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AirTran Details Plans For Midwest To SEC  
User currently offlineDaus From United States of America, joined May 2005, 289 posts, RR: 0
Posted (7 years 9 months 6 days 18 hours ago) and read 8335 times:

http://www.jsonline.com/watch/?watch=1&date=2/26/2007&id=19657

AirTran Holdings Inc. (AAI) has taken the unusual step of providing details on the number of new flights and jobs it would add in Milwaukee, if it completes a hostile takeover attempt of Midwest Air Group Inc. (MEH)

AirTran, in a filing with the Securities and Exchange Commission, said it would add 74 daily departures from Mitchell International Airport, while also more than doubling seating capacity and adding 29 new destinations. Midwest Air, which operates Midwest Airlines and Midwest Connect, offers around 140 daily departures from Mitchell International to just over 40 cities.

That increased business would create around 1,100 jobs based in Milwaukee, with an initial payroll of $30 million, said Kevin Healy, AirTran vice president of administration. Midwest Air has 1,865 airline jobs at Mitchell and the company's Oak Creek headquarters.


Filing detail here:

http://www.sec.gov/Archives/edgar/da...45/000119312507039832/dex99a34.htm

177 replies: All unread, showing first 25:
 
User currently offlineIndy From United States of America, joined Jan 2005, 4581 posts, RR: 18
Reply 1, posted (7 years 9 months 6 days 18 hours ago) and read 8320 times:

Quoting Daus (Thread starter):
has taken the unusual step of providing details on the number of new flights and jobs it would add in Milwaukee

It is unusual and desperate. Nice move to phony up numbers to try and trick people into selling their stock. I'm guessing what they outline is not enforceable. They could get the stock and the company and say "whoops we changed our mind." They are playing the jobs card. Always promise jobs when you want something and threaten jobs when someone wants to take something away from you.



Indy = Indianapolis and not Independence Air
User currently offlineDaus From United States of America, joined May 2005, 289 posts, RR: 0
Reply 2, posted (7 years 9 months 6 days 17 hours ago) and read 8291 times:

Quoting Indy (Reply 1):
It is unusual and desperate.

You would think they would at least spell check the document before making it an SEC filing. Check out the Job Creation chart. Apparently they are going to need more than 25 people in the "Managerial and Administraiton area to do proper spell checking.  Smile


User currently offlineDaus From United States of America, joined May 2005, 289 posts, RR: 0
Reply 3, posted (7 years 9 months 6 days 17 hours ago) and read 8284 times:

They boys at NWA are going to take quite an interest in the 5 new MKE departures to Detroit item.

User currently offlineMAH4546 From Sweden, joined Jan 2001, 33195 posts, RR: 71
Reply 4, posted (7 years 9 months 6 days 17 hours ago) and read 8267 times:

Interesting read. Some of the new routes they propose for Milwaukee include Cancun (1x 73G), Miami (1x 73G), Montreal (3x 717), San Juan (1x 73G), Sarasota (1x 717), Vancouver (1x 73G), and White Plains (3x 717). I wonder if they'd keep their word, though, because some seem like overkill, like three daily flights to HPN.

[Edited 2007-02-26 23:33:21]


a.
User currently offlineLambertMan From United States of America, joined Aug 2003, 2081 posts, RR: 36
Reply 5, posted (7 years 9 months 6 days 17 hours ago) and read 8218 times:

Quoting MAH4546 (Reply 4):
Montreal (3x 717), San Juan (1x 73G), Sarasota (1x 717), Vancouver (1x 73G), and White Plains (3x 717

I'll add to your some and say all but 2.


User currently offlineWesternA318 From United States of America, joined Oct 2004, 5713 posts, RR: 24
Reply 6, posted (7 years 9 months 6 days 17 hours ago) and read 8202 times:

Quoting MAH4546 (Reply 4):
Some of the new routes they propose for Milwaukee include Cancun (1x 73G), Miami (1x 73G), Montreal (3x 717), San Juan (1x 73G), Sarasota (1x 717), Vancouver (1x 73G), and White Plains (3x 717).

I can see the value of starting MKE to CUN, MIA, YUL, SJU, and YVR, but Sarasota and White Plains?



Check out my blog at fl310travel.blogspot.com!
User currently offlineDaus From United States of America, joined May 2005, 289 posts, RR: 0
Reply 7, posted (7 years 9 months 6 days 17 hours ago) and read 8179 times:

In addition to new service, they are proposing pretty massive expansion in traffic to BWI, LAX, Hartford CT, Toronto.

User currently offlineMSNYX From United States of America, joined Dec 2006, 130 posts, RR: 0
Reply 8, posted (7 years 9 months 6 days 17 hours ago) and read 8100 times:

This seems awfully desperate to me. Is there even a market for three a day flights to HPN? YX already serves EWR and LGA with 8 flights a day. Airtran seems to be trying to woo Wisconsin residents into thinking that they will be able to fly anywhere their little hearts desire. Non-stop! But if FL was to actually start all of these flights, which is doubtful, the load factor would not be there and pretty soon there would be about the same amount of non-stops as there currently are, minus the signature service.

