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EU Set To Ban Pakistan International  
User currently offlineAirpearl From Malaysia, joined May 2001, 943 posts, RR: 27
Posted (7 years 5 months 2 days 10 hours ago) and read 23955 times:

In breaking news this evening, Reuters reported that the European Union is set to ban most of Pakistan International Airlines’ fleet from flying to the 27-nation bloc because of safety concerns.

The source said a committee of experts had decided to block all but seven planes (presumably the newly delivered B777s) of the airline’s 40-plane fleet from flying to Europe for failing to meet international safety standards.

“Only those seven will be allowed to make flights to European Union countries,” the source told Reuters. “The rest of the fleet will be blacklisted.”

The decision is likely to come into force in about 10 days, the source said.

Rather shocking news if it comes true!

119 replies: All unread, showing first 25:
 
User currently offlineB777A340Fan From United States of America, joined Oct 2005, 764 posts, RR: 0
Reply 1, posted (7 years 5 months 2 days 10 hours ago) and read 23914 times:

Quoting Airpearl (Thread starter):
Rather shocking news if it comes true!

I wouldn't call it "shocking". If an airline fails to meet any country's standards and refuses to improve, I think it's the appropriate course of action....


User currently offlineOA260 From Ireland, joined Nov 2006, 26844 posts, RR: 58
Reply 2, posted (7 years 5 months 2 days 10 hours ago) and read 23833 times:

Well Im shocked !!! PIA are a good airline . I want to see the details and individual incidents to back up this EU proposal.

User currently offlineImiakhtar From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 3, posted (7 years 5 months 2 days 10 hours ago) and read 23687 times:

 Confused

Hmmm. Strange as it was only a few of months ago when the EU gave the go-ahead to operate B743s into the EU.
I guess this ban will not only affect flights to LHR (B743) but other EU cities that are served with the A310. If this is true then PK really does ned to get it's act together as they will lose a lot of custom if they drop the EU destinations due to a lack of "safe" aircraft.


User currently offlineCba From United States of America, joined Jul 2000, 4531 posts, RR: 3
Reply 4, posted (7 years 5 months 2 days 9 hours ago) and read 23514 times:

This is also going to hurt service to the US, as all of their flights to the US stopover in Europe IIRC.

User currently offlineYLWbased From Hong Kong, joined Jan 2006, 824 posts, RR: 4
Reply 5, posted (7 years 5 months 2 days 8 hours ago) and read 23297 times:

PIA maintenance is not bad, this is indeed shocking.


Hong Kong is not China. Not better or worse, just different.
User currently offlineNorcal773 From United States of America, joined Feb 2007, 1446 posts, RR: 12
Reply 6, posted (7 years 5 months 2 days 7 hours ago) and read 23251 times:

Wait, I thought they had 'banned' the 743's from flying to the UK a while ago. This truly is shocking. Sam Chui posted a very cool TR on a PIA 743 recently.


If you're going through hell, keep going
User currently offlineA342 From Germany, joined Jul 2005, 4680 posts, RR: 3
Reply 7, posted (7 years 5 months 2 days 7 hours ago) and read 23167 times:

Quoting Cba (Reply 4):
This is also going to hurt service to the US, as all of their flights to the US stopover in Europe IIRC.

If necessary, they could operate the flights via northern Africa.



Exceptions confirm the rule.
User currently offlineFlycro From United Kingdom, joined Feb 2004, 374 posts, RR: 0
Reply 8, posted (7 years 5 months 2 days 7 hours ago) and read 23134 times:

Whats shocking is that it taking 10 days to ban them. If they are that bad they should be banned now!

User currently offlineSebring From Canada, joined Jul 2004, 1663 posts, RR: 14
Reply 9, posted (7 years 5 months 2 days 7 hours ago) and read 23107 times:

Quoting A342 (Reply 7):

If necessary, they could operate the flights via northern Africa.

The question would be whether PK feels it has to move the 777s to serve major European markets rather than markets like Toronto or New York.


