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Radio Scanner On An Airliner  
User currently offlineN723GW From United States of America, joined Nov 2005, 232 posts, RR: 0
Posted (7 years 9 months 4 weeks 1 day 18 hours ago) and read 4540 times:

Just wondering if it is ok or not to bring a scanner on board to listen to while in flight. I can't imagaine it being a big deal, specifially for AS, any one know?


The dude abides
55 replies: All unread, showing first 25:
 
User currently offlineIslesFan From United States of America, joined Feb 2007, 10 posts, RR: 0
Reply 1, posted (7 years 9 months 4 weeks 1 day 18 hours ago) and read 4520 times:

Every airline I've been on lately forbids it, along with FM radios. (Southwest/ATA/Delta/AA/Contential). I wonder if it's more of a liability issue than a interference issue.

Speaking of other devices that recieve signals, I know GPS devices are allowed on Southwest, which I found odd. I don't think they are allowed on AA/Delta.

--IslesFan


User currently offlineLincoln From United States of America, joined Nov 2004, 3887 posts, RR: 8
Reply 2, posted (7 years 9 months 4 weeks 1 day 18 hours ago) and read 4510 times:

Quoting IslesFan (Reply 1):
Speaking of other devices that recieve signals, I know GPS devices are allowed on Southwest, which I found odd. I don't think they are allowed on AA/Delta.

Likewise, every airline I can remember recently has forbidden radios/portable televisions, but Continental explicitly states that one-way pagers may be used to receive pages at any time... I really don't get the difference between a 1-way pager or GPS unit and a portable radio, but hey....

To the original poster: If nothing else, you could put it in your carryon and ask politely when you boarded if it would be OK... This would also probably go a long way twoards avoiding having a FA flip out on you and accuse you of being a terrorist or whatever.

Lincoln



CO Is My Airline of Choice || Baggage Claim is an airline's last chance to disappoint a customer || Next flts in profile
User currently offlineCaptSkibi From United States of America, joined May 2004, 150 posts, RR: 0
Reply 3, posted (7 years 9 months 4 weeks 1 day 18 hours ago) and read 4470 times:

Many devices that are supposed to be passive (i.e. receive only) are noisy devices in terms of EMI. Cheap radios/receivers probably fall into that category. GPS receivers probably don't as long as they're on, but in receive mode, they use a LNA to amplify the weak GPS signals. Because of the antenna radiation patterns, many high-end GPS devices require them to be at least 1 m away from another GPS receiver's antenna. This may be a reason for the airlines keeping the GPS units off (with the overall reason being security).

It's practically easier to just have a blanket rule that bans all devices with an antenna than trying to explain to a passenger that this particular device is forbidden.



Private Pilot, Airplane Single Engine Land / DL Gold Elite
User currently offlineKatwspotter From United States of America, joined Feb 2007, 210 posts, RR: 1
Reply 4, posted (7 years 9 months 4 weeks 1 day 18 hours ago) and read 4475 times:

I brought one on a YX flight once and A) It really doesnt work to well, and B) the flight attendent saw me with it and freaked out and made me go to talk to the pilots about it after we had landed. They said it doesnt hurt anything, but they are still not an approved item.


A/C I have worked in ATW - SF340 E145 CRJ2/7/9 DC93/4/5 A319/20 MD83 B738 B752/3 B763/4 A333
User currently offlinePhilb From Ireland, joined May 1999, 2915 posts, RR: 13
Reply 5, posted (7 years 9 months 4 weeks 1 day 18 hours ago) and read 4471 times:

Totally illegal under IATA, ICAO regulations and the laws of almost every jurisdiction

User currently offlineEMBQA From United States of America, joined Oct 2003, 9364 posts, RR: 11
Reply 6, posted (7 years 9 months 4 weeks 1 day 17 hours ago) and read 4429 times:

Quoting IslesFan (Reply 1):
Every airline I've been on lately forbids it, along with FM radios

Those regulations have been in effect for as long as I can remember.... 20+ years.