I am a stubborn Wisconsin resident with a tough little heart. I am perfectly content making stops to get somewhere, so long as it is YX. I will not believe all of these flights or anything that Airtran says until I see it.



If I rise on the wings of the dawn, if I settle on the far side of the sea, even there Your hand will guide me
User currently offlineMAH4546 From Sweden, joined Jan 2001, 33195 posts, RR: 71
Reply 9, posted (7 years 9 months 6 days 16 hours ago) and read 8063 times:

Quoting WesternA318 (Reply 6):
I can see the value of starting MKE to CUN, MIA, YUL, SJU, and YVR, but Sarasota and White Plains?

Of those, the only ones I think make any logical sense are Miami and Cancun. Some of the other routes make sense to, like Raleigh and Houston Hobby.



a.
User currently offlineSteeler83 From United States of America, joined Feb 2006, 9263 posts, RR: 21
Reply 10, posted (7 years 9 months 6 days 16 hours ago) and read 8026 times:

For the love of God, why doesn't FL just stop this nonsense and leave Midwest Air corp ALONE...


Do not bring stranger girt into your room. The stranger girt is dangerous, it will hurt your life.
User currently offlineMSNYX From United States of America, joined Dec 2006, 130 posts, RR: 0
Reply 11, posted (7 years 9 months 6 days 16 hours ago) and read 8003 times:

From what I have seen on this forum, every single Wisconsin resident who has voiced their opinion has been against this deal. FL's plan seems to be attempting to appeal to Wisconsin residents, well this one says no!


If I rise on the wings of the dawn, if I settle on the far side of the sea, even there Your hand will guide me
User currently offlineERJ170 From United States of America, joined Apr 2004, 6784 posts, RR: 17
Reply 12, posted (7 years 9 months 6 days 16 hours ago) and read 7973 times:

Quoting Steeler83 (Reply 10):
For the love of God, why doesn't FL just stop this nonsense and leave Midwest Air corp ALONE...

I agree.. everything that AirTran is doing, Midwest can do themselves..

4x MKE-RDU... I would expect Midwest to announce 3x service soon... AirTran isn't really adding any real added benefit.

If AirTran really wanted to put those planes somewhere, they really could with what the destinations they already have. Or they could open up some more.. I don't see why they are so hell bent on getting Midwest..

I could really see Midwest turning this around and suing AirTran for sexual harrassment (since they are seriously riding their @ss) and get some FL profit! LOL...

Anyway, FL has options to put those planes.. Midwest is not interested.. Milwaulkee is not interested.. the Board is not interested.. and the flying public isn't interested.. so who in charge has a woodie for Midwest anyway???? or maybe its Penoid envy? I don't know.. just seems ODD!



Aiming High and going far..
User currently offlineMikey711MN From United States of America, joined Nov 2003, 1401 posts, RR: 8
Reply 13, posted (7 years 9 months 6 days 16 hours ago) and read 7953 times:

Quoting Indy (Reply 1):
It is unusual and desperate. Nice move to phony up numbers to try and trick people into selling their stock.

Well, to be honest, if they pulled the bid tomorrow, how many people are going to sell their stock then? What's the value of YX stock after the bell sounds on that day? 80% of what it is? 75%???

On that note, YX's growth plan of its own, i.e. the basis for any shareholder growth in the future, is predicated primarily on extending mainline YX jets to new destinations at 1x daily service while backfilling its existing routes with CRJs. In other words, bringing the signature brand to limited amounts to markets largely unfamiliar with the product while removing the signature brand to already established amounts already used to the product.

To me, the notion that divulging an "unusual and desperate" amount of information is completely contradictory to how you trick someone. If I'm going to swindle you, I'm going to withhold information, not give you more than you need.

On that note, where are Midwest's new destinations? How are they going to compete with ExpressJet in MCI (presuming that the SkyWest jets were destined for some of those stations now on sale by XJet)? Where's the announcements of downgauging routes like MSP-MKE and PHL-MKE that already show up in the schedules? Midwest has shown very little from their supposed power position, which begs the question...

So who's really doing the tricking?  Smile

Quoting Indy (Reply 1):
I'm guessing what they outline is not enforceable. They could get the stock and the company and say "whoops we changed our mind." They are playing the jobs card. Always promise jobs when you want something and threaten jobs when someone wants to take something away from you.

I know you and I have talked about this some, Indy, but again, it bears repeating: what interest does FL have to pull down the hub in MKE? Didn't their now failed attempt at MDW send the message that FL has a vested desire to get into the midwest region? Surely they didn't pursue those gates to facilitate more ATL and Florida nonstops, or to get more 717s when they've got a boatload of 737s on order.

