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Did Boeing Ever Consider A 757NG?  
User currently offlineJAM747 From United States of America, joined Feb 2005, 550 posts, RR: 1
Posted (7 years 5 months 2 weeks 15 hours ago) and read 4457 times:

Did Boeing ever consider a 757NG or update before they canceled the aircraft? Some airlines that have ordered the 737-900 or the A320 would probably have ordered the B757 especially if it was upgraded. Such a model if existed could have served a good niche till a Y1 derived replacement, as the 737-900 or A321 does not totally replace the 757. Boeing just announced a upgraded 767 LRF maybe a upgraded 757 could have sold relatively well as both a pass/cargo version. Does anyone have any insight or views on this?

20 replies: All unread, jump to last
 
User currently offlineAirFrnt From United States of America, joined Jul 2004, 2825 posts, RR: 42
Reply 1, posted (7 years 5 months 2 weeks 15 hours ago) and read 4437 times:

Quoting JAM747 (Thread starter):
Did Boeing ever consider a 757NG or update before they canceled the aircraft? Some airlines that have ordered the 737-900 or the A320 would probably have ordered the B757 especially if it was upgraded. Such a model if existed could have served a good niche till a Y1 derived replacement, as the 737-900 or A321 does not totally replace the 757. Boeing just announced a upgraded 767 LRF maybe a upgraded 757 could have sold relatively well as both a pass/cargo version. Does anyone have any insight or views on this?

The 757 was originally conceived to replace the 737 long term. It addressed a couple of key problems with the 737, most notably the very little clearance that the old 737s had. The 757 didn't really take off the way the 727 or 737 did, simply because the revitalized 737 did so well.


User currently offlineSEPilot From United States of America, joined Dec 2006, 6837 posts, RR: 46
Reply 2, posted (7 years 5 months 2 weeks 1 hour ago) and read 4038 times:

Quoting AirFrnt (Reply 1):
The 757 was originally conceived to replace the 737 long term.

I was always under the impression that the 757 was to replace the 727 (which it did.) It is much larger than the 737; did Boeing plan on abandoning the 100-150 seat market?



The problem with making things foolproof is that fools are so doggone ingenious...Dan Keebler
User currently offlinePC12Fan From United States of America, joined Jan 2007, 2424 posts, RR: 5
Reply 3, posted (7 years 5 months 2 weeks 1 hour ago) and read 4009 times:

Orginally, the 757 was designed/marketed to replace the 727. It just evolved, and became the incredible machine we all know.

The only thing close to 757NG was the study of the 757ER or LR. ER's actually exist. Anyway, the concept was to include aux tanks to the 757 made up of the -200 fuselage to the -200F wing. It had some interest, but never caught on. I'd bet serious money that if this option was available today, ther'd be a lot of takers.

 twocents 



Just when I think you've said the stupidest thing ever, you keep talkin'!
User currently offlineNW727251ADV From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 4, posted (7 years 5 months 2 weeks ago) and read 3881 times:

Quoting JAM747 (Thread starter):
Did Boeing ever consider a 757NG or update before they canceled the aircraft? Some airlines that have ordered the 737-900 or the A320 would probably have ordered the B757 especially if it was upgraded. Such a model if existed could have served a good niche till a Y1 derived replacement, as the 737-900 or A321 does not totally replace the 757. Boeing just announced a upgraded 767 LRF maybe a upgraded 757 could have sold relatively well as both a pass/cargo version. Does anyone have any insight or views on this?

Did you do your research before starting this thread? Most arilines simply weren't interested in an aircraft the size of the 757 anymore. The fact that the 757 my have been considered "somewhat" outdated, was never really the issue based on my knowledge.

And the 757 was designed as a replacement for the 727...not the 737.


User currently offlineN231YE From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 5, posted (7 years 5 months 2 weeks ago) and read 3844 times:

I wonder how well the 737-900 or A321 would have sold against the 757-100 (if Boeing would have chosen to develop it)?

User currently offlineSurfdog75 From United States of America, joined Nov 2005, 331 posts, RR: 0
Reply 6, posted (7 years 5 months 2 weeks ago) and read 3822 times:

Quoting NW727251ADV (Reply 4):
Did you do your research before starting this thread? Most arilines simply weren't interested in an aircraft the size of the 757 anymore. The fact that the 757 my have been considered "somewhat" outdated, was never really the issue based on my knowledge.

And the 757 was designed as a replacement for the 727...not the 737.

