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CVG Is #1 Again!  
User currently offlineDeltaFFinDFW From United States of America, joined Sep 2003, 1440 posts, RR: 0
Posted (7 years 5 months 4 weeks 7 hours ago) and read 9744 times:

http://news.enquirer.com/apps/pbcs.d...icle?AID=/20070227/BIZ01/302270035

New: We're No. 1!

BY ALEXANDER COOLIDGE | ACOOLIDGE@ENQUIRER.COM

We’re No. 1, again. And again, and again, and again.

The Cincinnati/Northern Kentucky International Airport has wracked up an entire year atop the list of the nation’s most expensive major airports to fly.

The average roundtrip ticket here costs $556 - $80 more than No. 2 ranked San Francisco International with an average far of $476, according to a new report issued by the Department of Transportation’s Office of Aviation Analysis. The latest data is from the third quarter of 2006.

Rounding out the top five: No. 3, Washington Dulles International with an average roundtrip fare of $434; at No. 4, Dallas/Fort Worth International with tickets averaging $428; and Newark (N.J.) International Airport with tickets averaging $422.

60 replies: All unread, showing first 25:
 
User currently offlineB6WNQX From United States of America, joined Jun 2006, 245 posts, RR: 0
Reply 1, posted (7 years 5 months 4 weeks 7 hours ago) and read 9708 times:

That's quite impressive considering a lot of the flights would probably be within 3 hours I'm guessing as most are probably regional to Florida and neighboring states. Where is WN when you need them to offer the $44 fares for a 1 1/2 hour flight and $79 for a 2 1/2 hour flight. Shoot the highest fare WN offers for a connecting transcon (PDX-BWI) is $339. That is over $200 less than CVG's avg fare. I have sympathy to those who have to pay those high fees.

User currently offlineORD From United States of America, joined Jul 1999, 1381 posts, RR: 1
Reply 2, posted (7 years 5 months 4 weeks 7 hours ago) and read 9652 times:

The article says CVG is Delta's second largest hub. I guess when you include Delta Connection flights it is, but in terms of mainline service it has fallen below both Salt Lake City and JFK.

User currently offlineXJRamper From United States of America, joined Dec 2003, 2460 posts, RR: 51
Reply 3, posted (7 years 5 months 4 weeks 7 hours ago) and read 9615 times:

Quoting B6WNQX (Reply 1):
That's quite impressive considering a lot of the flights would probably be within 3 hours I'm guessing as most are probably regional to Florida and neighboring states. Where is WN when you need them to offer the $44 fares for a 1 1/2 hour flight and $79 for a 2 1/2 hour flight. Shoot the highest fare WN offers for a connecting transcon (PDX-BWI) is $339. That is over $200 less than CVG's avg fare. I have sympathy to those who have to pay those high fees.

True, but connecting where?

I would rather fly non-stop and pay 500 then have to stop 3 or 4 places for 350.

Here is a sample fare closest to the city in question departing from CMH to JAX on WN.

Total fare in a month will be $432 on southwest round trip.

I did a flight on DL from CMH-JAX the same days, I found total fare of $189.90 round trip.

So, in keeping with the theme of this thread I went for a flight direct CVG-JAX, and the round trip total is $279.80 round trip.

XJR



Look ma' no hands!
User currently offlineEjmmsu From United States of America, joined Oct 2004, 1692 posts, RR: 0
Reply 4, posted (7 years 5 months 4 weeks 6 hours ago) and read 9515 times:

Quoting XJRamper (Reply 3):
True, but connecting where?

I would rather fly non-stop and pay 500 then have to stop 3 or 4 places for 350.

Here is a sample fare closest to the city in question departing from CMH to JAX on WN.

Total fare in a month will be $432 on southwest round trip.

I did a flight on DL from CMH-JAX the same days, I found total fare of $189.90 round trip.

So, in keeping with the theme of this thread I went for a flight direct CVG-JAX, and the round trip total is $279.80 round trip.

XJR

For every example like that, there are 20 with the opposite situation.

Leaving April 14th and Coming back April 15...

