 13 hours ago) and read 4988 times:

dont take my advice beacuse i dont know, but just another quick ? to ins

if he is a canadian citizen anyway why cant he just enter being the fact that he is a canadian citizen??



Boiler Up!!!
User currently offlineEWRCabincrew From United States of America, joined May 2006, 5523 posts, RR: 56
Reply 5, posted (7 years 5 months 1 week 4 days 13 hours ago) and read 4983 times:

Quoting Detroitflyer (Reply 4):
if he is a canadian citizen anyway why cant he just enter being the fact that he is a canadian citizen??

He can, he just needs to fill out the blue and white customs form and follow the appropriate signs. To enter the US, everyone needs a passport. Everyone.



You can't cure stupid
User currently offlinePhilb From Ireland, joined May 1999, 2915 posts, RR: 13
Reply 6, posted (7 years 5 months 1 week 4 days 13 hours ago) and read 4976 times:

As he is a Canadian citizen he just fills in the paperwork as a Canadian, presents his Canadian passport and doesn't mention his US citizenship. Simple and legal.

User currently offlineMilesDependent From Australia, joined Sep 2001, 856 posts, RR: 0
Reply 7, posted (7 years 5 months 1 week 4 days 10 hours ago) and read 4877 times:

Quoting Philb (Reply 6):
As he is a Canadian citizen he just fills in the paperwork as a Canadian, presents his Canadian passport and doesn't mention his US citizenship. Simple and legal.

Not good advice for the following reasons:
* You enter the US on a tourist 90 day visa
* If you do not depart the US on that same passport within this period, this will cause trouble with the INS

I have a friend who was a British citizen and then became an Australian citizen. He travelled overseas on his British passport. When re-entering Australia, again with his British passport, they refused him entry as he did not have a valid visa in his British passport. He had to go to great lengths to prove he was in fact Australian, and was then fined for travelling without a passport...


User currently offlinePhilb From Ireland, joined May 1999, 2915 posts, RR: 13
Reply 8, posted (7 years 5 months 1 week 4 days 10 hours ago) and read 4874 times:

Quoting MilesDependent (Reply 7):
Not good advice for the following reasons:
* You enter the US on a tourist 90 day visa
* If you do not depart the US on that same passport within this period, this will cause trouble with the INS

Are Canadians subject to the 90 day rule?


User currently offlineStar_world From Ireland, joined Jun 2001, 1234 posts, RR: 0
Reply 9, posted (7 years 5 months 1 week 4 days 9 hours ago) and read 4832 times:

Quoting Philb (Reply 8):
Are Canadians subject to the 90 day rule?

6 months for Canadian citizens, according to the following page:
http://www.amcits.com/canada.asp#canadians

(linked from the US Embassy in Canada website)

I agree with MilesDependent completely - the approach of using a Canadian passport in this case will not work. If you're a US citizen you have to enter the US as one.


User currently offlineCoal From United States of America, joined Aug 2006, 1993 posts, RR: 9
Reply 10, posted (7 years 5 months 1 week 4 days 9 hours ago) and read 4804 times:

Interesting question and one that arose during a conversation with a friend of mine. He naturalized but for business reasons has to travel one or two days after the oath ceremony. What are his options?

Cheers,
Coal



Nxt Flts: VA SYD-CBR-SYD | VA SYD-OOL-SYD | JQ SYD-MEL | VA MEL-CBR-SYD | DL SYD-LAX-ATL-MIA | B6 FLL-DCA-BOS | DL BOS-L
User currently offlinePhilb From Ireland, joined May 1999, 2915 posts, RR: 13
Reply 11, posted (7 years 5 months 1 week 4 days 8 hours ago) and read 4777 times:

Quoting Star_world (Reply 9):
I agree with MilesDependent completely - the approach of using a Canadian passport in this case will not work. If you're a US citizen you have to enter the US as one.

Well the logic would seem to be to enter using the Canadian passport and, in the 6 months available, apply for the US passport and, once obtained, leave the country showing the Canadian passport, and re-enter with the US passport.


