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CI 744 Touch And Go With Wheel Touches The Ground  
User currently offlineJimyvr From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Posted (7 years 7 months 5 days 12 hours ago) and read 11829 times:

A China Airlines with nearly 400 on board landed in Taipei on 24FEB07 performed touch and go with wheels touching the ground first.

China Airlines admit such incident occurred on rare basis.

According to the passengers, the main landing gear touched the runway during landing but suddenly the pilot pulled the nose up sharply for go-around.

Co-pilot, with flying experience of 72hours, was operating the plane during landing.

The co-pilot in the PA says due to traffic control issues, the plane had to go around. The plane was about 20-30ft altitude when the nose of the plane sharply turned upward position, wheels bumped to the land, but the rear fuselage didn't touch the runway.

Picture from Taiwan's Appledaily



40 replies: All unread, showing first 25:
 
User currently offlineSEAdomer787 From United States of America, joined Jul 2006, 115 posts, RR: 1
Reply 1, posted (7 years 7 months 5 days 11 hours ago) and read 11820 times:

is there something i'm missing here that warrants the severity of that graphic? how much force did the 747 hit the ground with? or is it just media hype at it again?

User currently offlineNorcal773 From United States of America, joined Feb 2007, 1447 posts, RR: 12
Reply 2, posted (7 years 7 months 5 days 11 hours ago) and read 11810 times:

Quoting Jimyvr (Thread starter):
but the rear fuselage didn't touch the runway.

The fuselage is not supposed to touch the ground at any one point. This story doesn't make a lot of sense.



If you're going through hell, keep going
User currently offlineSkibum9 From United States of America, joined Nov 2001, 1229 posts, RR: 0
Reply 3, posted (7 years 7 months 5 days 11 hours ago) and read 11803 times:

Quoting Jimyvr (Thread starter):
According to the passengers, the main landing gear touched the runway during landing but suddenly the pilot pulled the nose up sharply for go-around.

I am not getting the point here. Planes do go-arounds all the time and is something the is very routine. So what is the big deal. Would you rather have the plane continue the landing and crash into whatever may be on the runway?

Quoting Jimyvr (Thread starter):
Co-pilot, with flying experience of 72hours, was operating the plane during landing.

There is no way that this is correct. A co-pilot of a 744 with only 72 hours total flying time. He wouldn't even have completed his instrument rating at this point. This has to be a misprint! Maybe is should be 72 hours on type.



Tailwinds!!!
User currently offlineLTU932 From Germany, joined Jan 2006, 13864 posts, RR: 50
Reply 4, posted (7 years 7 months 5 days 11 hours ago) and read 11796 times:

Quoting Norcal773 (Reply 2):
The fuselage is not supposed to touch the ground at any one point. This story doesn't make a lot of sense.

Perhaps it's a translation error.


User currently offline2H4 From United States of America, joined Oct 2004, 8955 posts, RR: 60
Reply 5, posted (7 years 7 months 5 days 11 hours ago) and read 11783 times:
AIRLINERS.NET CREW
DATABASE EDITOR




Quoting Jimyvr (Thread starter):
performed touch and go with wheels touching the ground first.

I don't know about the rest of you, but this is without question my favorite method of performing a touch-and-go. I much prefer the wheels to touch the ground first.  yes 


2H4





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User currently offlineKELPkid From United States of America, joined Nov 2005, 6397 posts, RR: 3
Reply 6, posted (7 years 7 months 5 days 11 hours ago) and read 11737 times:

Quoting 2H4 (Reply 5):
I don't know about the rest of you, but this is without question my favorite method of performing a touch-and-go. I much prefer the wheels to touch the ground first.


2H4

And I much prefer that the mains touch down before the nosegear...the airframe likes that sooo much more  Wink Nothing in what's been said so far seems to indicate it happened the other way...

BTW I doubt the first officer's total time was 72 hours. That is hopefully time in type...



