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Largest City Without An Airline Hub  
User currently offlineJetpixx From United States of America, joined Jul 2004, 857 posts, RR: 2
Posted (7 years 7 months 3 days 22 hours ago) and read 15871 times:

What is the largest city (in terms of population/catchment area, etc) in the United States and then also the world which is heavily served by multiple airlines, but does not have true hub? Here are a couple of the ideas which came to my mind for the United States, although I certainly could be wrong.

AUS
BDL
BNA
CMH
MSY
SAN
TPA

91 replies: All unread, showing first 25:
 
User currently offlineAS739X From United States of America, joined Apr 2003, 6144 posts, RR: 23
Reply 1, posted (7 years 7 months 3 days 22 hours ago) and read 15858 times:

BOSTON. Technically not a hub for any airline.

ASLAX



"Some pilots avoid storm cells and some play connect the dots!"
User currently offlineBimmerkid19 From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 2, posted (7 years 7 months 3 days 22 hours ago) and read 15831 times:

SIN for QF and a few European Airlines that have intra Southeast Asia flights from SIN and KUL (KLM)

User currently offlineFlyingfool From Netherlands, joined May 2005, 438 posts, RR: 2
Reply 3, posted (7 years 7 months 3 days 22 hours ago) and read 15827 times:

Quoting Bimmerkid19 (Reply 2):
SIN for QF and a few European Airlines that have intra Southeast Asia flights from SIN and KUL (KLM)

SIN is hub for Singapore Airlines and KUL for Malaysia Airlines...

Regards, Flyingfool


User currently offlineMaverick623 From United States of America, joined Nov 2006, 5648 posts, RR: 6
Reply 4, posted (7 years 7 months 3 days 22 hours ago) and read 15831 times:

I would go with BOS myself.


"PHX is Phoenix, PDX is the other city" -777Way
User currently offlineCXfirst From Norway, joined Jan 2007, 3068 posts, RR: 1
Reply 5, posted (7 years 7 months 3 days 22 hours ago) and read 15811 times:

Quoting Bimmerkid19 (Reply 2):
SIN for QF and a few European Airlines that have intra Southeast Asia flights from SIN and KUL (KLM)

I think you misunderstood the question.

What is the largest city to not be a hub to any airline?

-CXfirst



From Norway, live in Australia
User currently offlineEI A330-200 From Sweden, joined Apr 2001, 409 posts, RR: 4
Reply 6, posted (7 years 7 months 3 days 21 hours ago) and read 15763 times:

The correct answer would have to be LAX. The 2 most populous counties in the country use LAX. It's a focus city for DL, AA, UA, and WN, but non of them have made it a hub. The SoCal metro area is one of the most populous.

Brian



Long live Aer Lingus, the Flying Shamrock!
User currently offlineTransWorldSTL From United States of America, joined Mar 2006, 568 posts, RR: 1
Reply 7, posted (7 years 7 months 3 days 21 hours ago) and read 15733 times:

Quoting EI A330-200 (Reply 6):
The correct answer would have to be LAX.

This is the conclusion that A.Net has come to everytime this thread pops up (once a month, round a bout)

Largest US City That Is Not A Hub (by Styles Aug 3 2003 in Civil Aviation)


User currently offlineTYCOON From United States of America, joined Feb 2007, 394 posts, RR: 3
Reply 8, posted (7 years 7 months 3 days 20 hours ago) and read 15565 times:

Definitely LAX, not really a hub for anyone, just a lot of O&D flights.

User currently offlineStylo777 From Germany, joined Feb 2006, 2976 posts, RR: 12
Reply 9, posted (7 years 7 months 3 days 18 hours ago) and read 15393 times:

LAX for sure is the largest... but what about Berlin/TXL?

User currently offlinePelican From Germany, joined Apr 2004, 2531 posts, RR: 7
Reply 10, posted (7 years 7 months 3 days 18 hours ago) and read 15392 times:

Quoting Stylo777 (Reply 9):
but what about Berlin/TXL?

