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QR Still Open To Ordering The 787  
User currently offlineNYC777 From United States of America, joined Jun 2004, 5796 posts, RR: 47
Posted (7 years 9 months 4 days 20 hours ago) and read 8033 times:

QR is still open to ordering the 787 if Airbus cannot close the deal with Qr says Al-Baker. He made his comments in Doha. Just headlines on Bloomber but Al-Baker says that Airbus has to finalize the design and close the deal by June if QR is to order the A350 if not then they can go back to Boeing. He also said that the ball is Airbus' (EADS) court.

If this is the state the A350 is in I just don't see how Airbus is going to get it out the door by 2013. It's looking more and more like 2015 IMO.

Boy, what a moron. He had those 60 early delivery slots for the 787. Well QR's loss is QFs gain.

[Edited 2007-02-27 15:20:48]


That which does not kill me makes me stronger.
33 replies: All unread, showing first 25:
 
User currently offlineEI321 From Iraq, joined Jul 2009, 0 posts, RR: 0
Reply 1, posted (7 years 9 months 4 days 20 hours ago) and read 8005 times:

I dont get this. First there is no A350, and he reserves 787s. Then Airbus launch the old A350, he cancels the 787s and commits to the A350 but does not sign. Then roumers of 787s again, and nothing. Then Airbus launches the A350XWB, more roumers persist, and still no firm order. Is it airbus who cannot finalise a deal, or can he not finalise a deal with anybody? Ask for too much and you end up with nothing.

User currently offlineNYC777 From United States of America, joined Jun 2004, 5796 posts, RR: 47
Reply 2, posted (7 years 9 months 4 days 20 hours ago) and read 7974 times:

He made a seriously bad miscalculation is going with the A350 vs the 787 even though the 787 is so much more superior to the A350 now he has to wait for Airbus to go through the various iterations of the A350 and in the end he may end up with a good plane but not that good vs the 787. And he would probably have to pay more for the A350.

Like I said...he's a moron.

[Edited 2007-02-27 15:25:39]


That which does not kill me makes me stronger.
User currently offlineSlz396 From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 3, posted (7 years 9 months 4 days 20 hours ago) and read 7994 times:

Just some firm talk about the 787 from him now to show he has other options as well but to sign for the A350XWB.

In reality the chances of QR ordering the 787 are about 0.0%.


User currently offlineEI321 From Iraq, joined Jul 2009, 0 posts, RR: 0
Reply 4, posted (7 years 9 months 4 days 20 hours ago) and read 7968 times:

Quoting NYC777 (Reply 2):
even though the 787 is so much more superior to the A350

A350 yes
A350XWB no


User currently offlineDAYflyer From United States of America, joined Sep 2004, 3807 posts, RR: 3
Reply 5, posted (7 years 9 months 4 days 20 hours ago) and read 7952 times:

Quoting NYC777 (Thread starter):
Boy, what a moron. He had those 60 early delivery slots for the 787. Well QR's loss is QFs gain.

Agreed. As they say in the Latin, "Moronus Maximus".

Quoting EI321 (Reply 1):
Is it airbus who cannot finalise a deal, or can he not finalise a deal with anybody? Ask for too much and you end up with nothing

EK could learn a big lesson here. They have been screwing around with the 787-10 vs A-350 (all designs) for what, 3 years now?



One Nation Under God
User currently offlineClickhappy From United States of America, joined Sep 2001, 9654 posts, RR: 68
Reply 6, posted (7 years 9 months 4 days 20 hours ago) and read 7930 times:
AIRLINERS.NET CREW
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what a silly comment.

If Airbus can't 'close the deal' (whatever the hell that means) and QR needs that (A350/787) type of lift, what other choice does he have?

How does this even qualify as news?

Did Airbus say the A350ABCItsaseasyas123 wouldn't be 'frozen' until 2008? Even with Airbus style math that is well past June. Unless of course Al-Baker means June of some future year.


User currently offlineLumberton From United States of America, joined Jul 2005, 4708 posts, RR: 20
Reply 7, posted (7 years 9 months 4 days 19 hours ago) and read 7800 times:

Quoting Slz396 (Reply 3):
ust some firm talk about the 787 from him now to show he has other options as well but to sign for the A350XWB.
In reality the chances of QR ordering the 787 are about 0.0%.

Quite right IMO, Slz396. This appears to rather opportunistic posturing on Mr. al Baker's part. No doubt he will drive a handsome deal on the A350XWB, perhaps even painful from EADS point of view, but in the end he'll sign with Airbus. Even if Boeing had the slots available earlier than 2013, they would unlikely give up a potential order from the likes of EK, BA, AA, UA, DL, etc., just to "turn" QR.

Here it is, a year and a half after the 2005 Paris Airshow and we still don't know what "up to 60" A350s for QR means!



"When all is said and done, more will be said than done".
User currently offlineClickhappy From United States of America, joined Sep 2001, 9654 posts, RR: 68
Reply 8, posted (7 years 9 months 4 days 19 hours ago) and read 7733 times:
AIRLINERS.NET CREW
PHOTO SCREENER

Not sure how more orders equals a better plane??? Talk about some jacked-up math.