Celebrating the birth of KELPkidJR on August 5, 2009 :-)
User currently offlineMDorBust From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 7, posted (7 years 7 months 5 days 11 hours ago) and read 11734 times:

Quoting Jimyvr (Thread starter):
A China Airlines with nearly 400 on board landed in Taipei on 24FEB07 performed touch and go with wheels touching the ground first.

China Airlines admit such incident occurred on rare basis.

Future incidents can be prevented by not lowering the landing gear.


User currently offline2H4 From United States of America, joined Oct 2004, 8955 posts, RR: 60
Reply 8, posted (7 years 7 months 5 days 11 hours ago) and read 11692 times:
AIRLINERS.NET CREW
DATABASE EDITOR




Quoting MDorBust (Reply 7):
Future incidents can be prevented by not lowering the landing gear.

Oh, just give them some time....  Sad




Quoting KELPkid (Reply 6):
And I much prefer that the mains touch down before the nosegear

You'd never make it as an RAAF pilot....


View Large View Medium
Click here for bigger photo!

Photo © Matthew Vaughan




 Wink

2H4





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User currently offlineOPNLguy From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 9, posted (7 years 7 months 5 days 11 hours ago) and read 11649 times:

Quoting Jimyvr (Thread starter):
but the rear fuselage didn't touch the runway.

I should hope not--that's called a "tail strike"....

Gotta love the "sparks" from the tires in the illustration....  Yeah sure

[Edited 2007-03-01 02:14:42]

User currently offline2H4 From United States of America, joined Oct 2004, 8955 posts, RR: 60
Reply 10, posted (7 years 7 months 5 days 11 hours ago) and read 11617 times:
AIRLINERS.NET CREW
DATABASE EDITOR




Quoting OPNLguy (Reply 9):
Gotta love the "sparks" from the tires in the illustration....

Seems to be standard symbology for Chinese accident reports:



...straight from an accident report on the crash of CI 676 in 1998....


2H4





Intentionally Left Blank
User currently offlineOPNLguy From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 11, posted (7 years 7 months 5 days 11 hours ago) and read 11591 times:

Quoting 2H4 (Reply 10):

Seems to be standard symbology for Chinese accident reports:



Quoting 2H4 (Reply 10):


...straight from an accident report on the crash of CI 676 in 1998....

It's been said that a picture is worth 1000 words, but with the exchange rate and all, I guess a picture is worth a couple of million characters....  Wink


User currently offlineLexy From United States of America, joined Jun 2006, 2515 posts, RR: 8
Reply 12, posted (7 years 7 months 5 days 10 hours ago) and read 11529 times:

Quoting KELPkid (Reply 6):
I don't know about the rest of you, but this is without question my favorite method of performing a touch-and-go. I much prefer the wheels to touch the ground first.

I was thinking the same thing. LOL!!



Nashville, Tennessee KBNA
User currently offlineSanjet From Canada, joined Mar 2005, 180 posts, RR: 0
Reply 13, posted (7 years 7 months 5 days 9 hours ago) and read 11394 times:

I hope the NTSB was notified. Another case of media hype.


Will Fly For Food!
User currently offlineKaitak From Ireland, joined Aug 1999, 12480 posts, RR: 34
Reply 14, posted (7 years 7 months 5 days 9 hours ago) and read 11287 times:

I think this would be investigated by the Taiwan CAA; the NTSB would only become involved if there were an actual accident. I think this is just bad terminology; they wrote "touch and go" when they actually meant go-around.

When I first looked at the title, I wondered if they had tried a touch and go with the gear up, but this situation - touching down during a go around does not seem to be a major problem; it can happen and it's not necessarily wrong when it does, as long as they reconfigure the aircraft (spoilers cancelled, flaps to 20) before takeoff.


