Sacamojus From United States of America, joined Dec 2006, 228 posts, RR: 1 Posted (5 years 3 months 4 days 9 hours ago) and read 10175 times:
My question is why does a 777 captain get paid more than a 737 captain? Doesn't the 737 captain have to perform more take offs and landings? I can understand getting paid more for senority, but is the really a big difference between flying a baby boeing and big boeing? Please feel free to include Airbus products into the mix.
Burnsie28 From United States of America, joined Aug 2004, 7218 posts, RR: 10 Reply 2, posted (5 years 3 months 4 days 9 hours ago) and read 10162 times:
Your responsible for more passengers.
"Some People Just Know How To Fly"- Best slogan ever, RIP NW 1926-2009
JetJeanes From United States of America, joined Oct 2004, 1403 posts, RR: 0 Reply 3, posted (5 years 3 months 4 days 9 hours ago) and read 10145 times:
Because theres less to do .. no thats the way it always has been work your way up from a smaller to a larger plane, but its experiance and primarley senority kicks in.... I believe if say a 747 captn goes back to say a 737 he is paid the max
that is allowed per hr in that aircraft.
EMBQA From United States of America, joined Oct 2003, 9177 posts, RR: 15 Reply 5, posted (5 years 3 months 4 days 8 hours ago) and read 10088 times:
Quoting JRadier (Reply 1): It's all about responsibility
Quoting Burnsie28 (Reply 2): Your responsible for more passengers
Mechanics don't get paid more if they are working on a 737 or a 777......!!!!! It's the same responsibility....if not more so.....!! They are resposable for the passengers and the crew.
"It's not the size of the dog in the fight, but the size of the fight in the dog"
EWRCabincrew From United States of America, joined May 2006, 5479 posts, RR: 59 Reply 7, posted (5 years 3 months 4 days 8 hours ago) and read 10068 times:
For pay rates, go here, click on the airlines listed or to the right under "airline profiles" to get other pay rate info. I googled pilot pay rates.
AvConsultant From United States of America, joined Feb 2006, 1360 posts, RR: 3 Reply 8, posted (5 years 3 months 4 days 8 hours ago) and read 10049 times:
Quoting EMBQA (Reply 5): Mechanics don't get paid more if they are working on a 737 or a 777......!!!!! It's the same responsibility....if not more so.....!! They are resposable for the passengers and the crew.
The IAM was not as convincing as ALPA. In the 70's, the IAM lost a Notice to Propose Rule Making (NPRM) to create an aircraft type certificates for mechanics. The economic results would have killed the industry.
FXramper From United States of America, joined Dec 2005, 6847 posts, RR: 98 Reply 11, posted (5 years 3 months 4 days 8 hours ago) and read 9943 times:
SEPilot From United States of America, joined Dec 2006, 5906 posts, RR: 39 Reply 12, posted (5 years 3 months 4 days 8 hours ago) and read 9866 times:
Quoting AvConsultant (Reply 8): The economic results would have killed the industry.
I have to take issue with that-the market would have adjusted. But it might have had unpleasant effects and led to non-union airlines (i.e.LCC's) emerging sooner and more powerfully driving out more legacy carriers sooner.
Quoting N328KF (Reply 10): Don't forget the prestige factor, or: "My schwanz is bigger than yours..."
You got it.
The problem with making things foolproof is that fools are so doggone ingenious...Dan Keebler
EWRCabincrew From United States of America, joined May 2006, 5479 posts, RR: 59 Reply 13, posted (5 years 3 months 4 days 7 hours ago) and read 9795 times:
Quoting FXramper (Reply 11): This website is okay for a rough estimate.
Dutchjet From Netherlands, joined Oct 2000, 7864 posts, RR: 61 Reply 14, posted (5 years 3 months 4 days 7 hours ago) and read 9781 times:
Quoting Sacamojus (Thread starter): My question is why does a 777 captain get paid more than a 737 captain?
Because size does matter......all kidding aside, it has to do with seniority and negotiated pay scales, and the fact that the most senior pilots fly the largest airliners.
EMBQA From United States of America, joined Oct 2003, 9177 posts, RR: 15 Reply 15, posted (5 years 3 months 4 days 7 hours ago) and read 9713 times:
Quoting FXramper (Reply 11): FX MD11 Capt with hire date of 1983 makes almost $300,000.
AA 757/767 Capt with hire date of 1979 makes $275,000.
How did you get those numbers..... My math is showing less then that. You know flight crews don't work the 2020 hour year we do... they work (fly) 1/2 that.
"It's not the size of the dog in the fight, but the size of the fight in the dog"
CitationJet From United States of America, joined Mar 2003, 2098 posts, RR: 4 Reply 16, posted (5 years 3 months 4 days 7 hours ago) and read 9713 times:
If it based on passengers a pilot is responsible for, then why do the cargo airlines have the higher salaries?