Are these plans ambitious? Holy cow, yes. Are they subject to change? You bet. What it does show is that much of the FL staff believe that MKE has a future...where the number of destinations is presumably between 41 and 70 and where the number of seats between existing markets is sometimes 1-3 times lower than it could be for a given [lower] price point that the Tran can offer. And if there's anything that Milwaukeeans love--even more than the free cookies--it's a good deal.

It should be interesting no matter what. I'm excited to see what comes of this.
-Mike



I plan on living forever. So far, so good...
User currently offlineERJ170 From United States of America, joined Apr 2004, 6784 posts, RR: 17
Reply 14, posted (7 years 9 months 6 days 15 hours ago) and read 7932 times:

Quoting Mikey711MN (Reply 13):
even more than the free cookies

I tell you what... I had a hot chocolate chip cookie and vanilla ice cream on United recently, and let me tell you.. it was great... I can see why anyone who flies Midwest think so much of them.. its a small gesture with a BIG payback.. it's was well worth the flight.. better than the bag of pretzels and plastic cup of drink I usually get on US...



Aiming High and going far..
User currently offlineMikey711MN From United States of America, joined Nov 2003, 1401 posts, RR: 8
Reply 15, posted (7 years 9 months 6 days 15 hours ago) and read 7914 times:

Quoting ERJ170 (Reply 14):
its a small gesture with a BIG payback..

You don't think FL knows this?

I would bet my paycheck that if a merger went through, you'd see that cookie on all FL flights.

This merger is about buying the loyal value-conscious traveler who will remember that cookie when booking their next flight. YX depends on it because they charge a fare premium. FL's low-cost structure allows them to charge a lower fare, give you the cookie, and still make money.

Otherwise, all you did is just buy a really expensive cookie.

-Mike



I plan on living forever. So far, so good...
User currently offlineLGAtoIND From United States of America, joined Jan 2005, 490 posts, RR: 1
Reply 16, posted (7 years 9 months 6 days 15 hours ago) and read 7884 times:

3X MKE-YUL, MKE-YVR, 3X MKE-HPN...

Is this a joke?


User currently offlineIndy From United States of America, joined Jan 2005, 4581 posts, RR: 18
Reply 17, posted (7 years 9 months 6 days 15 hours ago) and read 7885 times:

Quoting Mikey711MN (Reply 13):
I know you and I have talked about this some, Indy, but again, it bears repeating: what interest does FL have to pull down the hub in MKE? Didn't their now failed attempt at MDW send the message that FL has a vested desire to get into the midwest region?

Lets pretend that FL could earn $1 per unit sold in MKE. They can with the same equipment and same amount of effort make $1.50 per unit sold somewhere else. What would be their interest in keeping a hub in MKE? What is the value of the equipment in the deal? What is the value when it comes to getting the equipment now versus picking up a jet here and there on sale or waiting for a delivery here and there from Boeing?

FL has never had an interest in MKE. I don't think they just acquired a taste overnight.



Indy = Indianapolis and not Independence Air
User currently offlineMikey711MN From United States of America, joined Nov 2003, 1401 posts, RR: 8
Reply 18, posted (7 years 9 months 6 days 15 hours ago) and read 7870 times:

Quoting Indy (Reply 17):
Lets pretend that FL could earn $1 per unit sold in MKE. They can with the same equipment and same amount of effort make $1.50 per unit sold somewhere else.

Really? Where?

-Mike



I plan on living forever. So far, so good...
User currently offlineStirling From Italy, joined Jun 2004, 3943 posts, RR: 21
Reply 19, posted (7 years 9 months 6 days 15 hours ago) and read 7870 times:

Quote:
Scott Dickson, chief marketing officer for Midwest Air, said that the assumptions Air Tran makes about building traffic to several new destinations are also unrealistic. He cited proposed service between Milwaukee's Mitchell International Airport and Rochester, N.Y., which Air Tran says is part of its plan. "There are about 18 passengers per day traveling in that market," Dickson said. "They are proposing to have 234 seats available ... That doesn't sound very realistic."

The claim is that they intend to build a "Truly National Low-Cost High-Quality Airline". (Don't tell B6 or F9)
Fine.
But putting 234 seats a day into Rochester, while ignoring PDX, SMF, ELP, AUS, OKC, BHM etc....doesn't seem too "National" to me.....but hey, Good Luck in White Plains.

Why does this remind me of Deja Vu all over again...?

Southern and North Central.
Granted, both were a lot smaller and localized than the two contenders we have today in airTran and Midwest...but the parallels are there. Add in a regional West Coast carrier and its perfect.

After 20 years, the game is still the same, expand through acquisition. Using hindsight as my guide, I can see the MKE hub migrate slowly to the south....to MCI, the two will flop positions, with MKE having a few P2P focus city routes. Who cares if the airport at MCI is the antitheses of what a hub airport should look like.