User currently offlineFlyorski From United States of America, joined Dec 2004, 987 posts, RR: 1
Reply 10, posted (7 years 5 months 2 days 7 hours ago) and read 23059 times:

Shocking news, PIA has long been considered relatively safe.....


"None are more hopelessly enslaved, than those who falsly believe they are free" -Goethe
User currently offlineDetroitflyer From United States of America, joined Oct 2006, 391 posts, RR: 0
Reply 11, posted (7 years 5 months 2 days 5 hours ago) and read 22360 times:

Wernt some of their jumbos recently banned?? They should have used that as a wake up call instead of getting further banned!!!
I guess this could mean some good news for emirates



Boiler Up!!!
User currently offlineEagle11 From United States of America, joined Dec 2006, 170 posts, RR: 0
Reply 12, posted (7 years 5 months 2 days 5 hours ago) and read 21724 times:

Quoting OA260 (Reply 2):
Well Im shocked !!! PIA are a good airline . I want to see the details and individual incidents to back up this EU proposal.

I agree. It never seemed to me that they had a bad reputation. There are other airlines that are far worse than PIA.

Hopefully whatever maintenance issue the EU found can be taken care of soon.



"The Eagle has landed"
User currently offlineKeesje From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 13, posted (7 years 5 months 2 days 5 hours ago) and read 21618 times:

Around 1990 I went into a PIA 747 making a stop between JFK & Islamabad. I still remember it because I was shocked by the mess in the cockpit (magazines / manuals everywhere), all the indicators of non functioning systems (flying with the MEL) and the circus in the passenger cabin (several lavatories jammed, people sleeping in the aisles, lack of airco..

It is a long time ago, but a few new 777 don´t make a decent airline.


User currently offlineImperialEagle From United States of America, joined Jan 2006, 2483 posts, RR: 23
Reply 14, posted (7 years 5 months 2 days 4 hours ago) and read 20921 times:
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Quoting Flycro (Reply 8):
Whats shocking is that it taking 10 days to ban them

Yeahhhh---- Thats what I'm thinking!!!!!!!!!!
Whats up with that-----politics as usual?
I am really surprised as I have always concidered PI a "stand-up" operator, however I am also aware that "time can change everything".

Seems pretty simple to me----
If they are that bad then shut 'em down right now. Otherwise shut-up!



"If everything seems under control, you're just not going fast enough!"
User currently offlineGARUDAROD From United States of America, joined Apr 2000, 1514 posts, RR: 1
Reply 15, posted (7 years 5 months 2 days 4 hours ago) and read 20429 times:

Yes, the PK B742's were banned a few months ago. They have had several incidents in particular
at MAN within the last couple of years. A couple of these have involved B777s as well if I recall.
The EU is not afraid to ban aircraft from respected airlines as well as from
countries that do not meet their strict standards.
DAS is one that is still trying to resolve their banned status.



Cargo doesn't whine, moan, or complain
User currently offlineB707Stu From United States of America, joined Feb 2005, 918 posts, RR: 4
Reply 16, posted (7 years 5 months 2 days 3 hours ago) and read 19082 times:

Wow, never nice when a major international carrier faces poor safety perceptions. Think how long is took KE to get their acts together. I hope PK does something in the next 10 days to correct this situation or there will be a lot of US-Pakistan passengers changing airlines, and quick. I'm sure if the EU is going to place a ban than the Americans won't be far behind. Those 777's are going to get a workout!

User currently offlineAtmx2000 From United States of America, joined Oct 2004, 4576 posts, RR: 38
Reply 17, posted (7 years 5 months 2 days 2 hours ago) and read 18952 times:

Quoting A342 (Reply 7):

If necessary, they could operate the flights via northern Africa.

It would depend on whether the US thinks security arrangements in a north African country are sufficient.



ConcordeBoy is a twin supremacist!! He supports quadicide!!
User currently offlineJimyvr From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 18, posted (7 years 5 months 2 days ago) and read 17056 times:

Quoting A342 (Reply 7):
If necessary, they could operate the flights via northern Africa.

