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Rumor: WN PIT To SFO To Begin 08/07!  
User currently offlinePITSpeedbird From United States of America, joined Mar 2007, 60 posts, RR: 0
Posted (7 years 8 months 4 days 12 hours ago) and read 5710 times:

I have been a fan of airliners.net for about 7-8 years now - and have read the discussions with interest almost every day since. This is my first post so go easy!

I was at PIT last night, and talked to one of the WN employees. I asked if there was any new WN
service expected for PIT in the following year. She told me in addition to BWI which starts 3/11/07 - other service
which has not been officially announced yet includes:

SFO - (!!) - to begin in August 2007,

and - she also mentioned:

CLT - (?) -
which isn't even a Southwest City yet. Does anyone know if WN is planning on expanding service to CLT?

Certainly a PIT - CLT route would be another blow at USAirways. And more good news for a great airport!

The PIT - SFO transcon is certainly a welcome addition.

- PITSpeedbird


you leave. Arrive before
36 replies: All unread, showing first 25:
 
User currently offlineSteeler83 From United States of America, joined Feb 2006, 9239 posts, RR: 21
Reply 1, posted (7 years 8 months 4 days 12 hours ago) and read 5655 times:

Quoting PITSpeedbird (Thread starter):

Wow!!! Now that is interesting, especially CLT service given that it is not a WN city. I wonder if that will be a startup route for CLT service. Oh man. I just figured, good startup cities for CLT (in addition to PIT) would be PHL, BWI, MDW, LAS, PHX, and MCO. Three of those cities are hubs for US. If they are talking about starting service to CLT and one of the first routes going to PIT, that says something. I don't know whether or not that would seriously happen, but now you got me going!

Oh, and welcome aboard to A.net!

Let the games begin!!!



Do not bring stranger girt into your room. The stranger girt is dangerous, it will hurt your life.
User currently offlineBigGSFO From United States of America, joined Jun 2005, 2933 posts, RR: 6
Reply 2, posted (7 years 8 months 4 days 12 hours ago) and read 5614 times:

Welcome to A.net.  Smile

SFO-PIT would be nice, but it does seem a little odd to be one of WN's first destinations on returning to San Francisco. Nonetheless WN is very good at plugging P2P flights in underserved/overpriced markets.


User currently offlinePITSpeedbird From United States of America, joined Mar 2007, 60 posts, RR: 0
Reply 3, posted (7 years 8 months 4 days 12 hours ago) and read 5593 times:

Quoting BigGSFO (Reply 2):
SFO-PIT would be nice, but it does seem a little odd to be one of WN's first destinations on returning to San Francisco.

I agree - the route would be great for decreasing fares between PIT and SFO - I am excited.
However - it's not "would be good," - I talked to 2 emplyees last night, and they both seemed to agree on SFO service being a reality - they only disagreed on the start date - one said December - the other said August.

Now all they need is a Pittsburgh Stillers plane!

- PITSpeedbird



you leave. Arrive before
User currently offlineSteeler83 From United States of America, joined Feb 2006, 9239 posts, RR: 21
Reply 4, posted (7 years 8 months 4 days 11 hours ago) and read 5525 times:

Quoting PITSpeedbird (Reply 3):
Now all they need is a Pittsburgh Stillers plane!

LOL...

Off topic, I am a little irked at them releasing Joey Porter in free agency. That has to be one of the stupidest things the Stillers have done! Anymore stupid maneuvers and the Stillers will have pretty much lost their identity. One of the teams they're talking about him going to is Cleveland. I think that would be one of the LAST cities for him to go to...  hissyfit  hissyfit  hissyfit 

Anyway... I said above. It is interesting for PIT to become a startup city for another market. I would love for this to be a reality!  biggrin 



Do not bring stranger girt into your room. The stranger girt is dangerous, it will hurt your life.
User currently offlineJdwfloyd From United States of America, joined Feb 2005, 837 posts, RR: 4
Reply 5, posted (7 years 8 months 4 days 10 hours ago) and read 5482 times:

It would be nice to see either of those happen, but I just don't see it. The PIT-SFO route doesn't make sense. If there were a market for an additional 130 or so seats between the two UA or US would be running them. If there were more connections on either end of the flight it could work, but both stations are small in comparison to WNs other markets. The flight would have to rely on just OD numbers, and the people are not there for a daily trans-con. I don't see WN using an aircraft up for an entire day just for the handful of people that would use such a route.

