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Virgin America Leasing Out Aircraft  
User currently offlineAirlineFanatic From United States of America, joined Mar 2004, 222 posts, RR: 0
Posted (7 years 1 month 3 weeks 3 days 22 hours ago) and read 12765 times:

http://yahoo.reuters.com/news/articl...47_N23329143&type=comktNews&rpc=44

WASHINGTON, Feb 23 (Reuters) - Virgin America, the fledgling airline with ties to British entrepreneur Richard Branson, has begun leasing Airbus A320s to others to generate revenue as it struggles to win permission from the U.S. government to operate, its chief executive said on Friday.

Fred Reid told reporters after a speech to an industry group that the company has finalized two leases with a U.S. start-up airline and is in the process of negotiating two more leases with a foreign carrier he would not name.

Reid said the leases were short-term in case Virgin America needed to take the planes back for its own operations.

69 replies: All unread, showing first 25:
 
User currently offlineB6sFinest From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 1, posted (7 years 1 month 3 weeks 3 days 22 hours ago) and read 12729 times:

2 planes to a start up airline in the US...Hmmm...Skybus!!!

User currently offlineRichierich From United States of America, joined Nov 2000, 4199 posts, RR: 6
Reply 2, posted (7 years 1 month 3 weeks 3 days 22 hours ago) and read 12729 times:

I thought I read that Skybus was one of the start-up airlines on the receiving end.

well, they have to do something while twiddling their thumbs and waiting!



None shall pass!!!!
User currently offlineSANFan From United States of America, joined Aug 2006, 5221 posts, RR: 14
Reply 3, posted (7 years 1 month 3 weeks 3 days 21 hours ago) and read 12620 times:

Although Skybus is also waiting to recieve its certification to start flying, is it not?

That's a lot of expensive, almost brand-new Airbi sitting around collecting dust. Hmmmm, anybody got F9's phone number handy?

bb


User currently offlineMariner From New Zealand, joined Nov 2001, 24631 posts, RR: 86
Reply 4, posted (7 years 1 month 3 weeks 3 days 21 hours ago) and read 12369 times:
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Quoting SANFan (Reply 3):
That's a lot of expensive, almost brand-new Airbi sitting around collecting dust.

It's a puzzlement.

About a month ago, one of the investors said there was "about" a six month time limit on it, that after six months (five now) the investment becomes meaningless (code for "airline doesn't happen").

If they get their certificate, then I guess all is well, and if they don't I am sure there is a ready market for those A320's already delivered.

Quoting SANFan (Reply 3):
anybody got F9's phone number handy?

I don't know if Frontier would be in the market - they have had several opportunites to acquire recently delivered/nearly new A319's and A320's but have always passed. They even passed on their own options to transfer some A319 aircraft to A320 a couple of years ago.

BUT -

- if Virgin America "doesn't happen", a whole slew of delivery slots opens up in the A320 production line. Would that affect Frontier?

When they first ordered the Airbus aircraft, they advanced the delivery of the first two A319's by a few months because some slots in the production line became available earlier than expected.

The first A320 is due to be delivered to Frontier in 12 months. I don't know if they would want them any earlier?

mariner



aeternum nauta
User currently offlineLightsaber From United States of America, joined Jan 2005, 12414 posts, RR: 100
Reply 5, posted (7 years 1 month 3 weeks 3 days 21 hours ago) and read 12251 times:
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Quoting Mariner (Reply 4):
I don't know if Frontier would be in the market - they have had several opportunites to acquire recently delivered/nearly new A319's and A320's but have always passed. They even passed on their own options to transfer some A319 aircraft to A320 a couple of years ago.

BUT -

- if Virgin America "doesn't happen", a whole slew of delivery slots opens up in the A320 production line. Would that affect Frontier?

When they first ordered the Airbus aircraft, they advanced the delivery of the first two A319's by a few months because some slots in the production line became available earlier than expected.

The first A320 is due to be delivered to Frontier in 12 months. I don't know if they would want them any earlier?

Mariner,

I'm actually suprised by this. While I know F9 is conservative in their growth plans, it looks like they could really use a few more on short notice. Or is the Q400 purchase dominating their short term mind frame? Speaking of which, when do the Q400's come on board? (I lost the ball on that order.)

I also wonder how short term of a lease Virg America can offer and still make taking the airframes... attractive.

F9 should grab a bit more SFO traffic before Virg America becomes reality. Although I'll admit I do not know which "bypass" destinations would make sense for them... Not to mention WN entering SFO is... huge.

I give Virg America only a 50/50 chance of getting their flight certificate.  Sad Cest la vie.