The good old "southbound route"  Wink


User currently offlineAlitaliaMD11 From Spain, joined Dec 2003, 4068 posts, RR: 13
Reply 19, posted (7 years 5 months 1 day 23 hours ago) and read 16753 times:

Quoting Cba (Reply 4):
This is also going to hurt service to the US, as all of their flights to the US stopover in Europe IIRC.
However all US flights are operated by the 777-200ER and 777-200LR, which are presumably among the seven aircraft that will be allowed in the EU.

Considering PIA currently has:

2 777-300ER
2 777-200LR
2 777-200ER (A 3rd Coming soon)

That makes seven aircraft.

[Edited 2007-02-24 04:39:24]


No Vueling No Party
User currently offlineSayem55 From Pakistan, joined Jul 2001, 324 posts, RR: 0
Reply 20, posted (7 years 5 months 1 day 22 hours ago) and read 16378 times:

Shocking to say the least !!!!
I'd certainly like to know the details. B742s and A300s were bad, no doubt but I don't see anything wrong with 743s and A310s.



StarFighter
User currently offlineBilalaman From United States of America, joined Mar 2006, 31 posts, RR: 0
Reply 21, posted (7 years 5 months 1 day 22 hours ago) and read 16210 times:

Is it just air safety concerns of A310s & B742s? Or does the EU also consider PIA crew to lack airmanship and discipline?


Check 6
User currently offlineCXfirst From Norway, joined Jan 2007, 3032 posts, RR: 1
Reply 22, posted (7 years 5 months 1 day 21 hours ago) and read 15683 times:

If this is true, they better get some new planes in quickly, or lose a lot of money-making routes.

Where will they redirect their fleet?

-CXfirst



From Norway, live in Australia
User currently offlinePiedmont767LGW From United States of America, joined Mar 2006, 11 posts, RR: 0
Reply 23, posted (7 years 5 months 1 day 21 hours ago) and read 15601 times:

Quoting GARUDAROD (Reply 15):
A couple of these have involved B777s as well if I recall.

Yes they have...as recently as Feb 15 when a PIA 777 cliped another a/c while taxiing. This was the reason that there were two PIA 777's at MAN on Friday Feb 16. Spotters might have noticed around 11:00 UTC, one was at a gate, and the other was on the hard stand. The a/c on the hard stand was the one reportedly involved in the incident on 2/15. Sorry but I wasn't able to see the registration of the a/c involved in the incident.


User currently offlineMah584jr From United States of America, joined Mar 2006, 506 posts, RR: 0
Reply 24, posted (7 years 5 months 1 day 21 hours ago) and read 15428 times:

That airline is in need of a major overhaul anyway. Their aircraft are outdated and have experienced numerous small eqp. failures in the past few years. A310's and 743's are considered hand-me-down aircraft, for lack of a better word. I do like the 777s tho.

