Continental123 From United States of America, joined Nov 2006, 147 posts, RR: 0 Posted (6 years 3 months 17 hours ago) and read 6678 times:
Indonesian budget carrier Adam Air has grounded six Boeing 737-300 planes for safety inspections after the fuselage of one of its aircraft cracked during a hard landing, an airline official said on Thursday.
The Boeing 737-300s, almost a third of the airline's fleet, would not fly until they had passed the safety inspection from the government, Adam Air safety director Hartono said.
The Indonesian government has stepped up safety investigations since an Adam Air plane disappeared in January.
"The planes will be checked before they can fly again, so all the 300-series will not fly today," Hartono said in Surabaya where he was inspecting the cracked aircraft. Like most Indonesians, Hartono only use one name.
"The check is a preventive measure. If there's nothing wrong with the planes they can be flown again."
All 148 passengers on the aircraft that made a hard landing on Wednesday were safe, but the accident prompted a temporary closure of Juanda Airport in Surabaya, Indonesia's second largest city and the capital of East Java province.
The body of the plane was cracked through the middle of the passenger section, leaving the tail drooping towards the ground.
On January 1 an Adam Air Boeing 737-400 with 102 people disappeared from radar screens during a domestic flight from Surabaya to Manado in the north of Sulawesi island.
No bodies have been found from the plane, although some debris has been recovered from the sea off South Sulawesi.
That accident sparked widespread discussion of Indonesian aviation safety standards and President Susilo Bambang Yudhoyono set up a commission to investigate transport safety.
Adam Air said Wednesday's incident was caused by strong wind amid heavy rain at the airport, and the plane, made in 1994, had undergone thorough checks before flying.
The incident had prompted some passengers to cancel flights with the carrier, Elshinta radio reported.
Adam Air, one of about a dozen budget airlines in the world's fourth most populous nation, operates 19 Boeing 737 jets. It serves dozens of domestic routes in Indonesia and also flies to Singapore.
Air travel in Indonesia, home to 220 million people, has grown substantially since the liberalization of the airline industry after the Asian financial crisis in the late 1990s.
Flyabunch From United States of America, joined Nov 2004, 512 posts, RR: 5 Reply 1, posted (6 years 3 months 17 hours ago) and read 6660 times:
Sounds like they are trying to divert attention away from the airline itself and blame the planes. I think WN could tell them a few things about high use 733's. They do not seem to have any problems with this model. As several of our Indonesian members have said in the past the government needs to clamp down on Adams but probably will not.
Nwafflyer From United States of America, joined Jul 2004, 1050 posts, RR: 2 Reply 2, posted (6 years 3 months 17 hours ago) and read 6580 times:
Again, this is some kind of politcal b's that most of us in the west just cannot understand. We've been through all sorts of scenarios, including Adam Air suing Boeing
While we do this political 'crap' there has been valuable evidence lost due to Adam Air's attitude. I am assuming (which is never safe to do) that the Adam Air crash was not due to anything other than the incompentence of the airline itself, be it maintenance, etc., but -- just suppose, there were an undiscovered flaw in the Boeing 737.
Don't all airlines (or better yet, all human beings) have to have some regard for the safety of others? If by some remote chance, the Adam Air 737 had a potential flaw, then that flaw needs to be brought to light and corrected for other airlines/planes.
Of course, we all are certain that that is not the case - so we watch the political manoverings of Adam Air, and we have no choice but to empathize with intelligent Indonesians (Mandala) , to sympathize with the bulk of the population who have no clue/education/awareness, and to make personal committments to not support Adam Air, or other airlines of this caliber (rather lack of caliber) when we ourselves travel
Ikramerica From United States of America, joined May 2005, 21029 posts, RR: 60 Reply 5, posted (6 years 3 months 13 hours ago) and read 6527 times:
Quoting OPNLguy (Reply 4): Yeah, I mean it's not like a really really hard landing could have possibly had anything to do with it...
Since nobody died, I can make a joke about this whole thing. Here are some great movie instances of people shifting the blame to inanimate objects:
"The hatch just blew." -The Right Stuff
"Hit one good bump out here... BLAM! Your whole rear window explodes!" -Fletch
"Screws fall out all the time. The World's an imperfect place." -The Breakfast Club
Of all the things to worry about... the Wookie has no pants.