Got popcorn?
Lightsaber



I've posted how many times?!?
User currently offlineDeltaL1011man From United States of America, joined Sep 2005, 9073 posts, RR: 12
Reply 6, posted (7 years 1 month 3 weeks 3 days 21 hours ago) and read 12232 times:

Good i hope the US government will say NO then they can just sell those planes!!


yep.
User currently offlineCadet57 From United States of America, joined Jul 2005, 9085 posts, RR: 31
Reply 7, posted (7 years 1 month 3 weeks 3 days 20 hours ago) and read 12054 times:

Quoting DeltaL1011man (Reply 6):
Good i hope the US government will say NO then they can just sell those planes!!

Why? and why is there such a stigma against Skybus and VA? Y'all afraid of someone better then your all powerful legacy carriers?



Doors open, right hand side, next stop is Springfield.
User currently offlineDAYflyer From United States of America, joined Sep 2004, 3807 posts, RR: 3
Reply 8, posted (7 years 1 month 3 weeks 3 days 20 hours ago) and read 12020 times:

Quoting Cadet57 (Reply 7):
Why? and why is there such a stigma against Skybus and VA? Y'all afraid of someone better then your all powerful legacy carriers?

No, we just have about 500 airlines operating here already and really dont need anymore. There is already a glut of competition.



One Nation Under God
User currently offlineCadet57 From United States of America, joined Jul 2005, 9085 posts, RR: 31
Reply 9, posted (7 years 1 month 3 weeks 3 days 20 hours ago) and read 11934 times:

Quoting DAYflyer (Reply 8):
No, we just have about 500 airlines operating here already and really dont need anymore.

Yes... we have 500 airlines operating nationwide and they all compete on all the same routes and oh, look they all have the same substandard service!  sarcastic 



Doors open, right hand side, next stop is Springfield.
User currently offlineKingCavalier From United States of America, joined Nov 2006, 1297 posts, RR: 18
Reply 10, posted (7 years 1 month 3 weeks 3 days 19 hours ago) and read 11876 times:
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Quoting Lightsaber (Reply 5):
when do the Q400's come on board?

May



Travel is fatal to prejudice, bigotry, and narrow-mindedness
User currently offlineRolo987 From United States of America, joined Aug 2001, 293 posts, RR: 0
Reply 11, posted (7 years 1 month 3 weeks 3 days 19 hours ago) and read 11851 times:

Quoting Cadet57 (Reply 9):
Yes... we have 500 airlines operating nationwide and they all compete on all the same routes and oh, look they all have the same substandard service! sarcastic

Cadet57 I totally agree with you


User currently offlineMariner From New Zealand, joined Nov 2001, 24631 posts, RR: 86
Reply 12, posted (7 years 1 month 3 weeks 3 days 18 hours ago) and read 11503 times:
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Quoting Lightsaber (Reply 5):
While I know F9 is conservative in their growth plans, it looks like they could really use a few more on short notice.

They have five A319/A318 coming between now and June (one - N950FR - already here by a day or two) plus the start of delivery of the Q400's in May. Plus dealing with the E170's - Republic's concern, but Frontier is involved in making sure the transtion is smooth.

T'ain't bad growth for one year - especially with a lot of new stations to start up. And the staffing considerations. I think they are probably happy t leave thiungs as they are now.

There is also the (small) problem that the VA A320's have a premium caboin - admittedly the first couple of E170's will have a premium cabin as well (last I heard) until the seating can be changed.

But - there is still the question of possible earlier A320 production slots if VA doesn't fly.

mariner



aeternum nauta
User currently offlineSkyzheimers From United States of America, joined Jan 2007, 75 posts, RR: 0
Reply 13, posted (7 years 1 month 3 weeks 3 days 18 hours ago) and read 11446 times:

I believe F9's strategy is going to build traffic at their hub first by connecting smaller communities that SW won't fly to... don't think they're interested in VA's airbuses at this time... I also wouldn't be surprised if they rethink their MEM plans...

User currently offlineMariner From New Zealand, joined Nov 2001, 24631 posts, RR: 86
Reply 14, posted (7 years 1 month 3 weeks 3 days 18 hours ago) and read 11384 times:
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Quoting Skyzheimers (Reply 13):
I believe F9's strategy is going to build traffic at their hub first by connecting smaller communities that SW won't fly to.

That is the plan for Lynx/Q400's - Frontier Express - but not for mainline.

Quoting Skyzheimers (Reply 13):
I also wouldn't be surprised if they rethink their MEM plans...