As for CLT I don't think that the gate space is there. If I remember correctly FL had a hell of a time securing gate space a year or two ago. If WN could open a few dailies from CLT I doubt they would include PIT right off the bat.


The next directs for WN if PIT gets any would probably include FLL, DAL, HOU, or MCI. I would love to see a PVD or BDL in the mix, but with BWI opening up the can put the people through there.


User currently offlineERJ170 From United States of America, joined Apr 2004, 6778 posts, RR: 17
Reply 6, posted (7 years 8 months 4 days 10 hours ago) and read 5442 times:

I have to agree...

First of all.. CLT.. though I am sure WN will be targeting CLT in the future, the logistics are not there right now. Gate space is unavailable and WN likes to go in with at least 3 gates.. preferably 4. Also with the fact that FL already serves a lot of the markets that WN would be looking to start (BWI, MCO, MDW?), it looks like it may be a farther future than previously thought. But one would never know.

As far as PIT-SFO.. sounds interesting. If it is true, congratulations for PIT. If PIT gets SFO, I would expect the announcement to also include PVD, MHT, PHL, BWI, MCO, TPA, STL, MCI, RDU, and MDW.. (although I wouldn't expect BNA which would really be a shame).. but, again.. one would never know..



Aiming High and going far..
User currently offlinePITSpeedbird From United States of America, joined Mar 2007, 60 posts, RR: 0
Reply 7, posted (7 years 8 months 4 days 9 hours ago) and read 5335 times:

Quoting Jdwfloyd (Reply 5):
The next directs for WN if PIT gets any would probably include FLL, DAL, HOU, or MCI.

Is there really a market for PIT - MCI ?

- PIT SPEEDBIRD



you leave. Arrive before
User currently offlineSteeler83 From United States of America, joined Feb 2006, 9239 posts, RR: 21
Reply 8, posted (7 years 8 months 4 days 9 hours ago) and read 5316 times:

Quoting PITSpeedbird (Reply 7):
Is there really a market for PIT - MCI ?

Apparently with YX on that route with a 717 (being downgraded to a CRJ for some bizarre reason), but I don't think WN will be flying that route anytime soon.

Off topic, to go back to the above statement with YX. Their PIT-MCI flight did very well. Is this downgrade to ONE CRJ temporary until they get more aircraft? Why sacrafice that 717? Are they looking for something more profitable than PIT to fly it on? Really, that PIT-MCI flight, according to flypittsburgh and Midwest Airlines, that flight was very successful.



Do not bring stranger girt into your room. The stranger girt is dangerous, it will hurt your life.
User currently offlineJdwfloyd From United States of America, joined Feb 2005, 837 posts, RR: 4
Reply 9, posted (7 years 8 months 4 days 9 hours ago) and read 5287 times:

I say MCI because of the network WN has set up there. WN serves many west coast and midwest cites from MCI that would tie into the PIT network nicely.

User currently offlineTooluther From United States of America, joined Apr 2006, 305 posts, RR: 1
Reply 10, posted (7 years 8 months 4 days 6 hours ago) and read 5116 times:

Maybe we'd be looking at a PIT-SFO "direct flight" but not a "non-stop"rnone. So MDW is almost a given for the SFO launch, so maybe it'd be arntag on from there.

PIT-CLT seams to be always packed to the gills these days on US, but I always figured that was just connecting traffic etc.


User currently offlineMtnWest1979 From United States of America, joined Nov 2005, 2473 posts, RR: 1
Reply 11, posted (7 years 8 months 4 days 6 hours ago) and read 5073 times:
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Perhaps they misunderstood and just meant any new service period, not from PIT.

