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SQ To EWR: Why? Any Good Connections?  
User currently offlineCoal From United States of America, joined Aug 2006, 2006 posts, RR: 9
Posted (7 years 5 months 2 weeks 1 day 9 hours ago) and read 4499 times:

I'm sure this has come up before in the past, but it still baffles me that SQ fly the non-stop A345 flight into EWR and not JFK. As a *A member, the only connecting options to South Florida are via IAD or CLT. So what's the logic behind this? Do they have a codeshare on a non-*A carrier to MIA or FLL?

Cheers,
Coal


Nxt Flts: VA SYD-CBR-SYD | VA SYD-OOL-SYD | JQ SYD-MEL | VA MEL-CBR-SYD | DL SYD-LAX-ATL-MIA | B6 FLL-DCA-BOS | DL BOS-L
35 replies: All unread, showing first 25:
 
User currently onlineMir From United States of America, joined Jan 2004, 21530 posts, RR: 55
Reply 1, posted (7 years 5 months 2 weeks 1 day 8 hours ago) and read 4428 times:

Their connection possibilities wouldn't be so good in JFK either. *A has very little presence in NYC.

IIRC, EWR has the advantage of being closer to several corporate headquarters and business centers in New Jersey.

-Mir



7 billion, one nation, imagination...it's a beautiful day
User currently offlineStylo777 From Germany, joined Feb 2006, 2955 posts, RR: 12
Reply 2, posted (7 years 5 months 2 weeks 1 day 8 hours ago) and read 4425 times:

they already fly to JFK via FRA and want to keep that flight because of the high yields and the good business. So they opt to fly non-stop to EWR, which is an alternative for passengers who want to travel just to NYC. EWR is closer to the city.

User currently offlineHumberside From United Kingdom, joined Dec 2005, 4917 posts, RR: 4
Reply 3, posted (7 years 5 months 2 weeks 1 day 8 hours ago) and read 4372 times:

Star has even worse domestic connections at JFK than at EWR

UA

IAD/LAX/SFO - both airports
ORD/DEN - only EWR

US

PHX/LAS/CLT - both airports
PIT/PHL - EWR only

[Edited 2007-02-19 14:59:51]


Visit the Air Humberside Website and Forum
User currently offlineDiscoverCSG From United States of America, joined Jan 2007, 830 posts, RR: 0
Reply 4, posted (7 years 5 months 2 weeks 1 day 7 hours ago) and read 4234 times:

Quoting Stylo777 (Reply 2):
EWR is closer to the city.

How can that be the case? JFK is in the city!!


User currently offlineAirbazar From United States of America, joined Sep 2003, 8241 posts, RR: 10
Reply 5, posted (7 years 5 months 2 weeks 1 day 6 hours ago) and read 4222 times:

Quoting DiscoverCSG (Reply 4):
How can that be the case? JFK is in the city!!

I think that by city he means Manhattan. EWR is closer to Manhattan than JFK.


User currently offlineRayChuang From United States of America, joined Jun 2000, 7993 posts, RR: 5
Reply 6, posted (7 years 5 months 2 weeks 1 day 6 hours ago) and read 4198 times:

Also, EWR actually has better train connections into Manhattan than from JFK. You can ride NJ Transit trains nonstop into Penn Station in Manhattan. From JFK, you ride the AirTrain to either the Howard Beach subway station or the Jamaica LIRR station, then transfer to another train to get into Manhattan.

User currently offlineDesertJets From United States of America, joined Feb 2000, 7762 posts, RR: 16
Reply 7, posted (7 years 5 months 2 weeks 1 day 6 hours ago) and read 4177 times:

Quoting RayChuang (Reply 6):
EWR actually has better train connections into Manhattan than from JFK.

As much as we talk about how EWR has better rail connections vs. JFK... how many pax flying in on SQ from Singapore are actually taking the train into Manhattan. I would like to think if they can afford (or their company's travel department) the airfare, they are going to pony up the money for a car service into the city.

