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JAL Orders 777's Sells MD11's  
User currently offlinePANAM_DC10 From Australia, joined Aug 2000, 4145 posts, RR: 90
Posted (13 years 9 months 2 weeks 5 days 11 hours ago) and read 1996 times:
AIRLINERS.NET CREW
COMMUNITY MANAGER


04:00 17Nov2000 UPDATE 1-JAL <9201.T> swoops for 10 Boeing planes

(Updates with details throughout)
TOKYO, Nov 17 (Reuters) - Japan Airlines Co Ltd (JAL) said on Friday it would buy 10 Boeing aircraft for an undisclosed sum to replace older models, a move resulting in a 10 billion yen ($91.92 million) cut in annual group costs.
Japan's largest airline said it plans to replace its 10 MD-11 models with two 767-300ERs and eight 777-200ER planes between 2002 and 2004.
The 777-200ER has greater seat capacity and can fly non-stop from Tokyo to the East Coast of the United States or to Europe. Operating costs are similar to the MD-11.
The Boeing 767-300ER will fly medium- and short-range international routes. Its operation costs are lower than the MD-11 due to higher fuel efficiency.
The new aircraft offer up to 400 seats compared with up to 300 in the old model.
Extra capacity and lower fuel costs would generate the cost savings, it said.
JAL's shares received a 1.64 percent lift to 496 yen by 0350 GMT on the Tokyo Stock Exchange, while the benchmark Nikkei stocks average slipped 0.33 percent. The news had little impact on the airline's share price.
((Tokyo Equities Desk +81-3 3432 9404
tokyo.newsroom@reuters.com))
($1=108.79 Yen) [NEWSYEAR 2000]
ENDS


Ask the impossible to achieve the best possible
21 replies: All unread, jump to last
 
User currently offlineSteman From Germany, joined Aug 2000, 1381 posts, RR: 7
Reply 1, posted (13 years 9 months 2 weeks 5 days 10 hours ago) and read 1862 times:

Hi,
here we are another case of major airlines shifting to the B777 to replace MD-11 and/or B747 classic, as recently did Alitalia with the order for 6 B777-200ER and the option for 6 B777-300ER.
Anyway, I'd love to see JAL B777s in Rome even if the 744 are cooler.

Ciao

Stefano


User currently offlineLN-MOW From United States of America, joined Jan 2000, 1908 posts, RR: 14
Reply 2, posted (13 years 9 months 2 weeks 5 days 8 hours ago) and read 1829 times:

Aha .. thet's where UPS' MD11-fleet will come from ...
Boeing seems to agressivly purchase MD11's for conversion to freighters.



- I am LN-MOW, and I approve this message.
User currently offlineBoeing727 From United States of America, joined May 1999, 954 posts, RR: 0
Reply 3, posted (13 years 9 months 2 weeks 5 days 7 hours ago) and read 1808 times:

Very good point LN-MOW,
I was thinking the very same when I heard the JAL decision and was wondering where UPS's MD11s would come from; well, there we go....!!!! At least a part of UPS's future fleet.

Boeing727


User currently offlinePacific From Hong Kong, joined Mar 2000, 1051 posts, RR: 0
Reply 4, posted (13 years 9 months 2 weeks 5 days 4 hours ago) and read 1779 times:

JAL's cattle class is extremely uncomfortable and now, fitting 400 people in a 772 is insane! JAL has poor legroom and uncomfortable seats!
Have they got rid of their horrible DC10's yet? The interior was very yellow from extreme old age!

Pacific


User currently offlineAhlfors From Canada, joined Oct 2000, 1347 posts, RR: 5
Reply 5, posted (13 years 9 months 2 weeks 5 days 4 hours ago) and read 1776 times:

Well, BA sticks 383 seats in some of their Caribbean 777s, so 400 isn't that bad. All it means is a 3-4-3 arrangement.

User currently offlineJaysit From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 6, posted (13 years 9 months 2 weeks 5 days 4 hours ago) and read 1759 times:

I think the "up to 400" seats is more of an editorial comment about the theoretical maximum seats the 777 can offer in comparison with the MD-11 (which is absurd because the MD-11 can also be stuffed with 400 seats). Its just another case of the press getting the facts wrong.