Berlin could be the biggest city in Europe without a hub.

pelican


User currently offlineDAL767400ER From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 11, posted (7 years 7 months 3 days 18 hours ago) and read 15320 times:

Quoting Pelican (Reply 10):
Berlin could be the biggest city in Europe without a hub.

It most certainly is, at least as far as the city itself goes Berlin is the second largest in Europe after London. Not sure what position they hold as far as entire Metro areas go, though Berlin should still be in front, behind the whole Ruhr area MSA.
Interestingly enough, the second place is hold by Hamburg. Most larger cities in Europe are hub cities for their repective carriers, and I believe outside of Germany and the UK, there are no 1,000,000+ cities in the EU that aren't airline hubs.


User currently offlineHardiwv From Brazil, joined Oct 2004, 8780 posts, RR: 49
Reply 12, posted (7 years 7 months 3 days 17 hours ago) and read 15215 times:

In South America GIG is not a hub for any airline, while the two biggest cities in the region have hubs MEX and GRU respectively.

Rgs,


User currently offlineIndy From United States of America, joined Jan 2005, 4567 posts, RR: 18
Reply 13, posted (7 years 7 months 3 days 17 hours ago) and read 15189 times:

Quoting Jetpixx (Thread starter):
AUS
BDL
BNA
CMH
MSY
SAN
TPA

IND isn't a hub for anyone.



Indy = Indianapolis and not Independence Air
User currently offlineTYCOON From United States of America, joined Feb 2007, 394 posts, RR: 3
Reply 14, posted (7 years 7 months 3 days 17 hours ago) and read 15147 times:

Might be a bit nit-picky, but what is our definition of a hub?
Air Berlin and Germanwings certainly use Berlin as a base of operations/hub (I won't bother counting Easyjet but they do have quite the operation based in Berlin too)
Tuifly (ex. HLX) use Hamburg as a base/hub
And, technically, the new Brazilian LCC Webjet has GIG as its hub.
Are we talking flag-carriers or major operators?


User currently offlineIncitatus From Brazil, joined Feb 2005, 4015 posts, RR: 13
Reply 15, posted (7 years 7 months 3 days 16 hours ago) and read 15002 times:

Quoting TYCOON (Reply 14):
Might be a bit nit-picky, but what is our definition of a hub?

A hub is an airport where an airline maintains a large presence AND it schedules flights in a way that there are many passengers that land there just to change airplanes.

An airport that is a crew/maintenance base is not a hub, even if the airline chooses to call it so.

I fail to see how Webjet Brazil would have a hub in GIG. They don't even have enough airplanes to have a hub anywhere.

The absolute right answer is LAX even though United Airlines calls it one of its hubs. The vast majority of United's passengers at LAX are local.

An airline scheduling 40 well timed flights at an airport may have it as a hub. Another airline scheduling 200 flights at an airport catering to local traffic without regard for convenient connections does not have it as a hub. I don't regard TAM's operation at GRU as a hub because the flight schedule is not convenient for connections.



Stop pop up ads
User currently offlineBigGSFO From United States of America, joined Jun 2005, 2924 posts, RR: 6
Reply 16, posted (7 years 7 months 3 days 16 hours ago) and read 14986 times:

Quoting Incitatus (Reply 15):
The absolute right answer is LAX even though United Airlines calls it one of its hubs. The vast majority of United's passengers at LAX are local.

Nonetheless, UA calls LAX a hub, thus, it is a hub.

There isn't a true definition of what a hub actually is, so we usually have to defer to what the airline refers to as a hub.


User currently offlineN766UA From United States of America, joined Jul 1999, 8269 posts, RR: 23
Reply 17, posted (7 years 7 months 3 days 16 hours ago) and read 14975 times:

LAX is a United hub, officially. So that's out. BOS is a focus city for AA, US, and DL, but nobody calls it a hub, so my vote goes to BOS.


This Website Censors Me
User currently offlineAAce24 From United States of America, joined Feb 2007, 849 posts, RR: 11
Reply 18, posted (7 years 7 months 3 days 16 hours ago) and read 14943 times:

We've had this discussion at least 20 or 30 times already.