But anyways the non-stop SIN-EWR is aimed heavily at the O&D market. The 1-stoppers to LAX or SFO would be more likely choices if you needed to make a domestic *A connection.



Stop drop and roll will not save you in hell. --- seen on a church marque in rural Virginia
User currently offlineLTBEWR From United States of America, joined Jan 2004, 13043 posts, RR: 12
Reply 8, posted (7 years 5 months 2 weeks 1 day 6 hours ago) and read 4149 times:

Domestic (USA) airline connections are a lot better at EWR vs. JFK, especially as EWR is CO's hub. Several other airlines along with CO also offer direct or non-stop service on their mainline or short haul subs to major and a number of smaller cities throughout North America, especially in the Eastern USA. It would be interesting to find out how many of pax on SQ's EWR-SIN service used connecting flights for it.

User currently offlineJM017 From Jamaica, joined Jun 2002, 1227 posts, RR: 1
Reply 9, posted (7 years 5 months 2 weeks 1 day 6 hours ago) and read 4062 times:

Quoting RayChuang (Reply 6):
Also, EWR actually has better train connections into Manhattan than from JFK. You can ride NJ Transit trains nonstop into Penn Station in Manhattan.

The convenience is about the same, if not slightly in JFK's favor. If you take the AirTrain from either airport, you have to transfer once. From EWR, you transfer to NJT and from JFK, you transfer to the LIRR. NJT makes a maximum of three stops (and about 28 minutes) from there to Penn Station. The LIRR (which runs more) makes a maximum of four stop to Penn Station (taking 21 minutes or so). Not a big difference if you ask me. I am not sure where this misconception of EWR's connection being more convenient comes from but it is simply not true.



"It's okay to cheat, if you just really don't like to lose."
User currently offlineDutchjet From Netherlands, joined Oct 2000, 7864 posts, RR: 57
Reply 10, posted (7 years 5 months 2 weeks 1 day 5 hours ago) and read 4056 times:

Its NOT all about connections.........there is something called O&D traffic which is the best yeilding and most interesting type of airtravel than an airline can offer. SIN-EWR is offered mainly because of O&D traffic and connections are not a big issue on the EWR side of the segment; SQ can offer some connections out of its SIN hub to regional cities, but this flight was introduced, works and will succeed or fail based upon passengers travelling between SIN and NYC. Dont forget that NYC is the financial capital of the US (if not the World), dont foreget that NYC is a key business and leisure destination, dont forget that NYC is the traditional gateway to the US. Newark is a good airport and is very conveneient for pax going to/from Manahattan......EWR is closer to the Wall Street Financial District that JFK and it part of the attraction.

Why did the SQ nonstop flight end up at EWR? SQ did fly EWR-AMS-SIN with a 744 for many years....the flight operated 3 or 4 times per week and was not a great success: non-daily flights generally do not appeal to biz travellers and the loads/yeilds on the EWR-AMS segment were horrible (SQ tried to keep the Y cabin filled by offering super bargain fares out of AMS to EWR.) SQ also offered daily JFK-FRA-SIN service with a 744 and that flight is a success. Thus, when the A345 and the nonstop service was introduced, SQ did not want to drop the JFK-FRA-SIN flight and was more than happy to drop the EWR-AMS-SIN route......in order to maintain service to both airports, JFK kept the one stop 744 and EWR got the new daily nonstop A345.


User currently offlineSTT757 From United States of America, joined Mar 2000, 16829 posts, RR: 51
Reply 11, posted (7 years 5 months 2 weeks 1 day 5 hours ago) and read 4054 times:

Quoting JM017 (Reply 9):
NJT makes a maximum of three stops (and about 28 minutes) from there to Penn Station.

There are only two stops between Newark Airport and NY Penn (Newark Penn, Secaucus transfer), all trains stop at Newark Penn only about half stop at Secaucus Jct.

1/2 the NJ Transit make one stop, the other half make 2 stops.

Amtrak makes only one stop, I've taken Amtrak from NY Penn to Newark Airport a couple of times and from NY Penn to the Airtrain at EWR was 19 minutes.