Why does he have to do research? This is a web board not the Encyclopedia Britannica. I thought it was a good question. No version of the 737 will ever really be able to replace the capabilities of the 757. So much is lost when you try to save money by stretching and shrinking a fuselage beyond a certain point. The 757 line wasn't given much of a chance in my opinion. We can probably thank SWA for the dumbed down version the 737NG ended up being. It still has a noisy cockpit, minimum engine clearance, and performance issues in versions other than the -700, which I guess is all they cared about.


User currently offlineSolnabo From Sweden, joined Jan 2008, 851 posts, RR: 2
Reply 7, posted (7 years 5 months 2 weeks ago) and read 3781 times:

Instead of the 757-300 Boeing should have build the -200LR/ER

 twocents 

Micke//  wave 



Airbus SAS - Love them both
User currently offlineAirbusA6 From United Kingdom, joined Apr 2005, 2011 posts, RR: 0
Reply 8, posted (7 years 5 months 1 week 6 days 20 hours ago) and read 3602 times:

Maybe if a NG 40k engine had been available, it would have driven the project? All the energy went into developing smaller engines for the 737/A320 or larger engines for the widebodies, leaving the PW2000 and RB211-535 relatively unchanged...


it's the bus to stansted (now renamed national express a4 to ruin my username)
User currently offlineMauilono From United States of America, joined Mar 2004, 46 posts, RR: 0
Reply 9, posted (7 years 5 months 1 week 6 days 13 hours ago) and read 3344 times:

Quoting Surfdog75 (Reply 6):
Why does he have to do research? This is a web board not the Encyclopedia Britannica. I thought it was a good question.

Thank You, my thoughts exactly.


User currently offlineValcory From United States of America, joined Dec 2006, 89 posts, RR: 0
Reply 10, posted (7 years 5 months 1 week 6 days 12 hours ago) and read 3303 times:

Quoting Surfdog75 (Reply 6):
We can probably thank SWA for the dumbed down version the 737NG ended up being.

I hear that the 737 NG was suppose to have EICAS but SWA was against it


User currently offlineHZ747300 From Hong Kong, joined Mar 2004, 1656 posts, RR: 1
Reply 11, posted (7 years 5 months 1 week 6 days 12 hours ago) and read 3263 times:
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Is there a notion at Boeing to start an aircraft to fill the narrowbody trans-Atlantic niche going forward? The question probably arises from most people seeing the increase in 757s across the Atlantic in some otherwise neglected markets. At some point the airlines probably would want to move to the fuel efficient NG aircraft on these routes too without dumping unnecessary capacity just to fill a route.

What type of benefits would a 787-technologied 757 have? Boeing would be able to amortize the cost of development of the 787 into the other models using the same technology--we call it cobbling in other lines of work. However, why re-invent the wheel...

I know Boeing did say that the pressure to develop a NNG 737 was not such a big issue because of the efficiencies already achieved with the NG. At that time, I believed the same would be true for the 757.



Keep on truckin'...
User currently offlineMir From United States of America, joined Jan 2004, 21530 posts, RR: 55
Reply 12, posted (7 years 5 months 1 week 6 days 11 hours ago) and read 3193 times:

Quoting N231YE (Reply 5):
I wonder how well the 737-900 or A321 would have sold against the 757-100 (if Boeing would have chosen to develop it)?

Probably very well - shrinks tend to be overweight versus stretches.

-Mir



7 billion, one nation, imagination...it's a beautiful day
User currently offlineSnaiks From Panama, joined Mar 2005, 216 posts, RR: 0
Reply 13, posted (7 years 5 months 1 week 6 days 11 hours ago) and read 3180 times:

Quoting Valcory (Reply 10):
I hear that the 737 NG was suppose to have EICAS but SWA was against it

Don't they have EICAS, if not why not? what are they using instead?


User currently offlineValcory From United States of America, joined Dec 2006, 89 posts, RR: 0
Reply 14, posted (7 years 5 months 1 week 6 days 6 hours ago) and read 3013 times:

Quoting Snaiks (Reply 13):
Don't they have EICAS, if not why not? what are they using instead?

No EICAS, rumor has it the launch customer for the NG did not want it .They are using annuciator light in conjunction with the system caution annunciator(aka the six pack,poor man eicas) How ever on the NG the center display unit does show start valve,low oil pressure,oil filter bypass so there is no annuciator lights for those. Also there is no T/R unlock annuciator light.The CDU uses a REV indication for the T/R.