STL-OKC-STL is $117 total R/T on WN

CVG-OKC-CVG is $458 total R/T on DL



"If the facts do not conform to the theory, they will have to be disposed of"
User currently offlineIndy From United States of America, joined Jan 2005, 4548 posts, RR: 18
Reply 5, posted (7 years 5 months 4 weeks 6 hours ago) and read 9476 times:

DL... the people at IND thank you for your insane pricing tactics  Smile

Quoting DeltaFFinDFW (Thread starter):
New: We're No. 1!

BTW I don't think you are supposed to celebrate that ranking  Smile Thats like celebrating being #1 in the NFL in giveaways.



Indy = Indianapolis and not Independence Air
User currently offlineHPRamper From United States of America, joined May 2005, 4056 posts, RR: 8
Reply 6, posted (7 years 5 months 4 weeks 6 hours ago) and read 9477 times:

Where's Southwest when you need them? I'm sure WN could turn a fortune if they moved into CVG.

User currently offlineXJRamper From United States of America, joined Dec 2003, 2460 posts, RR: 51
Reply 7, posted (7 years 5 months 4 weeks 6 hours ago) and read 9461 times:

Quoting Ejmmsu (Reply 4):

For every example like that, there are 20 with the opposite situation.

Leaving April 14th and Coming back April 15...

STL-OKC-STL is $117 total R/T on WN

CVG-OKC-CVG is $458 total R/T on DL

What I am trying to do is show examples from similar markets (within driving distance). STL and BWI-PDX have nothing to do with CVG. You have a completely different market between stl and cvg and between bwi ad pdx.

I however, agree with you Eric. There are plenty of counter examples. It was the first one that I pulled out of my head because Florida was mentioned and I knew both DL and WN flew there.

The purpose was to show that WN isn't always the cheapest and that it had nothing to do with how expensive it is to fly out of CVG. Don't recall WN being in the original thread.  Smile

XJR



Look ma' no hands!
User currently offlineDAYflyer From United States of America, joined Sep 2004, 3807 posts, RR: 3
Reply 8, posted (7 years 5 months 4 weeks 6 hours ago) and read 9416 times:

Quoting DeltaFFinDFW (Thread starter):
We’re No. 1, again. And again, and again, and again.

The Cincinnati/Northern Kentucky International Airport has wracked up an entire year atop the list of the nation’s most expensive major airports to fly.

Which explains why people are driving to DAY to catch flights which are much cheaper....on the same airline which is responsible for the high fares at CVG.

CVG is also number 1 in the amount of CRJ and RJ flights....is there a correllation? You bet.

Ever since DL dropped the Simplifares plan, CVG area residents take in the shorts. You can bet if there were a mainline LCC like LUV or B6 or FL there wouldn't be this issue.



One Nation Under God
User currently offlineIndy From United States of America, joined Jan 2005, 4548 posts, RR: 18
Reply 9, posted (7 years 5 months 4 weeks 6 hours ago) and read 9370 times:

If I want to fly DL from IND to LAS via CVG I can fly for as cheap as $600 including tax. Flight 711 from CVG to LAS and Flight 708 from LAS to CVG. If I lived in Cincinnati and I took 711 and 708 on the very same dates I'd be paying almost $1100. I'd be a more expensive passenger since I had to take two flights to make the same trip but I'd be paying 55% of what the person in Cincinnati would have paid for the exact same CVG-LAS flights.


Indy = Indianapolis and not Independence Air
User currently offlineJohnboy From United States of America, joined Aug 1999, 2581 posts, RR: 7
Reply 10, posted (7 years 5 months 4 weeks 5 hours ago) and read 9251 times:

It's become quite the sport to count the number of Ohio license plates on those rare occasions when I fly back to SDF.....hey Louisville thanks you too, DL!

User currently offlineMah584jr From United States of America, joined Mar 2006, 509 posts, RR: 0
Reply 11, posted (7 years 5 months 4 weeks 5 hours ago) and read 9163 times:

The prices at CVG are inflated because of airport fees and because Delta has no competitor there.