25 PIA777 : What did they fail? They fly basically the same type of aircraft as anyone else. They haven not had any of their 747s or A310s crash. PIA777
26 PIA777 : Their Maintenace is well respected. Other Airlines have used PIA to do Maintenance. PIA777
27 UK_Dispatcher : It was actually a 74M (B747-200 Combi), of which PK operate two. I am working in ISB next week and am thinking of ending the trip with a 74M flight I
28 Gigneil : I don't see why you would see any difference. 747-200s and A300s properly maintained are just as safe as properly maintained 747-300s and A310s. Thos
29 XT6Wagon : The problem is that they WILL be safter if not maintained properly... for a while. New planes don't require alot of the things high cycle/older aircr
30 Graphic : Well actually Oh... what that guy said. See now PK has to make certain choices, like what's more important: Manchester AND Paris, or Manchester AND N
31 Airpearl : As reported today in Pakistan's Daily Times A senior official at the Pakistan High Commission in London told the Pakistan International Airlines headq
32 Post contains images Stylo777 : why do these old planes still fly? because they are all good maintained. logic or not???
33 Post contains links Seabiscuit : According to the Arab Times: 1) PIA operates 16 flights in 8 countries in the EU 2) Can lease additional aircraft/crew http://www.arabtimesonline.com/
34 BestWestern : The EU wouldnt ban an airline unless it had reason to do so.... Im amazed that people here question the safety committees of the EU, and demand facts.
35 Post contains links 777way : Photos of PIA's fourth 777-200ER to be delivered next month http://www.flickr.com/photo_zoom.gne?id=400405351&size=m close up of tail art work http://
36 Kaitak : Exactly, Best Western; as if to make matters worse, the Indian press will have an absolute field day with this. You can just imagine the Times of Ind
37 Bravo45 : I have been unable to find ONE specific thing the the EU wanted to have fixed, since the drama began a while back. Its all rumors as to what exactly
38 Estabulla : I think PK has bigger fish to fry than worry about negative publicity by the Indian Press. Pakistan's press would not hesitate to reciprocate their f
39 Post contains images Leskova : Maybe not bad, but they've certainly always been quite a long way from having a good one. Which, in itself, really isn't something to be proud of...
40 Post contains links Bilalaman : Reuters reports "Its most profitable routes were to the Middle East and Britain." http://in.today.reuters.com/news/new...NOOTR_RTRJONC_0_India-289047-
41 BestWestern : He deserves to be sacked, as the buck stops with him. The fact that the EU have permitted the flying of Boeing, and banned the Airbus fleet demonstra
42 JakTrax : That actually makes 8 777 aircraft - 2x 777-300ER (AP-BHV/W), 2x 777-200LR (AP-BGY/Z) and 3x 777-200ER (AP-BGJ/K/L) with a further -200ER due soon (A
43 Pred02 : The EU safety checks are not based on the crash record, but rather on random inspection checks when landing at EU airports, and maintenance records a
44 Egghead : Good opportunity for Mid East based carriers. Would any EU based carrier be interested in starting service to Pakistan now?
45 Bilalaman : The News International: ‘PIA unaware of any ban on flights to EU destinations’ KARACHI: A news item which appeared in a section of the press quote
46 Gr8Circle : I'd like to point out that the Indian press does not waste their time revelling in setbacks to such news from across the border....everyone understan
47 Gr8Circle : I'd like to point out that the Indian press do not waste their time revelling in such news from across the border....everyone understands that it cou
48 Mah584jr : The problems of PIA have been slowly building up with time. PIA might be considered lucky that nothing catastrophic has occurred. Much of this has fl
49 Post contains images Jacobin777 : ...IIRC, turned out to be an ATC error rather than pilot error... That being said.....I'm planning on fly on PK from JFK in about 4-6 weeks....fortun
50 BigTom : I don't think people in Pakistan are going to worry too much attention to what the Indian media would say. Most of them don't pay too much attention
51 Gigneil : "Safety concerns" from the second largest aviation regulatory body on the planet is MORE than good enough for me. NS
52 Bilalaman : How is Biman allowed to fly DC-10's to UK etc? Those jets have to be very old?
53 AlitaliaMD11 : I could be wrong but I believe there was a brief ban of Biman DC-10's in the UK and I believe they have been banned from flying to the United States
