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Hainan Airlines To Fly To Geneva Via Budapest  
User currently offlinePipoA380 From Switzerland, joined May 2005, 1594 posts, RR: 51
Posted (7 years 4 months 3 weeks 6 days 6 hours ago) and read 4201 times:
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Can't find any link right now, but I heard on the radio this morning that Hainan Airlines will start a 2x weekly flight to Geneva via Budapest. Equipment will probably be B767-300ER.

I hope to find some more info soon! Only thing is found on www.dpts.org/news.html

Hainan Airlines (HU)
Has good chances to launch flights from Beijing to Geneva via Budapest this summer. The last negociation round between swiss political and economical lobbies and the chinese airline proved succesful. The airline has however not yet requested slots at Geneva airport, but a press conference is being held during the evening of February 27th.


It's not about AIRBUS. it's not about BOEING. It's all about the beauty of FLYING.
14 replies: All unread, jump to last
 
User currently offlineMD11A340 From China, joined Jan 2007, 24 posts, RR: 0
Reply 1, posted (7 years 4 months 3 weeks 6 days 5 hours ago) and read 4130 times:

I got this confirmation from my colleague few minuets ago. But will have 3x weekly. They are going to have a press conference today with Geneva airport.
So, there will be 3 flights between China and Switzerland as of next year instead of none for the past 4 years:

LX
ZRH-PEK?
ZRH-PVG?

HU
GVA-PEK

I do really doubt the over capacity if everything comes true...

[Edited 2007-02-28 10:33:16]

User currently offlineKevin777 From Denmark, joined Sep 2006, 1165 posts, RR: 1
Reply 2, posted (7 years 4 months 3 weeks 6 days 5 hours ago) and read 4123 times:

Why via BUD? Seems odd, the 763 should be able to do the whole thing non-stop. Can't see the economic benefit of stopping in BUD - maybe some political reasons (for old times sake??..).

Would they get 5th freedom on BUD-GVA? Doubtful. Even if they did that would hardly attract anything but total low-yields..

Well, good luck with it, but can't help wondering..:!

Kevin777  Smile



"I was waiting for you at DFW, but you must have been in LUV" CPH-HAM-CPH CR9
User currently offlineMD11A340 From China, joined Jan 2007, 24 posts, RR: 0
Reply 3, posted (7 years 4 months 3 weeks 6 days 4 hours ago) and read 4107 times:

Quoting Kevin777 (Reply 2):
Why via BUD?

Maybe because of short of equipments. BUD is the first none-asian destination HU fly to, and have feeding/defeeding agreement with Malev. Rumors that they are looking for more 767 or even T7


User currently offlineKevin777 From Denmark, joined Sep 2006, 1165 posts, RR: 1
Reply 4, posted (7 years 4 months 3 weeks 6 days 4 hours ago) and read 4082 times:

Quoting MD11A340 (Reply 3):
Quoting Kevin777 (Reply 2):
Why via BUD?

Maybe because of short of equipments. BUD is the first none-asian destination HU fly to, and have feeding/defeeding agreement with Malev. Rumors that they are looking for more 767 or even T7

Okay, didn't know they had deals with MA - but still, why then continue to GVA (espec with all the competition from LX)?



"I was waiting for you at DFW, but you must have been in LUV" CPH-HAM-CPH CR9
User currently offlinePEET7G From Hungary, joined Jan 2007, 695 posts, RR: 0
Reply 5, posted (7 years 4 months 3 weeks 6 days 4 hours ago) and read 4054 times:

Quoting Kevin777 (Reply 4):
Okay, didn't know they had deals with MA - but still, why then continue to GVA (espec with all the competition from LX)?

MD11A340 Could very well be correct. Equipment shortige might be one of the reasons, and since they are already flying into BUD, and that 767 lies around some 9 hours at BUD it is a logical step to use that 767 to extend operations into GVA. After all planes make money in the air. Well, this is my guess.