User currently offlineLogos From United States of America, joined Jan 2000, 793 posts, RR: 1
Reply 12, posted (7 years 5 months 4 weeks 4 hours ago) and read 9138 times:

Quoting Mah584jr (Reply 11):
The prices at CVG are inflated because of airport fees and because Delta has no competitor there

Bingo. There was a thread a week or so ago that dealt with what city was the most captive to a single airline. As I thought about it, I couldn't think of one more captive to an airline and it's regional partners than Cincinnati is to Delta. There is scarcely even any other mainline service there from other airlines - just regional affiliates. No wonder the fares are high. You would think that Southwest or another LCC would take notice of this and offer some alternatives.

Cheers,
Dave in Orlando



Too many types flown to list
User currently offlineFlydl2atl From United States of America, joined Aug 2005, 119 posts, RR: 0
Reply 13, posted (7 years 5 months 4 weeks 4 hours ago) and read 9125 times:

If it wasn't for DL the fares would be lower....but there would be a a lot less destinations to choose from. CVG is lucky to have Delta.

User currently offlineSLCUT2777 From United States of America, joined Dec 2005, 4050 posts, RR: 11
Reply 14, posted (7 years 5 months 4 weeks 4 hours ago) and read 9102 times:

Quoting Flydl2atl (Reply 13):
If it wasn't for DL the fares would be lower....but there would be a a lot less destinations to choose from. CVG is lucky to have Delta.

 checkmark  But you do need WN and FL, not to mention F9 and B6 to get your fares under control. SLC is also in the top dozen or so since WN only carries about 15% of the O&D passengers.



DELTA Air Lines; The Only Way To Fly from Salt Lake City; Let the Western Heritage always be with Delta!
User currently offlineEjmmsu From United States of America, joined Oct 2004, 1692 posts, RR: 0
Reply 15, posted (7 years 5 months 4 weeks 4 hours ago) and read 9091 times:

Quoting SLCUT2777 (Reply 14):
checkmark But you do need WN and FL, not to mention F9 and B6 to get your fares under control. SLC is also in the top dozen or so since WN only carries about 15% of the O&D passengers.

If I had the choice to live in a city with a CVG type airport, or an IND/RDU/BNA type airport, choosing the IND/RDU/BNA type airport is a no-brainer. You still get non-stops to all the big destinations, and fares are much lower.



"If the facts do not conform to the theory, they will have to be disposed of"
User currently offlineRwSEA From Netherlands, joined Jan 2005, 3092 posts, RR: 2
Reply 16, posted (7 years 5 months 4 weeks 4 hours ago) and read 9035 times:

Quoting Ejmmsu (Reply 15):
If I had the choice to live in a city with a CVG type airport, or an IND/RDU/BNA type airport, choosing the IND/RDU/BNA type airport is a no-brainer. You still get non-stops to all the big destinations, and fares are much lower

But you'd also have little to no international service, and very limited service to the West Coast. The business pax in and around CVG, as well as travelling to CVG, are willing to pay for the convenience of a non-stop. The family headed to their annual Orlando vacation wanting to pay $100 roundtrip will be willing to drive to another city to get cheaper airfare. But that isn't the market DL is trying to target anyways.

The reality is that DL is doing what it takes to make CVG profitable. The alternative is no hub. I think CVG is better served today then it would be if it were a simple spoke to ATL, JFK, and SLC. And unfortunately, the market isn't so big that the LCCs would just be dying to get in. Look at PIT for instance - WN and B6 have added flights, but the airport is still poorly served compared to the days when US was at their largest.


User currently offlineJbmitt From United States of America, joined Jan 2002, 547 posts, RR: 2
Reply 17, posted (7 years 5 months 4 weeks 4 hours ago) and read 9019 times:

I live in Cincinnati and fly DL out of CVG whenever it is not more than 200 dollars more expensive than DAY or CMH, otherwise I will connect.

Non-stops to CDG,LGW, FRA, FCO, AMS, ANC, HNL among normal markets are worth a premium to me. Sure I will take a flight from DAY or CMH because of the extra MQMs, miles, and frequent denied boarding ticket vouchers. I figure that the extra driving, and time connecting are not worth more than 200 dollars a trip to me.