Eastern Air lines flt # 701, EWR-MCO Boeing 757
User currently offlineNycfly75 From Italy, joined Aug 2005, 754 posts, RR: 10
Reply 12, posted (7 years 5 months 2 weeks 1 day 5 hours ago) and read 3999 times:

Quoting Dutchjet (Reply 10):
.EWR is closer to the Wall Street Financial District that JFK and it part of the attraction.

If and when the rail connection is built between JFK and downtown Manhattan, the dynamics may change a little and JFK will be and even more attractive option than EWR.


User currently offlineDutchjet From Netherlands, joined Oct 2000, 7864 posts, RR: 57
Reply 13, posted (7 years 5 months 2 weeks 1 day 5 hours ago) and read 3986 times:

Quoting Nycfly75 (Reply 12):

If and when the rail connection is built between JFK and downtown Manhattan, the dynamics may change a little and JFK will be and even more attractive option than EWR.

Fine....please lets not do the EWR vs JFK thing for the hundreth time.


User currently offlineSTT757 From United States of America, joined Mar 2000, 16829 posts, RR: 51
Reply 14, posted (7 years 5 months 2 weeks 1 day 5 hours ago) and read 3977 times:

Quoting Nycfly75 (Reply 12):
If and when the rail connection is built between JFK and downtown Manhattan, the dynamics may change a little and JFK will be and even more attractive option than EWR.

The JFK-Lower Manhattan rail link has as much chance if not less than the PATH extension to EWR, the PATH Extension on the World Trade Center line to EWR is estimated to cost $550 Million. The JFK-Lower Manhattan rail link is estimated to cost $7 Billion, that's a tremendous difference.

The PATH line ends 1.5 miles from the Newark Airport rail link station, they just need to continue the tracks 1.5 miles along the NEC and expand the Airtrain station. For the JFK rail link they need to tunnel underneath Downtown Brooklyn, the East River and convert the entire Atlantic Avenue Branch to Airtrain standards. The complexity and cost of the two projects are great, yet the end result would be the same (rail access from Lower Manhattan to an airport).

Since the Port Authority is a bi-State agency NJ and NY have equal control, the PATH extension is not happening without NY approving and the JFK-Lower Manhattan project is not happening without NJ support, so the likely outcome is both or neither projects will be built.



Eastern Air lines flt # 701, EWR-MCO Boeing 757
User currently offlineStylo777 From Germany, joined Feb 2006, 2955 posts, RR: 12
Reply 15, posted (7 years 5 months 2 weeks 1 day 4 hours ago) and read 3908 times:

I know that FRA-JFK is almost full every day as well as the two times daily FRA-SIN flights of SQ. But what about the SIN-EWR? How high are the loads here?


.... and please stop debating about railway connex JFK vs. EWR...


User currently offlineZRH From Switzerland, joined Nov 1999, 5566 posts, RR: 36
Reply 16, posted (7 years 5 months 2 weeks 1 day 4 hours ago) and read 3860 times:

Quoting JM017 (Reply 9):
The convenience is about the same, if not slightly in JFK's favor. If you take the AirTrain from either airport, you have to transfer once. From EWR, you transfer to NJT and from JFK, you transfer to the LIRR. NJT makes a maximum of three stops (and about 28 minutes) from there to Penn Station. The LIRR (which runs more) makes a maximum of four stop to Penn Station (taking 21 minutes or so). Not a big difference if you ask me. I am not sure where this misconception of EWR's connection being more convenient comes from but it is simply not true.

I agree. And if you take a taxi JFK is better and cheaper.


User currently offlineRoseFlyer From United States of America, joined Feb 2004, 9511 posts, RR: 52
Reply 17, posted (7 years 5 months 2 weeks 1 day 3 hours ago) and read 3754 times:

I have flown this route and yes it is significantly based on O/D. A key thing not to forget is that SQ has a very low capacity on the A345. At just abot 180 seats, the A345 has about the same number of seats as a 757. That isn't that many. They are expensive seats and are not to be diluted by lower yielding connecting traffic. In general connecting traffic is lower yielding since if you are willing to make a stop, there are so many more choices and competing airlines.