54 Bilalaman : Do you know if US ever banned PIA 747-200's?
55 AlitaliaMD11 : I don't think the US ever banned PIA aircraft, just the UK. Up until September PIA was bringing in the 747-200 to JFK.
56 Bravo45 : US didn't allow the 772LR flights direct from Lahore, nothing wrong with the a/c just security concerns at OPLA. Yeah, would do anything to know the
57 Nimish : Not happened yet, hopefully will be a small column somewhere inside the papers. That being said, if this does happen, it may be time for AI to operat
58 StarGoldLHR : When charging fares like £150 from MAN to the US all in... you have to wonder how their making any money... and I guess this shows how. Apparently th
59 GayrugbyMAN : £150 all-in from MAN to the USA???!!!! Why hasn't anyone told us MAN employees about this?! Why? Because it's cobblers! Their transit flights are so
60 Helvknight : (tinfoil hat) ah but these are bought and paid for A310s, the price is new A330s or 340s or even 380s. (/tinfoil hat) Unfortunately conspiracy theori
61 BFS2007 : Hi Where are the PIA fleet maintained, is it in somewhere in Europe or is it in Pakistan.
62 Jacobin777 : those fares to the United States are basically for 5th freedom flights.....PK never got too many pax on USA-MAN-USA flights...
63 Post contains links Imiakhtar : In Pakistan. http://www.piac.com.pk/PIA_Engineering/pia-engineering.aspx
64 AirMalta : I am rather curious how the EU ban works? I havent heared of a Pakistani Crashes recently...but in Nigeria?Any comments?Why they dont ban 5N register?
65 OA260 : They sell these fares for £150 nett to their top GSA travel agents in BHX MAN LON , taxes are on top. Most passengers are indeed transit from Pakist
66 Mypaks : I still do not know what ban is all about. Safety concerns or bad interior or inferior airmanship. I have traveled PIA quite a few time, trust me some
67 Post contains links Mypaks : Here's an update by www.dailytimes.com.pk, ================= ISLAMABAD: The Federal Republic of Germany has cast the first stone against the Pakistan
68 AirMalta : PIA website states that safety concerns are a prioritiy and also the maintenance are that of EASA facility!! Maybe because its 747 are too old to fly?
69 Stylo777 : yes that's right! my colleague at Fraport (the handling agent for PIA at FRA) just told me that PK is banned and that they do all the passengers on t
70 LH121GLA : Does anyone know if tomorrow's LHE-GLA-LHE A310 service is operating as planned?
71 LHStarAlliance : If PK is not safe the EU must ban them IMHO ...
72 A342 : And your result is wrong. They didn't ban the Pakistani register, just certain aircraft from PIA. Btw, PIA recently had a F27 crash, killing all on b
73 UK_Dispatcher : PIA's F27 fleet was finally grounded after this crash. I was lucky enough to catch a flight on one last year. More brand new ATR-42s are now arriving
74 OA260 : The company that I work in has banned all flight bookings of PK as of today !!!!
75 777way : PK-TK only code share ISB-IST-ISB not FRA. unrelated but GLA and BHX are to be upped to 777.
76 Stylo777 : as I worked months ago for Fraport, the flight was indeed a code-share, because we had a lot of passengers with tickets of TK.
77 Post contains links HKA : I have heard PIA used to be one of the best airlines in the 60's and 70's. I have also heard that some of the PIA management people made a significant
78 OA260 : Yes I totally agree and it is upsetting to see a great airline like PIA have this situation. I just hope they can get everything sorted and get back
79 GLAGAZ : When? Gaz
80 AirMalta : you are right they banned PIA I wanted to point out that there were far more crashes in Nigeria than in Pakistan.And of the COA is ok why do you ban
81 Post contains images Bravo45 : Correct, in fact EK actually started its operations in a leased and repainted PIA A300 with PIA crews etc. Good for EK, they implemented the policies
82 Stylo777 : If you make a comparison: PK - A310 (all built between 1991-94) TK - A310 (built between 1985-89) TP - A310 (built between 1989-92) is there really a
83 757ops : So seeing the 10 days to go post was on 23rd of February we are now very close to the deadline so does anyone have any info if the ban is going ahead?
84 Gr8Circle : Just out of curiousity, when did PK get it's first jet plane...?
85 B747-437B : This will forever be a matter of dispute. PIA took a 707 on wetlease (operated by Pan Am) on 9 February 1960, but Air India's first 707 was actually
86 Post contains images Gr8Circle : Hey, thanks for that info....I never knew about the PIA 707's from Pan Am or the AI leasing of Comets....news for me...