User currently offlineBlatantEcho From United States of America, joined Sep 2000, 1913 posts, RR: 1
Reply 15, posted (7 years 7 months 5 days 8 hours ago) and read 11212 times:

that's a great graphic, haha


They're not handing trophies out today
User currently offlineCloudyapple From Hong Kong, joined Jul 2005, 2454 posts, RR: 10
Reply 16, posted (7 years 7 months 5 days 8 hours ago) and read 11182 times:

Quoting Jimyvr (Thread starter):
touch and go with wheels touching the ground first.

What do you think the "touch" part of "touch and go" is supposed to mean? Sounds like a normal go-around.

Quoting Jimyvr (Thread starter):
According to the passengers, the main landing gear touched the runway during landing

Are the wheels inside the plane? Or are the passengers dangling outside to be able to see the wheels? Trust nothing other than the FDR.

Quoting SEAdomer787 (Reply 1):
is there something i'm missing here that warrants the severity of that graphic? how much force did the 747 hit the ground with? or is it just media hype at it again?

Apple Daily is like News of the World or worse. It's a unique breed of broadsheet tabloids we have in the Chinese world. Half fact and half fiction all the time. I don't trust any damn thing they report.

Quoting Skibum9 (Reply 3):
72 hours total flying time

72 hr on type?

Non-news.



A310/A319/20/21/A332/3/A343/6/A388/B732/5/7/8/B742/S/4/B752/B763/B772/3/W/E145/J41/MD11/83/90
User currently offlineJimyvr From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 17, posted (7 years 7 months 5 days 7 hours ago) and read 11044 times:

Quoting Cloudyapple (Reply 16):
Sounds like a normal go-around.

But don't you have certain altitude to do that? You don't have wheels bumped into the ground and take off right away.


User currently offlineCloudyapple From Hong Kong, joined Jul 2005, 2454 posts, RR: 10
Reply 18, posted (7 years 7 months 5 days 6 hours ago) and read 10963 times:

Quoting Jimyvr (Reply 17):
But don't you have certain altitude to do that?

Entirely legitimate to come into contact with the concrete before TOGA thrust is applied, anything to avoid a crash.



A310/A319/20/21/A332/3/A343/6/A388/B732/5/7/8/B742/S/4/B752/B763/B772/3/W/E145/J41/MD11/83/90
User currently offlineAndrewtang From United Kingdom, joined Jun 2001, 461 posts, RR: 10
Reply 19, posted (7 years 7 months 5 days 5 hours ago) and read 10928 times:

A normal go-around WILL not involve any gears touching contact with the ground. Unless it's crew training whereby a touch and go was conducted. Then it's different.

Either way they should have decided whether to land or go around by decision height. If traffic has not cleared by then they should have gone-around before that. Not waiting till really finals at 20-30ft before they execute the Go around. It may also be ATC's fault there but then the pilots have their discretion whether it is deemed safe to continue the app or not.

Few years ago, a China airlines A300 did the same thing in Japan but crashed.


User currently offlineKELPkid From United States of America, joined Nov 2005, 6397 posts, RR: 3
Reply 20, posted (7 years 7 months 5 days 5 hours ago) and read 10928 times:

Quoting 2H4 (Reply 8):
You'd never make it as an RAAF pilot....

You're right  Wink I think between landing nosewheel first and having to rappel facing the ground ("Aussie Style"), I'd wash out of their officer training within a week...



Celebrating the birth of KELPkidJR on August 5, 2009 :-)
User currently offlineJimyvr From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 21, posted (7 years 7 months 4 days 19 hours ago) and read 10533 times:

Quoting Cloudyapple (Reply 16):
72 hr on type?

72hours on 747-400. Total flying time was 5322hrs

This time is a foreign pilot who was flying for China Airlines recently.

China Airlines claims the degree of angle was greater than average, led to the decision of go-around within seconds.

Of course, it is pretty much the media hype.