User currently offlineCba From United States of America, joined Jul 2000, 4531 posts, RR: 3
Reply 15, posted (7 years 5 months 1 week 6 days 6 hours ago) and read 2978 times:

Quoting Surfdog75 (Reply 6):
We can probably thank SWA for the dumbed down version the 737NG ended up being. It still has a noisy cockpit, minimum engine clearance, and performance issues in versions other than the -700, which I guess is all they cared about.

What performance issues? CO flies the -700 -800 and -900ER transcon all the time without a problem!


User currently offlineScouseflyer From United Kingdom, joined Apr 2006, 3384 posts, RR: 9
Reply 16, posted (7 years 5 months 1 week 6 days 6 hours ago) and read 2979 times:

Hmmm so if they did an A340-600 on the 757 they could of produced an 80m long narrow body with a capacity for 400 people. Cool - I would of worried about the bending strains in the fuselage though!

User currently offlineAlbird87 From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 17, posted (7 years 5 months 1 week 6 days 6 hours ago) and read 2926 times:

Quoting AirFrnt (Reply 1):
The 757 was originally conceived to replace the 737 long term

the 757 was always designed to replace the old 727 which was designed as well for hot and high conditions. Also the 757 had great STOL performances like the 727s. The 737 was designed for more of the commuter aircraft and then the 757/767 were used to open up transcontinental/atlantic routes. It is a such a shame that the 757 went out due to the economics of the 737NG and also now with range and peformance imprivements then the 737 just became as good as what the 757 was built for.

If Boeing had released a new update in 1996 for the 757s (as well as launching the 300) so that they had longer range and improved burn (with winglets) then the 757 could still be in production as it might of opened up the transatlantic services with them earlier. Also if Boeing just made the 737NG very similar to there origional 737s then this would not of killed the 757.


User currently offlineXT6Wagon From United States of America, joined Feb 2007, 3392 posts, RR: 4
Reply 18, posted (7 years 5 months 1 week 6 days 5 hours ago) and read 2871 times:

Quoting Surfdog75 (Reply 6):
We can probably thank SWA for the dumbed down version the 737NG ended up being. It still has a noisy cockpit, minimum engine clearance, and performance issues in versions other than the -700, which I guess is all they cared about

yes, clearly SWA knows nothing about aircraft and somehow made boeing go stupid suddenly. The 737NG is frankly an amazing plane. MASSIVE commonality with the old aircraft, so that a NG part might be heavier and overbuilt, but it will work on the old classic. This means massive savings in part inventories. Yet they made a jet that flys higher, faster, farther than the A320. Also my not-so in depth research seemed to indicate that the electronic cockpit was offered from day 1 on the 737NG. I guess if I care I can find out for sure from reliable sources.

If anything the silly bit was a unique wing for the 700 and 600 compared to the 800 and 900... with the 600 and 900 non-ER both being retarded designs. With the 20-20 hindsight goggles on, no 600, one wing for 700,800,900, and enough exit capacity for 215+ people in the 900 from the start would be a better game plan.

Oh and "performance issues other than the 700"... seems like they got it right with the 800. Nothing to tell as far as differences in the operating cost compared to the 700, yet.... hauls more revenue thanks to its larger size.

I'm betting that SWA's 'order' for the 737RS has "149Y in SWA seating density" written somewhere on it, thanks to the 800 being virtually the same cost to fly, time to get 12 extra seats for "free". More over I bet that every major manager associated or above the 737RS program has a copy of SWA's wish-list on the bookshelf. Its simple. They ALONE currently have 12.22% of the TOTAL production of 737NG, or over 1.5 times as much as the 2nd place NG owner Continental. Ryanair has a mere 50% of the 737NG planes SWA has... and they never had SWA's classic fleet.

What this means is, right or wrong SWA is right. THEY will decide what you will be flying come a decade from now in your short haul flights.


User currently offlineValcory From United States of America, joined Dec 2006, 89 posts, RR: 0
Reply 19, posted (7 years 5 months 1 week 6 days 3 hours ago) and read 2711 times:

Quoting Cba (Reply 15):
What performance issues? CO flies the -700 -800 and -900ER transcon all the time without a problem!

Co does not fly the 737-900ER as yet they have 24 on order they do fly the -700 -800 and -900


User currently offlineValcory From United States of America, joined Dec 2006, 89 posts, RR: 0
Reply 20, posted (7 years 5 months 1 week 6 days 2 hours ago) and read 2676 times:

I think what Surfdog 75 is saying if Delta or Untied was the launch customer for the 737 NG they would be a lot more bells and whistle etc

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