User currently offlineStar_world From Ireland, joined Jun 2001, 1234 posts, RR: 0
Reply 12, posted (7 years 5 months 1 week 4 days 8 hours ago) and read 4764 times:

Quoting Philb (Reply 11):
Well the logic would seem to be to enter using the Canadian passport and, in the 6 months available, apply for the US passport and, once obtained, leave the country showing the Canadian passport, and re-enter with the US passport.

The logic is okay except I believe it's illegal to enter the US on that Canadian passport, if you are a US citizen. He may be lucky and not get caught, but with the highly unpredictable nature of US immigration / customs these days it's not a chance I would take at all.


User currently offlinePhilb From Ireland, joined May 1999, 2915 posts, RR: 13
Reply 13, posted (7 years 5 months 1 week 4 days 8 hours ago) and read 4749 times:

Given the happy, cheerful way Immigration and Customs treat all foreigners at US points of entry you are probably correct.

When I last used the Immigration Service which is available at Shannon for US bound passengers, just for the sake of being polite I asked the official where he was from and how he liked the Irish posting. His answer? "You do not need that information". Wow, what an impression to give a first time visitor. Fortunately for the reputation of the US it was my 20th visit but those guys are rarely even polite these days, compared to 15 years or so ago.


User currently offlineIAHFLYER From United States of America, joined Dec 2006, 319 posts, RR: 0
Reply 14, posted (7 years 5 months 1 week 4 days 7 hours ago) and read 4674 times:

Quoting Sflaflight (Thread starter):
Any opinion or experience welcome.

In Houston, there is a Emergency Passport Center, i.e. get a passport the same day, more expensive but great service!!



Little airports with the big jets are the best!! Floyd
User currently offlineLuv2fly From United States of America, joined May 2003, 12090 posts, RR: 49
Reply 15, posted (7 years 5 months 1 week 4 days 5 hours ago) and read 4575 times:

Quoting Philb (Reply 13):
When I last used the Immigration Service which is available at Shannon for US bound passengers, just for the sake of being polite I asked the official where he was from and how he liked the Irish posting. His answer? "You do not need that information". Wow, what an impression to give a first time visitor. Fortunately for the reputation of the US it was my 20th visit but those guys are rarely even polite these days, compared to 15 years or so ago.

For whatever reason I find these out station Immigration locations to be far worse then the ones located in the USA.



You can cut the irony with a knife
User currently offlineLegacyins From United States of America, joined Aug 2003, 2054 posts, RR: 0
Reply 16, posted (7 years 5 months 1 week 4 days 2 hours ago) and read 4456 times:

Quoting Philb (Reply 6):
As he is a Canadian citizen he just fills in the paperwork as a Canadian, presents his Canadian passport and doesn't mention his US citizenship. Simple and legal.

True but (2) problems

1) The officer will ask him the purpose of his entry to the US? Is he going to lie and say he is only a visitor or in transit?
2) If he is admitted as a Canadian citizen, he will be admitted for 6 mths. What happens if he does not leave after 6 mths, he will be an overstay with an Immigration violation. On subsequent trips , even if he has that US passport, he will still have that overstay record prompting a Secondary Inspection. Now, for those of you whoever been to a Secondary office, it can be unpleasant and time consuming. Do you really want to put him in that situation?

Quoting Philb (Reply 8):
Are Canadians subject to the 90 day rule?

No, Canada is not a Visa Waiver Country. They are exempt certain Non-Immigrant Visas, except K,E, and V classifications.

Best advice, US citizens can make an appointment at their local Passport Office and for a higher fee, can expedite their application process.



John@SFO
User currently offlinePhilb From Ireland, joined May 1999, 2915 posts, RR: 13
Reply 17, posted (7 years 5 months 1 week 4 days 2 hours ago) and read 4450 times:

Just another thought on this. As he has applied for and received US citizenship he must have some form of residency documentation to overcome the 6th month rule so why can't he just continue as he would have done before he received his citizenship?

