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AA MEM-MIA Was There Ever NWA Fuss?  
User currently offlineSampa737 From Brazil, joined May 2005, 637 posts, RR: 1
Posted (7 years 8 months 2 days 11 hours ago) and read 3401 times:

When Frontier decided to enter the Memphis market (Denver, Orlando and Las Vegas), all heck seemed to break loose. Air Tran added Orlando from Memphis. Northwest upgraded Denver service, and increased Orlando and Las Vegas flights.

Awhile back American Eagle initiated 2 daily flights from Memphis to Miami. Did Northwest challenge this at all? I don't remember anything. If not, why not? Does Northwest see more of a threat from Frontier than American? And, does anyone know how well the American flights are doing?

Thanks!

32 replies: All unread, showing first 25:
 
User currently offlineEjmmsu From United States of America, joined Oct 2004, 1692 posts, RR: 0
Reply 1, posted (7 years 8 months 2 days 11 hours ago) and read 3379 times:

Some things to think about...

Miami is a relatively weak station for NW, with only 7 daily flights (3xDTW, 3xMSP, and 1xMEM).

AA has a hub at MIA, and is only flying 2 RJ's daily

AA is not in the business of charging lower fares than other legacy carriers in the same markets.

The addition of AA in the market was not going to cut into NW's bottom line much (since NW only had one daily MEM-MIA flight, and I would be willing to bet it is filled mainly with connecting passengers.)

Most of the MEM originating traffic on the route on AA are probably latin american connections... a segment that NW can't really serve that well anyway. Also, these flights are filled with MIA based AAdvantage members who probably just connected in DFW on AA before the n/s flights were added.



"If the facts do not conform to the theory, they will have to be disposed of"
User currently offlineMAH4546 From Sweden, joined Jan 2001, 33027 posts, RR: 71
Reply 2, posted (7 years 8 months 2 days 7 hours ago) and read 3239 times:

Of course Northwest responded. Less than a week after American Eagle announced Miami-Memphis, Northwest upgraded the daily flight from an A319 to an A320, and added a second daily flight. The second flight was cut last year when Northwest made huge cuts in domestic capacity.


a.
User currently offlineJetBlueLuv From United States of America, joined Apr 2006, 114 posts, RR: 1
Reply 3, posted (7 years 8 months 1 day 22 hours ago) and read 3120 times:

Quoting MAH4546 (Reply 2):
Of course Northwest responded. Less than a week after American Eagle announced Miami-Memphis, Northwest upgraded the daily flight from an A319 to an A320, and added a second daily flight. The second flight was cut last year when Northwest made huge cuts in domestic capacity

Really? I never knew this. Does anyone know if the second flight may return?


User currently offlineSampa737 From Brazil, joined May 2005, 637 posts, RR: 1
Reply 4, posted (7 years 8 months 1 day 22 hours ago) and read 3119 times:

Thanks for the replies. Just seeing the response from Air Tran and Northwest to Frontier made me think of AA and Miami out of Memphis. One of those questions I always wanted to ask but never did.

User currently offlineJetBlueLuv From United States of America, joined Apr 2006, 114 posts, RR: 1
Reply 5, posted (7 years 8 months 1 day 22 hours ago) and read 3115 times:

speaking of AirTran...why would they have added a MEM-MCO? It's been kinda asked on the other thread, but it just seems odd if they are partnered with Frontier.

User currently offlineSampa737 From Brazil, joined May 2005, 637 posts, RR: 1
Reply 6, posted (7 years 8 months 1 day 22 hours ago) and read 3109 times:

I'm with you there. Obviously NWA would respond, but Air Tran? And they resonded first, didn't they? I wonder if UA will upgrade from regionals back to 737s??

User currently offlineJetBlueLuv From United States of America, joined Apr 2006, 114 posts, RR: 1
Reply 7, posted (7 years 8 months 1 day 21 hours ago) and read 3093 times:

Quoting Sampa737 (Reply 6):
I'm with you there. Obviously NWA would respond, but Air Tran? And they resonded first, didn't they? I wonder if UA will upgrade from regionals back to 737s??

Seriously! How long has it been since UA flew MEM-DEN on the 737? I remember flying ValuJet and having to use the tarmac because both of the jetways ValuJet normally used were occupied by UA 737s. There was an article a few years ago in the Memphis paper about how United was flying 737s out of MEM...seemed like a PR piece.


User currently offlineSampa737 From Brazil, joined May 2005, 637 posts, RR: 1
Reply 8, posted (7 years 8 months 1 day 21 hours ago) and read 3082 times:

I just remember picking up a friend that came in from Denver some time ago. He came in on a 737 and it was packed. So, not long after, when United pulled out of Memphis, I was shocked. Now, it's nothing but regionals flying for United to Denver and Chicago. I also remember the paper making a big deal that UA was one of the first airlines in the history of the airport and pulling out was sad for Memphis.