It always ends up being an arguement between those who believe LAX is a hub and those who don't.


User currently offlineBigGSFO From United States of America, joined Jun 2005, 2924 posts, RR: 6
Reply 19, posted (7 years 7 months 3 days 16 hours ago) and read 14905 times:

Quoting AAce24 (Reply 18):
We've had this discussion at least 20 or 30 times already.

It always ends up being an arguement between those who believe LAX is a hub and those who don't.

AGREED. A "hub" is in the eye of the "beholder" (i.e. the airline). Thus LAX is a hub, plain and simple, as UA considers it as such.


User currently offlineAustinAirport From United States of America, joined Feb 2007, 643 posts, RR: 1
Reply 20, posted (7 years 7 months 3 days 15 hours ago) and read 14853 times:

Austin is a large city served by all the major airlines. However being within 200 miles of 2 large airports we get bypassed.


Whoever said you can do anything you set your mind to has obviously never tried to slam a revolving door!!!
User currently offlineXJET From United States of America, joined Feb 2007, 492 posts, RR: 2
Reply 21, posted (7 years 7 months 3 days 15 hours ago) and read 14799 times:

JAX is the most populated city in Florida. No hub there. It is a larger city than BOS. It is actually the third most populated city on the east coast.

User currently offlineN200WN From United States of America, joined Feb 2005, 784 posts, RR: 6
Reply 22, posted (7 years 7 months 3 days 15 hours ago) and read 14734 times:

Quoting XJET (Reply 21):
JAX is the most populated city in Florida. No hub there. It is a larger city than BOS. It is actually the third most populated city on the east coast.

Those kind of stats are always fun to throw around, just like El Paso is bigger than Atlanta and San Antonio is larger than Dallas. But metro area population figures are much more accurate and I think more fun to look at as they give you a better idea of how many people really live "there." San Antonio is now the seventh largest city in the country, but the problem is there just aren't that many of us living outside the city limits in the surrounding hills.


User currently offlineXJET From United States of America, joined Feb 2007, 492 posts, RR: 2
Reply 23, posted (7 years 7 months 3 days 15 hours ago) and read 14697 times:

Quoting N200WN (Reply 22):
But metro area population figures are much more accurate and I think more fun to look at as they give you a better idea of how many people really live "there."

Point taken. I was just throwing another city into the mix.


User currently offlineERJ170 From United States of America, joined Apr 2004, 6771 posts, RR: 17
Reply 24, posted (7 years 7 months 3 days 15 hours ago) and read 14674 times:

BOS is a hub for jetBlue... (along with JFK, IAD, OAK, FLL per their own website)

LAX is a hub for United..

Added info

[Edited 2007-02-21 17:19:31]