User currently offlineAnalog From United States of America, joined Jul 2006, 1900 posts, RR: 1
Reply 18, posted (7 years 5 months 1 week 4 days 1 hour ago) and read 4417 times:

Quoting Coal (Reply 10):
Interesting question and one that arose during a conversation with a friend of mine. He naturalized but for business reasons has to travel one or two days after the oath ceremony. What are his options?

Reschedule the trip? Seriously. You can get quick passport service (24-48 hours), but I don't know if you can get an appt. w/o being a citizen (probably can, but that's a guess). I also don't know how fast it goes w/o an old passport.


User currently offlineLt-AWACS From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 19, posted (7 years 5 months 1 week 4 days 1 hour ago) and read 4399 times:

Quoting EWRCabincrew (Reply 5):
To enter the US, everyone needs a passport. Everyone.

Sidenote- Active duty US Military personnel do not need one to leave or enter the USA (even though many like myself have two passports tourist and official). Your ID and orders, either leave orders or posting orders, will suffice, even now after the new rule.

Ciao, and Hook 'em Horns
Capt-AWACS, Hermano bebe, que la vida es breve


User currently offlineAnalog From United States of America, joined Jul 2006, 1900 posts, RR: 1
Reply 20, posted (7 years 5 months 1 week 4 days ago) and read 4349 times:

Quoting Lt-AWACS (Reply 19):

Sidenote- Active duty US Military personnel do not need one to leave or enter the USA (even though many like myself have two passports tourist and official). Your ID and orders, either leave orders or posting orders, will suffice, even now after the new rule.

Expanding the sidenote: Does that work for entry to all countries? Basically does the US ever send military personnel, on official duty, using commercial transport, to countries where the SOFA does not permit entry with ID & orders?


User currently offlineRobsawatsky From Canada, joined Dec 2003, 597 posts, RR: 0
Reply 21, posted (7 years 5 months 1 week 4 days ago) and read 4329 times:

Quoting Legacyins (Reply 16):
2) If he is admitted as a Canadian citizen, he will be admitted for 6 mths. What happens if he does not leave after 6 mths, he will be an overstay with an Immigration violation. On subsequent trips , even if he has that US passport, he will still have that overstay record prompting a Secondary Inspection. Now, for those of you whoever been to a Secondary office, it can be unpleasant and time consuming. Do you really want to put him in that situation?

I do not believe the US departure controls are broad or sufficient enough to flag an overstay by a Canadian that did not require a visa to enter. For example, there is the possibility of many air or ship entries into the USA by a Canadian and departure by land where there is no exit control whatsoever. No overstay record is likely to exist in this case.

Do you not think a simple explanation that a US replacement passport has not yet been received along with proper residency documents would be acceptable?


User currently offlineCubsrule From United States of America, joined May 2004, 22726 posts, RR: 20
Reply 22, posted (7 years 5 months 1 week 4 days ago) and read 4315 times:

Quoting Philb (Reply 13):
When I last used the Immigration Service which is available at Shannon for US bound passengers, just for the sake of being polite I asked the official where he was from and how he liked the Irish posting. His answer? "You do not need that information". Wow, what an impression to give a first time visitor. Fortunately for the reputation of the US it was my 20th visit but those guys are rarely even polite these days, compared to 15 years or so ago.

I can't speak for Ireland, but the folks in Canada are generally pretty nice.

FWIW, I've run in to some real nice CBP folks in the U.S. too, especially at ATL.



I can't decide whether I miss the tulip or the bowling shoe more
User currently offlineViscount724 From Switzerland, joined Oct 2006, 24868 posts, RR: 22
Reply 23, posted (7 years 5 months 1 week 4 days ago) and read 4304 times:

Quoting Legacyins (Reply 16):
2) If he is admitted as a Canadian citizen, he will be admitted for 6 mths. What happens if he does not leave after 6 mths, he will be an overstay with an Immigration violation. On subsequent trips , even if he has that US passport, he will still have that overstay record prompting a Secondary Inspection. Now, for those of you whoever been to a Secondary office, it can be unpleasant and time consuming. Do you really want to put him in that situation?