Unless JAL is flying its 777-200ERs on highly packed domestic runs (unlikely), they will not have 400 seats.


User currently offlineThe777Man From United States of America, joined Jul 1999, 6558 posts, RR: 55
Reply 7, posted (13 years 9 months 2 weeks 5 days 4 hours ago) and read 1757 times:

This does make a lot of sense for JL and LN-MOW is probably right, this is where some of UPS's MD-11s will come from. But UPS also has options for 30 more MD-11s so there could be more deals like deals. Could KLM be next ? The777Man


Need a Boeing 777 Firing Order....Further to fly....CI, MU, LX and LH 777s
User currently offlineTEDSKI From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 8, posted (13 years 9 months 2 weeks 5 days 3 hours ago) and read 1745 times:

I bet those MD-11s are going to UPS after being converted to freighters by Boeing.

User currently offlineJderden777 From United States of America, joined Jan 2000, 1755 posts, RR: 29
Reply 9, posted (13 years 9 months 2 weeks 5 days 2 hours ago) and read 1718 times:

looks as though DFW will be getting either the 777 or the 744...does anyone know what JAL currently flies into DFW?? last summer i saw both the MD-11 and 744 during a week..i'm kindof confused as to which is the regular visitor...thanks

jderden777



"my soul is in the sky" - shakespeare
User currently offlineRed Panda From Hong Kong, joined Jun 2000, 1521 posts, RR: 0
Reply 10, posted (13 years 9 months 2 weeks 5 days 2 hours ago) and read 1714 times:

It's a sensible move for JAL, I think. 767-300ER has less pax capacity than MD11 while 772ER has more pax capacity than MD11. JAL is using 763ER and 772ER to complement each others on the routes used to be served by MD11. JAL can adjust which a/c should be used for which routes based on seasonal demand. This gives JAL more flexibilty in fleet arrangement.

Regarding the 400 seat arrangement in 772, I think it should not be too crowded for Japanese. [j/k]   actually I quite like the 3-3-3 arrangement on JAL's current 772 and 773. It's way better than 2-5-2 or 3-4-3 arrangement. 2-5-2 arrangement just "stupid". Who is going to sit in the middle seat in the middle column?! At least I won't. Imagine it, no aisle; no windows.

Regards,
R Panda


User currently offlineFanoftristars From United States of America, joined Jul 2000, 1608 posts, RR: 5
Reply 11, posted (13 years 9 months 2 weeks 5 days 2 hours ago) and read 1716 times:

Since when are the operating costs of a 777-200 and an MD-11 similar? Nice Job Reuters. Then the author says later, "Extra capacity and lower fuel costs would generate the cost savings" Let's see, the operating costs are similar, but the plane would generate cost savings. Try again Reuters. Am I being too picky? It seems like this would be easy to report correctly. Maybe the author didn't proof read his/her article to see if it made sense.


"FLY DELTA JETS"
User currently offlinePANAM_DC10 From Australia, joined Aug 2000, 4145 posts, RR: 90
Reply 12, posted (13 years 9 months 2 weeks 5 days 2 hours ago) and read 1712 times:
AIRLINERS.NET CREW
COMMUNITY MANAGER

Fanoftristars,

You're not being too picky, this is a mild case of Reuters reporting a story related to aviation that isn't 100% correct. Some genuinely make me cringe!



Ask the impossible to achieve the best possible
User currently offlineSRA330-223 From Switzerland, joined Oct 1999, 158 posts, RR: 1
Reply 13, posted (13 years 9 months 2 weeks 5 days ago) and read 1693 times:

Just a question ?!

The report of Reuters says that JAL would replace their MD-11 fleet by 777-200ERs that will join the fleet in about two years.
Is it not better, JAL would first replace their pretty old DC-10 fleet before getting rid of the much newer MD-11 fleet ? I believe that JAL will probably first replace the DC-10s that serve charter destinations like Guam, Hong Kong or Saipan and then get rid of the trijets !

