NYC777 From United States of America, joined Jun 2004, 5905 posts, RR: 45 Posted (8 years 7 months 2 weeks 1 day 3 hours ago) and read 8598 times:
QR is still open to ordering the 787 if Airbus cannot close the deal with Qr says Al-Baker. He made his comments in Doha. Just headlines on Bloomber but Al-Baker says that Airbus has to finalize the design and close the deal by June if QR is to order the A350 if not then they can go back to Boeing. He also said that the ball is Airbus' (EADS) court.
If this is the state the A350 is in I just don't see how Airbus is going to get it out the door by 2013. It's looking more and more like 2015 IMO.
Boy, what a moron. He had those 60 early delivery slots for the 787. Well QR's loss is QFs gain.
EI321 From Iraq, joined Jul 2009, 0 posts, RR: 0
Reply 1, posted (8 years 7 months 2 weeks 1 day 3 hours ago) and read 8570 times:
I dont get this. First there is no A350, and he reserves 787s. Then Airbus launch the old A350, he cancels the 787s and commits to the A350 but does not sign. Then roumers of 787s again, and nothing. Then Airbus launches the A350XWB, more roumers persist, and still no firm order. Is it airbus who cannot finalise a deal, or can he not finalise a deal with anybody? Ask for too much and you end up with nothing.
NYC777 From United States of America, joined Jun 2004, 5905 posts, RR: 45
Reply 2, posted (8 years 7 months 2 weeks 1 day 3 hours ago) and read 8539 times:
He made a seriously bad miscalculation is going with the A350 vs the 787 even though the 787 is so much more superior to the A350 now he has to wait for Airbus to go through the various iterations of the A350 and in the end he may end up with a good plane but not that good vs the 787. And he would probably have to pay more for the A350.
Lumberton From United States of America, joined Jul 2005, 4708 posts, RR: 19
Reply 7, posted (8 years 7 months 2 weeks 1 day 2 hours ago) and read 8365 times:
Quoting Slz396 (Reply 3): ust some firm talk about the 787 from him now to show he has other options as well but to sign for the A350XWB.
In reality the chances of QR ordering the 787 are about 0.0%.
Quite right IMO, Slz396. This appears to rather opportunistic posturing on Mr. al Baker's part. No doubt he will drive a handsome deal on the A350XWB, perhaps even painful from EADS point of view, but in the end he'll sign with Airbus. Even if Boeing had the slots available earlier than 2013, they would unlikely give up a potential order from the likes of EK, BA, AA, UA, DL, etc., just to "turn" QR.
Here it is, a year and a half after the 2005 Paris Airshow and we still don't know what "up to 60" A350s for QR means!
"When all is said and done, more will be said than done".
However Airbus executive vice-president programmes Tom Williams says the design freeze milestone, dubbed "main gate 7" (M7), is not due until late 2008, around six months later than when the XWB was first announced. "We have just passed 'M3', which enabled us to lock down the definition of the aircraft. M7 is scheduled for late 2008."
QatarA340 From Qatar, joined May 2006, 1980 posts, RR: 6
Reply 14, posted (8 years 7 months 2 weeks 1 day 2 hours ago) and read 8374 times:
People are forgeting that QR ordered 20 777s to be delievered from this year until 2010. QR also has 20 more options. My GUESS:
a. QR will take those 20 777 options
b. QR will order those A350's to be delievered from 2014
c. The 777 will help QR's growth in the interim until the A350 begin to arrive. (from 2010-2014)
d. The A350 will replace the A330s
e. Boeing is happy, Airbus is happy, QR is happy
BlatantEcho From United States of America, joined Sep 2000, 1982 posts, RR: 1
Reply 15, posted (8 years 7 months 2 weeks 1 day 1 hour ago) and read 8097 times:
You can just 'switch to a spun barrel'
Boeing has been working the knowledge tree on this for YEARS. They bought laminate tape drives from North Sails, they bought up years worth of Carbon Fiber production. It's been a huge process, just to get to the point where they said...ok, we can no design an airplane around this technology.