Why should they do that? I doubt that Norhwest's retaliation was any surprise to them.

mariner



aeternum nauta
User currently offlineLightsaber From United States of America, joined Jan 2005, 12414 posts, RR: 100
Reply 15, posted (7 years 1 month 3 weeks 3 days 18 hours ago) and read 11352 times:
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Quoting Mariner (Reply 12):

They have five A319/A318 coming between now and June (one - N950FR - already here by a day or two) plus the start of delivery of the Q400's in May. Plus dealing with the E170's - Republic's concern, but Frontier is involved in making sure the transtion is smooth.

T'ain't bad growth for one year - especially with a lot of new stations to start up. And the staffing considerations. I think they are probably happy t leave thiungs as they are now.

There is also the (small) problem that the VA A320's have a premium caboin - admittedly the first couple of E170's will have a premium cabin as well (last I heard) until the seating can be changed.

But - there is still the question of possible earlier A320 production slots if VA doesn't fly.

Thanks for the info.

That is a bit of growth for Frontier.

Its interesting that the E170's will have a premium cabin for a bit... an amusing "oops" for F9.  Wink

IIRC, the Q400's are coming in at about one a month? So F9 will hae a good growth year.

Question:
How is the gate situation for them at DEN?

As to virg America... I doubt they'll give up soon. At least they're conserving cash by leasing out the aircraft.

Lightsaber



I've posted how many times?!?
User currently offlineDeltaL1011man From United States of America, joined Sep 2005, 9073 posts, RR: 12
Reply 16, posted (7 years 1 month 3 weeks 3 days 18 hours ago) and read 11351 times:

Quoting Cadet57 (Reply 7):
Why? and why is there such a stigma against Skybus and VA? Y'all afraid of someone better then your all powerful legacy carriers?

is if DL where to movie its HQ over to Poland you would be just fine? Its a thing of pride i dont want a company(any) to be owned by another company that is based overseas. along with that how can you say your an American airline and not fly A/C made in America(that is why i HATE US) But i also think that AF KL BA should be flying Airbus. Also i think that AA,CO,DL,NW,UA could crush Virgin America if they really wanted to. No i'm scared that they will effect my all and powerful carriers because they won't. BUT i want an airline made and owned by AMERICA not a oversea country.



yep.
User currently offlineBigGSFO From United States of America, joined Jun 2005, 2887 posts, RR: 6
Reply 17, posted (7 years 1 month 3 weeks 3 days 18 hours ago) and read 11310 times:

Quoting Lightsaber (Reply 15):
At least they're conserving cash by leasing out the aircraft.

"Conserving cash?" You mean "not bleeding cash" by leasing out their buses. I am guessing here, but I imagine the lease payments won't cover expenses.  Smile

Quoting Skyzheimers (Reply 13):
I also wouldn't be surprised if they rethink their MEM plans...

Huh? What does MEM have to do with VX's buses? Even if they were to open up delivery slots, which could theorhetically allow F9 to acquire more aircraft (if they wanted), why would this cause a rethinking of Memphis?? Or were you adding another F9 thought to the mix?


User currently offlineN917ME From United States of America, joined Feb 2005, 726 posts, RR: 1
Reply 18, posted (7 years 1 month 3 weeks 3 days 18 hours ago) and read 11279 times:

If A320 slots open, maybe we may hear YX palce and order to start replacing their MD80's

User currently offlineSkyzheimers From United States of America, joined Jan 2007, 75 posts, RR: 0
Reply 19, posted (7 years 1 month 3 weeks 3 days 17 hours ago) and read 10894 times:

That is the plan for Lynx/Q400's - Frontier Express - but not for mainline
that's correct and they will feed into the Airbuses waiting at DEN and vice versa...

Huh? What does MEM have to do with VX's buses?
you allocate equipment to open one market but end up pulling the plug than you have frames being freed up to go somewhere else and you don't need to lease them from Virgin...

Frontier has a hard time as is to fill their planes - load factor last month was around 65%... their strategy with the Q400s and E170 is to connect smaller markets that Southwest won't touch and feed the bigger frames at DEN that compete with SW and UA...


User currently offlineSirOmega From United States of America, joined Sep 2005, 735 posts, RR: 0
Reply 20, posted (7 years 1 month 3 weeks 3 days 17 hours ago) and read 10894 times:

Why not lease them to Jetblue so they can operate their network? ::ducks::

User currently offlineSkyzheimers From United States of America, joined Jan 2007, 75 posts, RR: 0
Reply 21, posted (7 years 1 month 3 weeks 3 days 17 hours ago) and read 10793 times:

Why not lease them to Jetblue so they can operate their network? ::ducks::

 rotfl 


User currently offlineMariner From New Zealand, joined Nov 2001, 24631 posts, RR: 86
Reply 22, posted (7 years 1 month 3 weeks 3 days 17 hours ago) and read 10655 times:
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Quoting Skyzheimers (Reply 19):
Frontier has a hard time as is to fill their planes - load factor last month was around 65%.