Delete this User
User currently offlineIndy From United States of America, joined Jan 2005, 4581 posts, RR: 18
Reply 20, posted (7 years 9 months 6 days 15 hours ago) and read 7831 times:

Quoting Mikey711MN (Reply 18):
Really? Where?

Doesn't even have to be one place. Take the jets and start moving them to cities FL already servces. Use it to expand frequencies and possibly opening new routes between existing cities. Why have 50% o/d when you can have 100% o/d?



Indy = Indianapolis and not Independence Air
User currently offlineJetJeanes From United States of America, joined Oct 2004, 1431 posts, RR: 1
Reply 21, posted (7 years 9 months 6 days 15 hours ago) and read 7774 times:

It will be a great deal on some 717,s


i can see for 80 miles
User currently offlineMariner From New Zealand, joined Nov 2001, 25571 posts, RR: 86
Reply 22, posted (7 years 9 months 6 days 14 hours ago) and read 7751 times:
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Quoting LGAtoIND (Reply 16):
3X MKE-YUL, MKE-YVR, 3X MKE-HPN...

Is this a joke?

Where's the joke? MKE-YVR and MKE-YUL are valid new destinations and Airtran already serves HPN.

???

mariner



aeternum nauta
User currently offlineStirling From Italy, joined Jun 2004, 3943 posts, RR: 21
Reply 23, posted (7 years 9 months 6 days 14 hours ago) and read 7747 times:

Quoting Indy (Reply 20):
Take the jets and start moving them to cities FL already servces. Use it to expand frequencies and possibly opening new routes between existing cities.

Which is exactly what Republic (North Central + Southern) did with Hughes Air West. They had no intentions of flying to places like Eugene OR and Fresno CA....but rather the aircraft that flew those routes....to better placed routes like DTW-DCA for example.

This is a bad idea for Midwest, but an inevitable step in the natural evolution in the airline world.  Sad



Delete this User
User currently offlineN917ME From United States of America, joined Feb 2005, 730 posts, RR: 1
Reply 24, posted (7 years 9 months 6 days 14 hours ago) and read 7708 times:

LOL. Unrealistic. Look at the percentage of growth in some of the markets! Sorry, why have a 200+% growth in seats from MKE-BWI.. that market doesn't do to great now, hell. both FL and YX has downgraded service. An increase in seats to CLE? Not needed. Same amount of flights, just more seats to flood the market.. whatever!

AirTran has publically stated that the 50 seaters are not money makers and is a big mistake.. however they have included them in on their proposed plans...interesting.. are they really that bad??

Notice, nothing has been said about jobs in the field.

How is FL going to add 1000+ jobs if YX has a hard time filling the vacancies they have now?? And I know in the field, YX pays much more than FL.

I guess this is what FL planned on trying to present to the shareholders at the annual meeting.
WHATEVER!

[Edited 2007-02-27 02:48:07]