"It's not the size of the dog in the fight, but the size of the fight in the dog"
User currently offlineAsstChiefMark From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 7, posted (7 years 9 months 4 weeks 1 day 17 hours ago) and read 4427 times:

Bringing a scanner onboard a commercial aircraft is as acceptable as bringing your pet rat to McDonalds to have lunch with you. You might not see anything wrong with it, but it sure freaks out the staff and other patrons.

Mark


User currently offlineElectech6299 From United States of America, joined Aug 2005, 616 posts, RR: 3
Reply 8, posted (7 years 9 months 4 weeks 1 day 17 hours ago) and read 4402 times:

If you're that addicted, why not just fly UA?


Send not to know for whom the bell tolls...it tolls for thee
User currently offlineKELPkid From United States of America, joined Nov 2005, 6428 posts, RR: 3
Reply 9, posted (7 years 9 months 4 weeks 1 day 17 hours ago) and read 4404 times:

In 1999, I flew the Cessna up to ABQ to pick up a friend. Well, I tried to get through security in the passenger terminal with my flight bag (you could still go to the gate without a ticket in those days  Wink ), and I couldn't  Sad they didn't like the idea of letting my handheld transceiver pass through security, even in a pre-9/11 world...


Celebrating the birth of KELPkidJR on August 5, 2009 :-)
User currently offlineIslesFan From United States of America, joined Feb 2007, 10 posts, RR: 0
Reply 10, posted (7 years 9 months 4 weeks 1 day 17 hours ago) and read 4389 times:

I have an Amateur Radio License. If I ever get questioned, I just take it out and show it, that usually ends the problem.

--IslesFan


User currently offlineMaidensGator From United States of America, joined Jan 2007, 945 posts, RR: 0
Reply 11, posted (7 years 9 months 4 weeks 1 day 17 hours ago) and read 4362 times:

I've used my GPS on flights a few times. This link gives a list of airlines that approve/disapprove:

http://gpsinformation.net/airgps/airgps.htm

Once while waiting to board a USAirways flight, the pilot was hanging around the boarding area so I asked him if it would be ok; he said sure if I waited until they announce electronics can be used.

You do have to hold it up near the window to get a signal, and it takes a while to lock in, but it's cool to see where you are, speed and altitude, as well as the ETA.



The first thing we do, let's kill all the lawyers.
User currently offlineKELPkid From United States of America, joined Nov 2005, 6428 posts, RR: 3
Reply 12, posted (7 years 9 months 4 weeks 1 day 17 hours ago) and read 4355 times:

Quoting Electech6299 (Reply 8):
If you're that addicted, why not just fly UA?

1) You're at the mercy of El Capitan (meaning, if you draw a captain who doesn't like it, channel 9 goes silent  Wink )
2) How can you tune ATIS (or any other desired frequency en-route) that is different than the frequency which is patched through on Channel 9?

Of course, having a chart out while en-route would draw just as much suspicion as having a radio receiver or transceiver out...

I do agree with previous posts, many cheaply made scanners/receivers do put out out-of-band "birdies", which is why there is a blanket ban on most radio receiver equipment.



Celebrating the birth of KELPkidJR on August 5, 2009 :-)
User currently offlineBaron52ta From United Kingdom, joined Apr 2005, 211 posts, RR: 0
Reply 13, posted (7 years 9 months 4 weeks 1 day 17 hours ago) and read 4352 times:

Personal GPS must remain off on airliners because the way they work which is similar in principal to radar or sonar with signal bounce back, that is how you maintain an up to the minute location and that signal can give a ghost on the A/C GPS. As for the Transceiver it is not allowed as it can be used to talk to the flight deck and interfere with radio Com's. intentionally or not.
The radio is not to do with interference it is to do with other passenger comfort as alot of people don't seem to know when the volume is up high enough as to be heard by all around them and the ICE is set up so the volume can't reach the annoyance level


User currently offlineKELPkid From United States of America, joined Nov 2005, 6428 posts, RR: 3
Reply 14, posted (7 years 9 months 4 weeks 1 day 17 hours ago) and read 4354 times:

Quoting MaidensGator (Reply 11):
You do have to hold it up near the window to get a signal, and it takes a while to lock in, but it's cool to see where you are, speed and altitude, as well as the ETA.