Tango-Bravo From United States of America, joined Jun 2001, 3702 posts, RR: 34 Reply 17, posted (5 years 3 months 4 days 7 hours ago) and read 9669 times:
Quoting JRadier (Reply 1): It's all about responsibility
As well as productivity, as in moving more pax (equals more revenue) an equal number of miles in the same amount of time as pilots of smaller aircraft. Surprised this was nowhere mentioned in any of the 16 previous replies.
Coleplane From United States of America, joined Jan 2007, 172 posts, RR: 0 Reply 19, posted (5 years 3 months 4 days 6 hours ago) and read 9563 times:
Quoting Sacamojus (Thread starter): My question is why does a 777 captain get paid more than a 737 captain?
More so than any other profession I can think of (other than maybe the captain of an ocean liner), a pilots responsibility escalates given a normal path of time, successful execution of piloting and administrative duties, and professional conduct. The salary of a 777 captain has been earned through years (and years) of advancements. These advancements have been awarded as the pilot a) generates hours of experience gradually on larger and more sophisticated aircraft that carry more passengers and 2) conducts him/herself in a professional manner in line with company policy. This experience equates to his/her company trusting in their ability to handled larger aircraft and greater liability (passengers, more expensive equipment). Captains of large aircraft can command high salaries as the liability has increased significantly. Airlines are willing to pay for this experience and trust that their customer and equipment will get from point A to B without incident.
Coleplane From United States of America, joined Jan 2007, 172 posts, RR: 0 Reply 21, posted (5 years 3 months 4 days 5 hours ago) and read 9470 times:
Quoting EMBQA (Reply 5): Mechanics don't get paid more if they are working on a 737 or a 777
You may not like my answer, but would have to answer this in the form of a question. Why didn't the mechanic pursue a career as a pilot? Does an airline mechanic - and I seriously don't know because I've never been one - get raises or bonuses if they, the company, or the division perform? Is there an opportunity for advancement and/or more pay in this field? If not, I'd consider another field. On the other hand, maybe they simply enjoy their profession.
Before lashing out at me, I sell further processed foods for a living and earn a modest income.
Quoting CitationJet (Reply 16): If it based on passengers a pilot is responsible for, then why do the cargo airlines have the higher salaries?
My guess is insurance. I know of no less than three prominant airlines who didn't make it after catastrophic accidents.
Jimbobjoe From United States of America, joined Oct 2001, 628 posts, RR: 0 Reply 22, posted (5 years 3 months 4 days 4 hours ago) and read 9328 times:
Quoting Tango-Bravo (Reply 17): As well as productivity, as in moving more pax (equals more revenue) an equal number of miles in the same amount of time as pilots of smaller aircraft. Surprised this was nowhere mentioned in any of the 16 previous replies.
Good point. This is how the acting unions respond to questions like "Why does really famous actor X get paid $12 million for acting in a movie that only required 20 days of his time?" Well, famous actor X's name will help the movie make $30 million in sales...and he deserves a solid percentage of that. (Or, alternatively, the actor always deserves a certain percentage of the movie's profits, and that escalates with how popular the movie is.)
In either event, I see the point that if the spread is based on seniority and seniority also dictates the size of aircraft one can fly, then it will appear that there is a correlation between the size of aircraft flown and the pay.
I wonder if this difference is observable in an area with a lot of new pilots and new airlines--like the middle east, or India. I suspect not so much.
Hell, even Continental has pared their pay rates down to wide body versus single aisle. Since that implies that a 777 pilot makes the same as a 762 pilot with the same seniority, the whole responsible for more passengers thing gets thrown out the window.
Baron95 From United States of America, joined May 2006, 1335 posts, RR: 10 Reply 23, posted (5 years 3 months 4 days 1 hour ago) and read 9159 times:
Guys. Come on. It is all about union rules. Pay has NOTHING to do with responsibility.
The pay scales of 777/747 captains was cut by about 1/3 at most major US airlines since 9/11. Does that mean that their responsibility is now 1/3 less? Does that mean that they are now 1/3 less capable? Of course not.
Airline captain salaries (in the US and many other places) are an artificially maintained, non-competitive, union-imposed quantity. It has NO bearing on economic productivity, liability, skill or responsibility.
Captains of 777 make more money then captains of 737s because that is what the unions negotiated/imposed. Simple as that.
Is there a value for a certain number of years of experience? Yes. Do you need more experience to fly international routes than domestice ones? Yes. Is it taken into account in Airlines pay scale? NO. Example: Airforce officer with 15 years/15,000 hrs of experience flying C-5s or KC-10s all over the world, leaves the service, joins Delta airlines. How does he start? By UNION RULES on the right seat of the smalest aircraft in the fleet. John Q. Public, recent ERAU graduate, 1,000 hrs of flight instructor, 2,000 hours flying checks at night (total 3 years) joins Delta. How does he start? Same thing. Right seat of smallest fleet type. How do they advance? Simply by number of years in the company (assuming they are both decent pilots and don't screw up any check rides, etc).
It is all about UNION rules/distortions to the market place.