25 Cubsrule : Well, let's look south. ORD-YVR is served by UA (3 daily flights; 360 daily seats). AA does not serve the route, nor does AC (with its own metal). Ch
26 Cubsrule : And on a related note, where are the HPN slots coming from? I thought HPN was pretty close to capacity...
27 N917ME : AirTran has already said, they will offer cookies on flights, just not baked, but prepackaged... BIG difference. I can by a prepackaged cookie for .4
28 JBo : Your commentary seems to lean largely on the anti-Midwest side of things, as your commentary largely ignores the fact that Midwest has been looking i
29 Luv2fly : How do tell, they barely made a profit recently, there are no more 717's coming.
30 Daus : I think people are getting too caught up at looking at the O&D from these cities into Milwaukee. What this is about, from looking at what they laid o
31 JBo : So? Midwest is perfectly capable of doing everything AirTran wants to do, just not necessarily in the same time frame. Keep in mind that Midwest is a
32 Luv2fly : So true, with the exception of DTW almost any market from DTW that does not fly you into another airlines hub you can bet you are going to make a con
33 Cubsrule : I don't even think there's the O&D to support a connecting operation. Remember, they're fighting 4 good-sized hubs (and 2 smaller ones) that do the e
34 Mariner : I still don't get it. Just because a legacy already serves a route doesn't mean there isn't room for someone else, LCC - or Midwest. I think we can a
35 Cubsrule : Yes. But FL will not have the MKE following. They'll just be another game in town. I've said this before, but if FL could get folks from Milwaukee to
36 Daus : Well, that where the perceived 'grow, or die' part comes in. They just don't have a better option, so they are going to try and make this work. I thi
37 Luv2fly : If that was the case then Airtran would not be seeking to buy them. In the long run it is better to be bought out then to be run out of town.
38 Cubsrule : Why in the world would FL want to go after NW (more than any other carrier). What FL should do instead is learn from NW. The low fare model DOES NOT
39 Daus : Also, pay attention to how much capacity they intend to add into YYZ. They are going to do battle there as well as DTW.
40 IndyCanuck : And I can chose to fly IND-YVR, IND-HPN and IND-YUL through MKE instead of ORD. I can also fly to 67 other destinations without transiting through OR
41 Luv2fly : If this statement was true then NW would not have the size station they do in MKE and Midwest would not have lost money for some many years like they
42 Post contains images Daus : Because, again my point is that this has very little to do with capturing the hearts and minds of Milwaukean's. This is about becoming national airli
43 Cubsrule : You can't fill 50% of the seats that ORD fills on a hub that is maybe 1/3 of the size of the ORD hubs and local traffic that is 1/5 that of ORD. That
44 Mkirch72 : Are you kidding me? IF, and I mean IF, FL adopted this, they'd probably ship in generic cookies from Costco that are the size of a quarter and everyo
45 Cubsrule : A connecting hub does not work without local traffic. FL seems to understand this in ATL. What is the problem in MKE?
46 Daus : Oh, I'm sure they think they'll hold on to a good chuck of the current YX traffic, they've just decided to buy that traffic rather than try and win t
47 IndyCanuck : Let's look at it this way. I fly to YVR once a year to visit family. When AirTran starts serving this route I will choose to fly IND-MKE-YVR instead
48 Cubsrule : UA fills 360 daily seats on the route. Let's say the flight is 30% local traffic. So the local population fills 108 seats. We could expect local folk
49 MUWarriors : This move smells of a "Hail Mary," but that may just be me. Not me, if I am trying to trick someone I tell them what they want to hear, under no oblig
50 Indy : I already do. I will only fly through ORD if a gun is pointed at my head. Last fall I drove to Milwaukee to take a trip down to Florida. I could have
51 Mikey711MN : As a publicly traded company, they are obligated to maximize shareholder value. If that is by maintaining their niche, then their share value would b
52 TVNWZ : This is true to a point. It is all about FL and nothing about YX. FL justs wants a place, and a built in passenger base, to grow their business. They
53 Mikey711MN : You're right. AirTran is saying "hey, we crunched some numbers and we think you, Milwaukee, are a market sizeable, loyal, and consistent enough to ma
54 Daus : I guess I wouldn't go that far. The institutional guys probably would have to take an offer at about twice where FL is currently at. So I wouldn't ru
55 Mariner : In they absorb Midwest they might. If they embrace and expand Midwest's loyalty program, why would people go away? Frontier has done fine in MKE. mar
56 Cubsrule : False. Their only (legal) obligation to shareholders is to keep them happy. With most corporations, that means maximizing value. But if the sharehold
57 Cubsrule : Well, the edit post feature isn't working, so let me rewrite the first paragraph above. The only legal obligation of a corporation is to be transparen
58 Mariner : I don;t think I suggested that the FF prgrma was all there is to it - but it is part of it. In greater part, the loyalty is due to it being the homet
59 MUWarriors : You are missing their niche. It isn't to be a national carrier in the sense that they plan on pulling people from LAX to DCA, or SAN to LGA, they wan
60 JBo : So because AirTrain says it's not the case, it is so? You believe AirTran when they say YX is a vulnerable carrier? They may not be the strongest air
61 WesternA318 : Or US for that matter, hell, their trying to be the WORLDS No 1 LCC...
62 Post contains links Mikey711MN : The Milwaukee Journal-Sentinel has a pretty good article on the development, including some interesting comments from Michael Boyd. -Mike