However I flew this route on a connection. I flew UA ORD-EWR to connect to EWR-SIN and was not the only one to do that. Trip reports:
SQ/UA SIN-EWR-ORD Raffles Class (stranded In EWR) (by RoseFlyer Oct 24 2005 in Trip Reports)
United/Singapore ORD-EWR-SIN In Raffles Class (by RoseFlyer Oct 17 2005 in Trip Reports)



If you have never designed an airplane part before, let the real designers do the work!
User currently offlineStuckInCA From United States of America, joined Oct 2005, 1951 posts, RR: 0
Reply 18, posted (7 years 5 months 2 weeks 1 day 3 hours ago) and read 3734 times:

Quoting DesertJets (Reply 7):
how many pax flying in on SQ from Singapore are actually taking the train into Manhattan. I would like to think if they can afford (or their company's travel department) the airfare, they are going to pony up the money for a car service into the city.

This seems like a strange conclusion to me. My former company put employees on this flight on occasion and would probably balk at a car service unless several people were sharing.


User currently offlineBlueFlyer From United States of America, joined Jan 2006, 3945 posts, RR: 2
Reply 19, posted (7 years 5 months 2 weeks 1 day 3 hours ago) and read 3713 times:
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Also not to be neglected is the CO effect. Even though SQ is not in alliance with CO, there are many companies (some large enough to have a dedicated check-in counter) who are so used to sending their employees to EWR wherever they need to go somewhere due to the CO hub that it is "natural" for them to think of EWR first and JFK second when having to travel somewhere CO doesn't go.

If CO didn't operate a hub at EWR, I'd be willing to bet we'd see a lot less flights from other international carriers as well.



I've got $h*t to do
User currently offlineN844AA From United States of America, joined Jul 2003, 1352 posts, RR: 1
Reply 20, posted (7 years 5 months 2 weeks 1 day 3 hours ago) and read 3700 times:

Quoting StuckInCA (Reply 18):
This seems like a strange conclusion to me. My former company put employees on this flight on occasion and would probably balk at a car service unless several people were sharing.

From EWR into Manhattan, a car service is actually a good bit cheaper than a taxi.



New airplanes, new employees, low fares, all touchy-feely ... all of them are losers. -Gordon Bethune
User currently offlineLAXdude1023 From India, joined Sep 2006, 7514 posts, RR: 24
Reply 21, posted (7 years 5 months 2 weeks 1 day 3 hours ago) and read 3686 times:

When I travel to NYC, I always use EWR because it is closer and more convenient to access Manhattan. I never fly to LGA or JFK.

SQ flies nonstop to both EWR and LAX. I think these flights target the O&D traffic for the most part. From what I have read, both the LAX-SIN and EWR-SIN fill up very well every day. I dont think SQ really markets to the connecting traffic. I would venture that the market that serves the most connections for SQ is SFO because of the realationship with UA. Followed by LAX with our smaller UA hub. I would bet the NYC flights rely the least on connections.



Stewed...Lewd...Crude...Irreverent...Belligerent
User currently offlineDutchjet From Netherlands, joined Oct 2000, 7864 posts, RR: 57
Reply 22, posted (7 years 5 months 2 weeks 1 day 2 hours ago) and read 3615 times:

Quoting Dutchjet (Reply 13):

Fine....please lets not do the EWR vs JFK thing for the hundreth time.



Quoting Stylo777 (Reply 15):
.... and please stop debating about railway connex JFK vs. EWR...

Seriously, the JFK vs EWR thing has been done so many times.......cant we all agree that NYC has two very good international airports and leave it at that?

-----------------------------

Quoting Stylo777 (Reply 15):
I know that FRA-JFK is almost full every day as well as the two times daily FRA-SIN flights of SQ. But what about the SIN-EWR? How high are the loads here?