Peet7G
User currently offlinePipoA380 From Switzerland, joined May 2005, 1594 posts, RR: 51
Reply 6, posted (7 years 4 months 3 weeks 6 days 4 hours ago) and read 4038 times:
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Quoting MD11A340 (Reply 1):
But will have 3x weekly

Yes sorry, I mistyped, I heard it on the radio while waking up. Was still somewhat sleeping I guess

Quoting Kevin777 (Reply 4):
why then continue to GVA (espec with all the competition from LX)?

Competition by LX is non-existant. There's no direct flights to Switzerland from China! China and Geneva are working a lot together, and a lot of chinese companies get to GVA, and of lot of Swiss companies get to PEK. The potential is big, and as I understood, there are plans to make it a direct flight. I'm a happy spotter now

[Edited 2007-02-28 11:28:05]


It's not about AIRBUS. it's not about BOEING. It's all about the beauty of FLYING.
User currently offlineMD11A340 From China, joined Jan 2007, 24 posts, RR: 0
Reply 7, posted (7 years 4 months 3 weeks 6 days 4 hours ago) and read 4029 times:

Quoting Kevin777 (Reply 4):
why then continue to GVA

They actually had the first meeting with LX in end of 2004 re PEK-ZRH route and promised to open it in summer 2005, but did not able to do it due to
1. they only get the traffic right from CA in late 2005
2. code share and feeding/defeeding agreement veto by LH
3. more attractive package from BRU

so, they finally choose BRU as the 2nd destination in Europe ( average load factor 70% +)
As I heard, they never give up Switzerland and GVA tried very hard to convince one of the Chinese carrier to GVA.

Quoting Kevin777 (Reply 4):
espec with all the competition from LX)?

LX still not yet resume their China flight.
Less competition than to ZRH


User currently offlineKevin777 From Denmark, joined Sep 2006, 1165 posts, RR: 1
Reply 8, posted (7 years 4 months 3 weeks 6 days 4 hours ago) and read 4029 times:

Quoting PEET7G (Reply 5):
and that 767 lies around some 9 hours at BUD it is a logical step to use that 767 to extend operations into GVA. After all planes make money in the air. Well, this is my guess.

Seems reasonable - but still, planes don't necessarily make money while in the air. TG has the same issue with their European flights, that all do nothing on European tarmacs all day. Same for BA in Australia and QF in London. SK discontinued their BKK-SIN leg because it was cheaper (less economically wasteful) to park the 343 on the BKK tarmac for 10 hours than flying it to SIN and back with poor yields and low loads.

So, the idle time could be a factor for HU - but many times this is not sufficient reason to get a plane airborne..

Kevin777



"I was waiting for you at DFW, but you must have been in LUV" CPH-HAM-CPH CR9
User currently offlineMD11A340 From China, joined Jan 2007, 24 posts, RR: 0
Reply 9, posted (7 years 4 months 3 weeks 6 days 4 hours ago) and read 3999 times:

Quoting PEET7G (Reply 5):
MD11A340 Could very well be correct. Equipment shortige might be one of the reasons, and since they are already flying into BUD, and that 767 lies around some 9 hours at BUD it is a logical step to use that 767 to extend operations into GVA. After all planes make money in the air. Well, this is my guess.

They should already have done it when they opened BRU,but they didn't. An extend service not always meaning profit at all especially there is no 5th traffic right. I would guess that HU is in hurry to step into CH before LX's resume the flight.

[Edited 2007-02-28 11:34:14]

User currently offlinePEET7G From Hungary, joined Jan 2007, 695 posts, RR: 0
Reply 10, posted (7 years 4 months 3 weeks 6 days 4 hours ago) and read 3996 times:

Quoting Kevin777 (Reply 8):
Seems reasonable - but still, planes don't necessarily make money while in the air. TG has the same issue with their European flights, that all do nothing on European tarmacs all day. Same for BA in Australia and QF in London. SK discontinued their BKK-SIN leg because it was cheaper (less economically wasteful) to park the 343 on the BKK tarmac for 10 hours than flying it to SIN and back with poor yields and low loads.