The only thing I assume is that airbus is working very hard to figure out what they can do to get as CLOSE as possible, given the current timeframe. If they can spin a full barrel airplane, less than a year after wanting aluminum, then 6 months after wanting panels, then they are smarter and more capable than we all think.
Stitch From United States of America, joined Jul 2005, 33124 posts, RR: 85
Reply 16, posted (8 years 7 months 2 weeks 1 day 1 hour ago) and read 8032 times:
Or airlines have been so sold by Boeing on spun-barrel CFRP fuselages that Airbus just can't get sufficient traction to land a large spate of orders to launch the program into formal development and production.
When even heavy hitters like QR and SU (over 80 frames) continue to say "the 787 remains an option" even though everyone and their grandmother swears the A350XWB is a done deal and EK keeps dancing around with an order bigger then both combined, one starts to wonder...
AirFrnt From United States of America, joined Jul 2004, 2833 posts, RR: 41
Reply 17, posted (8 years 7 months 2 weeks 1 day 1 hour ago) and read 8007 times:
Quoting EI321 (Reply 1): I dont get this. First there is no A350, and he reserves 787s. Then Airbus launch the old A350, he cancels the 787s and commits to the A350 but does not sign. Then roumers of 787s again, and nothing. Then Airbus launches the A350XWB, more roumers persist, and still no firm order. Is it airbus who cannot finalise a deal, or can he not finalise a deal with anybody? Ask for too much and you end up with nothing.
After 5 years of watching EK and QR, my only thought is that this should not surprise anyone. EK and QR have never been what one would call sane businesses. (BTW, please go grab the newest Firefox with the build in spell check... it will help a lot).
Osiris30 From Barbados, joined Sep 2006, 3238 posts, RR: 26
Reply 21, posted (8 years 7 months 2 weeks 21 hours ago) and read 6643 times:
Quoting HB88 (Reply 50):
Ah ok. I was comparing the 787 against any and all other offerings.
Nope, was merely saying that if the 350 ends up being late then the decision to forego early 787 slots will look like a very poor choice. Again this is on the assumption that QR is infact capacity constrained going forward, which frankly, given the growth both they and EK are predicting is hard to believe.
I don't care what you think of my opinion. It's my opinion, so have a nice day :)
CXfirst From Norway, joined Jan 2007, 3255 posts, RR: 1
Reply 24, posted (8 years 7 months 2 weeks 19 hours ago) and read 5813 times:
Quoting NYC777 (Thread starter): If this is the state the A350 is in I just don't see how Airbus is going to get it out the door by 2013. It's looking more and more like 2015 IMO.
Why do you say that? If the A350 takes about the same time to be ceritfied as the 787, and the 787 has barely started to be produced (late 2006 (?)) and will be certified and in production in 2008, then they do not have to start to build the A350 until 2011, loads of time.
From Norway, live in Australia
: Airbus hasn't even begun designing the A350 and they haven't started their re-organization as well as choosing suppliers, etc. That along with Airbus
: I eliminated 43 childish, elementary school posts from this thread. I'll leave the thread open - for now. Next off topic remark, personal attack, crac
: We will see, now its to early to talk about performance. I dont think the chances are that low, but i agree Airbus can only loose this one if they do
: And when was the last time Airbus achieved their in-service delivery target? Not only does Airbus tend to move slower at developing new aircraft, the
: Well that won't seem to matter, was talking to some people today and it seems as though Boeing is sold out on the 787 until 2015, don't ask me to who
: How on earth can anyone argue on superiority of two aircrafts of which none are flying and in case of one of them, not even the manufacturer knows wh
: However, it can still be done, but only if there are no more big issues (and not a lot of minor ones either) with their design. I want to say "anyone
: It is always hardest to do something for the first time. Once someone has done it establishes that it can be done, which makes the next attempt easie
: Yet if the 787 ends up being the better choice for them, waiting a year - or even two - for it won't be that great a burden for them since they have