HB-IWC From Greece, joined Sep 2000, 4414 posts, RR: 76 Reply 6, posted (6 years 3 months 12 hours ago) and read 6500 times:
Interesting spin they are putting on the grounding of a third of their fleet. First of all, the grounding was ordered by the government, not be the airline itself. Secondly, the airline and its political backers have been crying foul all over the media about this grounding which is their words is an 'emotional reaction' of the regulators. Finally, these same people have been pushing for a country wide ban of the B733 in an apparent move to divert the attention away from the airline and towards the airplane's manufacturer but also to preclude competitors from taking advantage of the current situation at Adam. Garuda Indonesia, Air Asia Indonesia, Merpati, Lion Air and other all operate the B733.
Adding further pressure to the government, Adam Air has refused to cancel any flights or reacommodate any passengers following the grounding of their remaining B733s. The airline's CEO has publicly stated that it would just delay all passengers and reschedule and operate all flights with the remaining part of the fleet, which also consists of the B732, B734 and B735.
Adam Air was founded by the family of Indonesia's House Speaker, who is in turn backed by the country's largest and most influential political party. The country has been a hotbed of endemic corruption, collusion and nepotism, so the current wrangling over the outcome of the lastest Adam Air calamity should not surprise anyone.
Electech6299 From United States of America, joined Aug 2005, 616 posts, RR: 3 Reply 8, posted (6 years 3 months 12 hours ago) and read 6423 times:
Quoting XT6Wagon (Reply 7): A check to make sure atleast the 733's are not in need of structural repairs... is a good thing.
Seriously! I am quite surprised at the responses on this thread. If a cable tie falls off a 737 or 320 on landing in the US, there is an advisory the next day to inspect all frames of that type to ensure that the offending cable tie is properly fastened and not overly worn. Why shouldn't the Indo government call for an inspection of Adam's 733s when one cracks in half on landing? We have no details of the investigation thus far, perhaps some Mx flaw has been discovered and they want to check for consistency across the fleet? Or perhaps they are finally at the point of shutting Adam Air down and are now gathering data to support that decision?
[Edited 2007-02-23 07:59:29]
Send not to know for whom the bell tolls...it tolls for thee
Jetfuel From Australia, joined Jan 2005, 2066 posts, RR: 0 Reply 10, posted (6 years 3 months 11 hours ago) and read 6347 times:
Grounded for inspection by officials.................
Read as - Stop flying them for 24 hours until another $10,000 in US $ bills passes through the system and then announce that the rest of the fleet is safe, and that the one that bent itself was the fault of Boeing.
Reality - Let's hope that Adam Air cannot get insurance or financial backing and goes broke
Where's the passion gone out of the airline industry? The smell of jetfuel and the romance of taking a flight....
HB-IWC From Greece, joined Sep 2000, 4414 posts, RR: 76 Reply 11, posted (6 years 3 months 10 hours ago) and read 6296 times:
Quoting XT6Wagon (Reply 7): We know that the airline isn't really on the ball about certain issues. A check to make sure atleast the 733's are not in need of structural repairs... is a good thing.
For starters, there have been sufficient previous incidents to warrant not just the grounding of the airline's B733 fleet but of the entire Adam Air fleet, which consists of several B737 models. The real problem, though, is that it is virtually certain that no thorough check will be carried out, but that money has been changing hands big time in the past day or so, and that the airline will be up and running again until the next incident inevitably happens.
I guess it is difficult for outsiders to grasp how rotten the situation in the country really is. Money talks just about anywhere and any other considerations merly play a minor role. Add to that this airline's powerful political backing which spreads throughout all branches of the government, and it is not difficult to understand that they can act with virutal impunity while displaying behavior that is, quite frankly, criminally negligent.
As it goes, it is already unheard of that the regulators at the transport ministry have gone as far as the current grounding of the B733 fleet, although this has likely little to do with the safety concerns and more with the perceived immediate financial gain for the government officials involved. One shouldn't be surprised to see the tranport ministry's top officials, who are all working for a monthly salary of below $1,000, zipping around Jakarta in the newest luxury cars. Such is that state of affairs within the Indonesian government.