I wonder if suction-cupping a behind the glass vehicle antenna to the window would be pushing it  Wink Of course, near vertical is a less than ideal location for one of these anyways...



Celebrating the birth of KELPkidJR on August 5, 2009 :-)
User currently offlineEMBQA From United States of America, joined Oct 2003, 9364 posts, RR: 11
Reply 15, posted (7 years 9 months 4 weeks 1 day 16 hours ago) and read 4306 times:

Quoting IslesFan (Reply 10):
I have an Amateur Radio License

So what...? Your still in direct violation of the Federal Regulation.



"It's not the size of the dog in the fight, but the size of the fight in the dog"
User currently offlineIslesFan From United States of America, joined Feb 2007, 10 posts, RR: 0
Reply 16, posted (7 years 9 months 4 weeks 1 day 16 hours ago) and read 4291 times:

Quoting KELPkid (Reply 9):
In 1999, I flew the Cessna up to ABQ to pick up a friend. Well, I tried to get through security in the passenger terminal with my flight bag (you could still go to the gate without a ticket in those days Wink ), and I couldn't Sad they didn't like the idea of letting my handheld transceiver pass through security, even in a pre-9/11 world...

I was responding to his post. I'd never use a scanner if the airline prohibits it or a Flight Attendant says no.


User currently offlineMaidensGator From United States of America, joined Jan 2007, 945 posts, RR: 0
Reply 17, posted (7 years 9 months 4 weeks 1 day 16 hours ago) and read 4279 times:

Quoting Baron52ta (Reply 13):
Personal GPS must remain off on airliners because the way they work which is similar in principal to radar or sonar with signal bounce back,

Actually they are passive radio receivers. They work by calculating the times it takes to receive signals from the satellites. A handheld GPS emits minimal RF....

http://gpsinformation.net/airgps/gpsrfi.htm

Quoting KELPkid (Reply 14):
I wonder if suction-cupping a behind the glass vehicle antenna to the window would be pushing it Wink Of course, near vertical is a less than ideal location for one of these anyways...

I've found that after I get a position fix, you can move it away from the window a bit, not too far, and it still works....

Question for the pilots or other experts... When I've used it on the plane at cruising altitude, the altitude on the GPS would show 35,010 or 32,010, or similar. Does the altimeter on the plane show the altitude of the bottom of the plane? It looked to me like we were cruising at 35,000 and I was 10 feet high up in the plane.



The first thing we do, let's kill all the lawyers.
User currently offlineOPNLguy From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 18, posted (7 years 9 months 4 weeks 1 day 16 hours ago) and read 4280 times:

Quoting KELPkid (Reply 9):
In 1999, I flew the Cessna up to ABQ to pick up a friend. Well, I tried to get through security in the passenger terminal with my flight bag (you could still go to the gate without a ticket in those days Wink ), and I couldn't Sad they didn't like the idea of letting my handheld transceiver pass through security, even in a pre-9/11 world...

I've had a similar problem a couple of times (one pre-9/11, and one post-9/11), and both times the screener told me that I couldn't take it aboard (even with airline ID, ADX certificate, and SIDA badge) because I didn't have a license to use the radio. (I don't know how they "knew" this, since they never asked). Any how, I pulled out my itty-bitty FCC-issued license dated 1978 that said RESTRICTED RADIOTELEPHONE OPERATOR PERMIT, and was able to merrily go on my way. I haven't had a problem since....


User currently offlineIslesFan From United States of America, joined Feb 2007, 10 posts, RR: 0
Reply 19, posted (7 years 9 months 4 weeks 1 day 16 hours ago) and read 4258 times:

Quoting OPNLguy (Reply 18):
Quoting KELPkid (Reply 9):
In 1999, I flew the Cessna up to ABQ to pick up a friend. Well, I tried to get through security in the passenger terminal with my flight bag (you could still go to the gate without a ticket in those days Wink ), and I couldn't Sad they didn't like the idea of letting my handheld transceiver pass through security, even in a pre-9/11 world...