Anyway, SFO will have 20 nonstops to OAK, then make connections from there.  Wink



"If it ain't broke, don't fix it!"
User currently offlineVega From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 12, posted (7 years 8 months 4 days 5 hours ago) and read 5021 times:

Quoting Jdwfloyd (Reply 5):
It would be nice to see either of those happen, but I just don't see it. The PIT-SFO route doesn't make sense. If there were a market for an additional 130 or so seats between the two UA or US would be running them.

Here are the latest PIT to SFO Numbers (7-9/2006):
Total Average daily Passengers = 370
US Airways Share = 193 (+- 2) - All Non-Stops
Other Airlines Share = 177 (+-2) - All Connections

That implies that WN has a lot of room to expand (approx. 177 Daily Passengers) to a PIT-SFO non-stop, of course at the expense of other connecting carriers (UA, etc.). Looks to me as though this is a perfectly logical move for WN - although a little risk possibly in the Winter months. The reason US doesn't add more flights is probably because with the current aircraft it uses on this route, it's average load factor is about 73% - leaving room to grow.


User currently offlineJdwfloyd From United States of America, joined Feb 2005, 837 posts, RR: 4
Reply 13, posted (7 years 8 months 4 days 5 hours ago) and read 4968 times:

Why would they run SFO out of PIT when there are some many better options on the east coast as far as yields go. I would think that PIT would come long after PHL, IAD, BWI, PVD, BDL, and their big Florida markets get directs. For that matter there are other west coast cities that would do better than SFO out of PIT for WN. Sending an A/C to OAK or LAX would offer more connection opportunities for WN passengers.

If this were to happen I would like to see UA come in to defend their hub in SFO with a daily 319 to PIT. But once again I don't think the money or passengers are there to warrant tieing up an A/C for 10+ hours each day. Maybe in a few years once WN builds SFO up or US drops their nonstop.


User currently offlineATCT From United States of America, joined Mar 2001, 2317 posts, RR: 38
Reply 14, posted (7 years 8 months 4 days 4 hours ago) and read 4943 times:

Im looking to RSW or HOU as the next city to be served from PIT.

USA3000 and US do well on the PIT-RSW and only CO serves Houston-PIT direct since US has pulled the plug on Pittsburgh.

ATCT



"The way to get started is to quit talking and begin doing." - Walt Disney
User currently offlineVega From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 15, posted (7 years 8 months 4 days 4 hours ago) and read 4930 times:

Quoting Jdwfloyd (Reply 13):
Why would they run SFO out of PIT when there are some many better options on the east coast as far as yields go.....

I don't think anyone is implying that WN would not also start non-stop services to other cities near the same time as to PIT. I think one answer to your ? is competition for a non-stop SFO route. Currently PIT has only 2 non-stop flights to SFO - 1 of which is summer only, whereas PHL, for example has 8 or 9 between US and UA. Further, when WN starts SFO, they surely aren't going to start with just 2 or 3 cities. I really can't see the advantage of SFO-PVD or SFO-BDL over SFO-PIT in your example. PIT has slightly more O&D than BDL and a lot more than PVD.


User currently offlineERJ170 From United States of America, joined Apr 2004, 6778 posts, RR: 17
Reply 16, posted (7 years 8 months 4 days 4 hours ago) and read 4918 times:

Just to play devil's advocate...

I will look at it this way...

PIT already has non-stop flights to SFO, whereas other WN markets have no non-stop flights and therefore WN would have an unserved market to tap from.. so I could possibly see PIT as a lower priority..

PHL, BWI, BNA, MCO, MDW obviously get a higher priority because they are hub-esque for WN.

But I just wanted to throw it out there.. whether or not it happens, only time will tell.. but if it were me, I would look for high O&D destinations without service AND my major connecting spots and start from there.. then look at where there are destinations that already has non-stops with high fares and go there next.. then look at destinations with non-stops that there is enough connecting O&D to completely fill a plane and then try there..

but that might just be my crazy arsed way of thinking....