87 A342 : I don't understand what you want to say, what does COA mean ?
88 AirMalta : COA = Certification of Airworthiness in short is it possible you havent seen this abbreviation in books or articles? malc
89 A342 : Ok, but that applies only to aircraft, not the airline ?
90 Post contains links LJ : Hewa Bora isn't the only airline from Congo which offered flights to Europe (and even they are only alloiwed to fly to Europe which specofoc aircraft
91 AirMalta : " target=_blank>http://ec.europa.eu/transport/air-ba...n.pdf is this site updated somewhere pls?they said they will update every 3months at least malc
92 Post contains links KHI747 : The situation seems to get more and more interesting: http://www.dawn.com/2007/03/03/nat3.htm ISLAMABAD, March 2: Britain on Friday became the second
93 Post contains links GLAGAZ : "This just in: Glasgow to be combined with Frankfurt. B777 Fri and Mon." http://www.historyofpia.com/forums/viewtopic.php?t=8165 Gaz
94 OA260 : I wonder if you can fly GLA - FRA
95 CX747 : Is the condition of PIA's 747s and A310s that bad?
96 JakTrax : Most interesting will be what PIA will inevitably lease in their desperation. I don't think they will simply cancel all flights (although I'm sure the
97 LimaNiner : Back in the 80's, the joke went that "PIA" stood for "Please Inform Allah" (the implication being "of my impending arrival")...
98 CX747 : What exactly did PIA do or not do to warrant this action?
99 Post contains links Atmx2000 : PIA to buy airbuses to appease EU, UK Asked if the EU safety committee had asked PIA to replace its old aircraft with those made in Europe, they said
100 LimaNiner : Puh-leeze! This couldn't *possibly* be PIA's fault -- it *must* be the evil ex-colonial European bastards who are trying to pressure PIA into buying
101 Bravo45 : Please don't wrap everyone into the blanket because of one pesky newspaper. What else can be expected of mainstream media ANYWHERE when it comes to a
102 B707Stu : I just don't buy this ban. There's a lot more to this ban than aircraft concerns. PIA has not had a major accident in a long time and have continued t
103 CX747 : I will again ask, what infractions has PIA committed to warrant this ban? In my opinion, it has to be aircraft related because they are allowed to con
104 Post contains links CX747 : Here is an article from the BBC. It looks like the EU is calling for PIA to revamp its ageing fleet. While this is not a trade journal, the EU's wishe
105 Jmc757 : We will never know the detail behind all this, they don't tell us that sort of information. But its not just because the aircraft are old. If it was
106 JakTrax : I think the actual reason why PIA have been banned with older aircraft is a very sensitive issue - one which requires a very subtle and diplomatic app
107 Imiakhtar : PK have got a B772-ER (leased through ILFC) which is to be delivered within the week. Maybe they will once again turn to MH for a lease...who knows!
108 CX747 : Hmm, Sam Chui recently posted a trip report on a PIA 747-200 and the cabin etc seemed to be in fine working order. With that said, it was only 1 747 o
109 Post contains links BuyantUkhaa : Updated list now available: http://ec.europa.eu/transport/air-ban/pdf/list_en.pdf PIA is at the end of the document.
110 JakTrax : AP-BHX will route through MAN on delivery, as all the latest PIA 777s have done. No fixed date yet though, so I doubt it will be delivered this week.
111 JakTrax : ***UPDATE*** My apologies, AP-BHX is due to route through MAN on Friday (9th) at 10:00. Karl
112 LHStarAlliance : Why are they still flying to europe ?? Manchester : A PK701 05 Mar 10:25 Islamabad Arrived 5 Mar 10:14
113 JakTrax : This was operated today by AP-BHW, a 777-300ER. Delivered only weeks ago this aircraft and the rest of the PIA 777 fleet are still allowed to operate
114 777way : Norway have also banned them now.
115 JakTrax : I've just posted similar in another thread concerning PIA. I wonder if the ban has anything at all to do with the incident a few months back concernin
116 Jacobin777 : I've flown on PK more than enough over the years, I've never seen this happen.....my family and other relatives always fly on PK..in fact, my aunt/co
117 777way : That was a malicious rumor and the F/A was Hindu, since it was reported by an unknown tabloid type paper, its not to be taken seriously.
118 CX747 : Do we have any updates on this matter?
119 777way : Netherlands have also banned them.
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