Until both are flying it is a pointless fanboy discussion.


User currently offlineDAYflyer From United States of America, joined Sep 2004, 3807 posts, RR: 3
Reply 9, posted (7 years 9 months 4 days 19 hours ago) and read 7683 times:

Lets put aside the sqaubble about which airplane is better for a moment and concentrate on the stupidity of the statement made by the airline, shall we?


One Nation Under God
User currently offlineJAAlbert From United States of America, joined Jan 2006, 1623 posts, RR: 1
Reply 10, posted (7 years 9 months 4 days 19 hours ago) and read 7673 times:

Quoting Clickhappy (Reply 7):
How does this even qualify as news?

Well the news part is if QR just issued a June, 2007 deadline for firming the 350xwb. When did Airbus say the design well be firm? Is the 2008 date mentioned in an earlier post correct?


User currently offlineNYC777 From United States of America, joined Jun 2004, 5796 posts, RR: 47
Reply 11, posted (7 years 9 months 4 days 19 hours ago) and read 7614 times:

Here's teh link to the article:

http://www.bloomberg.com/apps/news?p...=conews&tkr=BA:US&sid=a0Iv.zwpmLmk



That which does not kill me makes me stronger.
User currently offlineClickhappy From United States of America, joined Sep 2001, 9654 posts, RR: 68
Reply 12, posted (7 years 9 months 4 days 19 hours ago) and read 7564 times:
AIRLINERS.NET CREW
PHOTO SCREENER

When did Airbus say the design well be firm? Is the 2008 date mentioned in an earlier post correct?

http://www.flightglobal.com/Articles...icleID=211028&PrinterFriendly=true

From the above article:

However Airbus executive vice-president programmes Tom Williams says the design freeze milestone, dubbed "main gate 7" (M7), is not due until late 2008, around six months later than when the XWB was first announced. "We have just passed 'M3', which enabled us to lock down the definition of the aircraft. M7 is scheduled for late 2008."


User currently offlineStitch From United States of America, joined Jul 2005, 31259 posts, RR: 85
Reply 13, posted (7 years 9 months 4 days 18 hours ago) and read 7468 times:
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Perhaps QIA has been watching Putin and will now tie the QR order to their desire for 20% of EADS just as Putin tied the SU order to getting more then 6% of EADS?  devil 

User currently offlineQatarA340 From Qatar, joined May 2006, 1880 posts, RR: 10
Reply 14, posted (7 years 9 months 4 days 18 hours ago) and read 7809 times:

People are forgeting that QR ordered 20 777s to be delievered from this year until 2010. QR also has 20 more options. My GUESS:

a. QR will take those 20 777 options
b. QR will order those A350's to be delievered from 2014
c. The 777 will help QR's growth in the interim until the A350 begin to arrive. (from 2010-2014)
d. The A350 will replace the A330s
e. Boeing is happy, Airbus is happy, QR is happy



لا اله الا الله محمد رسول الله
User currently offlineBlatantEcho From United States of America, joined Sep 2000, 1920 posts, RR: 1
Reply 15, posted (7 years 9 months 4 days 18 hours ago) and read 7532 times:

You can just 'switch to a spun barrel'

Boeing has been working the knowledge tree on this for YEARS. They bought laminate tape drives from North Sails, they bought up years worth of Carbon Fiber production. It's been a huge process, just to get to the point where they said...ok, we can no design an airplane around this technology.

The only thing I assume is that airbus is working very hard to figure out what they can do to get as CLOSE as possible, given the current timeframe. If they can spin a full barrel airplane, less than a year after wanting aluminum, then 6 months after wanting panels, then they are smarter and more capable than we all think.



They're not handing trophies out today
User currently offlineStitch From United States of America, joined Jul 2005, 31259 posts, RR: 85
Reply 16, posted (7 years 9 months 4 days 18 hours ago) and read 7467 times:
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Or airlines have been so sold by Boeing on spun-barrel CFRP fuselages that Airbus just can't get sufficient traction to land a large spate of orders to launch the program into formal development and production.

When even heavy hitters like QR and SU (over 80 frames) continue to say "the 787 remains an option" even though everyone and their grandmother swears the A350XWB is a done deal and EK keeps dancing around with an order bigger then both combined, one starts to wonder...


User currently offlineAirFrnt From United States of America, joined Jul 2004, 2827 posts, RR: 42
Reply 17, posted (7 years 9 months 4 days 18 hours ago) and read 7442 times:

Quoting EI321 (Reply 1):
I dont get this. First there is no A350, and he reserves 787s. Then Airbus launch the old A350, he cancels the 787s and commits to the A350 but does not sign. Then roumers of 787s again, and nothing. Then Airbus launches the A350XWB, more roumers persist, and still no firm order. Is it airbus who cannot finalise a deal, or can he not finalise a deal with anybody? Ask for too much and you end up with nothing.

After 5 years of watching EK and QR, my only thought is that this should not surprise anyone. EK and QR have never been what one would call sane businesses. (BTW, please go grab the newest Firefox with the build in spell check... it will help a lot).