Aiming High and going far..
User currently offlineSANFan From United States of America, joined Aug 2006, 5477 posts, RR: 12
Reply 17, posted (7 years 8 months 4 days 4 hours ago) and read 4899 times:

Quoting MtnWest1979 (Reply 11):
Perhaps they misunderstood and just meant any new service period, not from PIT.



Quoting Vega (Reply 12):
Looks to me as though this is a perfectly logical move for WN



Quoting Jdwfloyd (Reply 13):
Why would they run SFO out of PIT when there are some many better options on the east coast as far as yields go.

Quite a variety of opinions on this one (so unlike A.net threads...  Wink ) Personally I like #1 best; MtnWest's suggestion makes the most sense.

I agree with you too, Jdw' -- SF to PIT makes no sense. At a newly-opening station, committing one whole precious a/c to a route to a small-medium (Division IV, I believe) station would not be the WN-Way. Vega, I disagree with you by about 180 degrees.

WN has a whole slew of potential destinations they could connect with PIT, including 3 of their existing Top-10 stations (OAK, SAN & LAX.) Only 1, LA, has year-round service on US, OAK has no other PIT service and SAN gets summer only service. SFO is the only other West Coast city that sees year-round PIT n/s on US. I just can't imagine why WN would not connect anything West of PHX and LAS for all this time and then suddenly jump on SF as its first West Coast destination.

I also think CLT is extremely unlikely as a new station this year. I know Gary K. last year said, "No new cities in 2007", and, oooops, here comes SFO. There is absolutely NO WAY that WN would have the equipment to start up 2 pretty good sized stations in the second half of the same year. This is supposed to be a "connect-the-dots" growth period and that's already been screwed up big-time with the addition of one city, let alone opening another one too? No way!

I'd bet a buck that SFO will see the return to the 2 cities that saw service when WN left in 2001, SAN & PHX, plus probably LAS and perhaps MDW. And I think August might be a bit earlier for the start-up than expected. I think Fall was the time frame given. But...

And I would expect CLT will be one of the next new cities invaded by WN but I would suggest 2008 at the earliest.

And welcome to A.net, PITSpeedbird.

bb


User currently offlineLexy From United States of America, joined Jun 2006, 2515 posts, RR: 8
Reply 18, posted (7 years 8 months 4 days 3 hours ago) and read 4858 times:

Quoting ERJ170 (Reply 16):
PHL, BWI, BNA, MCO, MDW obviously get a higher priority because they are hub-esque for WN.

Precisely. These are the markets that get first dibbs on the WN flights because of their "Focus City" status. At least from the beginning, then WN fills in the gaps as time and traffic go along. All of these markets would present good O&D after a little time to PIT and/or CLT.



Nashville, Tennessee KBNA
User currently offlineColeplane From United States of America, joined Jan 2007, 172 posts, RR: 0
Reply 19, posted (7 years 8 months 4 days ago) and read 4492 times:

Quoting PITSpeedbird (Thread starter):
This is my first post so go easy!

Welcome PITSpeedbird.

I guess this means our spotting's not going to be enhanced.  irked 



"About a nine on the tension scale there Rupe."
User currently offlineWard86IND From United States of America, joined Apr 2006, 295 posts, RR: 0
Reply 20, posted (7 years 8 months 4 days ago) and read 4461 times:

Quoting Steeler83 (Reply 4):
Off topic, I am a little irked at them releasing Joey Porter in free agency. That has to be one of the stupidest things the Stillers have done! Anymore stupid maneuvers and the Stillers will have pretty much lost their identity. One of the teams they're talking about him going to is Cleveland. I think that would be one of the LAST cities for him to go to...