Norcal773 From United States of America, joined Feb 2007, 1157 posts, RR: 15 Reply 24, posted (5 years 3 months 4 days 1 hour ago) and read 9142 times:
On the website provided above, anyone else notice Northwest has pay rates for 787 pilots in there? Interesting.
If you're going through hell, keep going
25 IPFreely: The website shows the hourly rate and the monthly "guarantee", in hours. Assuming it's correct and current, an AA 757 captain with 10 years experienc
26 Monteycarlos: I don't know about what anyone else has said as being factual or not, but I know that the way it works in many airlines is more to do with the flight
27 B6WNQX: If I am not misteaken, WN pays their pilots (whom all fly the 737's) some of the highest, if not the highest wages in the US. After most majors impos
28 ZKSUJ: I think it also has to do with seniority. I mean this in the sense that the most experienced guys seem to be on the bigger long haul aircraft. This pa
29 Monteycarlos: Well yes, but most senior pilots have the responsibility of being training and checking captains or even management pilots, senior base pilots and fl
30 Jayspilot: The math that works for me is to take the hourly rate multiply times .85 and then 100 for the annual pay. 140 per hour captain makes about $119,000 pe
31 EXAAUADL: it is a revenue thing: More revenue = more pay for pilots.
32 Bond007: That's the answer right there! An ERJ pilot has 'responsibility' for far more people and performs many more takeoffs/landings (the most critical func
33 Skyexramper: Unions is why. Airline would much rather just pay them nothing like a regional pilot.
34 BillReid: It has nothing to do with responsibility at all. A B777 pilot has just as much responsibility as a B717 pilot and technically if a pilot can fly a B71
35 C133: The historic justification has always been productivity. Revenue. Factor in responsibility if you want, but the word is productivity. WN alters the dy
36 Avallillo: Pilots, at least at most unionized airlines, are paid according to what is essentially a weight/speed formula, the origins of which date back to the i
37 Ultrapig: Yep I know its more responsiblity to fly a bigger rather than a smaller plane-but which is more difficult and which takes more skill-(I don't know I'm
38 HighFlyer9790: absolutely. most people assume its the opposite. union union union...
39 Airplanenut: Don't forget that cargo pilots are also more likely to be flying worse hours, as much of their movements are to a sort in the middle of the night, or
40 Scramjetter: Baron95 said it best, it's all about unions and bargaining power. I will add to that generic Corporate Culture, because useless top management also ge
41 AirWillie6475: I don't think it's responsibility, after all a Gulfstream pilot gets paid in some cases as much as a 747 captain for flying 2 or 3 people. It's all ab
42 AirWillie6475: No Fedex/UPS has the highest in the U.S and probably the world. A 2nd year FO at Fedex makes as much as a senior Jetblue captain for example, that's
43 Starlionblue: What most people are describing in this thread is a North American centric view. Much of the world is quite different. At many airlines, pay is not ba
44 LXA340: Nevertheless when an Airline has Airbus aircraft in their fleet eg. Lufthansa with Airbus A319/20/21 for shot haul and the A330 /340's for long haul,
46 Bucky707: A pilot flying an RJ does not have the same 'responsibility' for people as a long haul pilot flying a 767 or bigger. While he may carry as many peopl
47 Floridaflyboy: ABX Air (one of DHL's US carriers, and the former airline of Airborne Express) is right up there as well. In some cases they're higher than FedEx, I
48 DeltaJet757: Bigger plane=more people to transport safely. Sometimes the bigger planes are harder to fly or take more work to operate. (just my opinion, no need to
49 C133: Very clear and accurate explanation, Avallillo. I think a case could be made that the comuter crew flying 8 or 10 legs a day in all kinds of weather
50 Bond007: OK, I'll tell you again, but it has nothing to do with how much pilots get paid. The most crucial/risky/complex part of any flight is the landing, fo
51 2H4: In terms of crashes and fatalities, it's important to remember that potential victims are not limited to those on board the aircraft in question. Whe
52 Bucky707: no doubt, an RJ pilot is exposed to more take offs and landings than a 747 pilot. Still does not change the fact that at any one time, he only has 50
53 2H4: No, but you didn't address the other examples I provided. A runway incursion is a runway incursion. It doesn't matter whether an airliner nearing V1
54 Aviateur: This is a lame question. It's like asking why sports figures get paid more than schoolteachers. The answer is: because. Because the seniority system r
55 Bond007: Well, if you take my 'formula' of landings X pax in a given day, then no, he shouldn't be paid the same as a 747 pilot (unless he does 300-400 touch-
56 VEEREF: Works the same at non union carriers as well. Don't forget that those 200k+ salaries are already a thing of the past, representing a scant minority o
57 VEEREF: What airline is that? I was away for 424 hours just last month alone. But I got paid for 65.
58 Starlionblue: Not really. How are the lives of the people on the 777 more important than the lives of the people on the RJ? The pilot is responsible for not crashi
59 VEEREF: All of that happens in the US too. Senior pilots often bid into smaller equipment to stay closer to home. Seniority based equipment assignments are n
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