I've had a similar problem a couple of times (one pre-9/11, and one post-9/11), and both times the screener told me that I couldn't take it aboard (even with airline ID, ADX certificate, and SIDA badge) because I didn't have a license to use the radio. (I don't know how they "knew" this, since they never asked). Any how, I pulled out my itty-bitty FCC-issued license dated 1978 that said RESTRICTED RADIOTELEPHONE OPERATOR PERMIT, and was able to merrily go on my way. I haven't had a problem since....

Was this an airband transceiver or a regular scanner?


User currently offlineOPNLguy From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 20, posted (7 years 9 months 4 weeks 1 day 16 hours ago) and read 4255 times:

Quoting IslesFan (Reply 19):

Was this an airband transceiver or a regular scanner?

Handheld transceiver.


User currently offlineEMBQA From United States of America, joined Oct 2003, 9364 posts, RR: 11
Reply 21, posted (7 years 9 months 4 weeks 1 day 16 hours ago) and read 4234 times:

Quoting MaidensGator (Reply 17):
Does the altimeter on the plane show the altitude of the bottom of the plane? It looked to me like we were cruising at 35,000 and I was 10 feet high up in the plane.

No.... there are just veriables in those numbers the higher up you go. At 1000ft an altimeter my be only 1ft off....at 10,000ft it may be 10ft off.....and so forth. That is why with the advent of RVSM it is so critical that the planes stay within tolerance.



"It's not the size of the dog in the fight, but the size of the fight in the dog"
User currently offlineMaidensGator From United States of America, joined Jan 2007, 945 posts, RR: 0
Reply 22, posted (7 years 9 months 4 weeks 1 day 16 hours ago) and read 4212 times:

Quoting EMBQA (Reply 21):
Quoting MaidensGator (Reply 17):
Does the altimeter on the plane show the altitude of the bottom of the plane? It looked to me like we were cruising at 35,000 and I was 10 feet high up in the plane.

No.... there are just veriables in those numbers the higher up you go. At 1000ft an altimeter my be only 1ft off....at 10,000ft it may be 10ft off.....and so forth. That is why with the advent of RVSM it is so critical that the planes stay within tolerance.

Thanks... one of those minor curiosities explained...



The first thing we do, let's kill all the lawyers.
User currently offlineKELPkid From United States of America, joined Nov 2005, 6428 posts, RR: 3
Reply 23, posted (7 years 9 months 4 weeks 1 day 15 hours ago) and read 4168 times:

Quoting OPNLguy (Reply 18):
I've had a similar problem a couple of times (one pre-9/11, and one post-9/11), and both times the screener told me that I couldn't take it aboard (even with airline ID, ADX certificate, and SIDA badge) because I didn't have a license to use the radio. (I don't know how they "knew" this, since they never asked). Any how, I pulled out my itty-bitty FCC-issued license dated 1978 that said RESTRICTED RADIOTELEPHONE OPERATOR PERMIT, and was able to merrily go on my way. I haven't had a problem since....

I got my PPL long after the FCC radio operator permit requirement for pilots...I think an FCC station license was still required for the aircraft (when ARROW still had two R's  Wink ). The ABQ guys (IIRC, "Huntleigh Security") didn't say anything about licensure, but I could have whipped out my FCC Technician Class Amateur radio license  Wink [which still doesn't license one for air band, but nonetheless...] Heck, as far as I know, the only license needed to use air band anymore is for a base station permit. However, the FAA could sick the FCC on you if you start transmitting without any apparent aircraft-related purpose...



Celebrating the birth of KELPkidJR on August 5, 2009 :-)
User currently offlineElectech6299 From United States of America, joined Aug 2005, 616 posts, RR: 3
Reply 24, posted (7 years 9 months 4 weeks 1 day 15 hours ago) and read 4156 times:

Quoting OPNLguy (Reply 18):
Any how, I pulled out my itty-bitty FCC-issued license dated 1978 that said RESTRICTED RADIOTELEPHONE OPERATOR PERMIT, and was able to merrily go on my way. I haven't had a problem since....

Hmmm....so the 'ol ROP card has some use after all, huh? Maybe I'm going to have to pull that out of my memorabilia box and put it back in my wallet  Wink

Not that I have a transceiver any more anyway...