[Edited 2007-03-01 17:37:06]

User currently offlineAirTran717 From United States of America, joined Aug 2006, 746 posts, RR: 4
Reply 22, posted (7 years 7 months 4 days 19 hours ago) and read 10402 times:

Quoting Sanjet (Reply 13):
I hope the NTSB was notified. Another case of media hype.

This happened in Taipei. The NTSB won't be notified unless it happened on US soil. Thus the NATIONAL Transportation Safety Board... Not ITSB for INTERNATIONAL... Not trying to be a smartass here. But you should have thought about that comment first.

717


User currently offlineAirTran717 From United States of America, joined Aug 2006, 746 posts, RR: 4
Reply 23, posted (7 years 7 months 4 days 19 hours ago) and read 10312 times:

And for the record... someone needs to clarify the terminology. If the wheels touch the ground and they immediately use TOGA for the go around... is it not a touch and go AND a go around? LOL I suspect that even though the passengers were not hanging outside the airplane, even the dimmest of people can feel it in the seat of their pants when an aircraft's wheels touch the ground.

717


User currently offlineAzjubilee From United States of America, joined Apr 2000, 3941 posts, RR: 28
Reply 24, posted (7 years 7 months 4 days 19 hours ago) and read 9802 times:

It sounds like what happened, was not a go around, but a balked landing. Depending on when the action to reject the landing took place has a lot to do with it. Due to the spool up time on a jet engine and the momentum from the approach to landing, it is not uncommon for the wheels to touch on a balked landing.

More media hype over something that isn't worthy of media hype. Slow news day in Taipei I guess. Don't they have government officials slapping each other to cover instead?



AZJ


25 Baron52ta : In my experience the gear horn would sream long before you hit gear up, I know I tried it, not a 744 though just a PA23 Apache with a broken lever.
26 Post contains images Trex8 : the Nagoya accident occurred because they had unknowingly selected TOGA and didn't know it and the pilots were essentially fighting the flight contro
27 BoeingFixer : Directly from the B744 FCTM (Flight Crew Training Manual) concerning Go-Arounds: ---------------------------------------------------------------------
28 APFPilot1985 : The NTSB often also lends their help in investigating other accidents that occur outside of the US for multiple reasons a)US airline involved b)US Bu
29 Post contains images Jerald01 : I've made hundreds of "touch-and-go" landings. Sometimes two or three on any one approach (before I finally got the darn plane on the ground!)...
30 Bphendri : Wouldn't this not realy be a "Touch and Go" but simply a "Go around where the mains touched down after TOGA was initiated" For the terminology of "Tou
31 SkyexRamper : Yeah, and...what's so new about this concept, because this is what is suppose to happen. I sure hope they mean 72hrs in type or I'm running for a job
32 FlyUSCG : Without knowing the weather, my guess is that he was doing an instrument approach, perhaps CATII or III, hit minimums, no runway in sight and went aro
33 PhilSquares : I suggest you review your statement. A go around from a CATII/CATIII approach will certainly result in main wheel contact with the runway. Your comme
34 727forever : No probable, but certainly possible. I saw above someone else replied that it was in fact 72 hours in type. However, this could become reallity in th
35 747hogg : GROUND ..... PEOPLE, NOT RUNWAY, BUT THE EARTH! SHORT FIELD LANDING GOING BAD.
36 KGAI : For so much shouting you're certainly quite wrong. The main landing gears touched the RUNWAY, which is perfectly normal for go-arounds in big jets. A
37 Celestar : I can't help but to offer my little three cents thoughts. I read through the original report and believe there are some questions that the newspaper r
38 ThrottleHold : On a heavy jet, and most definitely on the 747, it will involve the gear touching the runway if the G/A is commenced from lower than about 150ft. I h
39 TWA1011 : I especially love the picture insert on the graphic of the people in their seats screaming.
40 Lexy : Just for the record, I love CI. They bring me my computer parts here everyday but Tuesdays. Now, carry on. LOL!!!! The people screaming insert is almo
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