Frontier always has that sort of load factor in January. Southwest's in January was 63%.

Quoting Skyzheimers (Reply 19):
their strategy with the Q400s and E170 is to connect smaller markets that Southwest won't touch and feed the bigger frames at DEN that compete with SW and UA...

The Q400's, yes. But the E170's are flying DEN-SDF, for example, and Southwest serves SDF, just not from DEN. Similarly, the E170's will fly some of the LAX-SFO frequencies - a potential Southwest route, I am told.

I think the debate is that since Frontier will have A320's within 12 months, why not sub-lease some from VA in the meantime. I tried to address that above in post #12.

Quoting Lightsaber (Reply 15):
Its interesting that the E170's will have a premium cabin for a bit... an amusing "oops" for F9.  

I believe Frontier is going to allocate the premium seats to Elite FF members. Could this start a trend?  Smile

mariner



aeternum nauta
User currently offlineSkyzheimers From United States of America, joined Jan 2007, 75 posts, RR: 0
Reply 23, posted (7 years 1 month 3 weeks 3 days 17 hours ago) and read 10493 times:

"think the debate is that since Frontier will have A320's within 12 months, why not sub-lease some from VA in the meantime. I tried to address that above in post #12."

because they're building more connecting traffic before they're ready for more larger frames...
I've been trying to address that inpost 13 & 19  Big grin


User currently offlineBlueElephant From United Kingdom, joined Dec 2006, 1813 posts, RR: 6
Reply 24, posted (7 years 1 month 3 weeks 3 days 17 hours ago) and read 10382 times:

Quoting B6sFinest (Reply 1):
2 planes to a start up airline in the US...Hmmm...Skybus!!!



Quoting Richierich (Reply 2):
I thought I read that Skybus was one of the start-up airlines on the receiving end.

You Guys are correct, Skybus, has 2 aircraft. I know 1 for sure is N521VA which was leased from Virgin America, and I believe the second one is two.

Quoting SANFan (Reply 3):
Although Skybus is also waiting to recieve its certification to start flying, is it not?

A member of the Skybus team came to speak to our class, he said FAA Proving runs will start within the next two weeks.
According to him, if everything goes well, they look to start service in the first week of May...(May 1st was suggested in the Columbus Dispatch)