BrianDromey From Ireland, joined Dec 2006, 3807 posts, RR: 10 Reply 12, posted (6 years 3 months 10 hours ago) and read 6217 times:
Quoting HB-IWC (Reply 6): Finally, these same people have been pushing for a country wide ban of the B733 in an apparent move to divert the attention away from the airline and towards the airplane's manufacturer but also to preclude competitors from taking advantage of the current situation at Adam. Garuda Indonesia, Air Asia Indonesia, Merpati, Lion Air and other all operate the B733.
This is just crazy. But of course its only when the aircraft get an Indonesian reg slapped on them that the become hell bent on self distruction . Adam only had the aircraft for a few weeks, I assume (perhaps a little nievely) that it would have been overhauled before Adam took delivery? In any case 737s dont just break in half on ahard landings...from what Ive seen. Although Im not a pilot Im gonna GUESS the 737 hit the runway in a very nose up attitude, the tail taking most of the impact and one of the main gear taking the rest. I just dont see how enough forces could be generated through the airframe...if it landed on its gear, surely the gear would be somewhere near the PSU?
Remember the Aloha 732....lost about 25% of the crown of the aircraft...and did not break up. Different situation, I know...but does show that the 737 is a sturdy little thing.
Quoting Electech6299 (Reply 8): If a cable tie falls off a 737 or 320 on landing in the US, there is an advisory the next day to inspect all frames of that type to ensure that the offending cable tie is properly fastened and not overly worn.
OK, but do they GROUND an entire fleet? Or limit it to say the A319 but not the similar 318/320/321. I dont see the sense in grounding the 733 fleet without doing the same for 737-200/400/500. This is more a political issue than a grounding motivated by the fears for the safety of Indonesian passengers.
Next flights: MAN-ORK-LHR(EI)-MAN(BD); MAN-LHR(BD)-ORK (EI); DUB-ZRH-LAX (LX) LAX-YYZ (AC) YYZ-YHZ-LHR(AC)-DUB(BD)
UK_Dispatcher From United Arab Emirates, joined Dec 2001, 2550 posts, RR: 33 Reply 13, posted (6 years 3 months 7 hours ago) and read 6017 times:
It is indeed rather laughable that they have grounded the B733s and not the B732s or particularly the same-generation B734/B735s.
They actually operate a B732 which I am quite interested in as it is the earliest reg a/c I know I flew on. It is currently registered PK-KKN and was operated by Dan Air as G-ILFC at the time I flew on it.
Are there any routes/flights on which Adam Air specifically operate the B732, or is it pretty random between their 4 x B737 series?
SEPilot From United States of America, joined Dec 2006, 6258 posts, RR: 39 Reply 15, posted (6 years 3 months 6 hours ago) and read 5925 times:
Quoting BrianDromey (Reply 12): OK, but do they GROUND an entire fleet? Or limit it to say the A319 but not the similar 318/320/321. I dont see the sense in grounding the 733 fleet without doing the same for 737-200/400/500. This is more a political issue than a grounding motivated by the fears for the safety of Indonesian passengers.
In the US, and I'm assuming much of the rest of the world, an aircraft type isn't grounded unless there's pretty strong suspicion of a specific fault. A plane disappearing over the ocean and one breaking in half due to a very hard landing would not lead most normally intelligent people to believe that because they were the same type they must have a common flaw unless the common flaw was gremlins. Does Boeing assume liability for gremlins? Will it hold up in court?
The problem with making things foolproof is that fools are so doggone ingenious...Dan Keebler
LTBEWR From United States of America, joined Jan 2004, 12333 posts, RR: 12 Reply 17, posted (6 years 3 months 5 hours ago) and read 5802 times:
At least this is a start for Adam Air. Now if they grounded all the rest of their aircraft and went out of business, that would be a desirable story. That they have grounded these aircraft is a sign that the government and Adam's management is somewhat concerned...for now.