User currently offlineJetBlueLuv From United States of America, joined Apr 2006, 114 posts, RR: 1
Reply 9, posted (7 years 8 months 1 day 20 hours ago) and read 3029 times:

Quoting Sampa737 (Reply 8):
I just remember picking up a friend that came in from Denver some time ago. He came in on a 737 and it was packed. So, not long after, when United pulled out of Memphis, I was shocked. Now, it's nothing but regionals flying for United to Denver and Chicago. I also remember the paper making a big deal that UA was one of the first airlines in the history of the airport and pulling out was sad for Memphis.

Agreed. Didn't United fly from here to IAD for a while?


User currently offlineEXAAUADL From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 10, posted (7 years 8 months 1 day 20 hours ago) and read 3022 times:

ahhhhh...good point...You must understand NWA's long history with LCCs.


NWA MO with LCCS, is to fight the mat every turn. Back in 1997, When Western Pac was flying, NW served COS from MSP, DTW and MEM. Even though W7 never flew to any NW hub. Further back in 1993, NW considered buildign a hub in RNO to drive QQ out of business.

On the other hand, NW mostly ignores Legacies. Legacies dont threaten NW's high fare structure for local traffic, also Legacies can fight back.

I remember back in the 1990s when I was at AA, we had 5 daily DFW-MSP and so did NW. AA added a 6th and NW did nothing. About 6 months later they added a 6th.

The only market where NW can get nasty vis-a-vis a legacy is ORD-MSP. When AA put that market on sale, NW got pissed and put abunch of AA markets on sale.

NW is a classic bully


User currently offlineFATFlyer From United States of America, joined May 2001, 5821 posts, RR: 28
Reply 11, posted (7 years 8 months 1 day 18 hours ago) and read 2966 times:

Quoting EXAAUADL (Reply 10):
Further back in 1993, NW considered buildign a hub in RNO to drive QQ out of business.

And now NW does not fly to Reno at all. How things change.



"Travel is fatal to prejudice, bigotry, and narrow-mindedness." - Mark Twain
User currently offlineSampa737 From Brazil, joined May 2005, 637 posts, RR: 1
Reply 12, posted (7 years 8 months 1 day 18 hours ago) and read 2930 times:

Yeah, I remember United Express flying IAD for a time. I can't remember when they flew it and when they stopped. Guess NWA swooped in again! Can't blame them. I'm glad NWA protects its turf...to a degree!  Smile

User currently offlineJetBlueLuv From United States of America, joined Apr 2006, 114 posts, RR: 1
Reply 13, posted (7 years 8 months 1 day 15 hours ago) and read 2840 times:

Quoting Sampa737 (Reply 12):
Yeah, I remember United Express flying IAD for a time. I can't remember when they flew it and when they stopped. Guess NWA swooped in again! Can't blame them. I'm glad NWA protects its turf...to a degree!

But now the only Washington option from Memphis is DCA, I believe.


User currently offlineJohnJ From United States of America, joined Jun 2000, 1662 posts, RR: 2
Reply 14, posted (7 years 8 months 1 day 15 hours ago) and read 2812 times:

Quoting JetBlueLuv (Reply 13):
But now the only Washington option from Memphis is DCA, I believe.

Northwest also flies MEM-BWI with 2x CRJ, 1x A319.


User currently offlineJetBlueLuv From United States of America, joined Apr 2006, 114 posts, RR: 1
Reply 15, posted (7 years 8 months 1 day 7 hours ago) and read 2746 times:

True. I just wish the IAD flight would come back.

User currently offlineJetjeanes From United States of America, joined Oct 2004, 1431 posts, RR: 1
Reply 16, posted (7 years 8 months 1 day 7 hours ago) and read 2737 times:

American Eagle to Mia from here in Memphis would not cause much stink as i cant imagine anyone wanting to fly one
from here to mia. I would rather connect thru Atl With Dl or Fl., More exciteing..



i can see for 80 miles
User currently offlineMAH4546 From Sweden, joined Jan 2001, 33027 posts, RR: 71
Reply 17, posted (7 years 8 months 1 day 7 hours ago) and read 2720 times:

Quoting Jetjeanes (Reply 16):
American Eagle to Mia from here in Memphis would not cause much stink as i cant imagine anyone wanting to fly one
from here to mia. I would rather connect thru Atl With Dl or Fl., More exciteing..