So, the idle time could be a factor for HU - but many times this is not sufficient reason to get a plane airborne..

Yes, but what I meant was that it looks like they increase the schedule to BUD from 2x to 3X a week and combine the GVA and BUD runs... thus:
-maxing out the usige of the 767 being sent to BUD
-adding a new destination to their network (GVA)
-adding schedule options to their customers in both BUD and GVA
-and all this without tieing down more equipment.

This way it seems a logical step to me  Smile



Peet7G
User currently offlineHB-IWC From Greece, joined Sep 2000, 4496 posts, RR: 72
Reply 11, posted (7 years 4 months 3 weeks 6 days 3 hours ago) and read 3958 times:

Quoting MD11A340 (Reply 9):
An extend service not always meaning profit at all especially there is no 5th traffic right.

The costs incurred by a tag on to a longhaul flight are very seldom offset by the presence of fifth freedom rights. Crew changes and other costs pertaining to increased use of crew resources, as well as all costs related to the operation of two additional cycles are huge, and are only worth undertaking if the station at the end of the tag (in this case GVA) can contribute significantly to the entire flight's bottom line. If HU were to decide to extend the current BUD route to GVA then it will do so because it believes that GVA can produce a significant surplus for the entire GVA BUD PEK route, not just because of the 5th freedom rights which the airline may or may not receive.

As for LX, I believe a decision on a potential return to China is very much in the hands of LH. LH itself has been steadily expanding its flight offerings between Germany and China, will fly 3 times daily to Shanghai and 2 times daily to Beijing next summer, in addition to 5 weekly terminators to Canton and all the CA operated flights. That said, both OS and SK - both of them LH partners - have been reducing their China offerings, because of alleged losses incurred on the routes. The real question is what was the influence of LH in these service reductions at SK and OS. If LH wants to attract all the China traffic through its own hubs and flights, it may well prevent LX from restarting China ops.


User currently offlineAirtropolis From Singapore, joined Apr 2000, 142 posts, RR: 0
Reply 12, posted (7 years 4 months 3 weeks 5 days 22 hours ago) and read 3813 times:

IIRC:
George Soros = Major investor in Hainan Airlines = Ethnic Hungarian = Geneva via Budapest


User currently offlineRunway23 From US Minor Outlying Islands, joined Jan 2005, 2180 posts, RR: 36
Reply 13, posted (7 years 4 months 3 weeks 5 days 20 hours ago) and read 3738 times:

Quoting Kevin777 (Reply 2):
Why via BUD? Seems odd, the 763 should be able to do the whole thing non-stop. Can't see the economic benefit of stopping in BUD - maybe some political reasons (for old times sake??..).

I doubt there are political reasons behind this. Last year, there were 120000 Chinese visitors in Switzerland, of which Geneva was the most visited city. Add, the diplomatic ties and other businesses and you get a healthy mix of both business and leisure.

I wonder if a Chinese delegate would really take a European airline (eg. LX) if a flight was available to Switzerland instead of favouring the service of a Chinese airline.

The tag on can be profitable for Hainan if they are willing to take on the short term costs of such an operation in view of building up their operation in Geneva and in the medium-term (when they get new aircraft), separating Geneva from Budapest. I see their move as cautious and prudent as opposed to the current expansion plans we see by other Chinese companies in general right now, which isn't a bad thing.


User currently offlineFiatstilojtd From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 14, posted (7 years 4 months 3 weeks 5 days 20 hours ago) and read 3719 times:

Quoting Airtropolis (Reply 12):
IIRC:
George Soros = Major investor in Hainan Airlines = Ethnic Hungarian

Hi Airtropolis,

yes, thats correct...


fiatstilojtd


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