SeeTheWorld From United States of America, joined Dec 2005, 1275 posts, RR: 4 Reply 18, posted (6 years 3 months 5 hours ago) and read 5749 times:
Quoting Electech6299 (Reply 8): Seriously! I am quite surprised at the responses on this thread. If a cable tie falls off a 737 or 320 on landing in the US, there is an advisory the next day to inspect all frames of that type to ensure that the offending cable tie is properly fastened and not overly worn. Why shouldn't the Indo government call for an inspection of Adam's 733s when one cracks in half on landing? We have no details of the investigation thus far, perhaps some Mx flaw has been discovered and they want to check for consistency across the fleet? Or perhaps they are finally at the point of shutting Adam Air down and are now gathering data to support that decision?
You can be damn sure that if a 733 had a hard landing during terrible weather in the U.S. like the Adam Air one did and cracked in half, there would be no grounding of the entire 733 fleet to check for problems. There would be a grounding of the flight crew, a check of current weather conditions at the time, and a check of all systems on and off the plane that relate to weather. To say that it makes sense to ground a fleet of one particular type-series aircraft (with thousands flying over decades) because an extremely hard landing occurred and damaged an aircraft, without any other evidence to the contrary, is completely idiotic.
GARUDAROD From United States of America, joined Apr 2000, 1477 posts, RR: 1 Reply 19, posted (6 years 3 months 1 hour ago) and read 5558 times:
I'm still unclear on one thing. Was the grounding only for the Adam Air B733,
or did they manage to get all of the B733 in Indonesia grounded?
If thats the case then domestic travel must be in chaos this week.
Also, could you clear up, is the Suherman who has been quoted recently the same fellow
who used to have a top management position with GA??
BrianDromey From Ireland, joined Dec 2006, 3807 posts, RR: 10 Reply 21, posted (6 years 2 months 4 weeks 1 day 23 hours ago) and read 5360 times:
Quoting Starrion (Reply 20): Grounding the 733 fleet makes sense because you see this kind of thing on 737's all the time. Doesn't every airport have a couple of 737's with the tail dragging on the ground?
The crew couldn't possibly be responsible for turning one of the most reliable aircraft in airline service into a static modern artwork.
HB-IWC From Greece, joined Sep 2000, 4414 posts, RR: 76 Reply 22, posted (6 years 2 months 4 weeks 1 day 23 hours ago) and read 5356 times:
Quoting GARUDAROD (Reply 19): Was the grounding only for the Adam Air B733,
or did they manage to get all of the B733 in Indonesia grounded?
Only the Adam Air B733s have been grounded so far, and although the airline's management has been seriously pushing for an extension of the bad to all Indonesian operators - probably in hopes of diverting the attention from Adam - the government seems not inclined to impose such a ban.
Quoting GARUDAROD (Reply 19): Also, could you clear up, is the Suherman who has been quoted recently the same fellow
who used to have a top management position with GA??
No. Adam Suherman is still in his 20s, and is a recent US business school drop out.
727forever From United States of America, joined Jan 2006, 783 posts, RR: 5 Reply 24, posted (6 years 2 months 4 weeks 1 day 22 hours ago) and read 5049 times:
Quoting Nwafflyer (Reply 2): Don't all airlines (or better yet, all human beings) have to have some regard for the safety of others? If by some remote chance, the Adam Air 737 had a potential flaw, then that flaw needs to be brought to light and corrected for other airlines/planes.
Yes, there is a very dangerous flaw with the 737 that all airlines should be aware of. It has a problem in that it simply will not fly below stall speed. A Service Bulletin will be forthcoming in the days ahead.