Send not to know for whom the bell tolls...it tolls for thee
25 Apodino : Thats why you have earphones that you plug into the unit so no one can hear them. I remember a few years ago, pre 9-11 I had a radio on board with me
26 Graphic : Actually it's because at FL180 and above, aircraft altimiters are no longer set to show true altitude, they are set to show pressure altitude. 35,000
27 Nimish : I can echo that, I used a receiver on a domestic flight in India, and within a few minutes after take off I lost ATC completely, and could hear only
28 Chuchoteur : and you are set to a standard pressure altitude of 1013 mb, hence you may get a different reading off your GPS!
29 Post contains images HAWK21M : Where. On a Commercial Airliner Travelling as a PAX You think they'd let you go. regds MEL
30 Qslinger : Is the UA Ch 9 ATC comm delayed or is it real time? Many times the the pilot is already exectuing the instructions, like turn or climb, as I hear the
31 SPREE34 : It comes directly off the cockpit audio circuit and into the IFE.
32 Bond007 : No, many airlines specifically allow the use of handheld GPS receivers (as already mentioned). Well, not the reason, there are exceptions are devices
33 Post contains images David L : As explained by MaidensGator, they don't work by "bouncing" radio waves off anything - they don't actively transmit. In any case, they are permitted
34 Post contains images AceMcCool99 : Bringing one on board without checking with the aircrew first might warrant you a welcoming committee at your destination. Have a drink and enjoy the
35 Bond007 : Not at all. Using it .. yes. Bringing it onboard in a carry-on ... no problem. It's not a prohibited item. Jimbo
36 David L : I've certainly had a scanner in my carry-on every time I've flown into and out of the USA (pre and post 9/11) and I've never even been asked about it
37 Onetogo : real time.
38 NoWorries : Passive (non-broadcasting) receivers/detectors employ various forms of demodulation, some of which involve generating a reference signal. The signal
39 Post contains images David L : OK, but for context you need to look at the post MaidensGator was replying to.
40 NoWorries : Yep -- I definitely didn't mean to sound like a nit-picker -- GPS receivers definitely don't broadcast -- just meant to point out that with any type
41 Post contains images David L : Just checking. There's plenty of competition for that role.
42 ADent : Another issue is that most radios generate their own frequencies/RF as part of the radio receiver (think PLL or super heterodyne). Some of the really
43 MaidensGator : I was trying to acknowledge that even though it's passive (non-transmitting), a GPS may cause interference through emissions. I probably should have
44 RDUDDJI : In the last year, I've probably flown 70 or so segments on UA and only twice have we not had Ch 9. In fact most of the time, either the F/A or one of
45 CoolGuy : Some people were talking about UA channel 9. It had XM radio on instead. I was really looking forward to the conversations, but I didn't get that chan
46 Post contains images Noelg : Seriously? I've always thought about flying UA for Channel 9 but never do as I thought that most of the time they didn't turn it on! I may reconsider
47 COFreqFlyer : I concur. I hold an Advanced Class license, but that's governed by the FCC Part 97 regs, NOT the Federal Aviation Regs for Part 121/135 air carrier o
48 Post contains images Electech6299 : if functioning properly! What was the last maintenance you performed on your RF modulators? Without testing with a calibrated RF signal generator and
49 NoWorries : Yep -- no argument here -- in the case of "well maintained" consumer equipment, I meant "not abused" -- but that does not guarantee proper operation.
50 777DEN : UA's channel 9 audio is whatever the crew has set the #2 observers audio control panel to, usually it's the VHF radios, but conceivably it could any a
51 Boston92 : If I were to guess, UA's Channel nine is on and working 9 flights out of 10. Usually it is the 73X's that you might not have it on.
52 797 : Well, good thing to see this thread. On my last US domestic flight on AA, I used my scanner hiding it under my cap on my lap. The flight was EGE-DFW a
53 Bond007 : Well, there are 2 worse case scenarios: 1) You are prosecuted for a federal offense - unlikely, but not a good thing to happen. 2) You cause the avio
54 FlyUSCG : I actually used my transceiver on a America West 757 (while we were still at the gate) and I could actually hear it interfering with the stewardess PA
55 Philb : Considering this is an aviation enthusiast's site and the people here are supposed to have some knowledge of aviation, care for the safe operation of
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