As much as I hate to see him go, the Steelers DO know when their linebackers don't have much more left in the tank. Think about all our star linebackers we've released and what they've done in following years...Brown, Kirkland, Lloyd, Greene...goes on and on...they drop off the face of the earth. Someone else will step up; they always do. Porter is mainly just a product of a great system, and next year it will show...and if he goes to Cleveland he will probably have to stop fighting their players...

On topic: Yay for more Pittsburgh WN service!



Live your dream.
User currently offlinePITSpeedbird From United States of America, joined Mar 2007, 60 posts, RR: 0
Reply 21, posted (7 years 8 months 3 days 22 hours ago) and read 4235 times:

Quoting Coleplane (Reply 19):
I guess this means our spotting's not going to be enhanced. irked

I don't get it - Please explain.

- PITSpeedbird



you leave. Arrive before
User currently offlineLuketenley From United States of America, joined Jul 2006, 419 posts, RR: 1
Reply 22, posted (7 years 8 months 3 days 22 hours ago) and read 4156 times:

Well they would have the gate space at PIT. They are remodeling A5 now for the new BWI service. WN will be taking over A5 permenantly now.


Pittsburgh International Airport lover
User currently offlineSJCRRPAX From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 23, posted (7 years 8 months 3 days 22 hours ago) and read 4149 times:

Quoting MtnWest1979 (Reply 11):
Anyway, SFO will have 20 nonstops to OAK,

Are we talking about the BART train? How many non stops to SJC will SFO get?


User currently offlineIowaman From United States of America, joined May 2004, 4424 posts, RR: 6
Reply 24, posted (7 years 8 months 3 days 21 hours ago) and read 4111 times:
AIRLINERS.NET CREW
FORUM MODERATOR

Quoting PITSpeedbird (Thread starter):
SFO - (!!) - to begin in August 2007,

PIT-SFO will never happen anytime in the next few years on WN for several reasons, let alone one of the first cities:

PIT is a small WN station

SFO obviously and wont be in the near future a top 10 WN city

WN has higher O&D markets with no competition to put their planes

This route would tie up a plane a good chunk of the day with most likely mediocre performance

Quoting ATCT (Reply 14):
Im looking to RSW or HOU as the next city to be served from PIT.

 checkmark  Finally someone reasonable here.

Quoting SANFan (Reply 17):
I'd bet a buck that SFO will see the return to the 2 cities that saw service when WN left in 2001, SAN & PHX, plus probably LAS and perhaps MDW.

 checkmark   checkmark 


25 Post contains images Steeler83 : Or possibly become the TO of 07... ok, back to da topic here... DITTO! I actually agree with your thoughts as to why PHL might not be suitable to try
26 Coleplane : Sure. WN means another 737. I simply wish we had a little better variety of airlines and aircraft here in PIT.
27 WN57787 : The only New service that WN has out of PIT is Non Stop service to BWI starting the 11th of March.. one of the Flights will go on to RSW, also the Ear
28 Steeler83 : D'OH!!! So much for that rumor then...
29 PITSpeedbird : Are you sure - I talked to 2 separate WN employees at PIT - and they both said SFO independently!!
30 SJCRRPAX : I could see it happening. I would think it would be something like PHL-PIT-SFO. So, to the PHL people its a one stop, and to the PIT people its non-s
31 Steeler83 : Then again, WN has done things that were unexpected, and things worked out for them... (see also: PHL???)
32 Luketenley : If I run into any WN employees Wednesday at work I will ask them.
33 BN727flyr : Sorry to dash everybody's hopes, but... Sounds to me like the WN employees were speaking about new WN service in general, systemwide. SFO service sho
34 Willbdsp : I'd love to see PIT-LAX on WN. US has one flight in each direction nonstop. The LAX-PIT is a red-eye flight. I don't want to fly OVER Pittsburgh and t
35 Steeler83 : That one frequency goes to two in the summer, with either an A319 or an A320. I think it's going to be another A319 IIRC, as I believe an A320 is tha
36 Luketenley : For this to happen, I think US would have to cut more flights. Maybe go down to 100 daily flights. This would give another airline room to make PIT a
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