User currently offlineEvan767 From United States of America, joined Aug 2005, 2957 posts, RR: 2
Reply 18, posted (7 years 5 months 4 weeks 4 hours ago) and read 9008 times:

Quoting B6WNQX (Reply 1):
Where is WN when you need them to offer the $44 fares for a 1 1/2 hour flight and $79 for a 2 1/2 hour flight

WN could not make money on a flight like that. CVG is extremely costly for airlines to operate in/out of, which is why you won't see a low cost carrier operate into there. Maybe if WN flew 777s on these routes, and filled em up it might be a different story.

Quoting HPRamper (Reply 6):
Where's Southwest when you need them? I'm sure WN could turn a fortune if they moved into CVG.

Doubt it. See above.

The fares to fly out of CVG are extremely high because operating costs for airlines are extremely high. Look at how DL is expanding out of ATL, which has a noticibly lower operating cost than CVG.



The proper term is "on final" not "on finals" bud...
User currently offlineSLCUT2777 From United States of America, joined Dec 2005, 4050 posts, RR: 11
Reply 19, posted (7 years 5 months 4 weeks 4 hours ago) and read 9000 times:

Quoting RwSEA (Reply 16):
The reality is that DL is doing what it takes to make CVG profitable. The alternative is no hub. I think CVG is better served today then it would be if it were a simple spoke to ATL, JFK, and SLC. And unfortunately, the market isn't so big that the LCCs would just be dying to get in. Look at PIT for instance - WN and B6 have added flights,

I should also point out that the "rust-belt" hubs are really not what they once were. Both CVG and PIT aren't anywhere near what they were 2-3 decades ago when they had percentage wise many more O&D passengers. Mountain Time Zone hubs like DEN, PHX and SLC have actually seen their numbers increase substantially.



DELTA Air Lines; The Only Way To Fly from Salt Lake City; Let the Western Heritage always be with Delta!
User currently offlineEjmmsu From United States of America, joined Oct 2004, 1692 posts, RR: 0
Reply 20, posted (7 years 5 months 4 weeks 4 hours ago) and read 8956 times:

Quoting RwSEA (Reply 16):
But you'd also have little to no international service, and very limited service to the West Coast.

I would be willing to connect to an international flight via a hub so I wouldn't have to pay $450 for a r/t ticket to OKC when my friends in STL can pay $117.

IND has n/s flights to SFO, LAX, LAS, on NW

BNA has n/s flights to SEA and LAX

Quoting RwSEA (Reply 16):
The business pax in and around CVG, as well as travelling to CVG, are willing to pay for the convenience of a non-stop. The family headed to their annual Orlando vacation wanting to pay $100 roundtrip will be willing to drive to another city to get cheaper airfare. But that isn't the market DL is trying to target anyways.

But that is no good for those of us in the middle, like me, who fly about 25000 miles per year, but don't have a business buying our tickets for us.



"If the facts do not conform to the theory, they will have to be disposed of"
User currently offlineSkibum9 From United States of America, joined Nov 2001, 1229 posts, RR: 0
Reply 21, posted (7 years 5 months 4 weeks 3 hours ago) and read 8827 times:

Quoting XJRamper (Reply 3):
I would rather fly non-stop and pay 500 then have to stop 3 or 4 places for 350.



Quoting DAYflyer (Reply 8):
Ever since DL dropped the Simplifares plan, CVG area residents take in the shorts. You can bet if there were a mainline LCC like LUV or B6 or FL there wouldn't be this issue.

XJRamper I think you underestimate how ticked off the consumer is with the prices in Cincinnati and how many do not share your opinion. DAYflyer is right that the residents are taking it in the shorts. I live in Cincinnati and work for one of the top 5 corporations in town. We have been asked to use alternative airports because of the airfare. Last week I had to go to SFO and roundtrip out of CVG was $800+, where as it was $300 out of DAY. Yes the connection in CVG or ATL is inconvenient, but that kind of savings cannot be ignored, especially when you have 100s of employees flying every day. In fact, the traffic in DAY has picked up so much, when I got to DAY, both the long-term and medium-term parking lots were full. DAY has caught onto all the Cincinnatians coming to their airport and recently raised short-term parking to $25 a day. So why DL gouges the Cincinnatians on airfare, DAY is now gouging on the parking, but it still works out less then flying out of CVG in many cases.