63 Indy : And if the deal doesn't go through then what? Where is all this equipment going to come from that they are going to expand with?
64 Mariner : Then the traffic will go somewhere else. And Airtran - even if the bid is successful - will have wasted its money. So be it. However, your hypothesis
65 Knope2001 : I very much wish I had time to write something that would address many of the individual poinrts being debated. But I simply do not right now, and eve
66 Daus : Any idea what percentage of AirTran's traffic in Atlanta is local?
67 DAYflyer : Uh, then why aren't they? They claim they want to grow but dont buy the planes, and they have lost money only until very recently. If you ask me it's
68 Post contains images WesternA318 : If AirTran buys Midwest, it just removes another smaller and weaker player in this twisted game of high altitude musical chairs.
69 Daus : Well, the next chess piece has moved: Midwest to fly non-stop to Seattle Midwest Airlines said today it will begin new non-stop service from Milwaukee
70 DAYflyer : I dont understand why FL just doesn't initiate the service from MKE themselves and forget the merger. Midwest is dying a slow death and when the final
71 Luv2fly : Your views are going to get many peoples panties in a knot, though you have hit the proverbial nail on the head, well said!
72 AirTran717 : Sounds to me like a bunch of armchair CEO's in here, as usual. I've said it before. I'll say it again. I've worked for this man. What Joe Leonard want
73 Mainland : An analyst asked just this in the conference call when AirTran raised their bid, adding that it would seem the company was looking to buy their way r
74 WesternA318 : Guilty as charged! I've heard fo Joe's reputation, not only at AirTran, but also at Eastern as well. I've only met him the few times I attended the S
75 AirTran717 : The bottom line that everyone needs to get through their skulls is that this about making money. Plain and simple. If it weren't about making money, n
76 AirTran717 : I know his reputation very well too. That's why I say if he wants this bad enough, he will get it. He's very agressive in his work ethic. Right, wron
77 Post contains images Daus : I guess they key word there is almost. If Joe wanted this done, he should have offered $8/share instead fo $4/share a year ago and he'd probably own
78 Luv2fly : It is called business and you never play all your cards at the first hand.
79 AirTran717 : I haven't heard the proverbial Fat Lady yet. A hostile takeover doesn't always mean offering money. From what I have seen in this industry, it's lega
80 Daus : Err.. well, and sometimes in business you do. If you have a company in distress you present them an offer they can't refuse. The 'distress' factor ha
81 Post contains images SBN580 : That would make AirTran the leading Low Cost Cookie. Add in a regional West Coast carrier? That's exactly what Republic thought. Look what happened t
82 Indy : My OPINION on this is that he doesn't want MKE. If MKE were so inviting he'd be putting all these nonstop destinations in there instead of MDW and IN
83 DAYflyer : Well, knots or not, thanks for your kind comments!
84 Post contains images Mikey711MN : A valid point, but I think it's a question of opportunity costs. If it's relatively cheaper to merge with YX instead of taking their market share, th
85 TVNWZ : Not up to Joe. Up to Kimberly Clark, Northwestern Mutual, Heartland Partners, M&I etc.
86 WesternA318 : Does Kleenex (Kimberly Clark) still have a stake in the airline?
87 Post contains links Tjwgrr : Looking at the combined route map of 2009 from the SEC filing.... http://www.sec.gov/Archives/edgar/da...45/000119312507039832/dex99a34.htm Maybe it's
88 TVNWZ : Most assuredly, or this guy would not necessarily be on the board. John F. Bergstrom Chairman and Chief Executive Officer, Bergstrom Corporation Berg
89 Sideflare75 : It would seem the AirTran press releases contradict what you are saying. How else do you explain a load factor of 69% for the 4th qtr of 2006 but yet
90 MPDPilot : I don't think it is a sucker-punch at all. Midwest is doing what it can when it can and where it can and I don't think there are too many people that
91 Indy : How much market are you talking about taking? Total passengers served at MKE for 2006 was 7.3 million. What is YX's percentage? 50% or 3.65 million p
92 SBN580 : They founded the airline.
93 WesternA318 : Or perhaps they just want the LGA slots and 717's... I knew that much, I just didnt know how far into it or how related they are in the present day
94 MSNYX : So whether or not I, the flier that FL is trying to get, fly them or not is of consequence? It seems that you are saying that if the entire state of
95 Luv2fly : Only recently did they manage to turn a small profit. It is not a winning model by any stretch of the imagination. One that might be popular with fly
96 Cubsrule : I said that early on, but I don't think it's true. FL is pulling back from markets where I thought they were entrenched on routes like MDW-EWR and MD
97 Post contains images MSNYX : These comments reminded me of the Onion article titled, "Midwest discovered between East, West Coasts." Sometimes to us midwesterners, it seems like
98 Cubsrule : Certainly, but a 250 daily flight hub needs a fair-sized local market. If the merger goes through, FL will be contending with local backlash as well
99 Sideflare75 : How quickly everyone forgets that Midwest was profitable for 14 straight years prior to 2001. So all this talk of only recently profitable is just pl
100 JBo : Damn straight, bro. All the merger supporters seem to conveniently ignore or forget that little tidbit.[Edited 2007-02-28 01:03:14]
101 NorthwestEWR : I go WAY out of my way to fly Midwest because of their fantastic service and wonderful employees. I love calling them and getting a very nice Midweste