Does it make sense to replace much newer aircraft like the MD-11 instead of getting rid of DC-10 that are nearly 20 years old ?


User currently offlineRed Panda From Hong Kong, joined Jun 2000, 1521 posts, RR: 0
Reply 14, posted (13 years 9 months 2 weeks 4 days 23 hours ago) and read 1674 times:

Would there be buyers for old JAL DC-10?

Regards  ,
R Panda


User currently offlineRyu2 From Taiwan, joined Aug 2002, 490 posts, RR: 0
Reply 15, posted (13 years 9 months 2 weeks 4 days 20 hours ago) and read 1650 times:

Do they actually mean the 777-300ER instead? That model can seat close to 400 comfortably.

User currently offlineTrvlr From United States of America, joined Feb 2000, 4430 posts, RR: 21
Reply 16, posted (13 years 9 months 2 weeks 4 days 17 hours ago) and read 1621 times:

LAX will also get the 777, as a few of the NGO flights from there are currently flown by Md-11s.

Aaron G.


User currently offlineAlexinwa From United States of America, joined Sep 2000, 1149 posts, RR: 0
Reply 17, posted (13 years 9 months 2 weeks 4 days 16 hours ago) and read 1611 times:

NRT-DFW is currently serviced with a MD-11, daily.


You mad Bro???
User currently offlineSalsa From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 18, posted (13 years 9 months 2 weeks 4 days 7 hours ago) and read 1559 times:

I am very disappointed about JAL to sell its MD11s.
I know that it is a good decision for their business,
but as a big tri-jet (DC10 & MD11) fan, it is very sad....
Wherever the J-birds (MD11s) are going, I hope they
can enjoy lest of their lives.

For those people who are considering about its "OLD" DC10s,
JAL has already made a contract with a trading company,
NISSHO IWAI Co., to sell all its DC10s. Some of them
retired form JAL already, and rest of them will retire by 2005.
(I read this on Japanese newspapers.)

By the way, please donft say DC10s are OLD!
They are still cute and cool. Arenft they?  

Salsa


User currently offlineSRA330-223 From Switzerland, joined Oct 1999, 158 posts, RR: 1
Reply 19, posted (13 years 9 months 2 weeks 4 days 7 hours ago) and read 1558 times:

If JAL introduces the already ordered B777-300ER they will probably get rid of old Boeing 747 models such as the series -200 still used on routes to Australia, Europe, South America and Asia. The Boeing 747-300s will probably remain a little longer in JALs fleet because they began to refit some of them with a new Economy Class including PTVs !

User currently offlineRaggi From Norway, joined Oct 2000, 998 posts, RR: 1
Reply 20, posted (13 years 9 months 2 weeks 4 days 7 hours ago) and read 1554 times:

Any thoughts on powerplant on the 772ERs ?
will they get PW4000s or GE90s
The eight 773ER they have order will have GE90-115Bs, but will they choose the same engine on the 772ERs as the 773s the currently operate..?
what do you think?
I think they`ll be PW powered.



Stick & Rudder
User currently offlineN949WP From Hong Kong, joined Feb 2000, 1437 posts, RR: 1
Reply 21, posted (13 years 9 months 2 weeks 4 days 4 hours ago) and read 1539 times:

So, it now appears that JAL will be keeping their DC-10 even longer than its descendant the MD-11. But then, with the MD-11 in such high demand as cargo conversions, JAL is probably getting very good resale values on their '11s, so perhaps we shouldn't be that surprised.

I just flew JAL's DC-10 last month, and I am sorry to say that they DO feel old on the inside. The seating is 2-5-2, with no overhead storage bins over the center 5-seat section. The seat is of the old type with the oxygen masks stowed within the seatback (seat pitch is fine, though). Worst of all, the seat cushion have lost all its supportiveness -- I can feel the metal frames of the seat with my behind!!!

JAL's service is as always, friendly and attentive. However, I do feel that the condition of the cabin itself mars the flight experience, and JAL should definitely do something about it if they intend to keep their '10s for several more years.

'949


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