Quoting Robsawatsky (Reply 21):
I do not believe the US departure controls are broad or sufficient enough to flag an overstay by a Canadian that did not require a visa to enter. For example, there is the possibility of many air or ship entries into the USA by a Canadian and departure by land where there is no exit control whatsoever. No overstay record is likely to exist in this case.

Agree, I don't know how the US enforces the 6-month stay limit for Canadians since there are no departure controls from the US. The only immigration people you encounter on a flight from the US to Canada are the Canadian inspectors on arrival in Canada. And Canadians arriving in the US by air only fill out the customs form, not the I-94, so there's nothing to turn in to the airline on departure. It's basically the honor system for Canadians as far as I can tell.


User currently offlineLt-AWACS From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 24, posted (7 years 5 months 1 week 4 days ago) and read 4285 times:

Quoting Analog (Reply 20):
Expanding the sidenote: Does that work for entry to all countries? Basically does the US ever send military personnel, on official duty, using commercial transport, to countries where the SOFA does not permit entry with ID & orders?

Sometimes. For example, I did both Argentina and Chile on my official passport with a Visa (had to have the Visa). Ditto, Manta in Ecuador. I've done Kuwait, Saudi Arabia, all of NATO, Bahrain, and Curacao without a passport check (though I normally carry both anyway).

To Enter the US all you need is the active ID and leave/movement orders, to enter some countries you still need a visa or sofa stamp. Here in Europe I need NATO orders and NATO id outside Germany or there can be stiff fines, but a passport is not required. Families must have a no-fee passport and SOFA stamp.

Ciao and Hook 'em Horns,
Capt-AWACS, Life is not a Parker Posey movie

[Edited 2007-02-19 22:42:30]

25 Sflaflight : Thanks to all who answer. I know noone can tell for sure what each INS agent will say, but some important questions and points were brought up. I was
26 ChinaClipper40 : I don't know what is available in the Miami area, but I absolutely know (from personal experience) that the Stamford, Connecticut passport office can
27 Baron52ta : I have been in the similar situation as Starflight but I went to Paris France and even though I had the papers to say I was legal to live in the US my
28 Viscount724 : I believe that is generally true for almost all countries. If you hold dual citizenship (for countries that permit it...many don't) and are arriving
29 Post contains links Legacyins : You do not need to worry about having a valid US passport if traveling across the Northern/Southern Boarders by land or sea. A valid passport is only
30 ACFA : Since US has no exit controls, how would the INS have any knowledge of departure?
31 ACFA : You are correct. Airlines are responsible for the people they bring into the country and can recieve stiff fines from Customs authorities, as well th
32 Goaliemn : Canada does share the information with US customs. A friend of mine got burned on that once. He left after 10 months, then his next re-entry, they ha
33 ACFA : Good point! Hadn't thought of that one.
34 BigOrange : Not that simple and certainly not that legal! Logic doesn't work in the US as far as USCIS goes! Travel on his green card would be the easiest option
Top Of Page
Forum Index

This topic is archived and can not be replied to any more.

Printer friendly format

Similar topics:More similar topics...
Austin's Old And New Airports, Question? posted Sun Apr 4 2004 17:58:13 by United4everDEN
SAN-TIJ Shuttle And New Flight To Cabo posted Tue Jan 9 2007 00:44:00 by Marcus
USAirways And New Haven, CT (KHVN) Probs Yest posted Wed Dec 27 2006 15:05:06 by Micstatic
SAA News Re: Staff Retrenchments And New Routes posted Thu Nov 30 2006 12:42:51 by SA-JET
New Passport Requirements For Entry The U.S. posted Thu Nov 16 2006 13:53:34 by TACAA320
American Airlines And New Planes? posted Sat Oct 21 2006 17:04:51 by TacSupport1
First 777 And New Paint For Taag Angola posted Thu Aug 31 2006 03:46:25 by Clickhappy
YYZ And New International Routes posted Mon Aug 7 2006 02:54:57 by GoBlue
DL ATL-PSP, And AS SJC-PSP Question posted Thu Aug 3 2006 21:30:02 by COERJ145
New Airlines And New Aircraft - 3 Photos posted Wed Jul 5 2006 05:45:25 by Fallingeese