User currently offlineEI321 From Iraq, joined Jul 2009, 0 posts, RR: 0
Reply 18, posted (7 years 9 months 4 days 17 hours ago) and read 7383 times:

Quoting BlatantEcho (Reply 34):
You can just 'switch to a spun barrel'

Is the A400 a CFRP spun aircraft?


User currently offlineStitch From United States of America, joined Jul 2005, 31259 posts, RR: 85
Reply 19, posted (7 years 9 months 4 days 17 hours ago) and read 7303 times:
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Quoting EI321 (Reply 37):
Is the A400 a CFRP spun aircraft?

No. The wings are made of CFRP, however the fuselage is "traditional" Al in design and construction.

You can see pictures of the first production fuselage here - http://www.a400m-countdown.com/index.php?v=4&spage=2


User currently offlineHB88 From United Kingdom, joined Sep 2005, 817 posts, RR: 31
Reply 20, posted (7 years 9 months 4 days 14 hours ago) and read 6188 times:

Quoting Osiris30 (Reply 48):
Quoting HB88 (Reply 45):
They might. That depends largely on how the 787 pans out in service.

Hard to phathom a 787 in service wouldn't be better than a nothing in service for a capacity constrained airline (which was more my point vs. the efficiency of either aircraft).

Ah ok. I was comparing the 787 against any and all other offerings.


User currently offlineOsiris30 From Barbados, joined Sep 2006, 3192 posts, RR: 25
Reply 21, posted (7 years 9 months 4 days 14 hours ago) and read 6078 times:

Quoting HB88 (Reply 50):

Ah ok. I was comparing the 787 against any and all other offerings.

Nope, was merely saying that if the 350 ends up being late then the decision to forego early 787 slots will look like a very poor choice. Again this is on the assumption that QR is infact capacity constrained going forward, which frankly, given the growth both they and EK are predicting is hard to believe.



I don't care what you think of my opinion. It's my opinion, so have a nice day :)
User currently offlineSangas From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 22, posted (7 years 9 months 4 days 13 hours ago) and read 5647 times:

Quoting HB88 (Reply 45):
the 350 - I think it will be one sweet aircraft

Weren't you saying essentially the same thing a couple of design iterations ago?


User currently offlineHB88 From United Kingdom, joined Sep 2005, 817 posts, RR: 31
Reply 23, posted (7 years 9 months 4 days 12 hours ago) and read 5582 times:

Quoting ScottB (Reply 52):
Quoting HB88 (Reply 45):
"Anyway, I for sure don't think Airbus will flub the 350 - I think it will be one sweet aircraft."

Got those rose-colored Airbus Beer Goggles on yourself?

Um, do you really think there's no difference between saying:

(Quoting NYC777 (Reply 6)
"The 787 is a superior plane to either iteration of the A350 (whether it be the XWB or not)."

and saying (me) "I think the 350 will be a sweet aircraft."?

Maybe I'm a little slow, but they seem quite different to me.

Anyway, I do know a fair bit about the progress of the 350 and I would happily stand by my speculative opinion. But of course your mileage may vary.


User currently offlineCXfirst From Norway, joined Jan 2007, 3083 posts, RR: 1
Reply 24, posted (7 years 9 months 4 days 11 hours ago) and read 5248 times:

Quoting NYC777 (Thread starter):
If this is the state the A350 is in I just don't see how Airbus is going to get it out the door by 2013. It's looking more and more like 2015 IMO.

Why do you say that? If the A350 takes about the same time to be ceritfied as the 787, and the 787 has barely started to be produced (late 2006 (?)) and will be certified and in production in 2008, then they do not have to start to build the A350 until 2011, loads of time.

-CXfirst



From Norway, live in Australia
25 NYC777 : Airbus hasn't even begun designing the A350 and they haven't started their re-organization as well as choosing suppliers, etc. That along with Airbus
26 ANCFlyer : I eliminated 43 childish, elementary school posts from this thread. I'll leave the thread open - for now. Next off topic remark, personal attack, crac
27 Post contains images Autothrust : We will see, now its to early to talk about performance. I dont think the chances are that low, but i agree Airbus can only loose this one if they do
28 DfwRevolution : And when was the last time Airbus achieved their in-service delivery target? Not only does Airbus tend to move slower at developing new aircraft, the
29 Lokey123 : Well that won't seem to matter, was talking to some people today and it seems as though Boeing is sold out on the 787 until 2015, don't ask me to who
30 Post contains images PEET7G : How on earth can anyone argue on superiority of two aircrafts of which none are flying and in case of one of them, not even the manufacturer knows wh
31 CXfirst : However, it can still be done, but only if there are no more big issues (and not a lot of minor ones either) with their design. I want to say "anyone
32 SEPilot : It is always hardest to do something for the first time. Once someone has done it establishes that it can be done, which makes the next attempt easie
33 Stitch : Yet if the 787 ends up being the better choice for them, waiting a year - or even two - for it won't be that great a burden for them since they have
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