102 Joeljack : Airlines have a loyal following because of Frequent Flyer programs. I fly only United for this reason. If someone were to buy united, that would be gr
103 Mariner : I am really suspicious of this backlash, which flies in the face of human nature. I doubt that anyone "loves" Ryanair, but they still fly 'em. Sure,
104 Sideflare75 : I don't know. If FL is successful and MKE losses one of it's pride and joys I think you will see backlash against FL. Especially if and when they sta
105 Luv2fly : Time will tell though my 2 cents I see this happening sooner then later.
106 Post contains images Mariner : Already there is an "if" in that. What if they don't start cutting jobs? I could be wrong, but I don't think that Northwest was ever the size of Midw
107 Luv2fly : Well this talk of loyalty is just that, the former passengers of TWA I am sure are now flying AA regularly...
108 Sideflare75 : I only said if because FL has stated that there will be very few and was just stating another possible reason for backlash. That is not the main reas
109 Post contains links Mariner : I'm guess I'm confused. I read that Airtran plans to add 1100 jobs at MKE. http://www.wkowtv.com/News/index.php?ID=9737 mariner
110 IndyCanuck : Source?
111 Sideflare75 : Well go back to the beginning of all this takeover talk and listen some of the interviews and read some of the articles and you will see where they h
112 Cubsrule : That's correct, and NW could easily hit every current YX mainline destination and a few more (CUN perhaps). If the 752 had the legs, I have no doubt
113 Indy : The new configuration that NW has put together does have the legs. MKE-AMS 4073 mi. DTW-FRA is 4161 miles and that route will be on a 757.
114 Cubsrule : Yeah, though I'm skeptical that they can make it westbound on DTW-FRA. EWR-TXL has problems sometimes, and it's 180 miles shorter. DTW-FRA is longer
115 Post contains links Mariner : Well, not really, because I, probably more than most others here because of where I am, can only rely on the public statements. And a few little dick
116 Mariner : Could they do it? Possibly. But they could not "easily" do it. Apart from fleet considerations there are greater strategic concerns, such as leaving
117 WesternA318 : Mariner, What you have said in the last two posts are probably theclosest to the thruth we'll get on this topic. Remeber, Joe Leonard came from Easter
118 Steeler83 : Something else I didn't know about FL... I still don't approve of them going after YX though. I like what YX offers their pax and I don't want to see
119 WesternA318 : Oh, I like both airlines and have flown them before, but I have quite a bit of stock in AAI (all becasue of their beatiung up on DL), and would love
120 Post contains images Steeler83 : Well, that is a good reason for liking them... Suppose they made a push for NW... ... um, nah... that would open up a whole can of worms! DISREGARD!!
121 WesternA318 : LOL, I'd be calling Doug Parker AND Gordo...
122 BHMBAGLOCK : Neither F9 nor B6 has ever served BHM. I'd like to see both but I'm not holding my breath. Likewise for YX. Unfortunately, the number of destinations
123 Post contains images MUWarriors : First off, I too was wondering why FL didn't just make the push on their own, then I began thinking, where would they get the gates? Until the hammerh
124 Mariner : I'm not all that familar with the airlines that fly out of MKE, so I just checked on Travelocity, and on the routes I tried, my non-stop choice were
125 MUWarriors : And I lived in that cocky other country for a while, granted it was the ignored/isolated city there too (Perth). But trust me, and the fellow Milwauk
126 Mariner : I know Perth well, I am Australian, and I promise that living in Perth isn't the same as trying to maintain a separate identity, a New Zealand identi
127 AirTran717 : I left the company just prior to your statistics. You must be on of those bean counters I spoke of. LOL There is much more to running a company, ANY
128 N917ME : Notice..nothing was said about the Field Station jobs. I believe the overlapping cities will see YX staff cut. Well, you can't go on recent load fact
129 AirTran717 : Okay. Again, read the WHOLE post, not just your own pick and spin, like the media tends to do. What does 70+ mean to the average Joe? That is anwhere
130 AirTran717 : Elsewhere in this thread, the press relase was posted... stating that FL expected to add around 1,100 jobs in MKE. To add the kind of capacity FL cla
131 Luv2fly : Maybe it has more to do with the fact that PBR is crap and people have finally realized that!
132 Post contains images Cubsrule : NW is adding capacity. In 2 years, they could have a 60 flight operation in MKE without leaving anything vulnerable. This is a favorite question of y
133 MUWarriors : Simple, the dynamics of the situation shift significantly if YX is no more. The market would be a free for all, and with NW's following already, they
134 Post contains images HeavyMx1 : I am a little confused why everyone is harping on the job issue so much. Did'nt YX pull the plug on all of their ramp staff or something and contract
135 Luv2fly : Were not supposed to talk about that.
136 Mikey711MN : In all honesty, this flies in the face of all of your woeful tales of Milwaukeeans purportedly abandoning companies that abandoned them, e.g. USBank,
137 Post contains links Travatl : Here's the YX response to AirTran's SEC filing "detailing growth with Midwest merger". (Reuters called it " Midwest attacks AirTran in hopes of dodgin
138 Mariner : I never underestimate anyone. In my world, anything is possible. If they eventually prefer flying Northwest to Midwest/Airtran, I can only shrug. If
139 DAYflyer : Yes you are right. All of the EXECUTIVES at Midwest will be out of work in a jiffy, which is why they are fighting this so hard. The whole thing is v