25 Ikramerica: I think Adam Air should be grounded. To single out the 733 is the part we are laughing about. Ground the whole fleet until it's determined that Adam
26 Metroliner: bloody hell! how'd the gear survive that? i am very impressed... i agree that adam air should be grounded in its entirety until all of their aircraft
27 Smylinpilot: I remember reading madala's thread the day he wrote it. I got the impression that if Adam Air continued down the road they were traveling an inccenden
28 Scarebus03: I am relieved that everyone was o.k. and there is a positive point to this incident. The investigation (provided there is one) will give a good insigh
29 Nwafflyer: This is just laughable, I'm sorry - but I fly all the time on 'old' DC-9's and never have a remote concern I really do hope there is a 'warning' about
30 Electech6299: Let's take your argument in perspective. Has anyone asked that all 733's worldwide be grounded? No. So I don't see the relevance. The government dema
31 Mandala499: The grounding instructions didn't come from the NTSC, but the DGAC. Adam's PR doing well, well, there is a difference between what they claim and what
32 HB-IWC: Nothing that can't be solved by lowering the price of the tickets by another Rp. 50,000...
33 Bennett123: http://aviation-safety.net/database/record.php?id=19700915-0&lang=en This is how to break a DC8. Seriously the B737-300 has been flying for how many h
34 Kaktusdigital: When Indonesia's aviation industry pays pitiful stale rotten peanuts, you are bound to get a "ah thats good enough" attitude. Not the fault of the ind
35 Mika: What a utter load of BS. How on earth could that incident be blamed on the airframe? I've personally never witnessed anything like this..it's pretty d
36 HAWK21M: Has Boeing Said Anything on this. regds MEL
37 Nitrohelper: We used to call Indoland "85% OK," Not really clean ? , , ok, Floor not flat ?,,,ok, water won't stay. Building not plumb? ,,ok. the doors work . Peo
38 Mandala499: Well, even dropping it by Rp. 50,000 this time round doesn't solve the load factor... (cancellations and putting the pax onto 1 plane does, though in
39 Nitrohelper: Will Boeing have any "Technical Advisers" to provide help in reviewing the planes? Do you know if the NTSB sends any staff from the US to observe the
40 Mandala499: After some discussions... beginning to look like >MLW and a hard landing... seems the pilot didn't know he was over... Mandala499
41 OPNLguy: MLW on our -300s is 114,000 lbs., and I'd be curious to know what this one touched down with. Also, the sink rate and/or Gs if you hear about them...
42 Mandala499: OPNL, Probably slap about 800kg to 1.2 tons above whichever MLW it has... structurals exceeded, you wouldn't need a teeth bashing landing to get a ben
43 Flyorski: They are just grounding those maintained and flown by adam air. If there was no corruption in Indonesia...........It could be as safe as the 99% safe
44 Nwafflyer: Guess I'm just missing something then -- why the hard landing? Was the weather bad? Were there other issues? Just cannot imagine a landing hard enough
45 Electech6299: Thanks for the correction. Yes- refer to the article in OP there used to be some pics on the thread but must have been removed... Heavy rain squalls,
46 Mandala499: 18 more pilots in Adam grounded, 150 staff from various departments have been told to pack their bags... Looks like it IS having an effect on the comp
47 Electech6299: Great news! Maybe this will fix their ground ops shortage Just stay out of trouble... We can get the news a few days/weeks later without anyone getti
48 Electech6299: Correction...pics were on another thread: Adam Air Accident/incident Again @SUB, Injuries.
49 HAWK21M: Whats the Inspection Findings as on date. regds MEL
50 StarGoldLHR: The prototype VC10 on landing at LGW, and a DC9 where the tail snapped off on landing (there's a video of this out there somewhere). Both of these ar
51 Mandala499: And the Addams Family saga continues, yesterday Adamned Air's 732 RTBed to CGK while on the way to SOC. Pax reported loud bangs, however the airline d
52 HB-IWC: Well, all of the airline's current woes have not precluded Adam from throwing a fabulous birthday bash for himself in one of Indonesia's most exclusi
53 Mandala499: The trends show that "lack of corporate responsibility" is diminishing, even with the airlines, but Adam, is in a particular league of those who do no
54 GFFgold: It's true that access to domestic air travel has widened in recent years with the rise of the LCC's but this has not been at the expense of safety ex
55 Mandala499: GFFGold, There has been some nasty safety violations since the rise of the LCC but before the rise of Adam Air. A series of incidents and spiralling a
56 ContnlEliteCMH: Note to self... avoid flying in Indonesia. (Looks at list of African airlines and nods at the addition.)
57 WestJetYQQ: Simply looks like an Airline Going down the drain once again!