Quoting RwSEA (Reply 16):
The business pax in and around CVG, as well as travelling to CVG, are willing to pay for the convenience of a non-stop.

That is no longer entirely true. As I referenced above, I work for one of the top 5 employers in Cincinnati, and we have been told to use DAY, or IND or SDF, when it is cheaper. Also, look at P&G, after its contract with DL was voided in bankruptcy, it has now signed on with AA. AA has now added flights to DFW and LGA. So your theory the the business pax are willing to pay is cracking! Additionally, DL has cut back so many flights that at times it is inconvenient to fly DL. For example, the night time bank has been cut to a point where in many cases you cannot flyout in the morning and come back that evening. That with the prices does not sit well with businesses, and thus they are looking for alternatives.



Tailwinds!!!
User currently offline2H4 From United States of America, joined Oct 2004, 8955 posts, RR: 60
Reply 22, posted (7 years 5 months 4 weeks 2 hours ago) and read 8747 times:
AIRLINERS.NET CREW
DATABASE EDITOR




Quoting Skibum9 (Reply 21):
XJRamper I think you underestimate how ticked off the consumer is with the prices in Cincinnati and how many do not share your opinion.

Living in the CVG area, and witnessing things first hand, I agree with Skibum. An ever-increasing number of people and companies are becoming extremely ticked off with CVG/DL prices, and are going out of their way to utilize alternative airports. In addition, they (and the local media) are being very vocal about it.

Hopefully, the trend will continue, demand at CVG will decrease, and prices will follow suit....


2H4





Intentionally Left Blank
User currently offlineSkibum9 From United States of America, joined Nov 2001, 1229 posts, RR: 0
Reply 23, posted (7 years 5 months 4 weeks 2 hours ago) and read 8629 times:

Quoting 2H4 (Reply 22):
Living in the CVG area,


2H4. I hope that isn't one of Hal's (Sporty's) 172s that you have your feet up on the panel, as pictured in your profile! You know how anal he can be about things!



Tailwinds!!!
User currently offlineKELPkid From United States of America, joined Nov 2005, 6370 posts, RR: 3
Reply 24, posted (7 years 5 months 4 weeks 2 hours ago) and read 8372 times:

Quoting Skibum9 (Reply 23):
2H4. I hope that isn't one of Hal's (Sporty's) 172s that you have your feet up on the panel, as pictured in your profile! You know how anal he can be about things!

When was the last time you saw Hal Shevers poking around the airliners.net forums?  Wink