25 SANFan : Mariner, I have a question for which I would, as always, appreciate your opinion. (It's loosely on-topic anyway...) In discussing F9 and VX, there is
26 Acabgd : Dude, you have some serious problems, really. I don't think anyone in Europe or the rest of the World reasoned like you some 30 years ago when 80 or
27 JoeCattoli : I fully agree.. competition have to grow... If DeltaL1011 don't like them he lives in a free country so he's free not to fly'em. VA should fly. Ciao
28 Post contains images MXA318 : Obviously the rest of the world believes in utilizing the right equipment, the right personnel and proper customer service regardless of where it com
29 Captaink : Half of which are rather crappy. So maybe let them put up or shut up. That is to say if they can't make it, it doesn't make sense flogging a dead hor
30 Post contains images Mariner : Several Frontier routes out of DEN are already ready for larger frames, and have been for some time. A lot of it has to do with the old debate about
31 Bistro1200 : By definition, they can't *ALL* be substandard! By that measure, who is standard? I think that service standard is an outdated concept dating from be
32 Ikramerica : VA may be singing a familiar song depending on the responses to their modified filing. "I fought the law, and the law won..." Whether or not anyone ag
33 Skyzheimers : " A lot of it has to do with the old debate about capacity versus frequency" NO, it has to do with making a profit... SW with a 63% load factor will s
34 Post contains images Skyzheimers : " the whole notion of airlines "screwing" passengers is groupthink and anecdotal at best"
35 Mariner : Since the Frontier CEO has said that the purchase of the A320 involves the debate about capacity versus frequency, I am not sure why you would disagr
36 Post contains images Skyzheimers : " They are introducing 15 new aircraft this year. Why would they want more?" well that's exactly my point... so we agree!
37 Mariner : Yes. As I said in post #4: mariner
38 KstateinALB : It's the US. There might be a lot of competition, but in the end, its pretty much survival of the fittest. I would rather see VA get off the ground a
39 Post contains images Skyzheimers : so how was that flight on a Short Sunderland?
40 Post contains images Mariner : Sorry - I don't remember too much of what happened when I was six months old. The Stratocruisers and the Constellations and the Argonaouts and the He
41 Post contains images Electech6299 : One thing I find interesting, and the second disturbing: 1) It happened just days (that's lightning speed in aviation) after the DOT announcement of a
42 DeltaL1011man : hey i haven't herd a single American that wants that airline to fly AND i dont of ANY airline that wants them here! so i say take the point and GET O
43 Mariner : And lower airfares is an essential element of the creation of more traffic. The most recent example being DEN, where fares dropped when Southwest arr
44 PanAm747LHR : Ok, Let's get something straight - You do not speak for all americans, so stop saying that you do. I'm american, and I'd love to see Virgin America t
45 Oldtimer : Well said PanAm747LHR, this kid wants to also realise that this is a European owned and run site, and to use his own (DeltaL1011) thinking he should n
46 Lumberton : Leasing is a very good move; probably the only "move" they have at this point. It's still far from certain whether they will be granted a license to
47 Steeler83 : How about Bayer Asprin for aches and pains? That is made over in Germany... I used to drive a Ford... but I traded it in for a Hyundai. So basically
48 VictorKilo : VA leasing out aircraft is a smart business decision, but only because of a bad business decision on VA's part. Whether or not VA would be good or bad
49 KstateinALB : Unfortunetly, very wrong. I would love to see them fly. They have every right to attempt business in the U.S. They can go bankrupt in 5 months, or th
50 DeltaL1011man : well i guess your the one with "ignorance" when you can't even read what i said! Where in there do i say that i speak for all Americans? I said i hav
51 Post contains images JoeCattoli : Well.. don't know if you usually read the posts.. Wow.. what an endandangered species therefore Well said.. a lot of people just fail to see the line
52 BrianDromey : Why should VA be kept out? If you knew what you were talking about you would know that they are "AMERICAN owned". The issue with VA is that the Virgi
53 ATCT : The way I look at it, this is the truest form of Capitalism. Survival of the Fittest. Personally, I think we need another carrier or two. Spirit and
54 Acabgd : No need to apologize - we're smart enough to know that. But thanks for your reaction.
55 Acabgd : I would suggest you should, as a proud American, urgently get some courses/lessons in *American* English language spelling and grammar. Go tell that
56 PanAm747LHR : First let's address a few spelling/grammar issues before we get to the airline issues. "You're" when used as a contraction of "you are" is spelled "y
57 PanAm747LHR : You do realize that BA AF and KL, by nature of being major Boeing customers, have contributed large amounts of money to the economy you live off of,
58 Post contains images Electech6299 : Hmmm, how do you like your independence? Remember Independence Air? Not a singe American-made aircraft in the fleet. Seriously, after you finish gram
59 PanAm747LHR : Wow - I can't believe I'd type something that dumb. Aparently I need to be awake before I start typing. That'll teach me to be harsh. Thank you, Elec
60 Airbrasil : The two other A320's went to TAm in Sao Paulo. The planes are already in Brasil flying for TAM. Airbrasil
61 Post contains images Electech6299 : Don't mention it.. (Or all the dumb mistakes I've made here on A-net either!) Just enjoying some fun, that's all. So, for the fleet watchers, how man
62 Airbrasil : Did everyone see the letVAfly.com and the photos of the interior decoration.> How smuch would cost to replace all the config to TAM and others for a s
63 Electech6299 : Thanks! Are they repainted (however temporarily) in TAM livery, or are they in full Va livery, or some thing in between? (e.g. paint original, VA log
64 Aloha717200 : I seriously doubt that Virgin America will ever become a fully-functional airline operation...it's taken too long already.
65 FFlyer : Hey guys; DL1011Man is 13 - 15 years old. Act like good teachers, positively, gently. Educate, don't punish. I trust he will grow up to become a knowl
66 Mptpa : i do not think the leases are for Skybus as they plan to start towards end of Dec 08, right? May be the leases are for Air Asis??
67 Viasa : I know that N621VA and N623VA would go to TAM as PR-MHE and PR-MHF. But I think that both are still in the USA. And both aircraft are still in the FA
68 Post contains images ANother : I was about to make a similar comment, but he made another post before I could react. I lost almost all of my sympathy for him, I really hate I certa
69 Bingo : I know its been said but AMEN!!! Welcome to my RU List!!! The mere fact that an airline can even be allowed to use jets made abroad and start up with
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