140 Post contains images HeavyMx1 : Oh, its one of those things. They should learn, its going to happen again one way or another. I think an old saying could be applied to this, expecia
141 MUWarriors : NW was never a Milwaukee based company, that is a huge factor. PBR moved out of town in 1996, and US Bank in 1999 (after Firstar took over US Bank an
142 Travatl : I think ATL currently has about 225 daily departures, but at every "town hall" meeting, Joe states the plan is to bring that to at least 300. Adding 7
143 MUWarriors : They were saying 218, I think, or there about. So it's pretty darn close, how many gates does FL have in ATL?
144 AirTran717 : Okay, what about this post am I not following? It looks like you were stating the obvious here. 300 departures a day minus 218 = 82. Very close to hi
145 N917ME : I would hope it would be busy as ATL is the ONLY HUB for FL!!
146 AirTran737 : FL also has a focus city in BWI that has almost as many seats as YX does in it hub, and MCO is not to far behind.
147 FlyPNS1 : Not even close. Currently, Airtran has about 35 daily departures from BWI (all 717/737). Currently, Midwest has about 62 daily departures from MKE (a
148 AirTran737 : I was only counting YX, not AL. And if you factor in the 117 seats on the 717's at FL vs 88 on the YX 717's then it comes out closer.
149 Quickmover : I thought BWI was more like 50 dailys. BOS is close to 40 I thought.
150 Cubsrule : I'm not sure YX fought that much. People just preferred YX. As was pointed out above, NW enjoys the advantage of not being a hometown carrier. Also,
151 Sideflare75 : Hey go ahead and talk about it. It's been pretty much beat to death on here for the last two years. I think most people will agree that is was a stup
152 MPDPilot : This is exactly what a lot of people don't understand. Milwaukee is different they are the people that will avoid FL if this goes through just becaus
153 AirTran737 : That Sideflare, has YX ever thought of preforming MX work for other airlines to bring in some revenue? You have great facilities, and good mechanics.
154 N917ME : YX stock keeps doing good.. closed up .30 today at 12.85. FL down .08 to close at 10.40. So why would I sell my YX stock for .556 shares of FL stock a
155 Travatl : I was simply responding to YX's claim that the "new MKE" hub as envisioned by AirTran would be larger than the current ATL operation. If we (AirTran)
156 AirTran737 : I believe that 917 doesn't work in MKE. And yes it is David, I have been trying to get a hold of him all day.
157 Sideflare75 : You know they talked about that around 2002 and 2003. Management claimed they were out trying to sell our services to help and fill in the gaps they
158 Stirling : If the carrier is privately owned, there is less pressure. But when the airline has stockholders to answer to, who want dividends on their stock inve
159 WesternA318 : With a couple of deep dark red exclamation points...
160 B757capt : 717[/quote] See folks this is what bugs me. AirTran in the top days in DFW did 39 flights a day. To say we never went over 17 really just pisses me of
161 AirTran737 : Timmy is referring to when AirTran decided to set up a focus city and take on Antichrist Airlines back in 2004. He's right, they never did get above
162 N917ME : According to the SEC filings FL still has the FRJ and the new CRJ''s in their "plan"
163 Travatl : I can kinda see the FRJs and BE1s sticking around under the Skyway op, but the Skywest CRJs wouldn't be around long. A year, tops.
164 HeavyMx1 : While YX stock increase has increased due to their recent profit, it is my understanding that the majority of the increase has been stimulated by the
165 Mainland : Would there be any sort of termination fee or other penalty due to Skywest in that situation?
166 Post contains links and images Mikey711MN : However, over the last two years, MEH stock has done very well in its "organic" growth, and certainly by comparison with AAI stock that has fallen a
167 PHLBOS : I'm sure WN's breaking their long silence and finally legally challenging the W/A (which lead to its gradual (8-year) phase-out with the proposed 22
168 Knope2001 : What is an indicative of trouble at AirTran is that most of their new markets outside of Atlanta and Florida have failed over the past few years. Many
169 Cubsrule : It's also worth noting that even after the merger fire has died down, MEH is still trading significantly closer to its 52 week high than to its 52 we
170 Mariner : You hit it on the head. The spike in MEH shares started in December at the time of the merger offer, to roughly to the price of the merger offer. And
171 Cubsrule : It''ll be interesting to see what happens to the stock price does after the tender date passes. From January to November of last year, the price went
172 N917ME : Actually, the price has been going up before the merger. Some of the increase is due to the fact YX is finally posting a profit again. Remember the 1
173 Mariner : Absolutely true. However, a spike from under $10 to nearly $14 in a very short space of time is - a spike. Since that spike started at the time of th
174 Knope2001 : Just to put some numbers to the stock price question (these are all trades, not just closing price) 2005 First week of December price range of YX stoc
175 Mariner : I think it is also save to assume that since AAI stock comprises some of the offer, the fall in the AAI stock is mirrored in the slightly reduced pri
176 Post contains links and images Daus : OK... Which one of you was it? http://www.jsonline.com/watch/?watch=1&date=3/1/2007&id=19950 Man arrested after making airline threat THURSDAY, March
177 Mainland : No, they do not. "On September 27, 1995, the stock of Midwest Airlines was transferred to the Company in connection with the initial public offering
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