Aiming High and going far..
25 2travel2know : In Southamerica there are quite a number of large cities which aren't hub: In Brazil I could think of CNF, POA, CWB, SSA, FOR and REC, which I wouldn
26 777STL : The definition of a hub is pretty ambigious in my opinion. It is what the airline says it is. If UA calls it a hub, then it's a hub. Look at AA, BOS
27 PanAm330 : No, it wouldn't be. United calls LAX one of their hubs, as many above have stated. No again. It's considered a 'focus city' for them, in addition to
28 ERJ170 : But you can't because JetBlue calls Boston a hub.. next choice?
29 BigGSFO : Are Nagoya or Osaka considered hubs by anyone? I would also think there might be half dozen cities in China or India with population 1million+ that d
30 Marcus : MTY is the hub for Viva Aerobus GDL is the hub for Alma and TIJ is the hub for A Volar I don't think anyone considers SAN as a hub, while WN is the b
31 777STL : No. JetBlue doesn't have any hubs, only focus cities per their 10K. So Boston still seems to be the number one choice.
32 BigGSFO : Agreed. Sacramento would also be on the short list.
33 Post contains links ERJ170 : JetBlue Major hubs in New York-JFK, Boston, Washing DC-Dulles, Fort Lauderdale, Long Beach, and Oakland. www.jetblue.com/
34 LipeGIG : Gol considers GIG as a kind of focus city as well as Tam, both nowadays use to keep grounded planes at GIG during weekends and holidays for contingen
35 PanAm330 : " target=_blank>www.jetblue.com/ Give it up- you're incorrect, and many have told you so. One poster above even sourced their 10K report. I think the
36 777STL : " target=_blank>www.jetblue.com/ Their website says "key cities", not hubs, on the route map and their 10K aka as the Annual Report lists Boston and a
37 Post contains links 777STL : Just for the sake of running this into the ground, here's the page in the 10K: http://investor.jetblue.com/phoenix....BhZ2U9NDY3NTU1MSZkb2M9MSZudW09NA
38 GAtechAE : San Diego has a higher population than Boston if we take city limits only BOS- City:596k Metro:5.8 mil SAN- City:1.2 mil Metro: 2.9 mil
39 Coronado990 : Next choice would be SAN. Although Boston has a larger metro area, San Diego is technically a larger city. But what I would go by is that less than 1
40 CXA330300 : JAL and ANA both have hubs in KIX/ITM and NGO.
41 Incitatus : Why defer to the airline? Two airlines have exactly the same flight schedule at airport YYY. One calls it a hub and the other one does not. Does it m
42 BigGSFO : Because there is no industry standard, no "official" definition of a hub, with specific cirteria etc. In my opinion, a hub is nothing more than a mar
43 Tockeyhockey : you do realize that boston is about the size of baltimore, right? i don't think it has more than 600,000 people. the largest city without a hub is mo
44 Gigneil : Because what you regard is irrelevant, really. A hub is what the airlines say is a hub, not what you say is a hub. If United says Los Angeles is a hu
45 XJET : But, the metro area has about 5.8 million people. I kind of agree with this point. Can anyone really argue that B6 doesn't have a "hub" in JFK?? I ha
46 Incitatus : Correct, there is no official definition, but you, like me, have your opinion - and you've chosen to let the airlines individually decide for you. Th
47 BigGSFO : I would argue that JFK is not a hub for B6 because Jetblue doesn't refer to it as a hub. And guess what? I have con ected numerous times in PHX, OAK,
48 SlcDeltaRUmd11 : what about STL is that really a tecnically a "hub" for american airlines???? oviously it was a huge hub for TWA but AA in STL is a joke now maybe PIT
49 777STL : Functionally, it's no more a hub than LAX or BOS is. One could argue that since LAX has a sizable Eagle operation, more mainline flights to more citi
50 XJET : I think that is a matter of opinion. I would say that WN has hubs in MCO, BWI, MDW, PHX, OAK, DAL, and HOU etc..... One of the biggest factors I woul
51 BigGSFO : I acutally agree. if there was a standard, then this discussion would be a lot less complicated. It does make it difficult to have an "apples-to-appl
52 XJET : I don't really think that they are P2P to the point that they can be compared to WN. The majority of B6's flights begin or end at JFK. I guess this r
53 CRGsFuture : Actually on their website JFK is a "focus city". What does that mean? Well for starters its there main base of operations with every destination in t
54 Post contains images HighFlyer9790 : BOS is huge O&D....
55 Tockeyhockey : since when is this thread about metro areas?
56 Tockeyhockey : my guess is WUH. wuhan has a population of almost 4 million, yet has no hub airline.
57 XJET : Since this I guess. I tried to talk about JAX based on the terms of city population, and was promtly corrected here:
58 N200WN : Funny how SAT wasn't thrown into the mix either. BTW...your new jetway was just installed yesterday at SAT, at gate 9. Edit: I certainly mean to come
59 L.1011 : Here's the authoritative list, by size of metropolitan area. 1. New York - AA?, CO, DL, focus for US, B6 2. Los Angeles - B6, UA 3. Chicago - UA, AA 4
60 XJET : Don't worry I didn't take offense... you made a good point! I am gald we have a jetway in SAT now. There should be an announcement soon, but the rumo
61 RDUDDJI : True, to put it in perspective...LAX has 8 more mainline departures a day than IAD. It's definitely not a "fortress" hub, but a hub nonetheless. TSN
62 TransWorldSTL : It also isn't even near the busiest
63 XJET : However it is the next mega hub for FedEx when the new gigantic sorting facility is completed. This will be a major plus for IND.
64 777STL : If you'd read what I wrote that you subsequently quoted, I said that. That's pretty extreme and unrealistic, wouldn't ya say? But taking BOS and AA f
65 A342 : Wikipedia says the population is some 9.1 million, but nonetheless, it seems you're right. The next might be CKG.
66 SWALoveField : 38th largest metro area in the USA. I wouldn't call Austin a large city and it is certainly not the largest without a HUB. Robb Dallas, TX
67 CXA330300 : Horizon has a hub of sorts at Portland. Allegiant ex-Sanford No, Inland Empire is more the outer ring of LA. Wuhan municipality (bigger than city) to
68 Steeler83 : Neither is PIT... used to be one for US, but they don't call it a hub anymore... I never heard of this. Where is this at? Yeah, PIT is still a large
69 B737700doctor : Is BWI offically a hub for WN?
70 L.1011 : The Inland Empire is the most inland part of urbanized Southern California. It includes places like Riverside, San Bernadino, and Ontario. As you can
71 Bimmerkid19 : i was referring to European Airlines that use them for dual destination flights. i.e for flights out of SIN and KUL you can buy a ticket for only fra
72 FlyLKU : Definition of Hub: Airport to be avoided - unless you're just there to take pictures and post them on this web site.
73 XJET : Of course it is extreme and unrealistic. I am just making a point. If the only definition of a hub is: "The airline calls it a hub", then "hub" reall
74 DeltaJet757 : What about STL when TW left? -DeltaJet757
75 Naritaflyer : How about YUL? This is not a hub of any airline. Given that it's a big city naturally there are several flights by AC but the city is not a hub of any
76 777STL : And if every airport where one can make a connection is deemed a hub, then "hub" also means nothing. You can't quantify what a hub is. It's a classif
77 Stylo777 : I would also add ESB / Ankara in Turkey to that list. A population of more than 4,3 mio and the capital city of Turkey, but no hub for any airline.
78 Lemurs : They don't operate mainline aircraft though. I'm not sure if that discounts them necessarily, but certainly you could say PDX is a large city without
79 Post contains images XJET : Well 777STL, I am sorry that you, the "Webster of Aviation", cannot accept any input I may have on this topic. I didn't say that any airport at which
80 EI A330-200 : I'm pretty sure PDX also recieves mainline AC and offers connections between Mainline and Horizon. Brian
81 Ptugarin : How about Calcutta in India? It's one of the largest cities in the world, isn't it?
82 Lemurs : They do, but there are a grand total of maybe 8 or 10 destinations that AS servers out of PDX, including SEA itself. It's not just one, but it's a str
83 Carpethead : Not in the US (but enough int'l replies), but Tokyo Haneda (HND), which is the fourth biggest airport in the world in terms of pax numbers, is a non-h
84 Post contains links AS739X : Los Angeles: United Hub http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/United_airlines ASLAX
85 Rampart : US Census Bureau now has a classification called "Combined Statistical Area". In this case, three metropolitan areas, the Los Angeles-Long Beach-Sant
86 Cedars747 : With a population over four millions,Alexandria is the second largest city in Egypt without an airline hub Alex!!!
87 Tockeyhockey : WOO HOO HOO WUHAN! we have a winner.
88 Post contains links Apodino : How many times do I have to correct people on this board? AA does consider BOS a hub, and their website even shows that they do. If you don't believe
89 Rampart : Orlando is 28th largest metro area, behind San Antonio and Kansas City, neither of which have hubs unless you want to argue that Midwest Express has
90 Apodino : I know that. I just threw out the traffic at the airport as food for thought.
91 Post contains images AustinAirport : My Bad ,I thought I heard somewhere that it was the 16th largest.
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