Celebrating the birth of KELPkidJR on August 5, 2009 :-)
25 Cairo : Buy into legacy propaganda much? Total stops on DL, CMH-JAX = 1 Total stops on WN, CMH-JAX = 1 Total stops on most WN transcons (east coast to west c
26 DeltaDAWG : This CVG news is great news! For Dayton!
27 KevinSmith : LOL you got me with the thread title. I was thinking what the $#^#$% is CVG #1 for?
28 Skibum9 : Good point, with the way he likes to control everything he is too busy driving around the ramp and taxiways on his four wheeler at I69 making sure th
29 EVA777SEA : NW doesn't operate SFO-IND nonstop, or at least not in the winter. They might get service in the summer like SEA does.
30 XJRamper : I wasnt talking about number of stops. I was giving a price comparison from similar markets. I have seen multiple times on WN's website where there h
31 Indy : SFO returns May 2nd. It looks to be permanent as NW has it available online through at least 12/31/07.
32 ConcordeBoy : ...nor "this" hub Here's the thing with that: competitor and/or LoCo tries to enter CVG; [insert mainline carrier name here] throws 767s on domestic
33 LAXspotter : an i was just about to fly in to CVG from LA, prices are insane. I guess i'll have to fly into dayton, but i'll skip Delta.
34 Logos : I get that, but it's not like WN hasn't taken on hubs (like DTW & PHL) before and been profitable at the end of the above mentioned process. I would
35 Post contains images KELPkid : That begs for me to tell the story, of my boss when I worked at an FBO...(his name, ironically enough, was Hal as well...). After many people started
36 Steeler83 : What the Pittsburgh Steelers ranked in 2006 in that regard... Yeah, definitely NOT something to be proud of... When I saw this thread, I thought it m
37 Post contains links Skibum9 : That is the point. That arrogant attitude is starting not to fly anymore. Businesses, the media, and the citizens are starting not to care that it is
38 WorldTraveler : If CVG had a LFC competitor, DL coudn't make CVG work financially. It is too small of a market to sustain a large hub (which is the DOT category CVG i
39 Steeler83 : So DL is trying to keep the LCCs out of CVG because of their smaller hub size there. Isn't CO at CLE smaller than DL at CVG? CLE has about 225 CO fli
40 Skibum9 : CVG is comparable in size, as determined by MSA population, to CLE, and is larger than CLT, MEM and SLC. All those large hubs have LCCs and do not go
41 ConcordeBoy : ...corroborate this statement please. Yes, great examples: the former is heavily subsidized and not likely to last much longer, the middle is a niche
42 Post contains images SQ452 : I do it all the time. I was doing it quite a bit when i went to school in Boston. If you live in the north of cincinnati, Dayton isn't really much fu
43 DAYflyer : Whats so high about them? Why is this? True. In regards to the parking, use the long term lot for $4 a day and catch the shuttle. It takes you direct
44 Post contains images Gregarious119 : Where are you getting this info from, DAYflyer? I want to see it! Not because I doubt you...but I want to know more! Do you have any idea what airlin
45 Travelin man : Most expensive: 1. CVG -- No WN service 2. SFO -- No WN service 3. IAD -- WN service recently begun 4. DFW -- No WN service 5. EWR -- No WN service I
46 DAYflyer : There was a recent interview with the airport manager in the Dayton Daily News last week. You may be able to find it in the archives.
47 XJRamper : Or how about other LCC service. It isn't just WN. There are plenty of airports that haven't been infected by WN, and still are much cheaper. I guess
48 Broke : My latest experience with airline fares shows how a dominant carrier in one major airport can charge high fares. In late January I flew round trip SDF
49 Travelin man : How does this coincide with the fact that the most expensive cities are places with limited or no LCC presence? Yes, the legacies will MATCH LCC pric
50 XJRamper : I didn't say that. I said that cities that aren't infested with WN still are cheaper, not lacking LCC's. And then I made the point that people give L
51 FWAERJ : WN will be restarting SFO service later this year...
52 Post contains links SeeTheWorld : First of all, Mr. Coolidge used the information for the DOT incorrectly, although he is correct in stating that CVG is the most expensive airport. Ju
53 Steeler83 : San Francisco and Dallas DO have WN service, via OAK and Love Field respectively. The WA is slowly disappearing so service from DAL should go up... a
54 AirCop : Personally, I was surprised that SFO was #2 with all the competition there, must be the regional service that drives up the overall fares. I knew that
55 Travelin man : Again, no WN cities. The article refered to airports, not markets. No doubt there are cheap alternatives in the Bay Area, just not at SFO (apparently
56 XJRamper : Lol. Then what do you call a market?? DFW and DCA have WN service. XJR
57 Steeler83 : Yeah, didn't WN announce SFO service, despite already having a decent sized ops at OAK? Didn't I see a thread on that on here? I will have to take a
58 SESGDL : Since when? WN serves BWI and IAD in the D.C. Area, and DAL in Dallas/Ft. Worth, but that doesn't mean that they serve DFW and DCA. Are you confusing
59 XJRamper : Am I confusing it with NW??? Are you serious? HAHAHAHA I think I would know what NW is, considering I worked for them a while back. If you look at WN
60 Alitalia744 : Skibum9 - interesting to know. Hadn't realized the PG contract was voided during BK. My clients continue to fly Delta when they come out to NYC for m
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