What on earth are you talking about? American Eagle already flies Miami-Memphis. They have for almost two years.



a.
User currently offlineSampa737 From Brazil, joined May 2005, 637 posts, RR: 1
Reply 18, posted (7 years 8 months 1 day 2 hours ago) and read 2672 times:

From what I have read, the loads are pretty good, too. They must be in order for these 2 flights to continue as they have. If my points weren't with Delta, I'd probably be flying AA, getting the day flight to Sao Paulo. I'm glad AA has seen this as success.

User currently offlineJetBlueLuv From United States of America, joined Apr 2006, 114 posts, RR: 1
Reply 19, posted (7 years 8 months 18 hours ago) and read 2625 times:

Quoting Sampa737 (Reply 18):
From what I have read, the loads are pretty good, too. They must be in order for these 2 flights to continue as they have. If my points weren't with Delta, I'd probably be flying AA, getting the day flight to Sao Paulo. I'm glad AA has seen this as success.

Me too...I'd love to see some AA 737s at MEM, but I'm happy with how things are now. I'd like to see MEM-JFK on AA or some NY destination


User currently offlineSampa737 From Brazil, joined May 2005, 637 posts, RR: 1
Reply 20, posted (7 years 8 months 18 hours ago) and read 2596 times:

Getting way off the subject, but.............I hate seeing more and more DL regionals. And yea, it'd be cool to see something other than red tails on a jet in MEM! AA 737's would be cool. And also CO 737 back. But, again I'm thankful for NWA in MEM.

User currently offlineAlphascan From United States of America, joined Nov 2003, 937 posts, RR: 13
Reply 21, posted (7 years 8 months 17 hours ago) and read 2565 times:

Quoting EXAAUADL (Reply 10):
The only market where NW can get nasty vis-a-vis a legacy is ORD-MSP. When AA put that market on sale, NW got pissed and put abunch of AA markets on sale.

Back in the late 80s/early 90s AA initiated MSP/LAX service. NW (Bob Fornaro actually) responded with DFW/LAX and grabbed a bunch of Asian traffic while at the same time trashing the DFW/LAX market. Crandall caved very quickly.



"To he who only has a hammer in his toolbelt, every problem looks like a nail."
User currently offlineTVNWZ From United States of America, joined Feb 2006, 2398 posts, RR: 2
Reply 22, posted (7 years 8 months 17 hours ago) and read 2548 times:

Quoting EXAAUADL (Reply 10):
The only market where NW can get nasty vis-a-vis a legacy is ORD-MSP. When AA put that market on sale, NW got pissed and put abunch of AA markets on sale.

NW is a classic bully

No. A classic bully would be the one who started the fight in the first place. NW would be the classic defender of its house--in the case you cited.


User currently offlineJetBlueLuv From United States of America, joined Apr 2006, 114 posts, RR: 1
Reply 23, posted (7 years 8 months 15 hours ago) and read 2513 times:

Quoting Sampa737 (Reply 20):
And also CO 737 back.

I dunno if my mom just didn't know what type of plane she was on, but she flew up to EWR from MEM a while back, and it was on a 737, according to her.


User currently offlineEXAAUADL From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 24, posted (7 years 8 months 14 hours ago) and read 2498 times:

Quoting TVNWZ (Reply 22):
No. A classic bully would be the one who started the fight in the first place. NW would be the classic defender of its house--in the case you cited.

As the #3 carrier in the market, I find it amusing you would refer to AA as a bully in the ORD-MSP market


25 TVNWZ : Well, then, why would the #3 guy want to cut it's prices? To take away customers from NW? I find it amusing you would call the airline that was tryin
26 GARUDAROD : NW almost always upgrades the MIA flight when the Spring Break period comes around. I used to do the cargo sales for them in MIA and that additional
27 Sampa737 : Was probably an A319. It looks almost the same. NWA doesn't own any 737s. I believe the only Boeing they fly is the 757.
28 Nosedive : Ummmm 747-400s? Of course, those hardly, if ever, land in MEM.
29 Sampa737 : I should have clarified...I believe the only Boeing they fly, out of MEM, is the 757. As for the 747-400, I don't know if they ever flew out of MEM.
30 JetBlueLuv : Was the 747 ever used on MEM-MSP or MEM-DTW flights? I think NW used it for a bit. I hope the 787 helps MEM out with international flights on NW.
31 Sampa737 : THAT would be cool, the 787. I think the A330 is awesome for Memphis. I think the 747 was used for MSP and DTW. I never saw one except for a picture i
32 Nosedive : Fair enough. Back in the 80s, IIRC. The route, MEM-MSP, was a DC10 even into the late 1990s and sometime after that. I believe I saw a few DC10s in 2
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