From what I hear, loads are rather good on the SIN-EWR nonstop.....in both classes of service. Good, not great...and due to the low density configuration of the SQ A345s, there is speculation that good loads are not enough for the airline to make money on the route. SQ is probably breaking even on the route, nothing more. The same is true over at LAX.

Over the years, there has been a lot of talk about SQ replacing the A345s with the 772LRs. SQ had not yet made its move. Also note that SQ passed on its options for the 5 additional A345s that were part of the original A345 deal. One can only conclude that SQ is still evaluating the business case for ULH services and SQ is not yet convinced that the flights are money makers. Connecting SIN with the US with nonstop flights was a long-time goal at SQ - but thus far the financial performance of the ULH flights has been underwhelming. Is the issue the A345? Is the issue lack of demand? Is it simply that pax do not want to sit 15+ hours on an airplane nonstop? Its still unclear......but makes for a very intereating discussion.


User currently offline102IAHexpress From United States of America, joined Feb 2005, 1156 posts, RR: 3
Reply 23, posted (7 years 5 months 2 weeks 1 day 1 hour ago) and read 3528 times:

Quoting Dutchjet (Reply 22):
Seriously, the JFK vs EWR thing has been done so many times.......cant we all agree that NYC has two very good international airports and leave it at that?

I’m not sure how this discussion could be furthered without comparing JFK and EWR. As long as the conversation is civil and everyone is respectful towards the two airports, I could care less if it’s been discussed a billion times.


User currently onlineMir From United States of America, joined Jan 2004, 21530 posts, RR: 55
Reply 24, posted (7 years 5 months 2 weeks 1 day ago) and read 3424 times:

Quoting STT757 (Reply 11):
There are only two stops between Newark Airport and NY Penn (Newark Penn, Secaucus transfer), all trains stop at Newark Penn only about half stop at Secaucus Jct.

1/2 the NJ Transit make one stop, the other half make 2 stops.

Amtrak makes only one stop, I've taken Amtrak from NY Penn to Newark Airport a couple of times and from NY Penn to the Airtrain at EWR was 19 minutes.

LIRR is still more frequent and thus more convenient, despite the possibility of more stops. However, if you're going to someplace that's not the city and not Long Island, EWR has better connections than does JFK.

-Mir



7 billion, one nation, imagination...it's a beautiful day
25 STT757 : Plenty of folks use Amtrak to connect to flights at EWR, in an hour you can be in Philadelphia or Stamford
26 Flyswim : The LIRR option is also a little cheaper than EWR with airtrain, I believe. Subway is cheapest of all to JFK, if you have the extra hour+ time.
27 CXfirst : If I am in Singapore and I want to get to let's say ORD, IAH, etc. I would fly through LAX, as it would be better for connections. Who flys an 18 hour
28 Paneuropean : SQ introduced SIN- NYC to JFK through AMS before they switched it to EWR. Do you know what the yeilds were on the JFK AMS sector ? In addition, I rem
29 Jfk777 : It still surprises me they kept the JFK-FRA-SIN flight, with the odd times from FRA to JFK and JFK to FRA they have to do deals to sell the Atlantic p
30 Dutchjet : The initial routing was JFK-FRA-SIN (4 times per week) and JFK-BRU-SIN (3 times per week) back in the 1990s....I could be wrong, but I dont think tha
31 JM017 : Hence my use of the word MAXIMUM. A MAXIMUM of three stops. Anyway, that trip is LONGER than an LIRR train making local stops.
32 RoseFlyer : Actually that isn't an option. The SIN-LAX flight arrives too late in the day for connections to ORD or IAH from LAX unless you are willing to have a
33 JM017 : I always wondered about SQ operating nonstop from EWR. The reasons above do make sense. The JFK-FRA-SIN routing is profitable, and that's what counts.
34 STT757 : Daily. The quickest trip is Amtrak from EWR to NY Penn, I did it a couple of times and it was less than 20 minutes.
35 DeltAirlines : LIRR is indeed quicker than NJ Transit going to their respective airports...but only by about 3-4 minutes. The thing where the LIRR makes the differen
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